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Daedalus81 wrote:


The only reason I doubt that is because you create your wound pool in AoS. Your method requires the player to interrupt each and every attack.

And it will vary based on what you roll and when.

They have already said wounds don't carry over though so a wound pool doesn't seem likely as that would enable carrying over of wounds.

Yeah, this is the problem I am seeing. No one wants to have to roll damage one at a time, but the different methods yield different results so we are still waiting on clarification as to how exactly it works.

 xttz wrote:
I fully expect we'll see T10+ on Titans, Stompas, Hierophants, etc

I prefer the way of representing being tough with lots of Wounds. A lot of frustration from the save-stacking GMC era came because it didn't feel like you do were doing anything when you attacked them, and vehicles often had the problem where it was a crapshoot where you either blew it up instantly, or didn't do anything important. Chipping wounds off enemies and wearing them down feels like you're getting stuff done, even if it takes the same number of shots in practice. And if Instant Death is gone, it's less important to have Toughness 6+.

I'm reminded of D&D 5e moving to a model where AC was less important, and less likely to scale out of what characters or enemies could consistently hit, and towards HP being the reliable way to tank damage and resistances halving rather than deducting from damage. Same net effect, but less feelings of whiffing.

RoninXiC wrote:
10 pages ago= CC IS WORTHLESS
Now = CC IS OVERPOWERED

It flips twice per page sometimes. We don't have enough units to make that call yet.

Loopstah wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:


Each damage roll does a max of whatever the max wounds is of the unit.

So firghting termies:

Lascannon does 4 damage, 2 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 1 damage, 1 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 2 damage, 2 damage added to pool

There are now 5 wounds to distribute starting with a model of your choice and applying wounds until the model is dead.

Best guess anyway.

It sounds more like it will be:

Lascannon does 4 damage, remove a Terminator, extra wounds are lost.
Lascannon does 1 damage, allocate the damage to a Terminator (they now have 1 wound left)
Lascannon does 2 damage, allocate the damage to the wounded Terminator (they now die), the extra wound is lost.

You lose two Terminators with no wounds left over.

Definitely this. Defender allocates damage. Damage is going to go to wounded models first and they already said there is no wounds pool. You'll just roll for damage when a model fails a save. Seems fairly straight forward to me.

 Bottle wrote:
Yeah, this is the problem I am seeing. No one wants to have to roll damage one at a time, but the different methods yield different results so we are still waiting on clarification as to how exactly it works.

Roll to hit, roll to wound, roll saves.
If failed save:
If you're shooting with a multi-wound weapon against 1W targets = don't roll damage, remove model.
else if shooting with a multi-wound weapon against 2+W targets = roll damage, apply wounds
else apply 1 damage.

Fairly simple really, in fact iirc old Fantasy used to do something similar

 Bottle wrote:
The one thing I am dying to know is how wounds are allocated to a unit when a gun does multiple shots and multiple damage. Enlighten me if we've had it explained, I must have missed it, but this is the scenario that's confusing me.

Say we shoot a unit with the battlecannon. The stats are: RNG 72"/ Heavy D6/S 8/AP 2/ DMG D3.

So if this was AoS, we would work out the shot as follows: shoots up to 6 attacks and each does D3 damage on the unit, so a maximum of 18 wounds inflicted on the unit.

Now we know in 40k that damage does not splash over from one model to the next. So if I was shooting a unit of 1 wound models the most I could do would be 6 wounds, rather than 18.

But what if I am shooting a unit with multiple wounds (say 4 each like the Tyranid Warriors), do I need to keep applying wounds to models until they die (like in AoS) or will those 6 shots each have to be allocated to a different model?

I presume it's only one model can be wounded at a time, but that would mean rolling for Damage 1 dice at a time, wouldn't it? Say those 6 shots all wounded a unit of Tyranid Warriors, I wound't be able to just roll 6D3 because that would allow damage to splash across models. Instead I would have to roll the dice one at a time so that if I rolled a 6 (3 wounds) followed by a 4 (2 wounds) it would only do 4 wounds in total and not splash. Or am I allowed to roll 6D3 at once and then group them into neat model killing blocks (so pair a 5,6 with a 1,2 to get an even 4 wounds)? I feel like there is still a piece missing from the picture here.

