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I think he looks awesome, despite all the "sigmarines are stupid and junk!" moaning. So much cooler than Commander Meatloaf, who absolutely never needed to exist in the first place, at least this is a cool humanized Stormcast, rather than a faceless gold minion. He would definitely find a place in my warband if it weren't for him probably being 35 friggin' dollars for a single figure like the latest Lord Celestant. At least some of the older figures came with a Gryph-hound for that price. I especially love his moustache, it's like the Deathwatch head I used on one of my all-unhelmed warband:

I actually really like him. The working-coat, the arms without armour, etc...

But as Kanluwen, after the other three Malignan Portents heroes being from neglected factions, I had my hopes up for a non-stormcast Order Hero.

Alas, I suppose that was very naiveté.

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Better than more chaos, we've been drowning in spiky nonsense for the last year and a half.

You understand these are the four GRAND ALLIANCE Champions, right?

And that Chaos is one of the Grand Alliances? Stormcast aren't.

Are you aware that Stormcasts are in the ORDER GRAND ALLIANCE? So it's reasonable that they would be the herald?

Seriously, there were so many better things to sputter about with that comment, I'm severely disappointed.

You commented that the Stormcast was "better than more Chaos".
Chaos is a Grand Alliance. Stormcast aren't. Stormcast certainly can be the Harbinger for Order, but so could an Elf, Dwarf, Sylvaneth, Seraphon, or a vanilla human.

Am I disappointed it's a Stormcast? Absolutely.
I'm of the opinion that we could have had a far cooler model if we'd done a Dwarf, a Sylvaneth, a Seraphon, an Elf, or a vanilla human.
Part of what has made the other three so interesting and seemingly so popular is the fact that they're not what we've been inundated with. They weren't Orruks for Destruction or Ghouls for Death or a plate-clad monster for Chaos.

More than that if this is the guy we have to be stuck with? I think it's a disappointment that the model doesn't jibe with the fluff.

Lord-Ordinators have a particularly sacred duty – where the other Stormcast Eternals clear the way for Sigmar’s kingdoms, it’s these warrior-engineers that oversee the construction of new cities, walls and Stormkeeps, working in tandem with Dispossessed work gangs to create wonders unseen since the Age of Myth. These warriors also observe the movements of the stars in the heavens above the Mortal Realms, using combinations of mathematics, science and seer-craft to determine the future. With a great evil rising, the Lord-Ordinators have been dispersed among the armies of Order so that they can help prepare them for what is to come…

Imagine this guy based in such a way that he has rubble strewn around him, pallets of bricks and sheafs of paper to show that he's not just a fighter but a builder. Have his hammer supporting a sketchbook while he looks as though he's surveying the area to establish a new fort.

Models can tell a story. All this model tells a story of is a dude who hits things with hammers.

True. I like seeing other races for a change, but at least this guy is a cool looking Stormcast character, rather than some of the bland ones that can practically be made with existing kits. At least this guy has cool unique details, like the workman's gloves and bare arms.

Sure, this is a dude that hits things with hammers. Even a Stormcast who is a builder and architect still has to get his hands dirty when his worksite is attacked. Its not like models on the battlefield are supposed to represent figures in the middle of a boring workday.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I think he looks awesome, despite all the "sigmarines are stupid and junk!" moaning. So much cooler than Commander Meatloaf, who absolutely never needed to exist in the first place, at least this is a cool humanized Stormcast, rather than a faceless gold minion. He would definitely find a place in my warband if it weren't for him probably being 35 friggin' dollars for a single figure like the latest Lord Celestant. At least some of the older figures came with a Gryph-hound for that price. I especially love his moustache, it's like the Deathwatch head I used on one of my all-unhelmed warband:

Sureheart's a named character, hence the pricetag.
Which was $2 more than the original Lord-Celestant with the hammer and sword while wearing the hammercloak.

I disagree with you on this being a "humanized" Stormcast. He just looks like a Stormcast LARPing as an engineer. There's a lot of things that could have been done to make him appear more humanized than just "He's not wearing a helmet! HUMANIZED!".

zamerion wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/01/malign-portents-orders-champion-revealed/


What better way to start the year than with more stormcast!

Stormcast though he may be, he is the most awesome Stormcast ever. Easily makes my list of favourite GW miniatures!
That really makes up for the disappointment of not getting a non-Stormcast hero.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
True. I like seeing other races for a change, but at least this guy is a cool looking Stormcast character, rather than some of the bland ones that can practically be made with existing kits. At least this guy has cool unique details, like the workman's gloves and bare arms.

I disagree with you on that. He looks like he's someone just having fiddled around in CAD with resources and called it a day.

All you would have needed to make this guy, IMO, is the bared arms from one of the Khorne characters, a bit of sculpting putty for the 'gloves'(which still have the gauntlets from the Stormcast armor capping them off even!) and the quilted tabard and you'd have had something extremely similar.

Personally? I liked Sureheart better than this guy, despite Sureheart having an awful head on him. At least that can be removed or swapped out with a bit of effort.

Order will suffer the 40k Imperium curse. You can't have a campaing/event/etc... featuring Order, without the Posterboys being the face of the faction.

The other three orders have much more room for balance between their subfactions.

Really disapointed with the new Order character.

The idea is fine but why did he need to be a Stormcast - they are almost exclusively focussed on fighting - if he was human or Elf, or dwarf he could have been really intersting - a mortal directing the construction of the cities etc - but no he has to be a Stormcast.

