Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So one of my LGSs (can't call this one a FLGS these days) got in at least 10 copies of SWA, where the other store had only gotten in copies people preordered (and I didn't plan on buying at launch because I figured it wasn't a one and done). Decided Wednesday I'd get one because I want a hard copy of the rules and all the tokens, and some scouts wouldn't hurt, was just going to sell the rest. Go to this store and the owner has decided that since he knows SWA is hard to find, he's selling them for $160 instead of $130. I mean, I made back my money by selling everything I didn't want from the kit, but what do you guys think of stores that scalp products that are limited run? I mean, I at least used to think he was a legitimate business, and no legitimate business would scalp stuff, you didn't see gamestop selling nintendo switches for more than listed. This definitely helped me make up my mind about never buying from this place, I'd want him to go out of business but that would mean all his toadies would have to come to the store I like.

 kingbobbito wrote:
...and no legitimate business would scalp stuff...

...Wha...?

This is a very simple set of equations. Supply of SWA is apparently limited. Demand is apparently high. Your LGS decided that people would probably still buy it if they charged an extra $30. You are now presented with the choice to buy it from them for an extra $30 or buy it from someone else at someone else's price.

Nowhere in there is "legitimate business" a relevant or useful concept. Your power to dictate prices to any supplier extends to whether you choose to buy the plastic toys, there's no intrinsic fairness that mandates them to sell plastic toys at list price here.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
...and no legitimate business would scalp stuff...

...Wha...?

This is a very simple set of equations. Supply of SWA is apparently limited. Demand is apparently high. Your LGS decided that people would probably still buy it if they charged an extra $30. You are now presented with the choice to buy it from them for an extra $30 or buy it from someone else at someone else's price.

Nowhere in there is "legitimate business" a relevant or useful concept. Your power to dictate prices to any supplier extends to whether you choose to buy the plastic toys, there's no intrinsic fairness that mandates them to sell plastic toys at list price here.

As much as people want to believe 40k is a collector's item, even you admit they are plastic toys. At Christmas time did you see toys are us selling anything at a markup because they were having trouble getting it in stock? They sell limited edition items as well, and you don't see them deciding that when stock is low they're going to bump up the prices.

Let me guess, you think it's fine when people take bottled water into areas where disasters have hit and sell it for triple what it's worth?

(EDIT: why can't I say r?)

If you're really irritated, and I think that's fairly shifty practices, you could let GW know- there might be something in their contracts about markup if you wanted them to slap around the store.

Personally, I might. If a store is run by jerks, why not hurt their business? I've certainly written my share of criticisms in hopes that my bad experience translates to a few lost sales (retaliation) and some avoided bad experiences (helping others avoid that).

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
If you're really irritated, and I think that's fairly shifty practices, you could let GW know- there might be something in their contracts about markup if you wanted them to slap around the store.

Personally, I might. If a store is run by jerks, why not hurt their business? I've certainly written my share of criticisms in hopes that my bad experience translates to a few lost sales (retaliation) and some avoided bad experiences (helping others avoid that).

I was going to suggest the same thing actually. If you have an issue with how the product is being handled, just contact GW and see if they say it's alright.
I've heard from my local store that they can be stupidly strict on things, but I was never given any specifics about pricing.

Their store, good for them. Don't like it? Vote with your dollars.

The local game store here in Charleston which has been around forever is complete crap and sell almost everything in the store above MSRP (while not having priced listed on the items).

What do I do? I don't shop there. End of problem.

This is the first I've bought from that store in about 2 years now because of some of his business practices. He's especially well known for "ordering" models for you, requiring that you pay ahead of time, and often not getting the models in for at least a few months; the other store has your order in a week, 2 at most. I stopped shopping there after he conned me into buying the old empire starter set (no clue how old it was, but everything but knights have had new models made, and it was the old lighter, crappier plastic).

 Elbows wrote:
Their store, good for them. Don't like it? Vote with your dollars.

The local game store here in Charleston which has been around forever is complete crap and sell almost everything in the store above MSRP (while not having priced listed on the items).

What do I do? I don't shop there. End of problem.

