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lord_blackfang wrote: Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world. Steam game codes are region-locked. This isn't a GW issue.
The hell it isn't.
GW are the ones blocking sales across boarders, and it affects more than just Oz. US can't order from UK. UK can't order from Canadia. Canadia is stuck with their nonsense prices when a few miles away things are cheaper.
This isn't just about Australia and it damn-well is a GW issue.
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world. Steam game codes are region-locked. This isn't a GW issue.
The hell it isn't.
GW are the ones blocking sales across boarders, and it affects more than just Oz. US can't order from UK. UK can't order from Canadia. Canadia is stuck with their nonsense prices when a few miles away things are cheaper.
This isn't just about Australia and it damn-well is a GW issue.
So why then I can't buy from other companies stuff? At least easily. I need to utilize reshipping services to get stuff from Japan periodically.
Funny thing but not every company sells everywhere.
Nevermind really bonker stuff like amazon kindle. I can't buy kindle books from UK or(more crucially) Japanese amazon. I have to buy from US(despite being in Finland. WTF?). This is HUGE issue as US Kindle store has like <10% of books I would like to buy. Thanks a lot!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 07:16:59
tneva82 wrote: Funny thing but not every company sells everywhere.
'Cept GWdo sell everywhere. That's the difference.
You're aware that when the embargo first came in (and it could still be the case, I haven't checked) they didn't stop you from ordering from different GW stores overseas, but they slapped on massive shipping to discourage it. So a £3 pot of paint had a £70 shipping tag to Oz whereas a week before it was a 10th of that.
tneva82 wrote: Funny thing but not every company sells everywhere.
'Cept GWdo sell everywhere. That's the difference.
You're aware that when the embargo first came in (and it could still be the case, I haven't checked) they didn't stop you from ordering from different GW stores overseas, but they slapped on massive shipping to discourage it. So a £3 pot of paint had a £70 shipping tag to Oz whereas a week before it was a 10th of that.
And for good measure, it ships from the UK anyway. At least if you're in Japan.
Order from GW Japan, and they charge minimal shipping and post it from the UK. Order from GWUK and the shipping charges skyrocket. Even though it's all coming from the same place, by the same means.
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
The difference being that if I want Magic cards cheaper than they're available locally, I can just go and buy them from a US webstore.
GW chose to restrict independent sellers to selling within their own region, which I can only think had to cost them sales overall without actually doing anything significant to help the local accounts.
There were still ways around it, of course... EBay being the main one. But make it too hard for customers to buy your product at a reasonable price (yes, Black Library, I'm looking at you) and they are just as likely to not bother, and spend their money elsewhere.
lord_blackfang wrote: Even purely digital content is more expensive in your part of the world. Steam game codes are region-locked. This isn't a GW issue.
The hell it isn't.
GW are the ones blocking sales across boarders, and it affects more than just Oz. US can't order from UK. UK can't order from Canadia. Canadia is stuck with their nonsense prices when a few miles away things are cheaper.
This isn't just about Australia and it damn-well is a GW issue.
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
We can branch off in to looking at other products, but when it comes to wargames and plastic models, I've always been able to buy them internationally and have them shipped to Oz, though the local Oz price isn't usually a hell of a lot worse unless you're looking at GW products anyway.
You can blame the governments not creating legislation stopping companies from doing it, but having a faulty lock doesn't mean the thief is a stand up bloke deserving of respect.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/16 08:54:54
Retailers had been told this was coming a bit back, but not exactly when or what the discount cap was. Frontline Gaming was the face of the "enemy" that they used in their presentation.
Commander Cain wrote: Speaking of Canada I will be happy if this rolls out over here. I feel like a criminal having to order all my stuff via email, spreadsheets, and smoke signals. Guess that was why the whole ridiculous system was implemented in the first place. It made the GW website the only way to get their stuff.
I mean just check out the website of where I have to order my stuff. A shopping cart (and some basic web design) would go a long way!
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
The difference being that if I want Magic cards cheaper than they're available locally, I can just go and buy them from a US webstore.
GW chose to restrict independent sellers to selling within their own region, which I can only think had to cost them sales overall without actually doing anything significant to help the local accounts.
There were still ways around it, of course... EBay being the main one. But make it too hard for customers to buy your product at a reasonable price (yes, Black Library, I'm looking at you) and they are just as likely to not bother, and spend their money elsewhere.
That last paragraph is so true.
GW: "What if we made our whole company into Black Library?"
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
The difference being that if I want Magic cards cheaper than they're available locally, I can just go and buy them from a US webstore.
GW chose to restrict independent sellers to selling within their own region, which I can only think had to cost them sales overall without actually doing anything significant to help the local accounts.
Can you? Have you actually tried? I know for a fact that WotC does not allow Europeans to buy Magic from the US, and does not allow North Americans to buy Magic from South America, using the exact same mechanisms as GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someone is full of gak and it's not me.
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
The difference being that if I want Magic cards cheaper than they're available locally, I can just go and buy them from a US webstore.