The model is not bad but as otehrs have said - There is virtuallly nothing that matches the fluff.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I think he looks awesome, despite all the "sigmarines are stupid and junk!" moaning. So much cooler than Commander Meatloaf, who absolutely never needed to exist in the first place, at least this is a cool humanized Stormcast, rather than a faceless gold minion. He would definitely find a place in my warband if it weren't for him probably being 35 friggin' dollars for a single figure like the latest Lord Celestant. At least some of the older figures came with a Gryph-hound for that price. I especially love his moustache, it's like the Deathwatch head I used on one of my all-unhelmed warband:

Sureheart's a named character, hence the pricetag.
Which was $2 more than the original Lord-Celestant with the hammer and sword while wearing the hammercloak.

I disagree with you on this being a "humanized" Stormcast. He just looks like a Stormcast LARPing as an engineer. There's a lot of things that could have been done to make him appear more humanized than just "He's not wearing a helmet! HUMANIZED!".

Stormcast are human.

JSG wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I think he looks awesome, despite all the "sigmarines are stupid and junk!" moaning. So much cooler than Commander Meatloaf, who absolutely never needed to exist in the first place, at least this is a cool humanized Stormcast, rather than a faceless gold minion. He would definitely find a place in my warband if it weren't for him probably being 35 friggin' dollars for a single figure like the latest Lord Celestant. At least some of the older figures came with a Gryph-hound for that price. I especially love his moustache, it's like the Deathwatch head I used on one of my all-unhelmed warband:

Sureheart's a named character, hence the pricetag.
Which was $2 more than the original Lord-Celestant with the hammer and sword while wearing the hammercloak.

I disagree with you on this being a "humanized" Stormcast. He just looks like a Stormcast LARPing as an engineer. There's a lot of things that could have been done to make him appear more humanized than just "He's not wearing a helmet! HUMANIZED!".

Stormcast are human.

Stormcast Eternals are to Free Peoples as much as Space Marines are to the Astra Militarum.

JSG wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I think he looks awesome, despite all the "sigmarines are stupid and junk!" moaning. So much cooler than Commander Meatloaf, who absolutely never needed to exist in the first place, at least this is a cool humanized Stormcast, rather than a faceless gold minion. He would definitely find a place in my warband if it weren't for him probably being 35 friggin' dollars for a single figure like the latest Lord Celestant. At least some of the older figures came with a Gryph-hound for that price. I especially love his moustache, it's like the Deathwatch head I used on one of my all-unhelmed warband:

Sureheart's a named character, hence the pricetag.
Which was $2 more than the original Lord-Celestant with the hammer and sword while wearing the hammercloak.

I disagree with you on this being a "humanized" Stormcast. He just looks like a Stormcast LARPing as an engineer. There's a lot of things that could have been done to make him appear more humanized than just "He's not wearing a helmet! HUMANIZED!".

Stormcast are human.

When AegisGrimm is saying "humanized", he's referring to them being made to look more like humans rather than the helmeted deathmask style of look they had before.

We've had mention of Aelf Stormcast at least once but given that they're basically all reforged to be similar who knows if we've actually seen one in model form. Some of the names certainly seem kind of like stereotypical Elf names from high fantasy.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I'd love to compare this guy with a normal Sigmarine and see if his mighty biceps fits into normal arm armor. My guess is no.

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Better than more chaos, we've been drowning in spiky nonsense for the last year and a half.

You understand these are the four GRAND ALLIANCE Champions, right?

And that Chaos is one of the Grand Alliances? Stormcast aren't.

Might as well be. Order hero is a Fantasy Space Marine (big surprise) who happened to be missing a Fantasy Techmarine (a gap which is now filled - big surprise). That's GW for you.

It's a gap which didn't exist.

It also runs contrary to the other Grand Alliances.
Destruction got a Grot; nobody saw that coming.
Chaos got the Darkoath War-Queen; again nobody saw that coming.
Death got the Knight of Shrouds; a way of fleshing out a range that nobody really thought anything of(the Spirits).

I'm annoyed but at the very least maybe the reason we got this boring bit of blargh is they've got a big release finally fething planned for something that isn't humans or dwarfs.

I seem to recall a siege themed chapter in the battle tome. Means they needed an engineer eventually, if I do in fact remember correctly.

But regardless, they're Fantasy Marines. They get the same archetypes Marines have. When all the generic Sigmarines GW are released, do you think GW will stop there and finally give other factions some love? Nope. They'll just focus on Sigmarines dressed in nightgowns and wolf pelts instead.

For the record, I'm completely with you. I believe I said so earlier in this thread I would very much like a human engineer (yeah, like human human, not Sigmarine human - they're not the same. The only human model we got was the priest from Silver Tower, and he hardly fits in with the Empire models, even with the Sigmar cheerleaders of old), or for that matter anything that isn't a Sigmarine. But that's simply not realistic. You can't compare Order with the other Grand Alliances because none of the others contain the posterboy faction that fulfills the same role as Marines in 40k. Doesn't matter what anybody saw or didn't see coming for Chaos, Death and Destruction. Order has Sigmarines and follows its own rules. Sadly.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Really disapointed with the new Order character.

The idea is fine but why did he need to be a Stormcast - they are almost exclusively focussed on fighting - if he was human or Elf, or dwarf he could have been really intersting - a mortal directing the construction of the cities etc - but no he has to be a Stormcast.

