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 Galef wrote:
This call for "truescale" Marines has never made sense to me. The Marines were fine. It's everything else that is too big. We should be calling for smaller human sized models
This is a miniatures game after all.

Yes, since 1987 Citadel has made 'everything else" too big. That's risable. In Rogue Trader Marines were just really awesome humans in powered armour. Eldar are called out at 2 metres. At some point before 2E Marines became transhuman and grew to Shaq-like size. At this point it is indeed the Space Marines out of scale...

...but you bring up a good point, 40K is not a scale miniatures game. RT points this out at the beginning saying and an inch on the ground is about 2 metres. And historically, miniatures and ground scale have never been the same thing. The miniatures have never been marketed as scale models, which means they can't be in or out of scale--even with each other.

But, from a fluff and majesty point of view, 7E- Space Marines aren't just that impressive looking. Then throw in the Age of Sigmar stuff and they look downright funny.

It's still a miniature game. People play skirmish games in 40mm and 54mm, and they are still miniatures. Might be too big for some people's liking, but they are still minis compared to action figures.

I like the new Marines. Not sure how I should direct my 8E purchases. Love the Primaries Marines and really am impressed by the Nurgle stuff, but not my bag. Skipping the box set, I'd still be looking at the core book plus at least 4 of the 5 Indexes, unless data sheets are available. My interest is in games with power levels, so I might hold off on the indecies. Need more info though...

Plumbumbarum wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh really? "the new rules being garbage" - the rules we haven't even seen yet? You're just trolling, dude.

Even if the rules are garbage, the rules have been garbage for the last 2 or 3 editions so why now?

Old rules were garbage because of the lack of balance and shallow but bloated core rules. The new rules are even more shallow, go figure. That's simple to the point of dumb, I mean, vehicles without facing? Jesus.

Maybe they will fix it, they supposedly listen now. From what I've heard so far though, it's a worst edition of 40k, ruined from its very start.

@JohnyHell

No, dude.

Got to say, you do seem to be trolling, or at least suffering from old dog syndrome (Cuzco they can't learn new tricks)

Lack of vehicle facing is not a bad thing. It speeds play and lessens arguments. I have played, watched, and commented on dozens of games where there was an argument on Armor facings. Glad that is gone. Means more balance and streamlined rules.

As for the rules being shallow. How do you know? From a few teasers that don't give more than an inkling on how things actually work? Sorry, I can't agree. Having rules where those big gribblies get weaker as they take damage or having vehicles able to rush and charge into combat to unload their payloads of death. The rules allowing a Tactical Squad and Devastator squad to occupy the same Rhino then having that tactical squad be in the front, screening that important package of Devastators.

Sorry, rules seem balanced and enough of the shenanigans and loopholes exist far less than in other editions but Hey who cares. One less person is one less person. Go back and play your 2nd edition, or your 4th or whatever you prefer. Though I will point and laugh if you try it and like it.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The 'skids' on the feet might not even be that at all. Maybe they are very small grav-plates, like the bottom of the Landspeeder?

You may be on to something there.

Tyran wrote:

changemod wrote:

I think it's a fairly reasonable opinion to hold that the framework has been much the same since 3rd edition, and that a complete divorce from said framework instead of trying to rebuild it can be alienating.

Or in other words, something to the effect of "I liked 5th, why can't we more or less go back to 5th and redo the system tweaks that allow for new models to be less of a mess?"

Then find people that share that opinion and play 5th edition.

I was more annoyed at the dismissal of opinion on grounds of not having a 100% complete picture than anything, in a thread specifically for the discussion of what we know so far no less.

As for the part you quoted: My own opinion is more that the fluff is more of what I disliked about the heresy era fluff only magnified, and that the rules I've seen are a mixed bag with some very positive things and some needlessly negative things that would have been better left closer to how they are. I'll quite happily play the ruleset with a few internal grumbles such as the loss of templates and such.

But: Age of Sigmar is not even the same genre of game that came before. Instead of trying to revamp the mass battle system back to the last time it was successful and popular and try to patch it up, they just gave up entirely and did a new system.