GW chose to restrict independent sellers to selling within their own region, which I can only think had to cost them sales overall without actually doing anything significant to help the local accounts.
Can you? Have you actually tried? I know for a fact that WotC does not allow Europeans to buy Magic from the US, and does not allow North Americans to buy Magic from South America, using the exact same mechanisms as GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someone is full of gak and it's not me.
Due to distribution restrictions we are only able to ship this product to the United States, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands.
You realise your whole argument is basically "leave GW alone because other companies are equally massive dicks" right?
Showing how other companies may or may not impose similar restrictions does not diminish what GW are doing, and in order for you to establish even the same level of dickishness, you'll have to find a company doing it that is also selling directly into the consumer channel at a price inflated beyond all reasonable allowance of logistic costs or trade tariffs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 18:06:05
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The exact same rules apply to Magic cards, DVDs, college textbooks. It's not a GW issue. It's an issue of our governments allowing corporations to maximally exploit consumers in each region.
The difference being that if I want Magic cards cheaper than they're available locally, I can just go and buy them from a US webstore.
GW chose to restrict independent sellers to selling within their own region, which I can only think had to cost them sales overall without actually doing anything significant to help the local accounts.
Can you? Have you actually tried? I know for a fact that WotC does not allow Europeans to buy Magic from the US, and does not allow North Americans to buy Magic from South America, using the exact same mechanisms as GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someone is full of gak and it's not me.
You realise your whole argument is basically "leave GW alone because other companies are equally massive dicks" right?
Showing how other companies may or may not impose similar restrictions does not diminish what GW are doing, and in order for you to establish even the same level of dickishness, you'll have to find a company doing it that is also selling directly into the consumer channel at a price inflated beyond all reasonable allowance of logistic costs or trade tariffs.
Yeah, so blackfang has basically established that WotC are *also* massive dicks in addition to GW
In the realm of wargames and plastic models, at a guess I'd say the vast majority allow international sales and don't have hideously unequal wholesale prices from one region to the next.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 18:14:55
You realise your whole argument is basically "leave GW alone because other companies are equally massive dicks" right?
Showing how other companies may or may not impose similar restrictions does not diminish what GW are doing, and in order for you to establish even the same level of dickishness, you'll have to find a company doing it that is also selling directly into the consumer channel at a price inflated beyond all reasonable allowance of logistic costs or trade tariffs.
I'm showing some perspective because others are tying to make it out like only GW does this, and because at the end of the day, this amounts to nothing more than grown men complaining about the unfair price of toys when the exact same unfairness applies to everything from food, to medicine, to education. It's pointless to point fingers and rage at one company in an irrelevant field. Work against unfair international trade agreements.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
AduroT wrote: Frontline Gaming was the face of the "enemy" that they used in their presentation.
Could you please elaborate on how Frontline is supposed to be "the enemy" according to GW? (I'm interested in their actual argument rather than speculation.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 18:35:22
You realise your whole argument is basically "leave GW alone because other companies are equally massive dicks" right?
Showing how other companies may or may not impose similar restrictions does not diminish what GW are doing, and in order for you to establish even the same level of dickishness, you'll have to find a company doing it that is also selling directly into the consumer channel at a price inflated beyond all reasonable allowance of logistic costs or trade tariffs.
I'm showing some perspective because others are tying to make it out like only GW does this, and because at the end of the day, this amounts to nothing more than grown men complaining about the unfair price of toys when the exact same unfairness applies to everything from food, to medicine, to education. It's pointless to point fingers and rage at one company in an irrelevant field. Work against unfair international trade agreements.
Yeah exactly this and reinforces my belief that there are a lot of GW gamers that ONLY play GW games. This isn't new or surprising.
On the matter of MTG cards.. yes you can find them at NEAR distribution costs if you pre-order however those businesses make basically no money off it. Why do they do it? Because a lot of players sell back a good portion of their cards at 25% the price which allows that store to sell them back as singles. That simply doesn't happen with models.
Retail policy isn't about freedom to do what you want and what is most advantageous for the customer, it's about making money.
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
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Kirasu wrote: Yeah exactly this and reinforces my belief that there are a lot of GW gamers that ONLY play GW games. This isn't new or surprising.
Or, ya know, they don't play MTG, because I've bought other non-GW games from international sellers without a problem. In fact I've bought from GW's UK online store and had it shipped to Australia not all that long ago
Can you? Have you actually tried? I know for a fact that WotC does not allow Europeans to buy Magic from the US, and does not allow North Americans to buy Magic from South America, using the exact same mechanisms as GW.
Must be a relatively recent change, as I was buying plenty of WotC product from the US not so many years ago.
You could take out 'Magic' and substitute just about any other non-GW wargames company, though... except that in the case of, say, Privateer Press (also not the best example, as they're currently trying very hard to be the next GW) there's not as much need for me to buy from overseas as the locals prices are as ridiculously inflated.
