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The latest faq on daemons that came out in january clearly states that all brotherhood of psykers in the codex as well as any psykers can generate their powers from the malefic discipline.

The pink, blue and brimstone horrors are said to replace and be included in the chaos daemons codex. This is clearly stated at the start of the Daemons chapter of the wrath of magnus book.

Therefore, as per the LATEST OFFICIAL FAQ pink horrors can generate powers from malefic and therefore summon more daemons

I know some tournaments forbid this specifically but I'm talking purely official ruling by gamesworkshop doesn't anywhere deny this from happening.

Is there any information I have missed or am I correct on this ruling?

Thanks

ravenerioli wrote:
The latest faq on daemons that came out in january clearly states that all brotherhood of psykers in the codex as well as any psykers can generate their powers from the malefic discipline.

Quote please.

You're missing the wraith of magnus FAQ

1. The original FAQ was made to update 6th ed codeces after maelefic was introduced to allow them to use it.
2. More recent codeces have listed whether you get to use maelefic or not (techinically they don't dissallow you to use maelefic by not saying you can use it, but common sense tells us to just use the powers given to us)
3. Even if you don't agree with the above, the latest Daemons FAQ (WoM) Pink Horrors can't use maelefic since it isn't stated

Generally daemons have malefic, specifically horrors do not. Due to wrath of Magnus FAQ.

 mrhappyface wrote:
1. The original FAQ was made to update 6th ed codeces after maelefic was introduced to allow them to use it.
2. More recent codeces have listed whether you get to use maelefic or not (techinically they don't dissallow you to use maelefic by not saying you can use it, but common sense tells us to just use the powers given to us)
3. Even if you don't agree with the above, the latest Daemons FAQ (WoM) Pink Horrors can't use maelefic since it isn't stated

I still find it funny how people continue to argue that since the BRB says everyone has it that they get it when it clearly was so that old books didn't have to be updated. Especially funny when people argue the use for malefic when their tables known only list sanctic.

And on the topic of horrors, you don't need to summon more horrors under the new split rules. I played in a tournament with 3 units of 11 pinks and 3 units of 11 blues and the board always had bodies all over it. And it is funny watching Brimstones get D-weapons and beat up eldar in hand to hand.

Azoqu wrote:

I still find it funny how people continue to argue that since the BRB says everyone has it that they get it when it clearly was so that old books didn't have to be updated. Especially funny when people argue the use for malefic when their tables known only list sanctic.

This is because the BRB does not tell you that the rules only applies to older versions of codices. As a rule that is printed in the main rules, it applies to EACH AND EVERY codex that is playable in this edition, regardless of when it came out. New codices are not denying access to Malefic by only listing Sanctic.

I get the intention is pretty clear, but I cannot understand how anyone can argue that the rule is old, so it doesn't apply. That is like saying Flesh Hounds do not have Fleet because it isn't listed on their datasheet. All Beast have Fleet, just like every Psyker has access to both Malefic & Sanctic per that RULES.

The only exceptions to are:
Nids - BRB says no Daemonology access at all
GK - BRB says Sanctic only
Daemons BRB says Malefic only
Pink horrors - No Sanctic (see above) and WoM FAQ says no Malefic either
Yncarne the Avatar of Ynnead - Fracture of Beil-Tan says no Malefic

Those are the only WRITTEN exceptions to Psykers having Access to Daemonology
So just because a Psyker has "Daemonolgy (Sanctic)" does not mean the cannot access Malefic. It is pretty obvious that this is GWs intention, but it is NOT RAW

What is still up for debate is if BLUE and Brimstone horrors can still take Malefic, because the WoM FAQ only states "PINK" horrors. This is poor wording choice on GW's part, but it means that by the letter on the rules, Blues & Brims can roll Malefic still. HIWPI is that I will not roll on Malefic, but that is my choice as a player and I could not prevent others from doing so if they wish.

-

Have any of you read the version 1.3 daemons FAQ and errata?

It clearly states that all daemons that are pyskers, or brothehoods, get malefic. Pink horrors from magnus replace the ones in the daemon codex therefore pinkhorrors get malefic, the latest FAQ always overrides older FAQ.

Here's the quote:

AMENDMENTS
Various – Psykers
Any model with the Psyker or Brotherhood of Sorcerers
special rule may generate powers from the Daemonology
discipline in addition to the others listed in their Army
List Entries.