Can't wait to find out

First you work out how many hits, let's say three.
Then you roll to see how much damage those three hits do (let's say D6)
3 models will then take 3 D6 shots, without spilling over. The defender chooses who takes those hits, though has to start with a wounded model.

Sorry if someone already answered that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loopstah wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:


Each damage roll does a max of whatever the max wounds is of the unit.

So firghting termies:

Lascannon does 4 damage, 2 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 1 damage, 1 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 2 damage, 2 damage added to pool

There are now 5 wounds to distribute starting with a model of your choice and applying wounds until the model is dead.

Best guess anyway.

It sounds more like it will be:

Lascannon does 4 damage, remove a Terminator, extra wounds are lost.
Lascannon does 1 damage, allocate the damage to a Terminator (they now have 1 wound left)
Lascannon does 2 damage, allocate the damage to the wounded Terminator (they now die), the extra wound is lost.

You lose two Terminators with no wounds left over.

Yeah this is how is works.

 theharrower wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:


Each damage roll does a max of whatever the max wounds is of the unit.

So firghting termies:

Lascannon does 4 damage, 2 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 1 damage, 1 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 2 damage, 2 damage added to pool

There are now 5 wounds to distribute starting with a model of your choice and applying wounds until the model is dead.

Best guess anyway.

It sounds more like it will be:

Lascannon does 4 damage, remove a Terminator, extra wounds are lost.
Lascannon does 1 damage, allocate the damage to a Terminator (they now have 1 wound left)
Lascannon does 2 damage, allocate the damage to the wounded Terminator (they now die), the extra wound is lost.

You lose two Terminators with no wounds left over.

Definitely this. Defender allocates damage. Damage is going to go to wounded models first and they already said there is no wounds pool. You'll just roll for damage when a model fails a save. Seems fairly straight forward to me.

Have we had clarification that the defender decides in what order the damage is allocated? Otherwise what's to say the 1 damage shot is allocated before the 2 damage shot?

If a squad of 3 Tyranid Warriors has a wounded model with 1 wound remaining, I shoot it twice with lascannons and get 6 and 1 damage from each shot, can the defender then allocate the 6 damage first (wasting 5 of the wounds) and then apply the 1 damage to the next model?

Yes we have Bottle, I suggest reading through the QA summaries, and articles in OP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you have to allocate wounds to a wounded model first, meaning your squad will either have maximum 1 wounded model, or no wounded models.

 Rippy wrote:
Yes we have Bottle, I suggest reading through the QA summaries, and articles in OP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you have to allocate wounds to a wounded model first, meaning your squad will either have maximum 1 wounded model, or no wounded models.

From what I've read through, it's been confirmed that the defender allocates the wounds, but it still seems up in the air if they get to decide in which order the damage is applied.

If that's the case it does lead to hypothetical situations like this:

- Tyranid Player has 2 squads of 3 Tyranid Warriors, both have a wounded model with 1 wound remaining.
- Marine player has 2 squads with 2 lascannons both in range of either Tyranid Warrior squad.
- If the Marine player shoots 1 squad (of 2 lascannons) at each, the Tyranid player will be able to discard lots of wounds. For example if both squad's lascannons wounded and both did 6 and 1 damage, the Tyranid player would allocate both 6's to the wounded model and then the 1's to the next models in each squad.
(Totalling 2 models killed and 2 extra wounds inflicted)
- It would instead be better for the Marine player to split fire, each squad shooting one lascannon at each of the Tyranid Warrior squads. If the results are the same (6 damage and 1 damage) the first squad kills the Tyranid Warrior with 1 wound left from each squad, the second squad puts its damage onto fresh models and so kills one and puts a wound on another.
(Totalling 3 models killed and 1 wound inflicted).

In both cases the Marine player rolled exactly the same dice, but using split fire is able to circumvent the damage allocation favoring the defender and kills more models.

I'm not saying this is good or bad, just that this is the sort of interesting situation that can follow. I hope my example is explained clearly: 4 las cannon shots coming from 2 units - both doing 6 and 1 damage each. By using Split Fire the marine player can kill more models than just straight up shooting each enemy squad with one of his own.

 Bottle wrote:

 theharrower wrote:

Loopstah wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:


Each damage roll does a max of whatever the max wounds is of the unit.

