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Lord Kragan wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
From http://saltywargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/warhammer-40k-8th-edition-pricing.html

Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00

So a 125 euros or 265 dollars for the starter. Not bad to be honest. The rules are also fairly cheaper respect the older books. THe indexes are the latest pricing bracket for Battletome, 25 euros. Not bad.

At the current exchange rate, $1.30 equals £1.00 (weak pound vs strong dollar)

Core Rules (5 Pages) Free
Dark Imperium Starter Set $123.50
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook $45.50
Tactical Objective Cards $10.40
Sector Imperialis Objectives $26.00
Command Dice $16.25
Wound Trackers $10.40
Combat Gauge $7.80
Indices (each) $19.50
Dark Imperium Novel $23.40

I guess these figures will be rounded and evened out, but this is the exact exchange rate.

 Deadshot wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Previews:

Spoiler:

Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.

I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.

No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.

That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.

Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.

Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

By being in a position where they can't position their final movement so that they don't end up within 1" of an enemny model, ANYWHERE. Zone denial could force a flier off the board or render it unable to complete a legal move, hence destroying it. Tough, but possible.

 Deadshot wrote:
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

I'm not sure if my posts are getting lost or just not being read, but again: the concept of pivoting doesn't make sense. There's no facing. A flyer can't be forced to move "forwards" because there IS no forwards. The idea of turning doesn't exist as a concept any more, because vehicles can move in any direction at any time.

 Deadshot wrote:



Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

I imagine it will apply only to a bomber making a last ditch run on a unit near the edge. Otherwise there may yet be bespoke rules for each flyer according to their capabilities that governs movement a little more.

Looking forward to everything so far except needing all 5 new Codex "indexes" since I have at least one army for each. Hope they're cheap.

 Deadshot wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Previews:

Spoiler:

Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.

I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.

No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.

That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.

Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.

Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

I haven't seen any exceptions yet in this edition. There aren't going to be any rules for 90 degree pivots. Doesn't make any sense. As to how does a model move off the board and get destroyed? Simple. Flyer can't be placed because miniatures are in the way regardless of how it moves. With nowhere left to go, you fly off the table. Not that uncommon of a scenario.

changemod wrote:
The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.

Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.

I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.

Are there any online retailers that still do 20-25% off? Or has gw new online cart policy stopped all that?

Also I Am completely confused what a combat gauge does!!!

Daedalus81 wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
There will also be a new 40k app soon after release - we dont have much info yet but it could be a better choice price-wise

Source?

I can be one. They said that point blank at the AdeptiCon presentation in April.

Eyjio wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

I'm not sure if my posts are getting lost or just not being read, but again: the concept of pivoting doesn't make sense. There's no facing. A flyer can't be forced to move "forwards" because there IS no forwards. The idea of turning doesn't exist as a concept any more, because vehicles can move in any direction at any time.

They are not getting lost, I answered by stating its possible that Flyers will (and I repeat again) be the exception to this, and will have a front and be forced to turn in specific ways. IE, Flyer specific rules that contradict the normal movement rules of anything can pivot as it pleases. Read: bespoke rules as suggested below.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:



Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

I imagine it will apply only to a bomber making a last ditch run on a unit near the edge. Otherwise there may yet be bespoke rules for each flyer according to their capabilities that governs movement a little more.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:
The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.

Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.

I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.

That doesn't strike me as a problem at all. They can be seen and shot back at after they've revealed themselves, and it's not weird at all that a tank could plough through a ruin adequately well with the chance of a collapse immobilising the vehicle already represented in the rules.

No whippy sticks?!?!

 Deadshot wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Previews:

Spoiler:

Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.

I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.

No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.

That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.

Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.

Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

Forgive my lack of spoiler tags on the quote tree, posting by tablet makes editing a pain.

That said, we have 12 pages of core rules. Core rules were where we flyer rules where kept in the past. Now where do you think we're going to find them hiding the pivot rule exactly? They already mentioned the Fly keyword, if there was a flyer exception to normal movement it should be right there as well, but it isn't.

So until proven otherwise, flyers don't pivot to move.

Ugghh not crazy about the look of these new Marines. I hate the masks too. I know that design has been creeping up a bit, especially in the 30k stuff, but I prefer the classic grill.

I commend what GW is doing here, but while I prefer always buy the starter set, I am actually going to skip out on this, which is a disappointment. Had they just been our traditional Space Marines, I would be grabbing this with no hesitation.

I expect GW to phase out their old marine models and all of them become Primaris eventually. Which means replacing all the current vehicles as they are too small.

gungo wrote:
Are there any online retailers that still do 20-25% off? Or has gw new online cart policy stopped all that?

Also I Am completely confused what a combat gauge does!!!

Its a small chuck of plastic. It looks like a rectangle with a chuck taken out of one corner. One side is 3 inches long, the other side is 2 inches long, and the short end is 1 inch long, so you can quickly and easily measure 1-3 inches without whipping out your tape measure. It could be useful for unit coherancy or something.

changemod wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:
The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.

Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.

I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.

That doesn't strike me as a problem at all. They can be seen and shot back at after they've revealed themselves, and it's not weird at all that a tank could plough through a ruin adequately well with the chance of a collapse immobilising the vehicle already represented in the rules.