The issue is that the OP doesn't know what scalping is, and has a poor grasp of basic economics.

I sincerely doubt that GW cares what the LGS is doing, or has anything in the stocking contract about it. They already got their money from the LGS, and while they definitely have conditions about not underselling GW's MSRP, why would they care at all if an LGS sells over MSRP?

This sort of stuff happens all the time in collectable games.

For those of you that played MTG, have any of you ever seen the From the Vaults sets sold for MSRP or close to it? The best price I ever saw was twice MSRP.

Same goes for the debacle that was Modern Masters (every year) and especially Eternal Masters.

This is why a good store is hard to find. And why if you do find one you should probably support them from time to time. There was one guy here who bought all copies of Captain Centos and tried scalping them on a local ad-site. People didn't care, and his ads are still up as of this day. I'd bet he regrets trying to scalp people like that since he's probably a few hundred deep into the hole now.

OP paid the increased price, lost all rights to criticism.

 kingbobbito wrote:
Let me guess, you think it's fine when people take bottled water into areas where disasters have hit and sell it for triple what it's worth?

Do you honestly see no difference between spiking prices on an essential item that people will literally die without, and increasing prices a bit on a luxury item to reflect its actual market price?

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
This sort of stuff happens all the time in collectable games.

For those of you that played MTG, have any of you ever seen the From the Vaults sets sold for MSRP or close to it? The best price I ever saw was twice MSRP.

Same goes for the debacle that was Modern Masters (every year) and especially Eternal Masters.

This is why a good store is hard to find. And why if you do find one you should probably support them from time to time. There was one guy here who bought all copies of Captain Centos and tried scalping them on a local ad-site. People didn't care, and his ads are still up as of this day. I'd bet he regrets trying to scalp people like that since he's probably a few hundred deep into the hole now.

I'm probably one of the few that can say that he is truly blessed with a good FLGS. Our 40k crowd is slow, so I get to enjoy a place where limited run boxes sit on a shelf for a long while. Ironically, to prove a point with the MTG reference, with Eternal Masters, they sold at MSRP but had a limit of 1 box a day. Good times.

Lol lucky you. I have never seen a booster of Eternal Master drop below 20 bucks. In theory you can make your money back, but when you're standing there watching someone hand over 100 bucks for 5 pack of cards, it kinda makes you second guess your hobby choices.

I mean for 100 bucks I can get a Start Collecting set. It's kind of sad when Warhammer 40k seemed like the cheaper deal.

'Legitimate' businesses set higher prices all the time. Have you never been into a convenience store?

Businesses tend to try to stick close to the recommended retail price or lower because generally not doing so just loses sales to cheaper competitors. But there are any number of reasons for a store to choose to charge more than retail... and many, particularly in regional areas, who do it as a matter of course.

A retailer choosing to increase the shelf price on an in-demand item isn't 'scalping', nor is it particularly dodgy. It might not win them friends, but they're entirely within their rights to set the price wherever they choose.

As much as people want to believe 40k is a collector's item, even you admit they are plastic toys. At Christmas time did you see toys are us selling anything at a markup because they were having trouble getting it in stock?

Actually, Christmas time last year, "hatchables" were THE toy to have and demand was very high (around my area). What usually went for around $25-30 was suddenly going for $50+ from all the toy stores.

OP pays over price, sells bits he doesn't want completely making back his money and then complains about the overprice!

Anyone else see a problem with that sequence of events?

To the OP why is it bad if the store charges a premium and not if you do?

I keep having echo in my mind "Sell for what the market will bear.".
I was impressed, I was at my FLGS and saw 10 of the boxes go out in under an hour.
They had 60 boxes, I am now wondering if I made an error not getting two.

As long as the rules make it to us mere mortals who don't have a chance in hell of getting SW:A, I'll be happy. I have to wonder if the excessive demand now has been caused by the scalpers...

Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price

Is it scummy? Yes. Is it fair to customers at the consumer level? No. But there's nothing you can do about this sort of markup short of petitioning the producer (GW) to disallow this sort of behavior. GW already bans a lot of stuff like online shopping carts and international shipping, so anything is possible. On your end, the only thing you can do is not purchase from this seller and hope everyone else does the same. That's the only way to punish him in this scenario. But realistically, plenty of people will buy it from him even at the increased price. This is why he is doing it to begin with.

Third-party stores do this all the time with high demand products. There are special boxes of Magic cards that are "supposed" to be sold for $90, but are sold for $150 in stores and then go for $200+ on eBay. It's all because the producers' supply never meets the demand, whether because their initial run was too small (video game consoles on release, GW boxed sets) or they purposefully limited runs it to make the product special or limited edition.

I think the only stores I've never seen do this are those major chains like Target, Walmart, etc. Everyone else is willing and able to set whatever prices they want.

This is because those stores generally don't carry limited edition items that often, and the ones they do are usually only limited edition in name only (as in, they go on the same production run as everyone else).

Case in point just look at the lego Technic Porsche. It's suppose to be special, but do you think Lego is going to stop production of them before it's scheduled production run?

The reason why this is so pronounced in niche hobbies (comic books, collectable card games, boxed games) is because the consumer base is so small in comparison to a mass market product that the producer doesn't want to risk making more than a handful amount (comparatively).

Take my college year for example. We had about 150 students. Of those 150, about 10-20 (so say 15) of them played MTG, and MTG is considered one of the more "popular" hobbies. 40k was even more niche, as only about 5 out of those 150 people knew about it, and only 2 played it! And my program is full of geeks and nerds! (Kind of a given, considering we were all animation students aiming for the gaming industry). By contrast, everyone in my year has played with legos at some point in their lives and owned at least one action figure that they only liked the look of (and didn't actually know where it's series is).

Note that price hikes like this was usually kept in check by competitors, especially online ones (for those that collect MTG cards, I've bet at some point you've went around comic shops looking at who had the lowest prices. And I bet 90% of them had the same price or offered to meet a competitor's price). This is why GW cracked down on them a while ago because their price wars drove sales away from GW's own stores (and that's all that should be said about that, since it's another kettle of fish). But that only applies if they know that their competitors can get more stock. If they know their competitors have no more stock, they're free to dictate their prices as, sooner or later, someone will HAVE to buy from them.

Recently GW has been getting good with customer relations on the modelling side of things, sending in a complaint/photo of botched casts used to get the reply of "Use GW kneedable epoxy" the FLGS owner told me recently about a customer had gotten a box of botched Guard in one of the paint pot kits, GW sent out an apology and a new kit.
Had you been able to prove your LGS shown/sold the kits before release they would probably be shafted for the next few limited releases. Not sure if they could or would do anything about scalping, but they do actually have Customer Service these days. Get proof and make your case, at the worst you'll probably get a letter explaining their position on the matter.

But yeah the resale value of GW products is up to the licensed reseller.. GW may well have caveats on the min/max pricing of their items..

So he may of been well within his rights to sell at a mark up, or he may be in breach of his contract.. the only way to know is to contact GW

Wait, isn't the price on the GW site an advisory price.
How is a retailer ramping up the price of anything he sells due to demand exceeding supply of the product a bad thing ?

 oldzoggy wrote:
Wait, isn't the price on the GW site an advisory price.
How is a retailer ramping up the price of anything he sells due to demand exceeding supply of the product a bad thing ?

First of all it promotes a bad image for the store..


the 2nd is that GW may actually enforce a maximum price point for their products (kinda like Apple does)
As if that retailer is the only local option to physically pick up the item, then it can reflect badly on GW as a whole (not that it is a cheap game to start with)

Meh everyone seems to be ok with it when it happens to happen to groceries, board games, furniture and other products we buy. I have even seen it happen to preconstructed magic decks and magic boosters.

Why should non essential limited edition GW stuff that sells out in minutes be an exception, when we accept it for food water and housing ? The store is not going to get a bad rep for this, op even bought the box.

Pretty sure GW has rules on pricing for retailers

 oldzoggy wrote:
Meh everyone seems to be ok with it when it happens to happen to groceries, board games, furniture and other products we buy. I have even seen it happen to preconstructed magic decks and magic boosters.

