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2017/05/26 13:45:25
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
But.. the datasheets for every unit are gonna be free PDFs too right, so you don't really need the books?
I guess you will need the index books since you will find the pt costs in there.
If the data sheets are free as the warscrolls in AoS, I don't know.
My understanding is that point costs will be in the BRB, not the index books. This is so they can update all points costs without invalidating individual "codex" style books.
2017/05/26 13:49:25
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
My understanding is that point costs will be in the BRB, not the index books. This is so they can update all points costs without invalidating individual "codex" style books.
The index books will probably have the points. They are also temporary until "proper codexes" come out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/26 13:49:41
2017/05/26 13:50:27
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
But.. the datasheets for every unit are gonna be free PDFs too right, so you don't really need the books?
I guess you will need the index books since you will find the pt costs in there.
If the data sheets are free as the warscrolls in AoS, I don't know.
My understanding is that point costs will be in the BRB, not the index books. This is so they can update all points costs without invalidating individual "codex" style books.
40k Facebook confirmed that points are in the index books. They aren't, however, on the datasheets, but in an index style page in the back of the book. Presumably there will be a wargear table back there with how much stuff costs too so you can write down everything you're taking, and then jump to the back to get the points and do math on what that unit costs in total.
2017/05/26 13:51:04
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
How is it 'heavily stripped down... for some mindless fun'? It isn't. Scenarios, playstyles (eg Cityfight), missions may add layers of nuance, but the rules are the same. Nothing is stripped down. Rather the reverse - you add complexity if you want it. The "Cityfight Maelstrom Matched Play" Starbucks-length-title format is not inherently 'better' or the default... that's part of their move to Three Ways To Play. Indeed, I see myself using that type of game infrequently.
I never said such a thing was the default.... but it is still a stripped down version of Open Play and as a whole still a stripped down version of the full rules.
But let's be real here, for many people Matched Play or Narrative Play will be the defaults.
Oh for sure. I just dispute 'heavily stripped down' when the whole core game is intact and only really cover rules and missions will change. It was too loaded a choice of words to me, is all. It's simpler, not stripped down. And isn't the core rules Open Play? Just keen on accuracy amidst so much angst in this thread. :-)
It's Open Play with 1/4 of the Missions.
Unless there's more to Open Play in the Main Rulebook that we don't know.
The free core rules of 8th Edition are literally a heavily stripped down version as compared to the 'full rules' of 8th Edition AND as compared to 7th Edition or most any prior edition. There's no getting around that. Existing gamers expect certain things from 40k... points, for example. The free rules represent a stripped down, super basic version of what people expect. I know A LOT of people who play or have played 40k. I don't know anyone who seriously expects to play any games using just the free rules.
If this is anything like Age of Sigmar, the majority of players won't consider anything other than Matched Play. All organized events will be Matched Play. Some people will play Narrative, but generally only with close friends. Open Play will be rare.
The free rules sort of feel like demo or tutorial rules. "Don't worry about mission objectives or strategems or making sure your armies are balanced. Let's just roll some dice and learn how movement and combat work. You can read up on the full rules after you learn the basics."
A demo for something many of us have spent a lot of money on already. Seriously, I wish they would just do a smaller cheaper soft back copy for like £20. I'd pay that and it means I can actually carry it! If we were all more critical of this tactics (let's face it, basically drug dealer tactics ) then they might do it more like D&D where the rules are fully free and you pay for codex and models only. Sure they're a business, but many businesses are far more successful and still don't use these tactics. Look at the avarge guy who looks at GW. They think "Do I buy this new game on ps4 for £50 or do I buy this book and models which I then have to buy more of for £100-200". And I'm also sick of the whole "hoppy costs money" argument. Hobbies do not cost this much! Gw scumbag tactics are the reason why I have only bought from ebay for the last few years. I've spent about £200 over the time but I have two armies and saved about £600. And I do support my game store, but it's not a gw store. It's a general hobby and game store with like 10 tables you can just play on for free with no need to book.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/26 13:54:31
2017/05/26 13:51:41
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
They didn't put them on the dataslate. but I am pretty sure they are in the index. By not putting them on the dataslate you can copy and laminate the dataslate for table usage. Then use the points out of the back of the index or the yearly update to build your army.
2017/05/26 13:53:46
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
How is it 'heavily stripped down... for some mindless fun'? It isn't. Scenarios, playstyles (eg Cityfight), missions may add layers of nuance, but the rules are the same. Nothing is stripped down. Rather the reverse - you add complexity if you want it. The "Cityfight Maelstrom Matched Play" Starbucks-length-title format is not inherently 'better' or the default... that's part of their move to Three Ways To Play. Indeed, I see myself using that type of game infrequently.
