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Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




 jreilly89 wrote:
About time.

MiniWarGaming did a good video on how it affected them when it first came out.



Still makes me think air DJ.

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Question is how this interfaces with having a sale. A lot of online discounters started having "pre-release" sales which went below the previous 20% discount limit.

Also, does this mean they are reducing the discount they give to distributors like Alliance? If not, that just means some vendors may start to go through Alliance instead to avoid some of the headaches they have with GW.

Curious if some stores which abandoned GW like MiniatureMarket.com will start carrying them again?

Personally think this may have been driven by FFG's new limit imposed several months back. Isn't it 15% as well?
   
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SoCal

Marxist artist wrote:
How weird no shopping cart, why would you ban that? What harm does it do apart from convenience?
I don't get it



It's probably a very effective psychological barrier. It reminds me of the huge decreases you'll see in the suicide rate in a city just from constructing an annoying-but-ultimately-navigable barrier on the prettiest bridges in town. Little inconveniences can have quite an effect in aggregate.

   
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Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Welcome to the 21st century, GW.

It's at least a step in the right direction, though it looks like it is still a bear to put up a picture with the item in question - unless GW gets smart enough to put together a "package" of usable pics of their stuff for the vendors to use.

It never ends well 
   
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[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Reason as ever will be to help prevent online stores driving bricks and mortar stores out of business with discounts that they can't match.
If anything isn't backing away from a total ban to a 15% cap a tacit admission that either (a) [something about online retailers, see below] or (b) they don't care about brick'n'mortar stores? I really, really doubt it is (b), especially considering how much organized play type support GW is trying to catch up on.

I think it is definitely also an admission that online retail is the present and will be the future and it can't and won't and shouldn't be restricted to direct sales. If GW really wants to sell via US chains, this is something they would have been pretty well forced to accept.

As to (a) above - this could include a broad field of conclusions, such as online retailers and brick'n'mortar stores aren't aren't actually exactly aligned as competitors or that brick'n'mortar stores competing solely by virtue of product availability aren't ideal venues for GW products, etc, etc. In any case, this could cover a lot of ground.
 silent25 wrote:
to avoid some of the headaches they have with GW.
From what I understand, GW is very easy to deal with as a distributor.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 21:05:44


   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

As long as some companies still do pre-order sales for 25% off or so I'm good. Just going to make shopping that much easier.

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RVA

 Hulksmash wrote:
As long as some companies still do pre-order sales for 25% off or so I'm good.
I don't see this going anywhere, it just makes too much sense for GW, retailers, and customers (considering this is a new era of reasonableness for the historically least reasonable party, i.e., GW).

   
Made in fi
Missionary On A Mission






 Azreal13 wrote:
Just the arbitrary geographic restrictions to go GW....


This will never be removed do to the way GW operates.

If you are a stockist GW gives you free shipping once a week. Due to the free shipping different zones have different prices based on exchange rates.

I don't know if GW offers free shipping to US retailers but if they do that's a huge cost in postage.

GW has a horrible exchange rate and I think it has to do with the free shipping they offer to stockists.

Here is an example using a Tau Stormsurge
€ 120= $128
$ 150= €140,5
£ 90 = €103 or $110

Do to GWs horrible exchange rates the € price is 15% higher than if you bought in £ and the $ price is 26,6% higher than if you bought in £.
A stormsurge from a UK store with 20% discount is £72 which is €82,4 or $88 which is a 31.3% discount in € and a 41,33% discount in $.
New Zeland Stormsurge is 295, £72 is 127 NZ$. So the base price of a Stormsurge is 130% more expensive in Nz....


What all this means is that what would happen is what did happen before, people would buy from UK stores because the prices they get are ALLOT better than they can get in local stores.

So lets say you have a store in the US, GW gives you 45% discount on products. So if you sold for $100 you would make $45 if you sold at GW retail. Now if a UK store can sell with 41.33% discount (20% store discount and 21.33% exchange rate discount) you would have to be able to match that discount if you wanted to be competitive or hope people didn't buy from the UK. Postage isn't much of a factor as most retailers are willing to offer free postage if you buy for allot.

So a person can buy an army from you for $1000 or the exact same thing from the UK for $600. Him buying it from the UK only helps the UK store and his wallet, it pretty much ruins your store if people find out about it and buy from the UK instead of your store.

GW wants to protect physical stores from being shut down by online retailers. Think of it like Amazon, Wallmart or whatever other huge place to buy stuff. How many hundreds of thousands of businesses have gone bankrupt because of them? So in order to protect retailers they have to limit the zone you are allowed to sell in.
Nothing prevents your friend from buying in the UK and posting to you anywhere in the world.

