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I would certainly pay for the chance to play at a nice place with likeable people and a friendly atmosphere.

Games clubs not located in stores are the "normal" state for Australian games clubs.

The "store club" model only came about in the mid 90s when GW opened their first "battle bunker" here. Prior to this (and indeed, even afterwards) the non-store model is still seen as normal.

This is how it is done in Japan, renting a room at the local community center , we the people who want to play pay a fee.

No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

 Peregrine wrote:
No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

Probably because in america when manage to do this gaming club business for free

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

I suppose if not wanting to throw away extra money for the same service is being a tight arse, then yeah, we are.

I have paid to play at gaming clubs for many, many years.

Playing in stores is terrible.

Local club is £10 membership for a year, then £2 for each session (first two are free for newbies)

Members can also borrow scenery for home gaming - but I'm offering to pay £2 per lend, on account I can rarely make club nights to work arrangements. Seems unfair for me to benefit from the collective cash pot without ever really putting in.

See all these interminable arguments about "pay where you play"? They all go away when you play outside of a shop.

If you have a local shop with good gaming tables, congratulations. However, that's not been the norm outside the USA.

The closest to that I've played at regularly is really a gaming venue with a shop attached, rather than a shop with gaming space; It's a renovated snooker hall. The other games shops nearby (ish) with gaming space seem quite small; half a dozen tables by the looks of things. Our club has room for 20 4' x 6' tables, the painted scenery to fill them and room to move between them. And as often as not, they're all in use.

Quite a lot of clubs are more "communal" than ours; they put on big group games whereas we just let the gamers get on with their own thing.

Catering isn't an issue - we get boiling water from the venue and sell tea & coffee; other than that, there's a selection of takeaways and convenience shops for all your unhealthy gamer snack needs.

My local club is in a Working Men's Club.

So not only games, but beer. Cheap Beer!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My local club is in a Working Men's Club.

So not only games, but beer. Cheap Beer!

You lucky, LUCKY bastard Grotsnik!

I pay £2.50 a session in the FLGS where I go to game. It's got 2 floors of tables, a mixed 6x4 with smaller ones. This is due to it being a board game/RP gaming/card game/war gaming store, and as such needs to cater for them all.
You can buy a year pass for £70, which also gives you a 10% discount at a independent food place literally 2 doors away (which is really good!) But, most pay when they need to, like me.

The store does supply terrain, mats, etc. But you are welcome to bring your own if you want. Add in the friendly staff, awesome service and regular routine and pub board game nights, it's worth paying for IMHO.

I help run a Gaming Club out of a Community Centre (I'm a keyholder for the Community Centre and I usually run the cash box for subs and pay the rent to the Centre). We charge £2 per head per session in subs to help pay for the rent. Each individual's first visit to the Club is free. Because we're such a small club atm, we have a very generous agreement with the Community Centre's managers that only requires us to pay £2 per person that attends a session, we don't have a fixed cost in rent. If 10 people attend, we pay the Centre £10. If 2 people attend, we pay £4. This will most likely change once we get our numbers up.

Another gaming group in the same town has an agreement with a Leisure Centre that gives them free use of a Conference room for a Saturday night provided they collectively spend over £50 on food (the Conference Room is next door to the Leisure Centre's pub, and its a fantastic menu). That might sound like a lot but they're a big group with 15-20 members per session being the norm, so it only takes half the group to order a meal to cover the cost of the room.

If you want a free gaming venue, run it at your own home. Otherwise you're probably going to have to contribute in some fashion.

I used to pay $100 per year to belong to a club that met at a community center 1 time per week (I believe people could also pay $5 per day).

My suggestion would be to determine the level of interest prior to acting on anything. Try to connect with other local gamers, maybe host gaming at your house (if possible). Start up a club, and then if you have enough interest look to find a venue for gaming that fits the size of your group. Having a space that would fit 20-30 people playing games might be not so important if you only get 10 to show up.

Try to find places that are willing to contract for yearly leases of space, it will likely cost less overall than renting on a one time basis. Then once you know what the cost is you can set club dues.