So I can absolutely sympathise with someone infuriated that they didn't try to fix the framework that's worked since 3rd and only recently got so bloated as to seem unsalvagable. I can sympathise with "Why can't they just dial things back and try again? What is this stubborn adherence to attempted innovation that throws out the baby with the bath water?"

Not quite the same when 8th is at least the same type of game as 3-7, but as I say I have perspective to sympathise.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The 'skids' on the feet might not even be that at all. Maybe they are very small grav-plates, like the bottom of the Landspeeder?

You may be on to something there.

Which does help the hover theory

It almost looks like the Inceptors are using their bolt pistols to fly like the dude on youtube that's making his own Iron Man suit.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I just noticed this, but the Hellblasters only have three unique molds (Two each of two molds and the Sergeant). That's a bit disappointing. The Intercessors don't seem to have that problem. Oh well. I wish I could get a better look at the Hellblaster Sergeant to know if he has a helmet on his hip or not.

The Dark Imperium models will be snap-fit maybe that's why. I guess it can always be done mixed up when you get a regular hellblaster squad. Or just get 2 starters squad and make 4 of each, which i just might.

My local game shop just told me the prices. Starter is $160 , Rulebook is $60, and indexes are $25

 krazynadechukr wrote:
My local game shop just told me the prices. Starter is $160 , Rulebook is $60, and indexes are $25

Those prices sound entirely too reasonable.. are you sure?

 MLaw wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
My local game shop just told me the prices. Starter is $160 , Rulebook is $60, and indexes are $25

Those prices sound entirely too reasonable.. are you sure?

That's what he's telling me.

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

I agree 100%. I'm sure we will see a Primaris Rhino soon enough. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to reboot the Space Marines line.

I'm not sure what to think about the Death Guard being a size in-between old marine and Nu-Marines. It looks like they'll be there scales of marines at this rate.

EDIT: it actually looks like the Death Guard are in-size with the old marines. Which is surprising, as I thought they were taking this opportunity to size up the new guys together.

 theharrower wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

I agree 100%. I'm sure we will see a Primaris Rhino soon enough. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to reboot the Space Marines line.

Primaris Rhino are you saying?

Hmmm...

 theharrower wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

I agree 100%. I'm sure we will see a Primaris Rhino soon enough. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to reboot the Space Marines line.

Actually... the current Rhino is to scale for SoB. So once this phaseout happens they just repackage the current model, add a price hike, and call it a sororitas pattern. Then Sisters will officially have a plastic model that is just for them!

The Inceptors are the models catching my eye the most from this starter set, they remind me a lot of the Eldar Shadow Spectres Aspect Warriors with their large jet packs.

pizzaguardian wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I just noticed this, but the Hellblasters only have three unique molds (Two each of two molds and the Sergeant). That's a bit disappointing. The Intercessors don't seem to have that problem. Oh well. I wish I could get a better look at the Hellblaster Sergeant to know if he has a helmet on his hip or not.

The Dark Imperium models will be snap-fit maybe that's why. I guess it can always be done mixed up when you get a regular hellblaster squad. Or just get 2 starters squad and make 4 of each, which i just might.

True, but it is odd that only the Hellblasters seem to be the only ones that are that way.

theharrower wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

I agree 100%. I'm sure we will see a Primaris Rhino soon enough. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to reboot the Space Marines line.

There already is a Primaris Rhino though...

 keltikhoa wrote:

 theharrower wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

I agree 100%. I'm sure we will see a Primaris Rhino soon enough. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to reboot the Space Marines line.

Actually... the current Rhino is to scale for SoB. So once this phaseout happens they just repackage the current model, add a price hike, and call it a sororitas pattern. Then Sisters will officially have a plastic model that is just for them!

That's brilliant! You should probably delete your post before someone at GW sees it...


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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

theharrower wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
The phaseout is happening. Period. Rhino/Landraider/Landspeeder/Razorback are all 10+ years old. A lot of money to be had in making new kits for those.