So a successful store offers allot more than just the base product, they offer a place to pay, food, drinks and so on. Problem with this is it requires a large store which often means high rent. Discounts diminish how much money you make and you have to factor in shop lifting, wages, insurances, rent etc etc etc.
Running a store can be very expansive for very little gain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 21:13:21


   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I don't even know where to start with that....

Let's just class it as a refreshingly naive take on global logistics and international business and move on.

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 MadCowCrazy wrote:
GW has a horrible exchange rate and I think it has to do with the free shipping they offer to stockists.

.....

Postage isn't much of a factor as most retailers are willing to offer free postage if you buy for allot.

.....


GW wants to protect physical stores from being shut down by online retailers.

I cut a few lines out of your post to somewhat highlight your logical flaw. GW charges more internationally because of shipping..... except retailers themselves are willing to offer free shipping which means it mustn't be costing the retailers much so unless GW have horrible connections, it's probably not costing them much either.

Lastly your idea that GW wants to protect physical stores is flawed. GW are the ones inflating the wholesale price that prevents physical stores being able to compete with foreign online retailers. So if GW are protecting physical stores, it's only because they are protecting them from a problem that GW themselves created.

If a person sitting in NZ can order a product at retail price from an international store and have it shipped to them cheaper than a NZ retailer can buy the same product wholesale, it indicates GW is simply inflating prices because it can (which it can because it stops independent international retailers selling to NZ).

If GW charged NZ retailers the same wholesale price as the rest of the world, NZ retailers would have prices competitive with the rest of the world.

The problem is GW charges a UK independent $60 wholesale for a box of whatever with a RRP of $100, the same product is sold to a NZ independent for $120 wholesale with an RRP of $200. (Note: I'm not sure what the numbers actually are, but from memory the Oz wholesale is close to the UK retail, so I imagine NZ is even worse)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 21:34:12


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 LunarSol wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
It was to stop their products being sold for less and 'devaluing them' (ie making it more difficult for them to keep prices and revenue artificially high). Lots of manufacturers try to do it. Not legal to set fixed/min prices in the UK, but people get round it in other ways, such as Apple not supplying if you discount, etc.


It's way way more complicated than that. Devaluing is actually a pretty significant problem, because the cost of goods is generally artificially lowered by the supply chain. A lot of things would be significantly more expensive if they weren't able to rely on the large initial sales volume guaranteed by being purchased in bulk by distributors, who are only able to do so do the large customer base provided by individual stores.



As someone who used to head up a huge department at Tesco, take it that I know all this and was giving a potted summary. ;-)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 21:52:39


 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Steelcity

This wouldn't be very surprising at all if people played games other than those made by GW.. As stated previously, most other games you see in a game shop also have similar restrictions to discount on MSRP.

This is only a good thing, IMO, for all retailers (except online only stores but they can burn for all it matters). Even if you don't care about local game stores they do help promote the hobby which you enjoy. Less discount = more profit for them and less chance they go bankrupt. Since we know a lot of warhammer players are addicts and will buy the newest toy regardless of price if all stores sell at equal price.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 22:25:35


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SoCal

My FLGS gives a 20+% discount on everything I want to buy...


   
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Steelcity

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My FLGS gives a 20+% discount on everything I want to buy...


Which is an extremely slim margin, and only done because they have to compete with online only shops. Sure you may pay 5% more (and still buy the same amount of new releases) but they will pay their lease and utilities that much easier.

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SoCal

 Kirasu wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
My FLGS gives a 20+% discount on everything I want to buy...


Which is an extremely slim margin, and only done because they have to compete with online only shops. Sure you may pay 5% more (and still buy the same amount of new releases) but they will pay their lease and utilities that much easier.


It's funny how you misunderstood me like that.




Anyway......even with the discount, many products are too expensive. Add in sales tax, and I'm already paying more than retail minus 15%. Truthfully, I do spend more at the FLGS (where I do most of my shopping) than I would need to at say, Miniature Market on a per-item basis. I support the FLGS, but that support only stretches so far...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 22:37:50


   
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 Kirasu wrote:
only done because they have to compete with online only shops
Competition is the name of the game. A physical shop can offer stuff that an online retailer doesn't but if they don't, or can't make it profitable enough, them's the brakes. Let's not go down this road but so far as it is mostly off topic. The relevant part is, the 15% discount cap can't torpedo a LGS that is already successful. I doubt a higher cap (20-25%) could either. Capping the discount probably has more to do with GW preserving its brand image than anything about brick'n'mortar shops. The protectionist angle is mostly smoke and mirrors. Burt even here: if I can get 20% from a successful LGS and only 15% off from a reliable online retailer then I will buy from the LGS whether or not I play there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/15 22:37:07


   
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Sioux Falls, SD

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
15% discount limit.
15% is better than 0%. Hopefully this allows brick and mortar stores to offer discounts as well.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Hopefully this allows brick and mortar stores to offer discounts as well.
They never couldn't.