Yeah I'm not planning to jump into this tomorrow. It will probably not be something I start doing till the summer. I'll get involved with some local groups online first and see if there's enough interest. I've been shopping around for spaces and finding stuff more in the $300 range, so that's a lot better than $500.. gonna keep looking, there's gotta be cheaper places out there.. I just want it to be in a decent area with good parking. I'd like the game day admission to be $5, maybe 10 tops but the lower the better, so a cheaper place where we meet reularly would be good and probably get a discount for always going there. Think it's gonna take some time to find a good place.

And I would be offering more than just tables. I'd be running lots of organized events, leagues, I can maintain campaigns for people, whatever they need, and set up a website / blog and forum for people to chat and talk about what games they plan to play and stuff. I'd also be providing all of the tables and scenery (but graciously accepting donations) and that's all gonna be outta pocket for me. I'll bring my own copies of Zombicide and other games to try and have a small library of boxed games for people to play (and graciously accepting donations). At first I would likely start small but I would hope to expand over time as the club grows. Would be especially awesome if I could have a regular location that would allow me to store stuff in a closet somewhere, but that would only probably work if we met weekly.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My local club is in a Working Men's Club.

So not only games, but beer. Cheap Beer!

One of the local stores here sells beer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Necros wrote:
I'll get involved with some local groups online first and see if there's enough interest.

If these people already have a functioning group it presumably includes a place to play. Why would they be interested in your new business instead?

Why does it have to be "instead"? Why can't it be on a different day or time?

 frozenwastes wrote:
Why does it have to be "instead"? Why can't it be on a different day or time?

This.

And it's not a business, it's a club My schedule doesn't mesh well with store events, I want to set up a game day where I can play games with my friends and also invite other people to come and play too, in a location with ample room and and parking and on a recurring day every month or twice a month. No one should feel like they need to leave their own group or stop playing at their local store, it's just another place and group to play with. So I want to set something up that fits my schedule better and hopefully others too

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

I suppose if not wanting to throw away extra money for the same service is being a tight arse, then yeah, we are.

I think the difference in America is that you have more game stores that allow you to play for free. In the UK it comes down to those wanting to play having to hire venues and then recouping the costs from those who attend. Even so, we're not talking vast amounts,. Any excess money is put into buying scenery or rule books etc.

 CrownAxe wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

Probably because in america when manage to do this gaming club business for free

Well, you get someone else to foot the bill. Like your walls.

 CrownAxe wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

Probably because in america when manage to do this gaming club business for free

Ehh... kinda. It really depends on where you live, the sprawl, if it's a college town, etc. Lots of gaming stores are going under. I live just outside of Houston, 4th largest city in the country, and there's like one place within an hour drive that has a few tables.

 Peregrine wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think Americans seem to be too much of tight arses for this idea to work there, seems to be a better idea elsewhere in the world.

I suppose if not wanting to throw away extra money for the same service is being a tight arse, then yeah, we are.

Unless you have a store with tons of space and tables, it's not the same service though. If you do have that, that's great and all, but most gaming stores I've been to (both in Australia and the US) have, 1 - 2 or MAYBE 3 - 4 gaming tables (if it's 3 - 4 then they're probably pissy little tables instead).

Given how long most wargames take to play, usually an hour +, as soon as you add "hanging around waiting" to my plan for the evening my motivation to play a game drops like a rock

Places with 5+ tables over here usually have that many tables because they rented an extra large area so charge a few bucks for you to play on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Probably because in america when manage to do this gaming club business for free

Yeah, because someone else is paying the bill

It seems to me Muricans are happier to play in a gaming store at home for "free"*** - with all the limitations that entails - while peoples from other countries are typically more inclined to pay some money to play in a larger place with more/better tables where they can have more people around without everyone just sitting around waiting for the tables to become free.

*** - "free" in the sense you aren't paying to play, but obviously the price of the tables comes either out of the store's pockets which means you're paying for it indirectly, or if you're playing at home you've probably already spent a bunch of monies setting up the table.

 Necros wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
Why does it have to be "instead"? Why can't it be on a different day or time?

This.

And it's not a business, it's a club My schedule doesn't mesh well with store events, I want to set up a game day where I can play games with my friends and also invite other people to come and play too, in a location with ample room and and parking and on a recurring day every month or twice a month. No one should feel like they need to leave their own group or stop playing at their local store, it's just another place and group to play with. So I want to set something up that fits my schedule better and hopefully others too

Rent a room in a community centres or similar venue for a few hours once a week. You have community centres over the pond right?