The model is not bad but as otehrs have said - There is virtuallly nothing that matches the fluff.

As Galas said above, it's the Marine curse. By GW's decree it has to be Sigmarines. They want the best selling posterboy faction that makes 40k so successful in their fantasy game as well and they'll make it happen no matter what.

Really it's been all but explcitily announced when they removed their Marine statue in Nottingham and replaced him with a Sigmarine. that's a statement right there.

 Geifer wrote:

I seem to recall a siege themed chapter in the battle tome. Means they needed an engineer eventually, if I do in fact remember correctly.

There's not a Stormhost themed for sieges, but there used to be a "battalion" that focused on sieges and consisted of a Lord-Relictor and a bunch of Retributors and had the ability to destroy scenery pieces.
I don't see it in my Stormcast book at the moment.

There is the Storm Vortex Garrison which is the kind of thing where this guy would have already been gone after having established it.

I should add that this guy has been in the table of organization. He's definitely in there.

But regardless, they're Fantasy Marines. They get the same archetypes Marines have. When all the generic Sigmarines GW are released, do you think GW will stop there and finally give other factions some love? Nope. They'll just focus on Sigmarines dressed in nightgowns and wolf pelts instead.

I think this is a bit fallacious. We've seen a few new factions for Order rather than just "Sigmarines dressed in night gowns"(we've already got ones in wolf pelts--that's the Vanguard Chamber... ) but at the same time we saw GW shrink what was pretty likely going to be 3 factions (Stormcast Eternals->Extremis[Dracoth and Stardrake]->Vanguard[Hunters, Raptors, Gryph-Riders]) into one faction instead.

For the record, I'm completely with you. I believe I said so earlier in this thread I would very much like a human engineer (yeah, like human human, not Sigmarine human - they're not the same. The only human model we got was the priest from Silver Tower, and he hardly fits in with the Empire models, even with the Sigmar cheerleaders of old), or for that matter anything that isn't a Sigmarine.

The War Priest Excelsior actually fits in fairly well with the Warrior-Priests of Sigmar that were released in more recent years.

But that's simply not realistic. You can't compare Order with the other Grand Alliances because none of the others contain the posterboy faction that fulfills the same role as Marines in 40k. Doesn't matter what anybody saw or didn't see coming for Chaos, Death and Destruction. Order has Sigmarines and follows its own rules. Sadly.

Destruction has Orcs and Chaos has the Chaos Warrior. Most of Chaos' stuff is built around/based off of the old plate-clad fighters that were the staple of Warriors/Hordes of Chaos armies.

Death is a bit harder to stake down() to one theme since they have a few different things going on. We have the Spirit Hosts, the Skeletal hordes that parody mankind and its armies, the shambling zombie hordes, and the flesh-eating ghouls that believe themselves to be mighty heroes of old.

That's just my opinion though. When I look at Chaos, I see the Chaos Warrior being 'adapted' for Nurgle as the Blightking and the Blood Warrior for Khorne. I see it being eschewed for Tzeentch since "plate-clad wizards" isn't a common fantasy trope.
When I look at Destruction, I think of a mighty Orc Warboss conquering and binding tribes of giants, trolls, ogres, and goblins to his Orcish horde. We even got something like that in Ironjawz where they can take Giants and Ogres in some of their Battalions, right?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Really disapointed with the new Order character.

The idea is fine but why did he need to be a Stormcast - they are almost exclusively focussed on fighting - if he was human or Elf, or dwarf he could have been really intersting - a mortal directing the construction of the cities etc - but no he has to be a Stormcast.

The model is not bad but as otehrs have said - There is virtuallly nothing that matches the fluff.

As Galas said above, it's the Marine curse. By GW's decree it has to be Sigmarines. They want the best selling posterboy faction that makes 40k so successful in their fantasy game as well and they'll make it happen no matter what.

Really it's been all but explcitily announced when they removed their Marine statue in Nottingham and replaced him with a Sigmarine. that's a statement right there.

And as mentioned, they did a good job with the other Grand Alliances. This one was going to have blowback no matter what I think("What, an Aelf? God why wasn't it a Dwarf!" "What, a Dwarf? Why wasn't it an Aelf!" but I think for me it's a combination of things really bumming me out on this.

1) It's another Stormcast hero type.
2) He's basically just doing Stormcast-y things. He's mentioned as being more of a scholar/engineer than "merely a warrior". He's an exceedingly missed opportunity for a cool scenic piece that really represents the Grand Alliance rather than the specific subfaction he's pulled from.

Well, I might not play Sigmar, but I can see at least two models I’ll be getting this year already. The Warqueen and this guy are just such lovely “roleplay” characters (barbarian and paladin/cleric) that I might need them in my collection just because.

Humanized was probably not the best word, but "personalized' isn't the best either. I meant I like how some of these new Stormcast characters, like Neave and the Shadespire leader, are more than just faceless warrior #342. It makes them better than just being Space Marine analogues. I want Stormcast personalities who can be warrior-paladins that could more believably be seen conversing in some productive fashion with someone on the streets of Hammerhal, rather than being Space Marines which at their most fluff-loyal are sociopathic monks that really don't think like humans anymore to really relate to them and would just brush past.

I could actually see this new guy speaking with other 'lesser' races during peacetime. Hell, at first he reminded me of a Stormcast Blacksmith, not Stormcast Foreman.