Here's the link

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Errata/Warhammer_40000/Chaos_Daemons_EN.pdf

You are contradicting yourself: you say we should always use the newest faq yet you are quoting an errata which is older than the WoM faq. The WoM faq clearly states pink horrors don't get maelefic.

^ What this guy just said. WoM faq is newer

also WoM states that it replaces the army list entries of Chaos Daemons, so the Chaos Daemons FAQ doesn't apply to them anymore

So what happens if your using the Daemon codex to build your army, using the Pink Horrors listed in that book because you don't want to fork out for the Wrath of Magnus just for one unit.
Do you use the old rules, no split etc but use malefic powers

 Rolsheen wrote:
So what happens if your using the Daemon codex to build your army, using the Pink Horrors listed in that book because you don't want to fork out for the Wrath of Magnus just for one unit.
Do you use the old rules, no split etc but use malefic powers

Technically that would be cheating since you are using older rules for a model when newer ones exist, it would be similar to you using an old codex to get better rules. However, the fact that WoM is a supplement muddies the water a bit. :/

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
So what happens if your using the Daemon codex to build your army, using the Pink Horrors listed in that book because you don't want to fork out for the Wrath of Magnus just for one unit.
Do you use the old rules, no split etc but use malefic powers

Technically that would be cheating since you are using older rules for a model when newer ones exist, it would be similar to you using an old codex to get better rules. However, the fact that WoM is a supplement muddies the water a bit. :/

It's also muddied because people still say you can use the old rules for Inquisition units in Codex: Inquisition (where Jokaero have IC, for example) as compared to C:IA since both are still for sale. Using that as a precedent, I would assume you could pick to use either version of the Horrors.

Damn I made the mistake I thought the daemon FAQ came out in january, because all the FAQs and erratas came out in one big blob in JAN but obviously they just released all of them that had been made over the preceding few months, so WoM did come out after

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
So what happens if your using the Daemon codex to build your army, using the Pink Horrors listed in that book because you don't want to fork out for the Wrath of Magnus just for one unit.
Do you use the old rules, no split etc but use malefic powers

Technically that would be cheating since you are using older rules for a model when newer ones exist, it would be similar to you using an old codex to get better rules. However, the fact that WoM is a supplement muddies the water a bit. :/

most People simply say that its up to the opponent if they are okay with it, and if they aren't you'll need to remake the list kinda thing

This is one of those cases (for me) in which I would want my opponent to use the newest rules (because they are current) but would not have issue with them not having the WoM book. If you don't want to use the current (and thus only valid version) of the rules for Horrors, than do not use Horrors.

@galef, do use the rules from Death from the Skies? After all those are updated rules to the BRB rules for Flyers.

 Happyjew wrote:
@galef, do use the rules from Death from the Skies? After all those are updated rules to the BRB rules for Flyers.

My local group actually stopped playing Flyers entirely because of that supplement. The few times since then that I have played a Flyer or seen someone play a Flyer, we did ignore DftS, but that was houseruling it. Both Players agreeing to not use a piece of hot garbage.

My point still stands that in order to use Pink Horrors without the split rule and able to use Malefic, you would need permission from your opponent to use outdated rules.
You do not need permission to use the current WoM Horror rules.

as a casual CD player nowhere in CD codex or its faq does it tell me that the existing pink horrors are no longer valid units. Furthermore they define errata as being errors in the codex so if a unit is no longer valid I would expect it to be in the errata as in stronghold assault faq CD is the latest codex so it's list entries should still be valid subject to erata.

the gw website states WoM contains new datasheets special rules and wargear for pink horrors but doesn't state whether these are replacement or supplementery so without the book I would assume supplementary like imperial agents as it's a supplement

The only other army I can think of that's has updated codex units in the supplement is BA with angels blade but if you choose to take the Base rulebook stats they can be constructed identically from the updated datasheets (so really your getting supplementary options) and the website explicitly lists these as updated datasheets not new ones

So as a player without access to that supplement I would naturally conclude both datasheets are valid as both supplement and codex are valid and I have no errata telling me otherwise and the supplement is listed as new not updated (it may say different in the book but I don't have it)

Also all current faq are valid as far as I'm aware I wasnt aware of an explicit timestamp rule I would not expect to apply faq for a supplement I'm not using to a codex I am