So firghting termies:

Lascannon does 4 damage, 2 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 1 damage, 1 damage added to pool
Lascannon does 2 damage, 2 damage added to pool

There are now 5 wounds to distribute starting with a model of your choice and applying wounds until the model is dead.

Best guess anyway.

It sounds more like it will be:

Lascannon does 4 damage, remove a Terminator, extra wounds are lost.
Lascannon does 1 damage, allocate the damage to a Terminator (they now have 1 wound left)
Lascannon does 2 damage, allocate the damage to the wounded Terminator (they now die), the extra wound is lost.

You lose two Terminators with no wounds left over.

Definitely this. Defender allocates damage. Damage is going to go to wounded models first and they already said there is no wounds pool. You'll just roll for damage when a model fails a save. Seems fairly straight forward to me.

Have we had clarification that the defender decides in what order the damage is allocated? Otherwise what's to say the 1 damage shot is allocated before the 2 damage shot?

If a squad of 3 Tyranid Warriors has a wounded model with 1 wound remaining, I shoot it twice with lascannons and get 6 and 1 damage from each shot, can the defender then allocate the 6 damage first (wasting 5 of the wounds) and then apply the 1 damage to the next model?

See, this is wrong to me. How it should work is you roll all wounds at once into a pool, and lets say out of the possible 18 from the 3 lascannons you cause 9 damage, one roll of 5, another 3 and a 1. That means 3 terminators removed if they fail their invulnerable saves, and 3 damage are lost. It doesn't slow the game down and the lascannons still cannot kill more than 3 models. Rolling 1 at a time is so frustrating in the current game. Especially when people do it for absolutely no reason, rolling 9 3+ saves on equally equipped 1W models... A massive bug bear.

 Bottle wrote:


I'm not saying this is good or bad, just that this is the sort of interesting situation that can follow. I hope my example is explained clearly: 4 las cannon shots coming from 2 units - both doing 6 and 1 damage each. By using Split Fire the marine player can kill more models than just straight up shooting each enemy squad with one of his own.

I think the idea they are aiming for is to encourage you to shoot multi-wound weapons like Lascannons at things with 6+ wounds (vehicles / MCs etc) and use other weapons (eg multi-shot weapons) to shoot at 1 wound or few wound models. Shooting lascannons at warriors would be a "oops I have nothing else in range to aim at" thing.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


See, this is wrong to me. How it should work is you roll all wounds at once into a pool, and lets say out of the possible 18 from the 3 lascannons you cause 9 damage, one roll of 5, another 3 and a 1. That means 3 terminators removed if they fail their invulnerable saves, and 3 damage are lost. It doesn't slow the game down and the lascannons still cannot kill more than 3 models. Rolling 1 at a time is so frustrating in the current game. Especially when people do it for absolutely no reason, rolling 9 3+ saves on equally equipped 1W models... A massive bug bear.

They don't want a situation where a lascannon hits one Guardsman and causes another five to die from the shock of watching their mate get vaporised, or something similar.

What is confusing here sorry? Attacker rolls to hit and wound on the weapon against the squad of his choice.
Defender then chooses who in that squad takes the wound, though has to start with the wounded model.

The attacker has to declare all targets from weapons within in squad prior to start shooting though.(Ie 6 bolters against that squad, multi-melta against that tank etc)

There's also no "still waiting for clarification"... they simply havent released the rules! ;-)

I wounder how wound allocation will work for squadrons of leeman euss and broods of 'fex's tbh. Because some of the speculation so far does not take this into consideration.

 Lockark wrote:
Wound how wound allocation will work for squadrons of leeman euss and broods of 'fex's tbh. Because some of the speculation so far does not take this into consideration.

You keep hitting the wounded model until it dies, leaving one or more fully operational 'fexs or russes to keep shooting/ stabbing you with no hinderance.

Loopstah wrote:

 Bottle wrote:


I'm not saying this is good or bad, just that this is the sort of interesting situation that can follow. I hope my example is explained clearly: 4 las cannon shots coming from 2 units - both doing 6 and 1 damage each. By using Split Fire the marine player can kill more models than just straight up shooting each enemy squad with one of his own.

