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 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 Grinshanks wrote:
I know everyone got their knickers in a twist over the formation crazy last edition.

But now that everything has been leaked, this editions seems really, reeeeally bland.

Seems like everything rule has been reduced to -save and D6 damage.

Nothing we shouldn't be expecting already, to be honest. This would be the simplest way to achieve the desired streamlining and keeping tabs on balance.

My only true pet peeve with this edition is the removal of wound allocation to the nearest model in the shooting phase.

Removing models from the front plus Overwatch (not to mention Tau uber-Overwatch) fethed assault armies so hard over the past two editions. Good riddance to that gakky mechanic.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jamopower wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

Have GW confirmed a couple of weeks for the Codex? No, they themselves have not. We've only gotten the rumours.

If the Indexes are a 'stop gap' list then why remove units that would effectively be stop-gap units until the Faction book was released? Particularly when those missing units have been staple of that faction's playerbase's armies for 4 editions now?

Imagine you're a Blood Angel player and suddenly you can't take assault squads.

'Oh, but rumours say you'll get a new Codex soon.' 'It's just a stop gap.'

Yet you've had Assault Marines as part of your army for 4 editions. All your old army fluff features assault marines. Would you really be happy that a core of your army was torn out from a stop gap list based on a rumour that has yet to be confirmed?

Back in 3rd/4th, death guard used to get almost only plague marines, no bikes, no raptors, etc. After that there were no death guard for a long while and the legion codex finally came like last year. I guess it didn't have plague marine bikers either?

Would you like me to fish out the original Index Astartes list from 3rd edition? Where we had Cult Terminators, Plague Marines, Havocs (that took special weapons), Veterans (now called Chosen) and our restriction was the amount of transports we took? Or are you trying to imply that I'm upset about bikes - which I personally never used and were only a thing for a grand total of 6 months with Traitor Legions.

Read up. My concerns are the fact that Terminators, Chosen and Havocs have completely disappeared from our options. Even more laughable is the fact that Sorcerers with Palanquins are ALSO not available to Death Guard.

Think we should be careful for the casual poster reading the forum
they have not completely disappeared as an option... they are just not T5 etc

Anyone have the one drive link? I can't find it all those pages back. Thanks!

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

If that's true it kind of puts a damper on my plan to start up CSM's. May have to run a different legion instead, as I really like Havocs, Raptors, and Termies

 jamopower wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

Have GW confirmed a couple of weeks for the Codex? No, they themselves have not. We've only gotten the rumours.

If the Indexes are a 'stop gap' list then why remove units that would effectively be stop-gap units until the Faction book was released? Particularly when those missing units have been staple of that faction's playerbase's armies for 4 editions now?

Imagine you're a Blood Angel player and suddenly you can't take assault squads.

'Oh, but rumours say you'll get a new Codex soon.' 'It's just a stop gap.'

Yet you've had Assault Marines as part of your army for 4 editions. All your old army fluff features assault marines. Would you really be happy that a core of your army was torn out from a stop gap list based on a rumour that has yet to be confirmed?

Back in 3rd/4th, death guard used to get almost only plague marines, no bikes, no raptors, etc. After that there were no death guard for a long while and the legion codex finally came like last year. I guess it didn't have plague marine bikers either?

As promised - here's your education from 3rd edition onwards.

First up we have Index Astartes Death Guard. Note the artwork. Note the army list. This was a list to be used with the 3rd ed skinny Chaos Codex.



Then we have the 3.5 Codex that served us faithfully til the 4th ed Codex came around. Note the Death Guard rules and the table of what could and could not have the Mark of Nurgle. With the late 4th ed book we gained some Mark options (but a strange icon system) and, well, we're familiar with 6th and 7th edition. To state 'there was no Death Guard armies' would be a fallacy. Just because we didn't get Chapter Tactics spoonfed to us doesn't mean we ceased to exist. People picked Nurgle themed armies still and many would still have considered themselves Death Guard players.

frankr wrote:
8th edition rule book pg 175:
"A codex is the ultimate resource for your chosen army (or armies!), containing datasheets for the miniautres that are part of a particular Faction. But that's not all - in codexes you'll also find army-specific specail rules that reflect the character of the army and exciting Warlord Traits, Stratagems, wargear, and even unique relics"

Sounds like a lot more than flavor text.

