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puree wrote:
Why is there 'obviously' no need to pint out how retail works, reading some of the above posts it seems like some don't know how it works. So saying 'simply retail' is not explaining anything about why someone disagrees.

Just simple supply and demand can still leave me buying something more expensive from GW rather than cheaper on the internet. I have no 'relationship' nor loyalty to any store, but I still spend money there because I sometimes 'demand' a product now and not in 5 days time and GW (or whomever) can supply that demand. Then there is the shipping, the internet stores i use charge shipping if you don't buy over a certain amount, so unless I want to buy a certain amount it is cheaper to pay more for the product itself at a store, as shipping can be more than the 10-20% discount at smaller amounts (assuming it is not 'bulky'. and subject to shipping cost no matter what).

I have never disputed that stores can charge what they want. This is a philosophical discussion about whether or not they should. There is no debate on whether or not they can price freely based on demand, at least from me. Telling me "how retail works" is either (a) completely misunderstanding or ignoring my point, or (b) being snide.

Amazon prime will deliver within 2 days.
Ebay is vastly cheaper than any store.

I can't claim to understand the markets for things in England. But here in California, USA, I can save a lot of money going online - nearly 40% - and the delivery time of 2-3 days is actually faster, because traffic out here will take me over 1 hour to go 20 miles on a weeknight, which means i can only buy on the weekends at a store. Without loyalty I would never buy from a shop. Ever.

True assuming your retailer knows anything about the hobby is a mistake. Around the turn of 7e I had to let one owner know that his full price 6e rulebooks were unlikely to sell.

 insaniak wrote:

There was nothing snide about my post.

Pointing out a fact is not the same as defending that fact. If I point out that angry people with guns sometimes kill people, that's not a defense of said angry people. It's just pointing out something that happens.

Similarly, pointing out that the retail industry is set up in such a way as to allow retailers to set their own prices on products they sell is not a defense of the retail industry... it's simply pointing out how retail works.

There is no need to 'defend' the store in this case any more than there is a need to defend any of the countless other stores out there right now selling various products for a price higher than the manufacturer's recommendation. This is not some shady business practice only followed by dingy little game stores looking to make a quick buck... It's simply retail.

Just like how my pointing out that a retailer charging above MSRP puts people off isn't an endorsement of "entitlement". Yet that's how it was treated, anyway.

I don't think this is really going anywhere. No one is saying that retailers should be forced to sell at MSRP or that it's wrong for them not to do so, just that they don't personally endorse that kind of practice. It's not entitled to say you don't like your LGS opportunistically charging above retail on one SKU as if suddenly they've adopted the business model of a coin and bouillon dealer.

And yes, there are a lot of things I don't know about retail, and no, I don't often go to physical stores. However, in my personal experience, I have pretty much never seen a straight up retail business adopting some kind of spot price for retail SKU's because of scarcity. Even in cases where there is very high demand and limited supply like during the release of a new GPU generation. Granted, there is MUCH more competition in most other cases, so that might play a significant factor.

I may be wrong about certain details but ultimately I stand by what I said. There is nothing wrong with feeling put off or alienated by a price-gouging LGS, and there's nothing wrong with stating those impressions (except maybe if you buy it anyway and then complain about it, but I digress). Just as there's nothing wrong with that LGS charging whatever they want to for anything on their shelves, even at the expense of good will. I don't really get why that's such a controversial stance but oh well.

 Marmatag wrote:

puree wrote:
Why is there 'obviously' no need to pint out how retail works, reading some of the above posts it seems like some don't know how it works. So saying 'simply retail' is not explaining anything about why someone disagrees.

Just simple supply and demand can still leave me buying something more expensive from GW rather than cheaper on the internet. I have no 'relationship' nor loyalty to any store, but I still spend money there because I sometimes 'demand' a product now and not in 5 days time and GW (or whomever) can supply that demand. Then there is the shipping, the internet stores i use charge shipping if you don't buy over a certain amount, so unless I want to buy a certain amount it is cheaper to pay more for the product itself at a store, as shipping can be more than the 10-20% discount at smaller amounts (assuming it is not 'bulky'. and subject to shipping cost no matter what).

I have never disputed that stores can charge what they want. This is a philosophical discussion about whether or not they should. There is no debate on whether or not they can price freely based on demand, at least from me. Telling me "how retail works" is either (a) completely misunderstanding or ignoring my point, or (b) being snide.

Amazon prime will deliver within 2 days.
Ebay is vastly cheaper than any store.

