40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**warboss**

Oaka wrote:
warboss wrote:

Where is the three detachment rule stated? I've been catching up and admittedly haven't followed every image gallery link for each faction but the pic on the last page didn't mention detachments but rather keywords/factions. It's not that I doubt you both but rather I'm just curious as to what else I missed.

Spoiler:

While it's just a suggestion for tournaments, these rules were heavily play-tested by the major tournament organizers, yes?

Cool, thanks for the pic. It definitely feels lifted right out of the ITC playbook as iirc 3 detachments in a "standard" game played on a 6x4 table is what they use with the current ruleset.

**Asmodai**

Powerfisting wrote:
Asmodai wrote:
Grinshanks wrote:
I know everyone got their knickers in a twist over the formation crazy last edition.

But now that everything has been leaked, this editions seems really, reeeeally bland.

Seems like everything rule has been reduced to -save and D6 damage.

Read the lists in the back of the 3rd ed. rulebook and your reaction would be similar. These are get-you-by lists until the full Codexes come out for each army. For that, they're actually much better than the 3rd ed. ones were.

These leaks look like they're coming from the real books though, not printouts or WD pages. Unless you mean the bigger books are stopgap and proper codexes as we know them now are gonna come later? that sort of ruins the whole anthology codex approach to me.

Stopgaps are exactly what the Indexes are - there's a reason why they're Indexes and not Codexes.

**Luciferian**

Good god, people are complaining that they can't take Necrons with Tau

**Ghaz**

Verviedi wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

...lol. Little late, are we, GW?

Not really. It's nice to have confirmation on little things that looked too good in the leaks, like Reanimation Protocols can indeed bring back that Necron Warrior who died turn one on turn five, etc.

**SeanDrake**

Grinshanks wrote:
I know everyone got their knickers in a twist over the formation crazy last edition.

But now that everything has been leaked, this editions seems really, reeeeally bland.

Seems like everything rule has been reduced to -save and D6 damage.

Like I said be careful what you wish for as it looks exactly like AoS bespoke rules for every unit which are mostly the same thing with different names.

You will mostly get: re-roll all 1's, +1 to the roll, -1 to the roll and thYAWNnn zźzzzzzzzzzzzzz

**theharrower**

Luciferian wrote:
Good god, people are complaining that they can't take Necrons with Tau

Seriously.

**JohnU**

lolman1c wrote:
Latro_ wrote:
lolman1c wrote:
God dammit I need to know if my 8 Kans will actually get some use in 8th ed! XD

here you go bro

<3333333 Holy cow guys!!! You can have three Deff Dreads in a unit!!!! Guyzzzzs! GUUUUUUUUUUUUYZ!

At ~150 points each, sure.

**theharrower**

Ghaz wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

...lol. Little late, are we, GW?

Not really. It's nice to have confirmation on little things that looked too good in the leaks, like Reanimation Protocols can indeed bring back that Necron Warrior who died turn one on turn five, etc.

Yes really. Every Index leaked already. Who needs insight when we literally have all of the army rules now?

**NivlacSupreme**

I feel like the tournament guys being involved might make the game too "clinical". You know, simple, dumbed down and not following the fluff to make a new game.

EDIT: New wasn't the word I was looking for. More along the lines of a game that goes really quickly so that they can determine who wins faster and isn't very in depth.

**changemod**

I can't see any way to transport a character with a transported Necron unit. :I

Also it seems to be pushing silver tide super hard, which is kinda annoying given, well put it this way: I own 11,000 points worth of Necrons but I only have 20 warriors.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NivlacSupreme wrote:
I feel like the tournament guys being involved might make the game too "clinical". You know, simple, dumbed down and not following the fluff to make a new game.

Yeah just because this system is tidier than 7th doesn't mean it's not a much less interesting system than the 3rd framework.

**Luciferian**

changemod wrote:
I own 11,000 points worth of Necrons but I only have 20 warriors.

Well, at least that's kind of impressive in itself. I get it though, I do my best to avoid troops at all costs.

**Desubot**

theharrower wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

...lol. Little late, are we, GW?

Not really. It's nice to have confirmation on little things that looked too good in the leaks, like Reanimation Protocols can indeed bring back that Necron Warrior who died turn one on turn five, etc.

