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Part of the Space Wolves rules regarding Grey Slayers may or may not restrict the Legion from taking certain Rites of War (unless there has been a faq that I am unaware of clarifiying this). Having skimmed over the Internet general consensus seems to hold that this is fluffy for the Legion. However one great company is described as being composed mainly of veterans and one having a large number of dreadnoughts despite the fact that the RoWs that would represent this, Pride of the Legion and Fury of the Ancients, are barred whilst at the same time Space Wolves have access to the Orbital Assault and Outcast Sons rite of war; in the Inferno book the prospect of Horus's warrior lodges infiltrating the legion is described as laughable and they are never mentioned to use drop pods and assault claws.

Cyrixiinus wrote:
Part of the Space Wolves rules regarding Grey Slayers may or may not restrict the Legion from taking certain Rites of War (unless there has been a faq that I am unaware of clarifiying this). Having skimmed over the Internet general consensus seems to hold that this is fluffy for the Legion. However one great company is described as being composed mainly of veterans and one having a large number of dreadnoughts despite the fact that the RoWs that would represent this, Pride of the Legion and Fury of the Ancients, are barred whilst at the same time Space Wolves have access to the Orbital Assault and Outcast Sons rite of war; in the Inferno book the prospect of Horus's warrior lodges infiltrating the legion is described as laughable and they are never mentioned to use drop pods and assault claws.

On your latter two points, Orbital Assault and Outcast Sons:
Every Legion had the ability to launch any kind of attack. This includes Death Guard Recon Companies, Alpha Legion Armoured Breakthrough, Salamanders Angel's Wrath, and anything in between. Just because Space Wolves didn't specialise in orbital assaults didn't mean they didn't have the ability to. I'd say it's perfectly fluffy for them to have such (and in fact, more fluffy than Space Wolves with jump packs, which they seem to dislike in fluff, but not in game.

Outcast Sons is just a Rite for any Traitors of a Loyalist Legion, and anyone from any Legion pretty much could have turned Traitor. I think that's also fluffy, seeing as there's easily the chance for Space Wolves to turn Blackshield, or Traitor. Horus' Warrior Lodges didn't need to be part of the Legion for that to happen.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
On your latter two points, Orbital Assault and Outcast Sons:
Every Legion had the ability to launch any kind of attack.

I don't deny that, but it still doesn't explain why it's considered fluffy to bar rites of war that the Space Wolves would have been more likely to use than these.

Cyrixiinus wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
On your latter two points, Orbital Assault and Outcast Sons:
Every Legion had the ability to launch any kind of attack.

I don't deny that, but it still doesn't explain why it's considered fluffy to bar rites of war that the Space Wolves would have been more likely to use than these.

Initially there was a fair deal of complaining in relation to it from just about everyone.

People now consider it the fluffy approach because it's the design forgeworld seems to have envisioned for the legion and they write the fluff. Just as people now seem to consider multiple hqs must be fluffy (reasoning is wolves are about sagas...)

Though the wolves actually used tons of drop pod assaults such as on prospero so it's really weird that their row ban drop pods.

But the points I refered to were based on the fluff in the same book that the rules were released from.

Also, did the Space Wolves ever have an equivalent to the Prosperine Spire Guard?

Most of the fluff I read suggested that the regular human elements weren't fond of fighting along side the wolves as they found the savagery off-putting, to the level that they'd sometimes rather take the casualties rather than call on the wolves. In Prospero Burns the wolves even made an effort to come across this way to the Imperial army officers. The closest thing they had to spire guard was the talons. I actually really didn't like the Space Wolves fluff in Inferno, it seemed to go out of it's way to make Russ look like an impulsive dumbass, not a cunning hunter, like some sort of gakky Angron lite. As for the rights of war honestly I think it's because the book was just poorly written. It might be true that wolves would more often act like how the book pushes you to play, it doesn't mean you have to restrict them from other play styles that would align with how the wolves acted in less common scenarios.

The talons?

The 30K Space Wolves are, in a word are disappointing. I think they nailed Leman Russ' rules as a big, bad solo melee fighter, but the rest of the Legion... they have some of the most divergent organization from all the other Legions represented in the rules. For example, the Sons of Horus leadership was a part of a Warrior Lodge, and all the best Marines were in the club. Nowhere in the rules for the SoH is that represented. For the Space Wolves- they were known to be vicious warriors that went out for individual glory, so they stacked the absurd HQ rule for every 1000 points. Then they make the Grey Slayers the Compulsory Unit Choice- not that they are bad, they are actually pretty good, but they are a bit on the expensive side, and you can't really join any characters to them or they lose a bunch of their abilities. Then take a look at the joke of Terminators they have- they are some of the most expensive Terminators in 30K, but have only 1 wound compared to all the other special units with 2 wounds. Really?

It's like Forge World gave them all these great rules, then started to contradict themselves, or they didn't realize how 30K is played.

Inferno seems to have suffered from some poor playtesting for the wolves. Deathsworn and Vargyr are overcosted. SWs are the only Legion that has such a heavy RoW restriction due to the Grey Slayer requirement. Grey Slayers lose their main rule when joined by an IC, can't fit ICs in their Rhinos or Drop Pods, etc.

The HQ thing doesn't bother me as much, as that has always been around since their early codex. It just seems that the rest of the army has no synergy, and the fluff paints them too often as chumps instead of being these smart World Eaters.

Well my mates disagree they think death sworn are undercosted after seeing them dismantle two destroyer squads a tactical squad and a couple of terminators in one round of combat for only two casualties.

I do think you need a speaker for the dead to really capitalize their killing power but you need multiple HQ anyway so its fine.

hobojebus wrote:
Well my mates disagree they think death sworn are undercosted after seeing them dismantle two destroyer squads a tactical squad and a couple of terminators in one round of combat for only two casualties.

I do think you need a speaker for the dead to really capitalize their killing power but you need multiple HQ anyway so its fine.

I mean a unit with power axes should certainly walk through destroyers and tac squads. You would get the same results for less points if you brought a command squad with axes and shields.

I feel the opposing play would have to roll really awfully to only kill 2 deathsworn with terminators they have no save past armour so every fist axe and hammer kills a guy with each attack.

hobojebus wrote:
Well my mates disagree they think death sworn are undercosted after seeing them dismantle two destroyer squads a tactical squad and a couple of terminators in one round of combat for only two casualties.

I do think you need a speaker for the dead to really capitalize their killing power but you need multiple HQ anyway so its fine.

Sadly, you could just as easily maul those units with a Grey Slayer squad with PWs. Deathsworn seem to be set up as a CC beatstick, but lack survivability. They go at I1 and have no invulnerable save. You can get Terminators for the same cost, which are arguably better. Moreover, what do Deathsworn bring to the table over CC vets or a upgraded Greyslayer pack? A extra special grenade attack? A gimmick to still get attacks even after they die? They are far too expensive for a sacrificial unit, and against any other CC specialist squad you would want Vargyr instead (except those are even more expensive).