I also liked the original fluff of how Stormcast are made from other races (even if only Elves and Dwarves really work). I even made an attempt at an Elven Stormcast in my warband with an Eldar head and characterful posing.:



But this gets a bit off topic. Ideally, I would have liked to see the 'Heralds' each being the forerunning character to represent the image of a new official race coming (back) into the AoS universe. Grots, Aelves, etc.

.

The most exciting part for me is the Skullvane Manse in the video. So GW will be re-releasing those sweet OOP kits!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

I seem to recall a siege themed chapter in the battle tome. Means they needed an engineer eventually, if I do in fact remember correctly.

There's not a Stormhost themed for sieges, but there used to be a "battalion" that focused on sieges and consisted of a Lord-Relictor and a bunch of Retributors and had the ability to destroy scenery pieces.
I don't see it in my Stormcast book at the moment.

There is the Storm Vortex Garrison which is the kind of thing where this guy would have already been gone after having established it.

I should add that this guy has been in the table of organization. He's definitely in there.

I see I wrote chapter when I meant chamber, as in Extremis and Vanguard. But you would know better than me. I don't own the book and only looked through someone else's copy

But yeah, that's what I meant. They've laid Sigmarine organization down in diagram form. I thought I saw something siege related in there.

 Kanluwen wrote:

But regardless, they're Fantasy Marines. They get the same archetypes Marines have. When all the generic Sigmarines GW are released, do you think GW will stop there and finally give other factions some love? Nope. They'll just focus on Sigmarines dressed in nightgowns and wolf pelts instead.

I think this is a bit fallacious. We've seen a few new factions for Order rather than just "Sigmarines dressed in night gowns"(we've already got ones in wolf pelts--that's the Vanguard Chamber... ) but at the same time we saw GW shrink what was pretty likely going to be 3 factions (Stormcast Eternals->Extremis[Dracoth and Stardrake]->Vanguard[Hunters, Raptors, Gryph-Riders]) into one faction instead.

It's not literally all Sigmarines all the time just like it's not literally all Marines all the time. We eventually got Mechanicus for the Imperium, for instance. But how many plastic Sisters kits did we get in last fifteen years? The Tactical Squad alone got made and remade three times since 3rd ed, and depending on your view a fourth time as Intercessors last year.

I see putting the different chambers in the same battle tome as no different than putting both Mechanicus armies in the same codex - an end to the practice of splitting up armies into smaller factions to sell more rule books, that is removing a division decided on by the sales department, not the creatives. Well, at least I want to believe that the actual rules and background writers had nothing to do with splitting up factions, but whatever. I see Vanguard and Extremis as the same as 1st and 10th companies in Codex Space Marines, something with a specialist rule but still part of the overall, generic faction (with Hammers of Sigmar doing their best Ultramarines impression and staying the blue and gold posterboys forever).

We really aren't there yet with Sigmarines, but think about Marines. Did we need a Blood Angels Tactical Squad? Wouldn't a Tactical Squad with Blood Angels upgrade sprue have sufficed. Same with Space Wolves, which actually started out in 3rd ed with exactly that upgrade sprue to turn the shiny new plastic Marines into proper Space Wolves. I think GW has settled on not splitting up factions anymore they way they did (see Mechanicus getting mashed together, or Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle respectively in Age of Sigmar) so what we get in the near future will be for all Sigmarines. Just like I expect that not all of the Grand Alliance Death factions will survive as their own thing because let's face it, have of them simply aren't functional on their own. Once everything is shrunk into place, I doubt GW can resist fanning out into variants against. I expect Sigmarines to be at the center of this.

 Kanluwen wrote:

For the record, I'm completely with you. I believe I said so earlier in this thread I would very much like a human engineer (yeah, like human human, not Sigmarine human - they're not the same. The only human model we got was the priest from Silver Tower, and he hardly fits in with the Empire models, even with the Sigmar cheerleaders of old), or for that matter anything that isn't a Sigmarine.

The War Priest Excelsior actually fits in fairly well with the Warrior-Priests of Sigmar that were released in more recent years.

Well, agree to disagree. He's a head taller and twice as broad as the plastic priest from from the War Altar. I'd happily use the old model alongside my Empire soldiers. The new one just looks ridiculous in comparison. But that may just be me.

 Kanluwen wrote:

But that's simply not realistic. You can't compare Order with the other Grand Alliances because none of the others contain the posterboy faction that fulfills the same role as Marines in 40k. Doesn't matter what anybody saw or didn't see coming for Chaos, Death and Destruction. Order has Sigmarines and follows its own rules. Sadly.

Destruction has Orcs and Chaos has the Chaos Warrior. Most of Chaos' stuff is built around/based off of the old plate-clad fighters that were the staple of Warriors/Hordes of Chaos armies.

Death is a bit harder to stake down() to one theme since they have a few different things going on. We have the Spirit Hosts, the Skeletal hordes that parody mankind and its armies, the shambling zombie hordes, and the flesh-eating ghouls that believe themselves to be mighty heroes of old.

That's just my opinion though. When I look at Chaos, I see the Chaos Warrior being 'adapted' for Nurgle as the Blightking and the Blood Warrior for Khorne. I see it being eschewed for Tzeentch since "plate-clad wizards" isn't a common fantasy trope.
When I look at Destruction, I think of a mighty Orc Warboss conquering and binding tribes of giants, trolls, ogres, and goblins to his Orcish horde. We even got something like that in Ironjawz where they can take Giants and Ogres in some of their Battalions, right?