Actually most countries have laws, to regulate markets

While they don't have laws on set price, there will be laws against dropping prices too high or low in a short time span

i.e. Australia has the Trade Practices Act. which is enforced by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

 oldzoggy wrote:
Meh everyone seems to be ok with it when it happens to happen to groceries, board games, furniture and other products we buy. I have even seen it happen to preconstructed magic decks and magic boosters.

Why should non essential limited edition GW stuff that sells out in minutes be an exception, when we accept it for food water and housing ? The store is not going to get a bad rep for this, op even bought the box.

We actually had a minor issue here in Ontario about electricity when it turns out some people outside of major city centers were literally choosing between having power (and heat in a canadian winter) and food. It's currently one of the hot topics right now and basically a lot of people are angry with our Premier and the Electric Company.

On the flip side, about two years ago (when our economy tanked and no longer became close to 1:1 with the US currency) it turns out most canadians are too polite to complain about prices, since the companies that kept their higher prices during our growth decided to raise prices "to compensate for the lower dollar" but conveniently "forgot" to lower them when we had a powerful dollar (this is not at GW, surprisingly, but at various food producers and other imported consumer goods).

So yeah, unless our lives are on the line we just silently judge them.

Munster wrote:
OP pays over price, sells bits he doesn't want completely making back his money and then complains about the overprice!

Anyone else see a problem with that sequence of events?

To the OP why is it bad if the store charges a premium and not if you do?

I was actually going to sell everything so that I'd still be down $30, i.e. the rest of the kit for $100, but when people heard he jacked the price up they were upset I had paid that much and all offered to pay more. Also, had he broken open the kits and offered me just what I wanted I would pay a premium, because he'd have trouble selling the stuff no one wants (scouts and boyz being not very popular and ebay being flooded with cheap ones). But he was simply charging more for something that had a set price attached to it and zero risk. Breaking open kits and selling them (at a premium) on ebay for people that just want, say, DV cultists, is very different to selling full box sets on ebay for more than they're worth.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The store is not going to get a bad rep for this, op even bought the box.

But he did get a bad rep for it. I mean, I had someone with me that was just picking up skitarii and warriors and paints to build kill teams and they didn't buy them, we drove to the other store. A guy from his store had talked 4 of us to go to a tournament at his store so they'd have more than the usual 4 players but after I mentioned what he did at the other store two of them said they're not going, so we're all pulling out. One of his remaining 5 was mad about the price hike and asked me for the first time ever the directions to the other store, he's thinking about coming this Friday. He might lose 20% of his remaining players over this.

 kingbobbito wrote:

Munster wrote:
OP pays over price, sells bits he doesn't want completely making back his money and then complains about the overprice!

Anyone else see a problem with that sequence of events?

To the OP why is it bad if the store charges a premium and not if you do?

I was actually going to sell everything so that I'd still be down $30, i.e. the rest of the kit for $100, but when people heard he jacked the price up they were upset I had paid that much and all offered to pay more. Also, had he broken open the kits and offered me just what I wanted I would pay a premium, because he'd have trouble selling the stuff no one wants (scouts and boyz being not very popular and ebay being flooded with cheap ones). But he was simply charging more for something that had a set price attached to it and zero risk. Breaking open kits and selling them (at a premium) on ebay for people that just want, say, DV cultists, is very different to selling full box sets on ebay for more than they're worth.

 oldzoggy wrote:
The store is not going to get a bad rep for this, op even bought the box.

But he did get a bad rep for it. I mean, I had someone with me that was just picking up skitarii and warriors and paints to build kill teams and they didn't buy them, we drove to the other store. A guy from his store had talked 4 of us to go to a tournament at his store so they'd have more than the usual 4 players but after I mentioned what he did at the other store two of them said they're not going, so we're all pulling out. One of his remaining 5 was mad about the price hike and asked me for the first time ever the directions to the other store, he's thinking about coming this Friday. He might lose 20% of his remaining players over this.

Sounds like just you could just leave it alone and he'll put himself out of business.