Yes really. Every Index leaked already. Who needs insight when we literally have all of the army rules now?

any fluff tidbits

i still want to know how the adeptus restarties are structured inside adeptus retiredes

**Latro_**

zerosignal wrote:
buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Ok i'm gonna put this in bold just for other posters
your army is not invalid
just because those units do not have the DEATH GUARD faction keyword does not mean they do not have the CHAOS faction keyword
you can use those units in any army or detachment ALONG with DEATH GUARD unit because BOTH have the CHAOS keyword.

no your havocs are not T5 all that jaz, but everyone is reporting everything being generic... marines no chapter tactics etc

**Ghaz**

theharrower wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

...lol. Little late, are we, GW?

Not really. It's nice to have confirmation on little things that looked too good in the leaks, like Reanimation Protocols can indeed bring back that Necron Warrior who died turn one on turn five, etc.

Yes really. Every Index leaked already. Who needs insight when we literally have all of the army rules now?

No. As I stated, it's nice to have a 'Yes, this is really how it works' to some of the things we've seen in the leaks.

**Kornath**

Sort of hoped that Necron Crypteks could buy some nice new gear, but that turned out to be a futile hope ;_;

**Cephalobeard**

Have we found all the CP uses yet?

**Vash108**

Powerfisting wrote:
Asmodai wrote:
Grinshanks wrote:
I know everyone got their knickers in a twist over the formation crazy last edition.

But now that everything has been leaked, this editions seems really, reeeeally bland.

Seems like everything rule has been reduced to -save and D6 damage.

Read the lists in the back of the 3rd ed. rulebook and your reaction would be similar. These are get-you-by lists until the full Codexes come out for each army. For that, they're actually much better than the 3rd ed. ones were.

These leaks look like they're coming from the real books though, not printouts or WD pages. Unless you mean the bigger books are stopgap and proper codexes as we know them now are gonna come later? that sort of ruins the whole anthology codex approach to me.

They did the same thing in AoS with their Grand Alliance Books right?

**davethepak**

flakpanzer wrote:
So the text of the Woods terrain in the Advanced section of the Rulebook reads as follows:

INFANTRY units that are entirely on the base of a wood receive the benefit of cover. If your wood is not on a base, discuss with your opponent what the boundary of the wood is before the battle begins.

OTHER UNITS only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is actually obscured from the point of view of the shooting unit.

Does that mean that if I have a unit on one side of a wood that is shooting at your INFANTRY unit completely on the opposite side of the wood, there is no penalty (as long as I can see models to shoot them)?

Personally, look at the woods - do they make it harder to see the models on the other side? if you modeled them densely, they should.

This is where you just ask the other player - "hey, I did not buy a ton of trees for this, but you wanna say it gives cover shooting across it"

**Vash108**

Kornath wrote:
Sort of hoped that Necron Crypteks could buy some nice new gear, but that turned out to be a futile hope ;_;

Yeah, I was hoping for options like in 6th Codex

**theharrower**

Desubot wrote:
theharrower wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

...lol. Little late, are we, GW?

Not really. It's nice to have confirmation on little things that looked too good in the leaks, like Reanimation Protocols can indeed bring back that Necron Warrior who died turn one on turn five, etc.

Yes really. Every Index leaked already. Who needs insight when we literally have all of the army rules now?

any fluff tidbits

i still want to know how the adeptus restarties are structured inside adeptus retiredes

Rippy has been doing an AMAZING job of linking all of this stuff in the first post of this thread. Everything available is there. I haven't seen the Primaris Book that comes with the Boxed Set leaked yet. That has all the fluff in it for the NuMarines.

**Enginseer Kalashnikov**

Swara wrote:
zerosignal wrote:
buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

**davethepak**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Therion wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
Therion wrote:

The Wraithknight has 4 attacks. It can fight a monster or a vehicle, yes, but against infantry units, of which you will see plenty of, he won't do anything. Before he would've stomped around, now he has his 4 attacks.

Check again. The wraithknight can take 12 S8 -2 D3 attacks versus infantry.

Yeah my mistake. Yet, it's still nothing when you factor the 502 point price tag. 41 points per attack? Yeah...

The Wraithknight could be overpriced as much as 100 points.

A tac marine with a power fist provides 1 S8 -3 D3 attack for 33 points. With T4 and no invuln.
A terminator gets 2 for 51 points.

Both with -1 to hit.

Think it over some more...

Almost all of the superbig models do nothing compared to their points in basic troops - this is COMMON.

nothing is wrong with the WK. Or the tesseract vault, or the stompa (900+ points) or the knight titan.

I hate to say it, but can we let this one go? its not about the eldar - its about all big units, and with a few exceptions, has been like this for a while.