My way of looking at it:

Destruction could claim orcs because the only Destruction god to prominently focus is Gorkamorka. Goblins are too runty to have any say in what's going on in the super epic epicness of Age of Sigmar, and Ogres - honestly I have no idea how they feature any more as a force of nature than they did before. Haven't read anything about them, actually. So yeah, no doubt the clear focus is on orc. It doesn't help they they were the only ones to receive new models so far and that Destruction as a faction isn't expansive - just Ogres and Orcs and Goblins mashed into trash alliance 2. But since the point of Destruction is to go waaaghing from one end of the world to the other, I don't think there's any prime candidate for a herald. Methods vary, but the goal is the same.

Trash alliance 1 didn't even get to retain its second faction because it's oh so much more fun to squat my beloved Tomb Kings, but that just as an aside. I does give me the impression though that it's pretty irrelevant how what remains is split up into mini-factions because they all follow the Vampire Counts aesthetic and go together no matter what, and at the end of the day it's all about Nagash anyway. He's in charge and whoever is chosen as his herald, it's going to answer to him and could even if it was not styled to go with Vampire Counts still tie in with his look (Similar to Sauron/Mouth of Sauron). Turns out if it's just another flying bed sheet (this time with an exciting winged helmet! Woo!), but I wouldn't feel any different if it represented another mini faction. It's still representative of the will of Nagash.

Chaos is the four gods and and since Archaon is their chosen Champion, sure, Chaos Warriors it is. But for me that's just at the head. I think Archaon doesn't care how he gets what he wants, just that he does. Which leaves the choice of herald fairly open, but unaligned is the most diplomatic solution because of the tensions between the four powers. As such the Darkoath Queen actually makes a lot of sense. Archaon can't chose any aligned champion without risking the allegiance of the others and he cannot very well trust a rat. I think Chaos is the most pinned down on the herald choice because of this.

Order could go either way. Either everyone agrees that Sigmar is cool and they work for a common goal, in which case anything goes but because the focus is on Sigmar, it's going to be at least one of his devoted if not one of his finest, or they're still struggling with the break-up of the alliance of gods in which case Sigmar would be a fool to trust anyone but his chosen warriors. I think the Order alliance is very much built around Sigmar being the protagonist the name Age of Sigmar suggests. Then you add the meta knowledge that GW wants to push Sigmarines and I have a hard time seeing any other choice.

 Geifer wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

I seem to recall a siege themed chapter in the battle tome. Means they needed an engineer eventually, if I do in fact remember correctly.

There's not a Stormhost themed for sieges, but there used to be a "battalion" that focused on sieges and consisted of a Lord-Relictor and a bunch of Retributors and had the ability to destroy scenery pieces.
I don't see it in my Stormcast book at the moment.

There is the Storm Vortex Garrison which is the kind of thing where this guy would have already been gone after having established it.

I should add that this guy has been in the table of organization. He's definitely in there.

I see I wrote chapter when I meant chamber, as in Extremis and Vanguard. But you would know better than me. I don't own the book and only looked through someone else's copy

But yeah, that's what I meant. They've laid Sigmarine organization down in diagram form. I thought I saw something siege related in there.

Nothing siege related as far as I've seen. We have 4 "unopened Chambers" called Sacrosanct, Ruination, Covenant, and Logister.
It looks like we're seeing the start of the Logister Chamber's opening here Ruination could I guess be relating to sieges/tearing down fortresses but there's no details there as far as I can tell.

It's not literally all Sigmarines all the time just like it's not literally all Marines all the time. We eventually got Mechanicus for the Imperium, for instance. But how many plastic Sisters kits did we get in last fifteen years? The Tactical Squad alone got made and remade three times since 3rd ed, and depending on your view a fourth time as Intercessors last year.

I see putting the different chambers in the same battle tome as no different than putting both Mechanicus armies in the same codex - an end to the practice of splitting up armies into smaller factions to sell more rule books, that is removing a division decided on by the sales department, not the creatives. Well, at least I want to believe that the actual rules and background writers had nothing to do with splitting up factions, but whatever. I see Vanguard and Extremis as the same as 1st and 10th companies in Codex Space Marines, something with a specialist rule but still part of the overall, generic faction (with Hammers of Sigmar doing their best Ultramarines impression and staying the blue and gold posterboys forever).

See, I actually disagree with you on that. My feelings on Mechanicus are well known so I won't tread that ground again but I do think that the combined books ends up being detrimental rather than beneficial. I wasn't planning on touching Stormcast until the Vanguard stuff came out. I was excited for them to get a book of their own...and then when they didn't? I left it alone to work on something else until this Vanguard Chamber boxed set came out since the stuff couldn't even really be used where I wanted it to be(You can't run the Lord Aquilor on his Gryph-Charger for Skirmish and Gryph-Hounds for whatever reason aren't part of the Vanguard Chamber except with this new warscroll battalion from the box).

I can't imagine I'm the only person who feels like a book where everything is just shoved in is less interesting than a fully fleshed out smaller book for a faction that interests you.

We really aren't there yet with Sigmarines, but think about Marines. Did we need a Blood Angels Tactical Squad? Wouldn't a Tactical Squad with Blood Angels upgrade sprue have sufficed. Same with Space Wolves, which actually started out in 3rd ed with exactly that upgrade sprue to turn the shiny new plastic Marines into proper Space Wolves.