Sounds exactly like the last three battle tomes for Age of Sigmar. Which is a very good thing.

Crimson Hunters seem pretty good, relative to other options. 180ish points for 4 anti-tank shots on T6 W12 with Hard to Hit. They have a minimum movement but can pivot after moving, so it's not too bad. They're always shooting at -1 but they have BS 2+. I'm not sure how Eldar infantry are likely to fare (it seems that Guardian Defender weapons platforms shoot at -1 if they move, even), but Serpents and Hunters look solid.

Ynnari seems like the way to go. Craftworld Eldar get Battle Focus, which basically only lets you advance and shoot. You can take literally every Craftworld unit other than the Avatar as a Ynnari unit instead, and the ones with Battle Focus exchange it for Strength from Death.

I'm not sure this is intended, but it also looks like the Ynnari psychic power Word of the Phoenix lets /any/ Ynnari unit do a Soulburst action, not just those that have the Strength from Death ability. Which means a Ynnari psyker (granted, this is limited to Yvraine and the Yncarne) can give almost any Craftworld or Dark Eldar unit, including stuff like the Wraithknight, a bonus Shooting phase or a bonus move before charging.

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

Except you can because they are there as generic Chaos which are the same army

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

Spot on. They're completely omitted. And it's worrying because - if it's a stop gap list - why remove them? Why tactically cripple us for 1-2 weeks or so if not longer? It's worrying because what if we get shafted.

Oh, GW released new Death Guard Terminators. They can only be armed with X and Y. Everyone with existing Terminators from the past 4 editions gets shown the door if they're armed differently.

And new Havocs! Oh yeah! Only armed with X and Y. Armed differently? Too bad!

I don't like the thought of being pigeonholed into being forced to buy a new kit for an army I've played for YEARS virtually unchanged. Like the example I gave - imagine Blood Angels suddenly losing Assault Squads. Or more extreme, Ultramarines can no longer take Tactical Squads. You instead get GUILITACS armed with X and Y. All your Tactical Marines are now invalid! HaHAA!

See how concerning that is?

I don't like the thought of being pigeonholed into being forced to buy a new kit for an army I've played for YEARS virtually unchanged. Like the example I gave - imagine Blood Angels suddenly losing Assault Squads. Or more extreme, Ultramarines can no longer take Tactical Squads. You instead get GUILITACS armed with X and Y. All your Tactical Marines are now invalid! HaHAA!

dude are you even reading replies to your posts you can take them they are just not marked
what you are saying is, i can't have havocs with T5 and fnp so therefore i can't have havocs... Not the same

its like salamanders players not having epic flamers now as there are no chapter tactics... you can still user flamers... its not like GW said oh no... salamanders cant use flamers anymore

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

Spot on. They're completely omitted. And it's worrying because - if it's a stop gap list - why remove them? Why tactically cripple us for 1-2 weeks or so if not longer? It's worrying because what if we get shafted.

Oh, GW released new Death Guard Terminators. They can only be armed with X and Y. Everyone with existing Terminators from the past 4 editions gets shown the door if they're armed differently.

And new Havocs! Oh yeah! Only armed with X and Y. Armed differently? Too bad!

I don't like the thought of being pigeonholed into being forced to buy a new kit for an army I've played for YEARS virtually unchanged. Like the example I gave - imagine Blood Angels suddenly losing Assault Squads. Or more extreme, Ultramarines can no longer take Tactical Squads. You instead get GUILITACS armed with X and Y. All your Tactical Marines are now invalid! HaHAA!

See how concerning that is?

Not that concerning when you can still legally play them in your army, they just don't have the deathguard keyword, so won't benefit from any deathguard buffs.