**CountCyrus**

Is it just me or do Leman Russ' seem disturbingly weak for what used to be an AV14 vehicle?

1 T and 2 W tougher than a rhino?

Just noticed a valkyrie has 14! And hard to hit! What the hell!

Also, chimeras and rhinos are identical? Where'd my AV12 go? Same place as my fire points I guess.

Why do artillery, some of which were open topped, have an extra wound?

Lastly, rest in peace Exterminator, twin link will be missed.

**dosmill**

Taking into account the leaks and whatnot, how does one go about creating an iyanden army list in 8th edition?

Do I simply take the wraithguard units and hope I have enough points to fulfill detachments etc? Forgive me if I am confused, but, well, I am.

**Kornath**

Vash108 wrote:
Kornath wrote:
Sort of hoped that Necron Crypteks could buy some nice new gear, but that turned out to be a futile hope ;_;

Yeah, I was hoping for options like in 6th Codex

Yeah, we sort of feel a bit bland.. we even lost 3 C'tan powers

**RegulusBlack**

Invalid - Vendetta, I did not see a profile in the IG book....

**Rydria**

theharrower wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-necrons/

...lol. Little late, are we, GW?

Not really. It's nice to have confirmation on little things that looked too good in the leaks, like Reanimation Protocols can indeed bring back that Necron Warrior who died turn one on turn five, etc.

Yes really. Every Index leaked already. Who needs insight when we literally have all of the army rules now?

Do you have a link for the chaos index ?

**Breng77**

Therion wrote:
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Liberal_Perturabo wrote:
Oh great, my AdMech army just got gutted for the most part. Thanks GW.
Rangers and vanguard received a huge nerf with massive leadership reduction and no longer being able to shield them with Dominus or Cawl. Not to mention that AP4 galvanic rifles now only get a whopping -1 AP on 6s to wound, while scout sniper rifles throw out mortal wounds.
Doctrina imperatives are no more, while canticles got reduced in power.
Ruststalkers and infiltrators did get a cost reduction, while having most of their neat special rules removed, which was the very point of taking them.
Servitors did get +1 wound, but got significantly more expencive. Not to mention that heavy arc rifle is now some sick joke of a weapon, wounding most of the vehicles on 5+, while torsion cannon is just a worse version of multimelta. So much for technological superiority I guess.
The only units that received a clear buff are the units that were fine in the first place - techpriest dominus, dunecrawlers and a certain unit of extremely ugly robots.
There is one exeption though. Ironstriders and dragoons are now viable. That was a good change.

Right? It is like they heard people complain about the WarConvo, but didn't realize it was literally only the formation that was the issue, not the army or its rules.

I am hopeful that when we get a proper Codex, with whatever <FORGE WORLD> options are included, it gives us a bit more. I still love the army, because the models are gorgeous, but sheesh we took a nerfbat!

Also, looking through everything - what didn't go up in price for most folks? Seems like everything got real expensive now. Is the game going to stay at 1850-2000 with less on the table or go up to 2250-2500 to accommodate the price hikes?

Personally I think the points are a bit off. Some units are wildly expensive. A Wraithknight comes in at 502 points for 24 T8 3+ wounds. Yet for 500 points you can take 5 Razorbacks with twin assault cannons, for 50 T7 3+ wounds. Sure, the Wraithknight shoots 4 times with his mega lascannons, but the Razorbacks shoot 60 times with S6 guns and are twice as durable AND can move other guys around. I'm just not seeing what the 500+ price point is supposed to be buying. No special close combat rules, no feel no pain or other fancy rules. Just a 500+ point guy with 4 lascannons and a couple 'power fist' attacks.

You fail to note that you cannot take 5 razorbacks for 500 points, as you are required to buy a unit to take them. Which adds what looks to me to be a minimum of 55 points per razorback so those 5 razorbacks end up costing 775 points. You also need to buy an HQ in any detachment allowing them. It appears you could use the auxiliary detachments to take some but in matched play that will use up a whole detachment (if detachment recommendations are followed). Sure you get the units in them, but if you are going straight damage out put You could take 3 Wraithknights at ~1500 pts, and you would stretch to fit 10 Razorbacks with minimal squads.

**Vorian**

Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Swara wrote:
zerosignal wrote:
buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

**Kharne the Befriender**

Here's a question or two:

Does the Imperium Index have all the rules for the Primaris Marines?

If not, is the book that comes with Dark Imperium basically Codex Primaris?