To be fair, when we got the Blood Angels Tactical Squad? It was also the same point in time that it was becoming clear that they didn't want to just "sell an upgrade sprue". Several of the Space Wolf kits use up old stock which is why they have been left alone(the Devastator kit they come with is the pre-Grav Cannon one and the Skyclaws came with the previous iteration of the Assault Squad too) for the most part.

You're right that the Blood Angels Tactical Squad wasn't a "needed" thing, but it didn't hurt anyone too badly by it happening.

I think GW has settled on not splitting up factions anymore they way they did (see Mechanicus getting mashed together, or Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle respectively in Age of Sigmar) so what we get in the near future will be for all Sigmarines. Just like I expect that not all of the Grand Alliance Death factions will survive as their own thing because let's face it, have of them simply aren't functional on their own. Once everything is shrunk into place, I doubt GW can resist fanning out into variants against. I expect Sigmarines to be at the center of this.

Not gonna lie, I hope you're right. I want Mechanicus with two books so I can run pure Skitarii without having people telling me to "quit whining" and just play "counts as" with a techpriest.

I think Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle were ones which benefit from the combined approach but that comes from the setup of the lore for the followers of Chaos for AoS. A Greater Daemon leading mortal followers into battle is something that totally works there versus 40k where Daemons are split into their own book for the Greater Daemons.

I expect, personally, that you're right to a point with Death but I think it will also be possible that we get books not unlike the Chaos ones themed around a specific faction and component parts.

Well, agree to disagree. He's a head taller and twice as broad as the plastic priest from from the War Altar. I'd happily use the old model alongside my Empire soldiers. The new one just looks ridiculous in comparison. But that may just be me.

He's a head taller and twice as broad but it's also mentioned in the Silver Tower stuff that he was a giant of a man.

It's like saying that Hector Rex doesn't fit with the other Inquisitors for 40k because he's huge.
I'll totally agree that if this was meant to be the case, he should have been given an actual name instead of being generic.

My way of looking at it:

Destruction could claim orcs because the only Destruction god to prominently focus is Gorkamorka. Goblins are too runty to have any say in what's going on in the super epic epicness of Age of Sigmar, and Ogres - honestly I have no idea how they feature any more as a force of nature than they did before. Haven't read anything about them, actually. So yeah, no doubt the clear focus is on orc. It doesn't help they they were the only ones to receive new models so far and that Destruction as a faction isn't expansive - just Ogres and Orcs and Goblins mashed into trash alliance 2. But since the point of Destruction is to go waaaghing from one end of the world to the other, I don't think there's any prime candidate for a herald. Methods vary, but the goal is the same.

Trash alliance 1 didn't even get to retain its second faction because it's oh so much more fun to squat my beloved Tomb Kings, but that just as an aside. I does give me the impression though that it's pretty irrelevant how what remains is split up into mini-factions because they all follow the Vampire Counts aesthetic and go together no matter what, and at the end of the day it's all about Nagash anyway. He's in charge and whoever is chosen as his herald, it's going to answer to him and could even if it was not styled to go with Vampire Counts still tie in with his look (Similar to Sauron/Mouth of Sauron). Turns out if it's just another flying bed sheet (this time with an exciting winged helmet! Woo!), but I wouldn't feel any different if it represented another mini faction. It's still representative of the will of Nagash.

I can understand your gripe about the Tomb Kings but I will note that there was a faction of Undead that seemed very similar appearing early on in an audio drama for AoS.
I would like to see a bit more of a different aesthetic for Death but I think that as it stands right now it works out well.

Chaos is the four gods and and since Archaon is their chosen Champion, sure, Chaos Warriors it is. But for me that's just at the head. I think Archaon doesn't care how he gets what he wants, just that he does. Which leaves the choice of herald fairly open, but unaligned is the most diplomatic solution because of the tensions between the four powers. As such the Darkoath Queen actually makes a lot of sense. Archaon can't chose any aligned champion without risking the allegiance of the others and he cannot very well trust a rat. I think Chaos is the most pinned down on the herald choice because of this.

Sure, but so would someone done up in the style of Krom the Conqueror or any Chaos hero in Chaos armor.

Order could go either way. Either everyone agrees that Sigmar is cool and they work for a common goal, in which case anything goes but because the focus is on Sigmar, it's going to be at least one of his devoted if not one of his finest, or they're still struggling with the break-up of the alliance of gods in which case Sigmar would be a fool to trust anyone but his chosen warriors. I think the Order alliance is very much built around Sigmar being the protagonist the name Age of Sigmar suggests. Then you add the meta knowledge that GW wants to push Sigmarines and I have a hard time seeing any other choice.

The problem there is that metaknowledge is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any Stormcast release is automatically seen as GW "wanting to push Sigmarines".

I think that it's important to note that the whole idea of it having to be a Stormcast is a bit of a catch-22 when talking about Sigmar. You don't need Stormcast to be involved, you have the breadth of Order and its cities and factions to play with. If you wanted to show it as being Sigmar's herald? You have a few icons that really make a thing "Sigmar-y". The twin-tailed comet, the lion's head, and hammers.
The only faction that doesn't really work with is Sylvaneth or Seraphon since both of those tend to have very little metal or armor on them.

That's my take on it though.

 judgedoug wrote:
The most exciting part for me is the Skullvane Manse in the video. So GW will be re-releasing those sweet OOP kits!

Spoiler:

Please GW...

How many different individual hero models do Stormcast (or any faction need), this seems gratuitous, but I like personalising generic characters, so the answer is probably more than I would think.