   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cool. Now repeal the international embargo.


Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world. Steam game codes are region-locked. This isn't a GW issue.

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 MadCowCrazy wrote:

GW has a horrible exchange rate and I think it has to do with the free shipping they offer to stockists.

It doesn't. It has to do with GW not wanting to have to keep adjusting prices to deal with exchange rate fluctuations, and so they set their exchange rate considerably above the actual rate to compensate.

 
   
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 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world. Steam game codes are region-locked. This isn't a GW issue.


The hell it isn't.

GW are the ones blocking sales across boarders, and it affects more than just Oz. US can't order from UK. UK can't order from Canadia. Canadia is stuck with their nonsense prices when a few miles away things are cheaper.

This isn't just about Australia and it damn-well is a GW issue.

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Made in gb
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Devon, UK

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Cool. Now repeal the international embargo.


Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world.


There's no reasonable explanation beyond "because they can get away with it" for that either.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world. Steam game codes are region-locked. This isn't a GW issue.


The hell it isn't.

GW are the ones blocking sales across boarders, and it affects more than just Oz. US can't order from UK. UK can't order from Canadia. Canadia is stuck with their nonsense prices when a few miles away things are cheaper.

This isn't just about Australia and it damn-well is a GW issue.



The canadia dollar has plumemeted and it is now a lot cheaper up here than in the US

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 01:28:16


lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 
   
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Sioux Falls, SD

Pretty sure UK can't order from Canadia because it isn't a real place...

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Indiana

Well dang, I'm going to be spending even more on GW now that my main impediment - going to the store - is gone.

Oh these first-world problems...
   
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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Pretty sure UK can't order from Canadia because it isn't a real place...
What about the Canadian Gate?? Did Abaddon blow her up, bud?
 Clanan wrote:
Well dang, I'm going to be spending even more on GW now that my main impediment - going to the store - is gone.
You and a lot of people! I wonder if Mr. Rountree has an estimate of the damage caused to GW over the last decade by its extreme hostility toward customers. Or are they just going to measure it indirectly by elevated profits going forward?

   
Made in ca
Phanobi






Canada,Prince Edward Island

Speaking of Canada I will be happy if this rolls out over here. I feel like a criminal having to order all my stuff via email, spreadsheets, and smoke signals. Guess that was why the whole ridiculous system was implemented in the first place. It made the GW website the only way to get their stuff.

I mean just check out the website of where I have to order my stuff. A shopping cart (and some basic web design) would go a long way!

http://www.gc-minis.com/


Being able to order from the states would be nice as well. I miss getting my huge orders of goodies from the warstore...

   
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Lady of the Lake






Manchu wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Reason as ever will be to help prevent online stores driving bricks and mortar stores out of business with discounts that they can't match.
If anything isn't backing away from a total ban to a 15% cap a tacit admission that either (a) [something about online retailers, see below] or (b) they don't care about brick'n'mortar stores? I really, really doubt it is (b), especially considering how much organized play type support GW is trying to catch up on.

I think it is definitely also an admission that online retail is the present and will be the future and it can't and won't and shouldn't be restricted to direct sales. If GW really wants to sell via US chains, this is something they would have been pretty well forced to accept.


As one of the conditions is still that they must have a brick and mortar store the discount is irrelevant as the same online stores that would undercut would also be the brick and mortar stores. Meaning the ones that could undercut would be the ones somehow selling without a trade agreement with GW.

   
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Solahma






RVA

That's not how it actually plays out. Miniature Market, for example, has a physical store. You can go there and shop and play games. But the real business is the huge online retail component. MM is the kind of company - in fact, probably the company - that the usual LGS is worried about.

Of course MM dropped GW like a bad habit years ago in light of GW's hostile policies. Perhaps that will change now - especially guven that MM swallowed the bitter pill of FFG and PP's discount caps.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/16 05:16:58


   
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Making Stuff






Under the couch

Manchu wrote:
Miniature Market, for example, has a physical store.

Most of the bigger online discounters over the years have seemed to have had a physical store. At least the ones that lasted for any length of time, at least.

Which seems to somewhat put a lie to the claim that online stores are a problem because physical stores can't compete.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/16 05:38:55


 
   
 
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