I agree 100%. I'm sure we will see a Primaris Rhino soon enough. Honestly, I'm surprised it took this long to reboot the Space Marines line.

There already is a Primaris Rhino though...

Oh yeah, forgot about that silly thing. Wasn't it a Rhino Primaris though? Totally different! Ha. I guess for now we can call it a Restartes Rhino. I'm sure they'll come up with some new crazy high gothic name for it.

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 MLaw wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
My local game shop just told me the prices. Starter is $160 , Rulebook is $60, and indexes are $25

Those prices sound entirely too reasonable.. are you sure?

That's what he's telling me.

I have it confirmed from a pre-order list a store got ahold of that has all the release dates of Warhammer products (Blood bowl and AoS included)

 krazynadechukr wrote:
My local game shop just told me the prices. Starter is $160 , Rulebook is $60, and indexes are $25

I'll confirm that.

The starter is a very nice deal. I could see either half of the models selling for 100 dollrs. Both sets and a 60 dollar rulebook seems like a good price.

And a Heads Up: Stores that order a good chunk of boxes will have a demo set on the 3rd for you to drool over.

Stores ordering a bunch will also have the a set of the codices.

I plan on putting together and painting all my new Deathguard models on the 3rd, and making new lists for my orks

 Thargrim wrote:
I am a bit bummed they didn't leave the left shoulderpad on the primus marines seperate. They aren't even push fit like the blood bowl set so I figured they might be more customizable. I was really hoping i'd be able to avoid using wonky transfers but it looks like i'm gonna be stuck doing it. They are way too plain to be dark angels so it looks like i'm doing ultramarines or carcharadons or something. (won't do carcharadons either unless they rerelease the transfer sheet).

It's not all that hard to trim off the molded shoulder pads and using green stuff to fill underneath a Chapter specific shoulder pad. I had to do it with the new devastators. It is a little annoying but it doesn't take a lot of modeling skill to do it.

Median Trace wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
I am a bit bummed they didn't leave the left shoulderpad on the primus marines seperate. They aren't even push fit like the blood bowl set so I figured they might be more customizable. I was really hoping i'd be able to avoid using wonky transfers but it looks like i'm gonna be stuck doing it. They are way too plain to be dark angels so it looks like i'm doing ultramarines or carcharadons or something. (won't do carcharadons either unless they rerelease the transfer sheet).

It's not all that hard to trim off the molded shoulder pads and using green stuff to fill underneath a Chapter specific shoulder pad. I had to do it with the new devastators. It is a little annoying but it doesn't take a lot of modeling skill to do it.

Indeed. While I won't be cutting away the shoulder pauldrons, I do still plan to do some alterations. Definitely going to take care of those Helmetless heads. Some green stuff and pouch bits should be able to fix the site where the helmets used to be on the body.

To jump on the price discussion, here's the Australian prices (mate owns a LGS):

Rulebook - $98
Index Books - $40
Boxset - $220

Seriously? Did people stop doing press molds or something? Old school metal devastators you either had to press mold the chapter symbol or carve carve carve.. on.. solid metal.. so yeah. Press molding used to be all the rage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To jump on the price discussion, here's the Australian prices (mate owns a LGS):

Rulebook - $98000
Index Books - $40000
Boxset - $220000

There fixed it for ya

They haven't touched much on missions but looks like they are selling a new deck of Tactical Objective cards.

You can read the card on their site:
Big Game Hunter: "Score 1 victory point if at least one enemy units with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or more was destroyed during this turn. If at least one enemy unit with a Wounds characteristic of 20 or more was destroyed this turn, score D3 victory points instead."

So 7th edition maelstorm is still in...

 MLaw wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To jump on the price discussion, here's the Australian prices (mate owns a LGS):

Rulebook - $98000
Index Books - $40000
Boxset - $220000

There fixed it for ya

Yes, that is the price in dollarydoos.

Also what is that "Combat Gauge" supposed to be used for?

Orthon wrote:
Also what is that "Combat Gauge" supposed to be used for?

probably attack distance and consolidation moves.

 mikhaila wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
My local game shop just told me the prices. Starter is $160 , Rulebook is $60, and indexes are $25

I'll confirm that.