 Peregrine wrote:
No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

In Japan this is difficult because space costs premium rent. The game shop i go to has one table and almost no room to move around. So renting a community room is the only way. (or have a big house/or apartment)

 Peregrine wrote:
No, wouldn't be interested in this at all. Stores provide gaming space for free, and without the extremely limited one day a week schedule. If you want me to pay $20 you're going to have to do more provide some 6x4 tables. That means organized events (with prizes, nice terrain, etc), and you'd better do a good job running them. And even then $20 is a little on the high side so you'd better be providing a premium experience if you want that money.

Outside of America, stores with large gaming spaces are the exception, not the rule. Most are lucky to have a few tables. The biggest I've seen is my FLGS that has 8 tables for wargaming, a large table for RPG players and a lot of foldout tables for card game players, but when one particular group feels like having a big day, everyone else is pushed out. It's also cramped - if someone needs to get past to go the the bathroom or get a drink or food and they're on the far end of the tables, everyone needs to move with them, then move again so they can get back.

In Australia and Europe, the gaming club model is much more common. People set up a club that rents space at a pub (if they want a more adult only crowd), church hall, school assembly hall, etc. Make their own tables, terrain, libraries of source books, etc and manage their own funds to keep such communal resources up to date. Generally they strike a deal with local stores to give extra discounts if they shop there and let the group advertise there for a mutual benefit - club gets more members, store gets more customers.

Honestly, my Infinity group has gotten to the point where I've considered suggesting it. We all meet at the store, and discover that the FoW/Historical/40k/AoS/Batman/X-Wing/etc guys decided it would also be a great day to have a gathering and basically people who arrive first secure tables for their group. When there's 6-8 of us looking to have a game and only 2 tables are available, it means people either stand around talking for 3 hours and hope to get a game in before the store closes or just decide to go home.

For the people saying "outside the US", the OP is in the US. I'm sure gaming clubs make a lot of sense when stores don't have space available, but having open gaming space is standard in the US.

 Peregrine wrote:
For the people saying "outside the US", the OP is in the US. I'm sure gaming clubs make a lot of sense when stores don't have space available, but having open gaming space is standard in the US.

Out of interest, how many tables and how big are they at your local store/stores?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Out of interest, how many tables and how big are they at your local store/stores?

Let's see...

Store #1: at least 20-30 6x4 tables, more for major events if they stop normal sales and move the shelves into the back room (which they'll do for the biggest events). They've hosted a 120 person X-Wing regional tournament, and lots of major MTG events. Terrain is probably the limiting factor rather than table space, but they have enough to run a decent sized 40k tournament piled up on the shelves.

Store #2: about 10ish game-sized folding tables, 3-5 of which have nice wood-framed 6x4 boards for miniatures games, and plenty of terrain for simultaneous 40k games on all of them.

Store #3: about 10-20 tables, depending on configuration (they do more MTG than miniatures, but can host 3-5 X-Wing games, a couple of D&D groups, and a 20-30 person MTG tournament at the same time).

Store #4: 2-3 tables, one of which is committed to the newbie demo table (which is hardly ever used, as far as I can tell). GW stores suck.

You're pretty lucky then. Even when I was living in the US there were no stores like that locally (or even within the several nearby towns that I looked at while trying to find places to try a game).

 Necros wrote:
I would pay $20 if it was once a month and fun But I came up with that number just doing some math in my head.. if a hall costs $500 to rent for the day, it'll take 25 people at $20 a head to cover that. If there were 50 people, it would cost $10.. but I don't really expect there to be anywhere near that many. I guess you never know, but still. Or maybe 50 people @ $20 still, and lunch is included (ordering pizzas or sandwich trays)?

There might be some cheaper halls, and maybe we'd get a discount if we schedule multiple days in a row. I just did some online searches and $500 seemed to be a fairly common price.

How does your club manage to charge just £3? Are there a lot of people?

Squeeze the halls for price. These halls sit empty most of the time, so it's a non-performing asset for these guys. Getting a regular schedule of income from an organization/club is going to be very attractive to them. Work the "repeat customer" angle and really beat 'em up over cost and most importantly, be prepared to walk away. If they know you're not just going to be a one-and-done income for them, they'll more than likely want to work with you to secure the repeating revenue stream.