I would have guessed a dwarf for this role (mostly based on fantasy tropes that don't apply to AoS; if I actuality think bout it ) , but see why the Stormcast would have an engineer too.

Anyway an engineer is definitly a good choice for Order, building and establishing is what they do. I suppose this is the engineer GW have in the works. So fine by me.

The disappointment is that the mini didn't herald a new and awaited faction like the grot and barbarian did.

 DarkBlack wrote:
How many different individual hero models do Stormcast (or any faction need), this seems gratuitous, but I like personalising generic characters, so the answer is probably more than I would think.

I would have guessed a dwarf for this role (mostly based on fantasy tropes that don't apply to AoS; if I actuality think bout it ) , but see why the Stormcast would have an engineer too.

Anyway an engineer is definitly a good choice for Order, building and establishing is what they do. I suppose this is the engineer GW have in the works. So fine by me.

The disappointment is that the mini didn't herald a new and awaited faction like the grot and barbarian did.

It’s only speculation at this point that the Grot and Darkoath characters herald a new faction.

If GW releases a city-building Stormcast hero but DOESNT re-release the super-awesome but now super-expensive terrain kits (Skullvane Manse, Witchfate Tor, Fortified Manor), I say we riot.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
How many different individual hero models do Stormcast (or any faction need), this seems gratuitous, but I like personalising generic characters, so the answer is probably more than I would think.

I would have guessed a dwarf for this role (mostly based on fantasy tropes that don't apply to AoS; if I actuality think bout it ) , but see why the Stormcast would have an engineer too.

Anyway an engineer is definitly a good choice for Order, building and establishing is what they do. I suppose this is the engineer GW have in the works. So fine by me.

The disappointment is that the mini didn't herald a new and awaited faction like the grot and barbarian did.

It’s only speculation at this point that the Grot and Darkoath characters herald a new faction.

The community site has stated in multiple Malign Portents articles that those are the champions.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nothing siege related as far as I've seen. We have 4 "unopened Chambers" called Sacrosanct, Ruination, Covenant, and Logister.
It looks like we're seeing the start of the Logister Chamber's opening here Ruination could I guess be relating to sieges/tearing down fortresses but there's no details there as far as I can tell.

Yeah, Ruination or Logister would have been it. Don't mind me when I call it siege stuff. Imperial Fists super fan here. Anything that sounds even remotely connected to building or tearing down a fortress is siege stuff to me. Can't think of anything else all day.

See, I actually disagree with you on that. My feelings on Mechanicus are well known so I won't tread that ground again but I do think that the combined books ends up being detrimental rather than beneficial. I wasn't planning on touching Stormcast until the Vanguard stuff came out. I was excited for them to get a book of their own...and then when they didn't? I left it alone to work on something else until this Vanguard Chamber boxed set came out since the stuff couldn't even really be used where I wanted it to be(You can't run the Lord Aquilor on his Gryph-Charger for Skirmish and Gryph-Hounds for whatever reason aren't part of the Vanguard Chamber except with this new warscroll battalion from the box).

I can't imagine I'm the only person who feels like a book where everything is just shoved in is less interesting than a fully fleshed out smaller book for a faction that interests you.

Yes, I'm vaguely familiar with your position. I'm pretty much at the opposite end and would pack all Marines in the same book. It's pretty hard finding a a middle ground that pleases both sides. GW seemed pretty close in 4th ed, but these days they go back and forth on the issue and it's hard to see where they are going at all. They seem to be unwilling to commit to an open ruleset that combines all rules in a single book but allows for themed lists that are truly representative of the sub-factions in some cases, but then do just that in the Chaos battle tomes (from what I can tell).

I think it could work if they used the split book approach they did the odd core rulebook and campaign book with, where you have a dedicated background book that is large enough to cover all sub-factions, and then a separate rule book that is also large enough to get everyone its full rules.

It doesn't help that they are bent on excluding crucial parts of an army list, like a true Skitarii HQ, just because there's no model for it yet. I think they could work out a lot of rules and formatting issues if they didn't stubbornly go with the no model - no rules approach.

To be fair, when we got the Blood Angels Tactical Squad? It was also the same point in time that it was becoming clear that they didn't want to just "sell an upgrade sprue". Several of the Space Wolf kits use up old stock which is why they have been left alone(the Devastator kit they come with is the pre-Grav Cannon one and the Skyclaws came with the previous iteration of the Assault Squad too) for the most part.

You're right that the Blood Angels Tactical Squad wasn't a "needed" thing, but it didn't hurt anyone too badly by it happening.

I keep thinking that, to stay with the Blood Angels Tactical Squad, that one extra box of unnecessary Marines is a box of Battle Sisters or revised Tomb Kings skeletons I didn't get.

It's not the box's existence that bother's me, but what it stopped from existing.

Not gonna lie, I hope you're right. I want Mechanicus with two books so I can run pure Skitarii without having people telling me to "quit whining" and just play "counts as" with a techpriest.

I think Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle were ones which benefit from the combined approach but that comes from the setup of the lore for the followers of Chaos for AoS. A Greater Daemon leading mortal followers into battle is something that totally works there versus 40k where Daemons are split into their own book for the Greater Daemons.

I expect, personally, that you're right to a point with Death but I think it will also be possible that we get books not unlike the Chaos ones themed around a specific faction and component parts.

Agreed, counts as isn't be a solution to a problem that really should be solved at GW's end. Especially now that keywords are everywhere and cutting down on actual rules interactions previous ally rules, for instance, didn't constrain.