I never said such a thing was the default.... but it is still a stripped down version of Open Play and as a whole still a stripped down version of the full rules.
But let's be real here, for many people Matched Play or Narrative Play will be the defaults.
Oh for sure. I just dispute 'heavily stripped down' when the whole core game is intact and only really cover rules and missions will change. It was too loaded a choice of words to me, is all. It's simpler, not stripped down. And isn't the core rules Open Play? Just keen on accuracy amidst so much angst in this thread. :-)
It's Open Play with 1/4 of the Missions.
Unless there's more to Open Play in the Main Rulebook that we don't know.
The free core rules of 8th Edition are literally a heavily stripped down version as compared to the 'full rules' of 8th Edition AND as compared to 7th Edition or most any prior edition. There's no getting around that. Existing gamers expect certain things from 40k... points, for example. The free rules represent a stripped down, super basic version of what people expect. I know A LOT of people who play or have played 40k. I don't know anyone who seriously expects to play any games using just the free rules.
If this is anything like Age of Sigmar, the majority of players won't consider anything other than Matched Play. All organized events will be Matched Play. Some people will play Narrative, but generally only with close friends. Open Play will be rare.
The free rules sort of feel like demo or tutorial rules. "Don't worry about mission objectives or strategems or making sure your armies are balanced. Let's just roll some dice and learn how movement and combat work. You can read up on the full rules after you learn the basics."
A demo for something many of us have spent a lot of money on already. Seriously, I wish they would just do a smaller cheaper soft back copy for like £20. I'd pay that and it means I can actually carry it! If we were all more critical of this tactics (let's face it, basically drug dealer tactics ) then they might do it more like D&D where the rules are fully free and you pay for codex and models only. Sure they're a business, but my businesses are far more successful and still don't use these tactics. Look at the avarge guy who looks at GW. They think "Do I buy this new game on ps4 for £50 or do I buy this book and models which I then have to buy more of for £100-200". And I'm also sick of the whole "hoppy costs money" argument. Hobbies do not cost this much! Gw scumbag tactics are the reason why I have only bought from ebay for the last few years. I've spent about £200 over the time but I have two armies and saved about £600.
When they rebooted Warhammer Fantasy 5th Ed, they gave us free temp army lists. The $100 it's going to cost me to get temp lists for the armies I've already spent tons of money on bothers me a little.
Inquisitor Jex wrote: Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote: So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
2017/05/26 13:53:48
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
[grognard]
Man! I went through the RT to 2nd Edition era and had to get all new books AND I went through the 2nd to 3rd edition era and had to get all new books. I do not remember this level of saltiness about it. Cripes! Buying new books with a new edition is what happens to nearly every book based game in existence.
Get over it. New editions means buying new books. This is the first time that even the core rules have been free for 40k.
Back then we were excited to get something new, not complaining that it meant new products.
Points are the foundation of the game. If they're making kt harder to find these points by having to flip back and forth then they're purposeful trying to get us into this new BS power level crap.
2017/05/26 13:59:05
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
docdoom77 wrote: [grognard]
Man! I went through the RT to 2nd Edition era and had to get all new books AND I went through the 2nd to 3rd edition era and had to get all new books. I do not remember this level of saltiness about it. Cripes! Buying new books with a new edition is what happens to nearly every book based game in existence.
Get over it. New editions means buying new books. This is the first time that even the core rules have been free for 40k.
Back then we were excited to get something new, not complaining that it meant new products.
[\grognard]
The internet has always been saltier than the dead sea, local gaming communities tend to be less salty. Something about posting online where people can't see who you are tends to make just about everyone saltier.
2017/05/26 13:59:29
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
lolman1c wrote: Points are the foundation of the game. If they're making kt harder to find these points by having to flip back and forth then they're purposeful trying to get us into this new BS power level crap.
How is the points being on the last few pages any more flipping than the points being on a few dozen pages on each of the unit's sheets, and an armory section, as it is now?
2017/05/26 14:00:12
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
lolman1c wrote: Points are the foundation of the game. If they're making kt harder to find these points by having to flip back and forth then they're purposeful trying to get us into this new BS power level crap.
No, they're making it easier to change those points year on year - improving balance of the game over time.
2017/05/26 14:01:47
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
lolman1c wrote: Points are the foundation of the game. If they're making kt harder to find these points by having to flip back and forth then they're purposeful trying to get us into this new BS power level crap.
You need to cut your salt intake.GW has clearly, plainly and openly stated that points will be seperate from the datasheets so that they can finetune them without needing to redo all the datasheets that'd be affected.