I think the idea they are aiming for is to encourage you to shoot multi-wound weapons like Lascannons at things with 6+ wounds (vehicles / MCs etc) and use other weapons (eg multi-shot weapons) to shoot at 1 wound or few wound models. Shooting lascannons at warriors would be a "oops I have nothing else in range to aim at" thing.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


See, this is wrong to me. How it should work is you roll all wounds at once into a pool, and lets say out of the possible 18 from the 3 lascannons you cause 9 damage, one roll of 5, another 3 and a 1. That means 3 terminators removed if they fail their invulnerable saves, and 3 damage are lost. It doesn't slow the game down and the lascannons still cannot kill more than 3 models. Rolling 1 at a time is so frustrating in the current game. Especially when people do it for absolutely no reason, rolling 9 3+ saves on equally equipped 1W models... A massive bug bear.

They don't want a situation where a lascannon hits one Guardsman and causes another five to die from the shock of watching their mate get vaporised, or something similar.

That's not what I'm describing. A lascannon can remove a max number of 1 model per turn. In the case of guardsmen with the above, it would be 3 guardsmen removed like the 3 terminators.

What I'm explaining is the shenanigans described above where you can roll multiple damage and removed limited models due to the defender allocating damage in a way that suits them to minimise total amount of models removed.

Thoughts from someone semi experienced in Age of Sigmar with regard to how Ld is going to work in 40k.

First, it's really not the lameness it might seem for Orks. Yes, you stand to lose extra Boyz, but at the following advantage....

See, with Battleshock in AoS, and soon to be 40k, nobody ever actually wins a combat. Instead, both parties take a test at the end of the turn. So yes, you do stand to lose extra Boyz, but if you've given the enemy a good kicking, and picked a decent target, they stand to lose far more. It doesn't matter if you only pulled down a couple of Terminators through sheer weight of numbers at the cost of 8 Boyz, there's now a chance you'll send another one or two packing - and your remain Lads will still be very literally in the fight.

That's a very different thing to deal with and exploit than the current 'all or nothing' break test. Yes a given party will still be horribly punished if they botch their attacks, but it's simply not as deadly - and can mean that units like Chaos Terminators are better able to survive whiffing their attacks, as your opponent still has to do decent damage to make Battleshock a worry - which compared to Ld-1 and hope they don't catch you is a big boost, no?

And my word....Synapse is going to be filth. Until you've dealt with it, those little bugs are going to be the kings of attrition - able to hold up and see from far harder units than themselves, given enough time. So even if they're individually weaker than a Kitten's fart, they're a nasty threat that has to be dealt with at your earliest opportunity....which does risk you ignoring the big bugs until it's too late.

Make no mistake. The change from Break Test to Battleshock is a real challenge, but definitely something you'll be wanting to learn how to best exploit!

 Rippy wrote:
What is confusing here sorry? Attacker rolls to hit and wound on the weapon against the squad of his choice.
Defender then chooses who in that squad takes the wound, though has to start with the wounded model.

The attacker has to declare all targets from weapons within in squad prior to start shooting though.(Ie 6 bolters against that squad, multi-melta against that tank etc)

But if you hit with 3 weapons that can cause multiple damage each, then you have to roll each damage separately, otherwise wounds will 'spill over' in the case of multiple wound models.

Loopstah wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
Wound how wound allocation will work for squadrons of leeman euss and broods of 'fex's tbh. Because some of the speculation so far does not take this into consideration.

You keep hitting the wounded model until it dies, leaving one or more fully operational 'fexs or russes to keep shooting/ stabbing you with no hinderance.

Might make a interesting situation were people start taking one cheap/barebones one in the squadron to tank wounds 1st.

 Lockark wrote:
I wounder how wound allocation will work for squadrons of leeman euss and broods of 'fex's tbh. Because some of the speculation so far does not take this into consideration.

If they still exist, they'd work like any other multi wound unit. The attacker shoots at the unit of Russ, defender allocates wounds. Once 1 Russ is wounded the defender must keep allocating wounds to that Russ until it's destroyed.

 Rippy wrote:
What is confusing here sorry? Attacker rolls to hit and wound on the weapon against the squad of his choice.
Defender then chooses who in that squad takes the wound, though has to start with the wounded model.