The starter is a very nice deal. I could see either half of the models selling for 100 dollrs. Both sets and a 60 dollar rulebook seems like a good price.

And a Heads Up: Stores that order a good chunk of boxes will have a demo set on the 3rd for you to drool over.

Stores ordering a bunch will also have the a set of the codices.

I plan on putting together and painting all my new Deathguard models on the 3rd, and making new lists for my orks

If that's true we can expect someone to leak the rules somewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoonBandito wrote:
To jump on the price discussion, here's the Australian prices (mate owns a LGS):

Rulebook - $98
Index Books - $40
Boxset - $220

That actually seems like a lot less than the usual markup doesn't it?

Orthon wrote:
Also what is that "Combat Gauge" supposed to be used for?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Combat-Gauge

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
Not a fan of the Primaris. While they still look like Space Marines, they have a more modern sci-fi visuals. I prefere my marines more crude and gothic.

This x1000. They just don't feel like space marines to me. Where are the oversized pauldrons? The heroic GW crouch? They look like if Michael Bay made a summer blockbuster about space marines adapted for the big screen and these are the miniature line based on that movie. They've lost a lot of the distinctive qualities that set space marines apart from other "modern" sci-fi.

They really look like iron mans knock off


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

changemod wrote:

JohnnyHell wrote:Oh really? "the new rules being garbage" - the rules we haven't even seen yet? You're just trolling, dude.

We have at this point seen quite a large chunk of the rules. Without a full picture we can't say how game balance is as that has so many interwoven factors, but we're getting an increasingly clear image of what the new edition is like, and the clearer it gets the thinner this kind of comment wears.

Also by the same logic, you could say that a positive opinion of the rules is groundless in identical proportion to a negative one. If we truly must have -everything- for an opinion to mean anything, then all we can really say at this point is "A ruleset exists".

Tyran wrote:Even if the rules are garbage, the rules have been garbage for the last 2 or 3 editions so why now?

I think it's a fairly reasonable opinion to hold that the framework has been much the same since 3rd edition, and that a complete divorce from said framework instead of trying to rebuild it can be alienating.

Or in other words, something to the effect of "I liked 5th, why can't we more or less go back to 5th and redo the system tweaks that allow for new models to be less of a mess?"

Because 5th was built on the same terrible rickety foundation all the other versions were and the only reason it seemed good was because it went for bland first.

As for the rules, you could have all 5 books memorized and not have a goddam clue what the game plays like until it hits the table.


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Plumbumbarum wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh really? "the new rules being garbage" - the rules we haven't even seen yet? You're just trolling, dude.

Even if the rules are garbage, the rules have been garbage for the last 2 or 3 editions so why now?

Old rules were garbage because of the lack of balance and shallow but bloated core rules. The new rules are even more shallow, go figure. That's simple to the point of dumb, I mean, vehicles without facing? Jesus.

Maybe they will fix it, they supposedly listen now. From what I've heard so far though, it's a worst edition of 40k, ruined from its very start.

@JohnyHell

No, dude.

Facings were stupid. Straight up. Why does a mainline battletank have a fully armored front and paper mache sides? Like no on ever shoots them at a 46 degree angle?

You can have a deep rule set without getting bogged down in things people have convinced themselves is somehow realistic when it's not at all. And the 'tactics' of facing was basically 'can you argue for longer than you're opponent that you're in side arc?

I'm no military specialist, but ain't a lot of modern tanks more armoured on the front cause they want to maintain some speed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Accolade wrote:
I'm not sure what to think about the Death Guard being a size in-between old marine and Nu-Marines. It looks like they'll be there scales of marines at this rate.

EDIT: it actually looks like the Death Guard are in-size with the old marines. Which is surprising, as I thought they were taking this opportunity to size up the new guys together.

yeah, really hate that the chaos marines are now smaller than numarines :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the poxwalkers are alright, not as cool as the chaos cultits but alright. But they tried too much with them and they kind of have a forsaken vibe. Which is not a good thing