To be clear - nobody thinks that GW are the only company on the planet that uses regional pricing or distribution restrictions. They are, however, far more aggressive with it that any other miniatures company I know of. And that's largely because so many of their policy decisions are still rooted in outdated market ideas. More progressive companies are starting to realise that the internet is a thing, and that regional restrictions like that either aren't good for business or simply don't work any more.
And then, of course, as others pointed out, there's the obvious fact that 'everyone else is doing it' isn't actually a particularly good excuse for dodgy behaviour.
AduroT wrote: Frontline Gaming was the face of the "enemy" that they used in their presentation.
Could you please elaborate on how Frontline is supposed to be "the enemy" according to GW? (I'm interested in their actual argument rather than speculation.)
They're going up against massive online discounts, and Frontline offers those.
You realise your whole argument is basically "leave GW alone because other companies are equally massive dicks" right?
Showing how other companies may or may not impose similar restrictions does not diminish what GW are doing, and in order for you to establish even the same level of dickishness, you'll have to find a company doing it that is also selling directly into the consumer channel at a price inflated beyond all reasonable allowance of logistic costs or trade tariffs.
I'm showing some perspective because others are tying to make it out like only GW does this, and because at the end of the day, this amounts to nothing more than grown men complaining about the unfair price of toys when the exact same unfairness applies to everything from food, to medicine, to education. It's pointless to point fingers and rage at one company in an irrelevant field. Work against unfair international trade agreements.
So Magic is 40+% more expensive in Australia than it is in the US?
Genuine question.
Edit.
Which I've answered myself, as that's the sort of question that doesn't tend to get genuine answers or is glossed over.
Good Games.au - Tarkir booster AUS$175
The War Store - Tarkir booster US$120
Difference in price for a box at today's exchange rate? AUS$14
So less than 10%, which is within the realms of what is explicable due to logistics and tariffs, could all but disappear with a small swing in exchange rate and likely smaller than the cost to an Ozzie consumer ordering from the US.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/16 19:26:11
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
AduroT wrote: Frontline Gaming was the face of the "enemy" that they used in their presentation.
Could you please elaborate on how Frontline is supposed to be "the enemy" according to GW? (I'm interested in their actual argument rather than speculation.)
They're going up against massive online discounts, and Frontline offers those.
I remember when The Warstore was the face of the enemy when GW first instituted the no online shopping cart ban in NA. What's funny is both Frontline Gaming and The Warstore had brick and mortor locations and in fact now have mulitple locations. Furthermore Frontline Gaming is one of, if not the largest, private supporter of organized play (ITC, LVO, BAO, etc.) and GW focused content (Podcasts, Twitch, Youtube).
As for how retailers like Frontline Gaming and The Warstore can adapt to the new pricing floor, one easy thing is free shipping or lower their free shipping threshold.
Ultimately I don't think this will change anything for my local FLGS (or any others that wan't already significantly invested in online sales) as they don't offer online sales and if the floor to do online sales is offering the maximum allowed discount, then they don't have much incentive to undercut their own sales. GW knows this so this isn't an attempt to protect brick and mortar stores, this is an attempt to prevent product devaluation through systemic discounting. They basically are telling places like Frontline Gaming and The Warstore that in exchange for limiting your discounting, we will allow online shopping carts.
So don't believe this is a consumer or even a brick and mortar store friendly move. It's another attempt by GW to scale back/limit discounting without cutting off their noise to spite their face.
"Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words." ~ St. Francis of Assisi
I think it's good that they're allowing online shopping carts for NA stores. I'll mostly continue to buy from local brick and mortar stores, because they have a secondary function as a clubhouse and I think that tabletop gaming needs visible clubhouses in order to truly thrive.
(A combination of Youtube and Meetup-type groups might be able to replace physical locations in terms of fostering a community, but I'm not sure.)
Slightly off-topic, do gaming clubs ever start their own stores under some type of co-op model?
Azreal13 wrote: You know America, for the largest capitalist economy in the world, some of your trade laws are pretty dumb!
Unfortunately, many Americans, having no real education in economics and thus no real understanding of the necessity of regulation, hate all regulation as an ideological default. Special interest groups have taken advantage of this to get laws passed in order to minimize competition and reduce the free market via stripping regulation that would otherwise encourage a free market.
Because, ultimately, the idea of a free market is not actually all that profitable to the companies providing goods and services, especially compared to a non-free market wherein the companies themselves have control over information, prices, barriers to entry, and other sources of monopolistic market power, and are able to use them to maximize profit.
Instead of talking about necessary regulations to encourage a free market, we get "hurr regulations bad mkay" and any argument to the contrary gets instinctively dismissed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/16 21:57:17
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Slightly off-topic, do gaming clubs ever start their own stores under some type of co-op model?
It's been done, but it rarely lasts very long as the people running it discover how much work it is, or get everything they need and move on. It used to be a thing down here, before GW started insisting on accounts having a physical store location.
Renegades - 