The attacker has to declare all targets from weapons within in squad prior to start shooting though.(Ie 6 bolters against that squad, multi-melta against that tank etc)

The confusion is as follows:

I shoot with my Battlecannon at Tyranid Warriors and get 6 shots. All wounds. All saves failed. I roll for damage and get 1,2,2,3,3,3 wounds from the D3 rolls.

Does the Tyranid player get to choose the order the 1,2,2,3,3,3 get applied? And so chooses 3,3 (waste 2 wounds), 3,2 (waste 1 wound), 2,1 (resulting in 2 dead Warriors and one on a single wound remaining).

If it's the case it leads to split fire being beneficial to pick off multiple wounded models across multiple units and then split firing again from a second unit to maximise damage potential (as per my example above).

 insaniak wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
With the new transport rules we're already seeing new tactics emerging. That's got to be good right.

Based on the teaser, I would expect the 'new' tactic is basically going to be a repeat of 4th edition's 'Don't use transports' strategy.

At least for assault armies, having to disembark before moving means that enemy units are just going to move out of assault range before you get a chance to charge.

With transports being able to charge to soak overwatch you may take them as mobile walls that your guys run behind instead of getting inside...

endlesswaltz123 wrote:


That's not what I'm describing. A lascannon can remove a max number of 1 model per turn. In the case of guardsmen with the above, it would be 3 guardsmen removed like the 3 terminators.

What I'm explaining is the shenanigans described above where you can roll multiple damage and removed limited models due to the defender allocating damage in a way that suits them to minimise total amount of models removed.

In your example though wound rolls of 5, 3 and 1 should only remove 2 Terminators and leave a third on one wound. The 5 and 3 kill a Terminator outright but the 1 wont.

 Bottle wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
What is confusing here sorry? Attacker rolls to hit and wound on the weapon against the squad of his choice.
Defender then chooses who in that squad takes the wound, though has to start with the wounded model.

The attacker has to declare all targets from weapons within in squad prior to start shooting though.(Ie 6 bolters against that squad, multi-melta against that tank etc)

The confusion is as follows:

I shoot with my Battlecannon at Tyranid Warriors and get 6 shots. All wounds. All saves failed. I roll for damage and get 1,2,2,3,3,3 wounds from the D3 rolls.

Does the Tyranid player get to choose the order the 1,2,2,3,3,3 get applied? And so chooses 3,3 (waste 2 wounds), 3,2 (waste 1 wound), 2,1 (resulting in 2 dead Warriors and one on a single wound remaining).

If it's the case it leads to split fire being beneficial to pick off multiple wounded models across multiple units and then split firing again from a second unit to maximise damage potential (as per my example above).

Your point is valid and we simply do not know yet. I expect the rules will be clear on it, and tbh it could go either way and not really be an issue. We shall see!

changemod wrote:
Thought: I hope non-walker vehicles still don't lock into combat, because otherwise you could charge 5 rhinos into 5 shooty units and gum them up to either stay locked or fall back and surrender shooting.

The only way this could happen is if it were to be surrounded.
The only way a super heavy walker could be locked into combat seems to be surrounding them to the point they can't walk away over the sheer amount of enemies.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

With transports being able to charge to soak overwatch you may take them as mobile walls that your guys run behind instead of getting inside...

Harkens back to 2nd ed, where the primary role of the rhino was to drive around ramming enemy vehicles, rather than to transport troops...

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
What is confusing here sorry? Attacker rolls to hit and wound on the weapon against the squad of his choice.
Defender then chooses who in that squad takes the wound, though has to start with the wounded model.

The attacker has to declare all targets from weapons within in squad prior to start shooting though.(Ie 6 bolters against that squad, multi-melta against that tank etc)

But if you hit with 3 weapons that can cause multiple damage each, then you have to roll each damage separately, otherwise wounds will 'spill over' in the case of multiple wound models.

Yeah so you roll to hit with weapon, roll a D6 for first hit, apply wounds, then roll next D6, apply wounds so on.

I always tried to use my rhinos as walls to keep the rest of my troops safe. In 7th it really doesn't work unless you bring a literal wall...and hope the opponent has nothing up high.

To be honest I thought they were already very clear about allocating wounds between all the info we have so far.