So let me park all my taknks behind this wall with my guys on the walkway above and then charge my vehicles through to gain an advantage without losing the protection of the ruins that should collapse after having an entire loadbearing wall driven through.

Yeah, unless punching through a wall risks crumpling the building, it was just gamey and cheap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Oaka wrote:
No whippy sticks?!?!

No, GW took them away because they suspected that we were using them to beat the dead horse named "Squats".

 kronk wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
There will also be a new 40k app soon after release - we dont have much info yet but it could be a better choice price-wise

Source?

I can be one. They said that point blank at the AdeptiCon presentation in April.

Thanks, Kronk

They said so at the first Facebook live FAQ as well (afaik Pete Foley was doing it)

Q: "Will there be an App with army builder?"

A: "Working on it. Not on launch but after."

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/04/26/warhammer-40k-8th-edition-leak-compilation/ (near the bottom of the page)

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:
The average board around here has 3-4 bits of ruin terrain per 4*4 tile. I'm dreading having to gum up games trying to move around once perfectly navigable ruins because of that poorly thought out "walls are walls and not an abstraction for nebulous ruin terrain" rule.

Better than the strategy I've seen of using parking tanks behind walls that no one can see through and then driving through them like they were the Kool Aid Man chapter on their turn to shoot and the like.

I'd rather see walls become impassible terrain for movement than silliness like that all the time.

Yeh I havent got a huge amount of 40k experience under my belt, but the number of games I lost because I didn't realise the dude could basically move through that rather wall looking wall to flame half my orks dead.... yeh that was aids. Now it seems you'll have to actually think about the path to take. if it turns out the board has wayy too much terrain, just remember to try it with less terrain. We also have the ability to house-rule and to adjust stuff. So just see what works terrain wise.

 theharrower wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Previews:

Spoiler:

Ok so I presume flyers don't have to leave the table and return based on the wording for fly. This is awesome.

I wonder if 90 degree max pivot is gone for flyers, since you can't choose to fly off it doesn't make sense for them to get into a situation where they're forced into a corner and die.

No need to wonder, as you can see the Movement page above already.

That doesn't clear up flyers though. If flyers are still (somehow) restricted to that same limited turning, they will quickly go out of fashion as people learn that having a model that comes on for 1 turn then flies into oblivion is terrible.

Any model in any direction up to their max movemen stat is unclear how? It looks like for the sake if simplicity fliers work like skimmers.

Always exceptions to the rule. 90 degrees was an exception Flyers had to normal pivoting rules. It also made sense (how does a jet moving at 500+MPH turn on the spot without turning into VTOL mode and slowing way down and need to build speed up again). If that's as simple as it gets (Assume the flyer has VTOL pivoted or wheeled about) I'm fine with that, I'm just wondering whether FLyers will yet again be an exception to this normal pivoting rule.

Furthermore, if they ARE indeed able to turn as they please, how is any model going to move off the board and be destroyed? It would be different if a flyer could only turn a certain amount because you could be forced into a corner by bad foresight, but if they can just turn 180 and come back the way then there'll never be a situation where a model moves off on purpose.

I haven't seen any exceptions yet in this edition. There aren't going to be any rules for 90 degree pivots. Doesn't make any sense. As to how does a model move off the board and get destroyed? Simple. Flyer can't be placed because miniatures are in the way regardless of how it moves. With nowhere left to go, you fly off the table. Not that uncommon of a scenario.

considering all models in reserves die after turn 3 and falling back no longer exists. There is likely no more or little ongoing reserves and thus flyers can't choose to leave the board. However if a unit can't legally move or be placed on the board they will also die which I assume will also bring up interesting strategies.

 xttz wrote:
Previews:

Spoiler:

Many thanks for sharing!

Really digging the art style they're using for this edition, after the rather sterile look of 7th edition it's good to see this return!

So...need to buy the rulebook after all, along with all codexes becoming obsolete at once.

New CEO is craftier than I thought.

Wait, which book has the points?

gungo wrote:
Are there any online retailers that still do 20-25% off? Or has gw new online cart policy stopped all that?

Quite the opposite. The new policy allows for up to 20% off in a webstore. If you're in the US thewarstore.com is great, but you should shop local whenever possible.

 MisterMoon wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
From http://saltywargaming.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/warhammer-40k-8th-edition-pricing.html

Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00

So a 125 euros or 265 dollars for the starter. Not bad to be honest. The rules are also fairly cheaper respect the older books. THe indexes are the latest pricing bracket for Battletome, 25 euros. Not bad.

At the current exchange rate, $1.30 equals £1.00 (weak pound vs strong dollar)

Core Rules (5 Pages) Free
Dark Imperium Starter Set $123.50
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook $45.50
Tactical Objective Cards $10.40
Sector Imperialis Objectives $26.00
Command Dice $16.25
Wound Trackers $10.40
Combat Gauge $7.80
Indices (each) $19.50
Dark Imperium Novel $23.40

I guess these figures will be rounded and evened out, but this is the exact exchange rate.