I can't claim to understand the markets for things in England. But here in California, USA, I can save a lot of money going online - nearly 40% - and the delivery time of 2-3 days is actually faster, because traffic out here will take me over 1 hour to go 20 miles on a weeknight, which means i can only buy on the weekends at a store. Without loyalty I would never buy from a shop. Ever.

Yeah, thats retail for you, people who don't want to pay a premium won't, for various reasons, or they will for various reasons.

I don't see an issue with anything, if they wanna charge that much, and it is in their legal right to do so, there's nothing wrong with it. Don't buy it if you don't like it, buy it if you do. You get to vote with your wallet.

Hey, since this thread is about how a store can quickly lose the loyalty of their customers, I wanted to pop in and loudly declare my loyalty to one of the best game stores I've ever known: The Guard Tower, in Columbus Ohio.

Here's my Shadow War experience:

I heard about the game. From word one I was hooked - all of my armies are more or less themed around Armageddon. Necromunda is one of my favorite games. I only have room for skirmish game play. I've always dreamed of a plastic underhive. So, I was sold.

Next, I saw it sell out on the UK site in minutes. Knowing I'd have a hard time of it, I waited on the website for it to go live in the USA. I misjudged when they put material up (I thought it was noon) and when I checked it again it was 2:30, and it was long gone.

So, I call all of my local game shops, and no one is getting it, or staff already held it back for themselves.

So, I call the Guardtower, and ask if I can put in a preorder for two copies. (Because, if you're going to dream, dream big) They say they'll put me down, but it's unlikely, as they've got a lot of preorders, and the stock will be low. I say thank you, and patiently wait for Saturday.

Saturday, noon, I call. The woman working the counter apologizes, and explains they did sell out, and they're unable to fulfill the preorders. I say I understand and thank her, because by now every 40k podcast I listen to is lamenting they couldn't get copies. So, time for me to wait for the book, and drool at pictures of the terrain.

Two weeks later, I get a phone call. It's the Guardtower, and they want to know if I'm ever going to come pick up my copies of Shadow War Armageddon, because others would certainly like to buy it. It turns out, when I called in before there was miscommunication, and in fact they had both copies sitting behind the counter, and had been fending off buyer inquiries and holding it for me even as I failed to show up day after day.

On Tuesday I finally claimed them, two shiny copies of a game almost no one can get their hands on. And, as they rang me up, they gave me the standard 20% discount.

Never have I felt so lucky, to have the privilege of buying expensive plastic models.

Oggthrok wrote:
Never have I felt so lucky, to have the privilege of buying expensive plastic models.

I will shout out to "J&J Cards and Collectables" in Waterloo Canada.
It is absolutely insane how they get ahold of stuff and keep the prices low.
They have no gaming space, that is the only legitimate complaint.
If I call up ahead of a release and ask for a reserve, they do it every time and have no issues waiting two weeks for pickup.
It helps their main tabletop gaming guy seems to remember everyone and knows who reliably picks up their stuff.
Actually going there tonight, wonder if they still have SWA kits...

Oggthrok wrote:
Hey, since this thread is about how a store can quickly lose the loyalty of their customers, I wanted to pop in and loudly declare my loyalty to one of the best game stores I've ever known: The Guard Tower, in Columbus Ohio.

Here's my Shadow War experience:

I heard about the game. From word one I was hooked - all of my armies are more or less themed around Armageddon. Necromunda is one of my favorite games. I only have room for skirmish game play. I've always dreamed of a plastic underhive. So, I was sold.

Next, I saw it sell out on the UK site in minutes. Knowing I'd have a hard time of it, I waited on the website for it to go live in the USA. I misjudged when they put material up (I thought it was noon) and when I checked it again it was 2:30, and it was long gone.

So, I call all of my local game shops, and no one is getting it, or staff already held it back for themselves.

So, I call the Guardtower, and ask if I can put in a preorder for two copies. (Because, if you're going to dream, dream big) They say they'll put me down, but it's unlikely, as they've got a lot of preorders, and the stock will be low. I say thank you, and patiently wait for Saturday.

Saturday, noon, I call. The woman working the counter apologizes, and explains they did sell out, and they're unable to fulfill the preorders. I say I understand and thank her, because by now every 40k podcast I listen to is lamenting they couldn't get copies. So, time for me to wait for the book, and drool at pictures of the terrain.

Two weeks later, I get a phone call. It's the Guardtower, and they want to know if I'm ever going to come pick up my copies of Shadow War Armageddon, because others would certainly like to buy it. It turns out, when I called in before there was miscommunication, and in fact they had both copies sitting behind the counter, and had been fending off buyer inquiries and holding it for me even as I failed to show up day after day.