For example, if they changed the cost of a Tactical Marine they'd need to redo every single unit that contains Tactical Marines. Instead they can just redo the points page.
2017/05/26 14:01:52
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
Seriously, I wish they would just do a smaller cheaper soft back copy for like £20. I'd pay that and it means I can actually carry it! If we were all more critical of this tactics (let's face it, basically drug dealer tactics ) then they might do it more like D&D where the rules are fully free and you pay for codex and models only. .
Except that DND is not fully free. You can get the basic rules free, but not the whole game. This is pretty similar really.
If GW put out say, ultra marines and Orks data sheets free, then it would be pretty much identical in marketing method.
Guess what, that smaller cheap softback you want... It's the index books combined with the free download rules.
Speaking of which, I'm so holding out hope for the core rules to be in the index books.
2017/05/26 14:03:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
My local golf course membership is £3,000 per year. Hobbies cost what they cost, wargaming isn't close to the top end.
Sure it costs more than collecting seashells from the beach, but you pays your money and takes your
choice.
I suppose the club expects you to buy a new set of glof clubs every year when they slightly change the rules to the game. Does nobody see this as a problem? Are we all okay with just handing over money every year to continue to play with stuff we already own? I guess I better buy a computer then everytime Microsoft updates windows...
2017/05/26 14:05:06
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
My local golf course membership is £3,000 per year. Hobbies cost what they cost, wargaming isn't close to the top end.
Sure it costs more than collecting seashells from the beach, but you pays your money and takes your
choice.
I suppose the club expects you to buy a new set of glof clubs every year when they slightly change the rules to the game. Does nobody see this as a problem? Are we all okay with just handing over money every year to continue to play with stuff we already own? I guess I better buy a computer then everytime Microsoft updates windows...
Do you have proof that the yearly patches will be in book form and not downloadable pdf?
Let's make claims with no evidence.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/26 14:05:58
2017/05/26 14:06:14
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
I am looking at using my indices in the following manner.
1) Scan in all the units I personally own.
2) Print a half size copy of each Dataslate
3) Print/Type out the section related to that dataslate from the points
4) Put both sheets back to back
5) Laminate them with 7mm laminate to make a nice thick dataslate
This should give me table dataslates about the size of the minibook. Which fit nicely in the army case. Since, it's a copy of each of the ones I own models to. That should make it so, I don't have to haul around too many book.
2017/05/26 14:07:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/26 14:08:21
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/05/26 14:07:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
By now, unless you’ve been hiding under a rock on the far side on Luna, you’ve probably seen the awesome contents of the upcoming Dark Imperium box.
We’ve already seen the stats for the Intercessors, but they are just one of the new units. Today we take a look at a couple more.
Let’s start with the leader, the Captain in Gravis armour.
Space Marine Captains should be amongst the most feared warriors in the galaxy, but a lot of the time today, they are looked down on compared to other characters that can bring more utility to an army.
Not anymore!
Every Space Marines army is going to want one of these guys at its head. Like all the Space Marines’ greatest commanders, he’s great at combat in all forms, hitting up close and at range on a 2+. That Gravis armour brings some benefits too. While lacking some of the impenetrable defence against small arms fire that Terminator armour brings, it makes up for that with an increased Toughness, meaning even heavy weaponry will struggle to bring him down easily. He has 6 Wounds, which is pretty solid too, though Characters generally have more Wounds in the new Warhammer 40,000 – even a lascannon will be lucky to kill him in a single shot.
Maybe the main reason you bring this guy though is for the re-roll to hit he provides to those nearby. This ability is awesome on things like Tactical and Intercessor Squads, even better on Devastator Squads, and on plasma-toting Hellblasters? Well, we’ll just let you work that one out….
Next up, the Inceptor Squad, These guys are the Primaris Space Marines’ answer to a lot of things: they combine the speed of Assault Squads, the durability of units like Bikes and the ability to drop in from space mid-battle, AND they pack a fair combat punch as they make a charge. Oh, and those guns are basically hand held heavy bolters (albeit, with a much reduced range). We expect to see these guys in a lot of Space Marines armies very soon.
That’s just two of the new units in the Dark Imperium box.
We’re off to Warhammer Fest this weekend, so stay tuned for all the latest news about the new Warhammer 40,000 coming from the Richo Arena in Coventry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/26 14:08:08
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2017/05/26 14:07:56
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 25 May 2017: Missions/Ork focus/FB #17(all info in OP)
Not really interested in the new Marines but it looks like 10" will be the move value for Jump pack troops?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
3000 point 