Also agree on Chaos. The battle tomes are in my opinion the way to go. All part of the same Grand Alliance so you can mix and match if you want, but each keeping its own theme while at the same time offering wide enough unit selection to not look like a ridiculous mini faction

He's a head taller and twice as broad but it's also mentioned in the Silver Tower stuff that he was a giant of a man.

It's like saying that Hector Rex doesn't fit with the other Inquisitors for 40k because he's huge.
I'll totally agree that if this was meant to be the case, he should have been given an actual name instead of being generic.

Either that or just not only put out the one extraordinary guy out all by himself but instead at least a handful of models of that theme. It's a bit of a problem for me with the Malign Portents heralds, too. I really don't want to put my Darkoath Chieftain with my old Marauders and adding the Queen and nothing else isn't going to change that. The wraith is easier since he at least looks like he belongs in a Nighthaunt army.

I can understand your gripe about the Tomb Kings but I will note that there was a faction of Undead that seemed very similar appearing early on in an audio drama for AoS.
I would like to see a bit more of a different aesthetic for Death but I think that as it stands right now it works out well.

And I keep waiting for something to come of this. Battle Sisters, Slaanesh, Tomb Kings - Reign of a Million Years Revival Tour... feels like these days my hobby is waiting for models that'll probably not come in my lifetime.

Really, while I said that the wraith herald is nice for fitting into the existing undead model line, it's really not enough for me. I want to see a complete vision of what Age of Sigmar undead are supposed to be. Even if it was just a definite refusal from GW to update Death in any way.

Sure, but so would someone done up in the style of Krom the Conqueror or any Chaos hero in Chaos armor.

I don't disagree. Just saying to me there is limited freedom of choice in Chaos, but it doesn't have to be Chaos armor or bust. Could also be a redo of the hooded guy from the Albion campaign.

The problem there is that metaknowledge is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any Stormcast release is automatically seen as GW "wanting to push Sigmarines".

I think that it's important to note that the whole idea of it having to be a Stormcast is a bit of a catch-22 when talking about Sigmar. You don't need Stormcast to be involved, you have the breadth of Order and its cities and factions to play with. If you wanted to show it as being Sigmar's herald? You have a few icons that really make a thing "Sigmar-y". The twin-tailed comet, the lion's head, and hammers.
The only faction that doesn't really work with is Sylvaneth or Seraphon since both of those tend to have very little metal or armor on them.

That's my take on it though.

It can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, yes.

I agree with you, actually. I would have totally gone with a herald separate from the Stormhosts. Just to show that Sigmar is also the god of civilization and not just the god of punching Chaos in the face. I've not been particularly happy with GW's early world-building specifically because it pretty much was just the latter - fighting without a world to fight over.

My problem is that I don't see GW agreeing with the idea that the Order herald could come from anywhere else but the Sigmarines. I don't want to call it "a real eye-opener" when the interview about Guilliman's return came around because my opinion of GW's creative endeavors isn't exactly the best, but the expression that stuck was the author saying the introduction of the first loyalist Primarch could not just happen any old way, it had to, it had to show right from the beginning just how awesome he is. Thus he came back in an action scene punching Black Legionnaires and turning catastrophic defeat into immediate and irrevocable victory. I probably did not relate that in a particularly good way, but the point is that I get the impression that a certain mindset is present in GW's creative staff that single-mindedly puts "the iconic" in the focus. Everything must be immediately recognizable as iconic of whatever it is meant to represent. No subtlety, no room for interpretation, it's got to scream at the viewer that it's this one thing and nothing else. And also, look how awesome it is!

That's why I think GW couldn't possibly get behind the idea that anything other than a Sigmarine could be a herald in this instance.

 EnTyme wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:
How many different individual hero models do Stormcast (or any faction need), this seems gratuitous, but I like personalising generic characters, so the answer is probably more than I would think.

I would have guessed a dwarf for this role (mostly based on fantasy tropes that don't apply to AoS; if I actuality think bout it ) , but see why the Stormcast would have an engineer too.

Anyway an engineer is definitly a good choice for Order, building and establishing is what they do. I suppose this is the engineer GW have in the works. So fine by me.

The disappointment is that the mini didn't herald a new and awaited faction like the grot and barbarian did.

It’s only speculation at this point that the Grot and Darkoath characters herald a new faction.

The community site has stated in multiple Malign Portents articles that those are the champions.

He's saying that it is speculation that those characters are heralding(as in their existence marks the approach of) a new faction i.e. Darkoaths.

The Grot was an existing faction, the Moonclan Grots, and thus really doesn't apply.

I like him, the king sending forth his frontline engineer to combat death and destruction with the very essence of order and civilisation is a cool image.

An elf hero would've been nicer but I guess that deluge will come when the Shadowkin take the spotlight.

I'm hopeful of two things with him:

1. He'll have connections to the Ironweld via his Dispossessed workers and that community rumor engine hint with the lion and anvil may mark such a focus or it'll be the emblem of the Stormkeep.

2. New and old building kit releases.

I'm suspecting GW will find a way to release another SC hero, even when elves get their turn.

I could see this SC character having rules based on terrain.

@Kanluwen Ah. Guess I misunderstood. I would agree with that, and also point out again that the Darkoath Chieftain is a Slaves to Darkness hero, and that's what I expect of the Warqueen as well. Darkoath is not a keyword that exists at this time, and I'm not expecting it to be a new faction.