Why are you doing this? C'mon people at this point I think we should all know exchange rate doesn't matter with GW and they will give you a prize based on their brackets. The starter will be 150 dollars.

I didn't ask if it was proven, I asked was it a possibility, and if not, why bother including that one rule about moving off the board, since previously the only time such things would occur unintentionally were Flyers and FMC being unable to turn enough to avoid that fate, and also because a model that can move in any direction it pleases can simply turn around and come back the way it came. It's a situation that will never come up in a year of months of sundays.

Oaka wrote:No whippy sticks?!?!

The bolded part is 100% the reason they don't do that anymore. Health and Safety. I know for a fact whippies were banned in my local store because when you give a 9 year old a whippy thing, the first thing he does is whip someone with it.

KTG17 wrote:Ugghh not crazy about the look of these new Marines. I hate the masks too. I know that design has been creeping up a bit, especially in the 30k stuff, but I prefer the classic grill.

I commend what GW is doing here, but while I prefer always buy the starter set, I am actually going to skip out on this, which is a disappointment. Had they just been our traditional Space Marines, I would be grabbing this with no hesitation.

I expect GW to phase out their old marine models and all of them become Primaris eventually. Which means replacing all the current vehicles as they are too small.

I am with you on this one pal, the forcing of Primaris marines in lieu of the classic marine is really saddening, as is the knowledge I'll never have a full chapter due to the Space Marine getting replaced with these monstrosities.

 Bulldogging wrote:
So...need to buy the rulebook after all, along with all codexes becoming obsolete at once.

New CEO is craftier than I thought.

Wait, which book has the points?

It helps that there's far less books to buy. As an eldar/harlequin/deldar player I'll only need to buy one book instead of three, all while having to pay less than the cheapest of the three.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 theharrower wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 ruprecht wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
[So your complaint is that the core rules are cheaper, but if you add in the "codex" cost for 8th edition and not for any other editions, it's more expensive? Great logic there.

No, my complaint is that the supposedly "free rules" release of 40k would cost me over $300 on launch day just for rules. Great reading there.

No, the problem is that you expected every part of the rules for free, which based on both the existing AoS model which also has free core rules and unit profiles - and is not exactly hard to find information on and also the information that we'd already been given was not realistic or likely, so I'm going with wilful ignorance on your part.

Charging for some of the rules is a tad bait and switchy. Personally, I don't care they need to make money, but I can understand why some people are a bit miffed. Really though, you can't complain about the pricing on this. The amount of win included in the boxed set is insane. This is far better than past GW edition releases.

There's no bait and switch. They're doing exactly what they said they'd do. That the internet turned that into FREE ROOLZ ALL RULES FREE is not GW's problem. From the off they were clear that you'd have to pay for faction and unit rules, core rules were free.

It's definitely misleading. Core rules may be free, but as I read it, you'll have to pay for unit rules. So... you can't actually play the game at all with the "free" rules... not even in Open Play mode. If core rules require a purchase to be usable, they aren't really free.

 Bulldogging wrote:
So...need to buy the rulebook after all, along with all codexes becoming obsolete at once.

New CEO is craftier than I thought.

Wait, which book has the points?

Consideringnthe massive change in game design invalidating all the books was a given. Just like when we moved from RT to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. It's less craftiness and more a side effect of game design changes.

If I understand correctly, both power and points should be in the faction books, with the match points seperate from the unit entries so all the options are together and easilly adjusted by errata if there is a problem with balance,

 Bulldogging wrote:
So...need to buy the rulebook after all, along with all codexes becoming obsolete at once.

New CEO is craftier than I thought.

Wait, which book has the points?

Index books will have the points.

I thought max discount with an online cart was 15% off not 20% off.....

Also, it seems they;ve taken a hint from other companies, like Steamforged, and gone to a multi-use ruler with quick and easy measurements around the edges.

I for one welcome our new Marines Lords and "Not Quite AoS Rules" 40k..

 MisterMoon wrote:


At the current exchange rate, $1.30 equals £1.00 (weak pound vs strong dollar)

Core Rules (5 Pages) Free
Dark Imperium Starter Set $123.50
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook $45.50
Tactical Objective Cards $10.40
Sector Imperialis Objectives $26.00
Command Dice $16.25
Wound Trackers $10.40
Combat Gauge $7.80
Indices (each) $19.50
Dark Imperium Novel $23.40

I guess these figures will be rounded and evened out, but this is the exact exchange rate.

They never do things as exchange rates. They have price brackets.

Dark Imperium Starter Set £95.00
Warhammer 40,000 8th:Rulebook £35
Tactical Objective Cards £8.00
Sector Imperialis Objectives £20
Command Dice £12.50
Wound Trackers £8.00
Combat Gauge £6.00
Indices £15.00 each
Dark Imperium Novel £18.00

You'd be looking at this:
20GBP price bracket=$35USD
6GBP=$10USD
8GBP=$12.50USD
12.50GBP=$20.75USD
15GBP=$22.25USD
35GBP=$57.75USD
95GBP=$157

I didn't do the novel because they've been roughly static in prices for awhile; at around $30 USD.