On Tuesday I finally claimed them, two shiny copies of a game almost no one can get their hands on. And, as they rang me up, they gave me the standard 20% discount.

Never have I felt so lucky, to have the privilege of buying expensive plastic models.

See, it's hard to argue that when you treat your customers this way instead of the way the OP's LGS treated him, you're going to make them happier than you would have otherwise. As a result they're going to remember how well you treated them and how awesome your business is and they're going to come back, as well as spread the good word on places like this. Sit on top of units like a miserly dragon and price gouge, and they're going to have the opposite reaction. It's pretty simple.

If we're doing shoutouts:

The GW in Boulder Colorado is awesome, I was able to place a preorder before they officially went up for preorder, ensuring me a copy

Having been to the Guardtower during a couple trips for work, I can honestly say they're awesome!!! Hell, I've chilled and played Kings of War there with porkuslime from here!! One of the better stores I've been to while on work trips.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
If we're doing shoutouts:

The GW in Boulder Colorado is awesome, I was able to place a preorder before they officially went up for preorder, ensuring me a copy

The one in Denver is pretty cool too, if only because of the Manager, Dave. He really goes out of his way to help everyone get what they want as cheaply and efficiently as possible and encourages you to do as much hobby stuff as you need to in store with his supplies. You can tell it's working out because there are usually a few people in there playing and painting, and they all buy stuff from him just to keep it going. I traded for most of my army but I bought DV from him and I'll buy other stuff like a case and a Dark Shroud from there in the future just because he's a cool guy.

 Luciferian wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
If we're doing shoutouts:

The GW in Boulder Colorado is awesome, I was able to place a preorder before they officially went up for preorder, ensuring me a copy

The one in Denver is pretty cool too, if only because of the Manager, Dave. He really goes out of his way to help everyone get what they want as cheaply and efficiently as possible and encourages you to do as much hobby stuff as you need to in store with his supplies. You can tell it's working out because there are usually a few people in there playing and painting, and they all buy stuff from him just to keep it going. I traded for most of my army but I bought DV from him and I'll buy other stuff like a case and a Dark Shroud from there in the future just because he's a cool guy.

I've heard some good things about Denver, I've only been up their once as I live in south boulder, but it seems pretty nice.

 Luciferian wrote:

See, it's hard to argue that when you treat your customers this way instead of the way the OP's LGS treated him, you're going to make them happier than you would have otherwise. As a result they're going to remember how well you treated them and how awesome your business is and they're going to come back, as well as spread the good word on places like this. Sit on top of units like a miserly dragon and price gouge, and they're going to have the opposite reaction. It's pretty simple.

Absolutely - I've been a loyal customer of The Guardtower nearly 20 years now, from snot-nosed teen days, to making time to drive an hour back now that I'm nearly forty, and they remain the best I've seen. Some of the staff have been there the whole time too, and they remain incredibly knowledgeable about what's going on in the industry. If they have a product known for packing issues they advise you of it at the register and let you open it on the spot before you pay to ensure you're really getting what you're paying for. They clear slow-moving inventory regularly with an "unloved" games section in the back that offers heavy discounts. The stock is incredibly reliable.

One time, I pre-ordered the Deluxe Ogre edition, since I'd heard rumors Steve Jackson they was going to make one. I skipped the kickstarter, and over the years forgot about it. Six years later, I get a phone call - my preorder was ready. They kept accurate records of preorders for a product that didn't yet exist for six years.

That said, I do live quite a distance away now, and have two game stores in my town. Whenever I can, I give them my business now. They're not as good as the Guardtower, they don't offer the discounts of the Guardtower. But, they're the local community, and that means if I want to be able to buy GW paints any day of the week on demand, I also need to make sure those highschoolers playing Magic on Friday's have a place to do it.

Now, if GW would just make a zillion more Armageddon boxes, so locals would be excited about it, and I would have easier access to opponents...

 Talizvar wrote:

Oggthrok wrote:
Never have I felt so lucky, to have the privilege of buying expensive plastic models.

I will shout out to "J&J Cards and Collectables" in Waterloo Canada.
It is absolutely insane how they get ahold of stuff and keep the prices low.
They have no gaming space, that is the only legitimate complaint.
If I call up ahead of a release and ask for a reserve, they do it every time and have no issues waiting two weeks for pickup.
It helps their main tabletop gaming guy seems to remember everyone and knows who reliably picks up their stuff.
Actually going there tonight, wonder if they still have SWA kits...

I love this store! I used to date a girl who lived in Waterloo, and she told me about the place so I'd have a nerd shop to visit while staying with her. I haven't been back in years, but I'm glad to hear it's still going strong.