As for your examples they don't really fit it would be more akin to Blood angels losing, terminators, bikes and devestators. These are not the iconic units of said army, but have always been around as generic units in the army.

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

Except you can because they are there as generic Chaos which are the same army

Jesus Christ. That. Is. Not. My. Problem. Are they TECHNICALLY as generic as everyone else now? Yes. However can you not even admit it is slightly strange that such a wide range of units are out of the blue omitted from death guard's use altogether, while the other legions (outside of thousands sons) can use them fine? My fear is that this will not change when the new codex comes out, leaving me with half my army being practically unusable. What do you suppose I do then?

Yeah, they're totally going to make Death guard generic and unusable, when they're releasing new models, a primarch, and using them as a figurehead. Definitely no support for those guys. Won't happen.

/s

 Latro_ wrote:

dude are you even reading replies to your posts you can take them they are just not marked
what you are saying is, i can't have havocs with T5 and fnp so therefore i can't have havocs... Not the same

Wrong.

Read the Death Guard rules - realise that several of the characters apply buffs to Legion key word 'Death Guard'. Same with some of the powers. It's concerning that for a stopgap measure these units disappear completely - rarely does that indicate they are coming back in with a faction book. Quite the opposite. I don't give a hoot about T5 and FNP in that respect. I instead have greater concern for things like Terminators disappearing and the very real concern we might get Scarab Occult'd - oh, not got Armament X? Too bad. Which as others have mentioned is a bit of a dick move.

But then, you opened up with 'dude' so...don't know what I expected.

str00dles1 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

It stops xenos combos, but imperial and chaos?
fF they really wanted to limit combos, they should limit to having the same faction keywords. So no SM and IG playing together in matched play

You mean like how Guard characters can basically only affect Guard characters or how Marine characters affect Marine characters?

Man, if only they had thought of that...

Oh wait!

This here is the crux of it - having different factions play together wasn't in and of itself the problem, it was that combinations of those units from different armies created effects that were greater than the sum of their parts.

So the change is that, while you can still field armies with mixed Imperial allies, you won't be seeing things like Azrael buffing a huge unit of conscripts anymore.

BUT...

In a 2000 point limit game, you can effectively play a solid 1000 point Space Marines army standing next to a solid 1000 point Guard army. With Xenos, you don't have that option. I can't field 1000 points of Necrons next to 1000 points of Tau. It's all or nothing. 2000 Necrons or 2000 Tau.

Feels very much like a slap in the face after pushing cross faction armies so hard.

I guess if your whole point in playing was to cheese it out? Or have stupid formations? (same thing really...) It was a vector for them to sell more. "Take whatever and play!" Seems great, but makes the game broken and terrible.

Again, that is why there is Open play, and Narrative play. Take what you want still. Anyone complaining that they cant take their OP combo of races for matched play clearly doesn't care about balance or the future of the game.

your 700 points of necrons need 300 points more and there, you can play a 1k game.

Don't assume you know where I'm coming from. I'm a casual gamer who prefers competitive games to narrative games. I play 40k and not DnD for a reason. I like for there to be a winner, but I don't necessarily enjoy cutthroat, win at all costs play.

I had no cheese ...no formations ...no OP combos. Think more along the lines of a Combined Arms Detachment of Space Marines composed mainly of Scouts with small Allied Detachments of Necrons and Tau with an Inquisitorial Detachment thrown in for good measure. Was it fluffy? Yes, if you consider the Scouts to be Gue'vesa, the Necrons to be controlled by the Tau (they had some good conversions) and the Inquisitor being an undercover Ordo Xenos guy trying to learn how the Tau are controlling the 'Crons. Was it OP? Oh, feth no. It was terrible. It's also now illegal for matched play using a similar army size.

We both know that 1k won't be the standard. It'll be closer to 2k. While I might be wrong, I just don't seem the community at large halving the size of a 'standard army'. So, my Necrons, practically speaking, need 1300 more points of models before I can use them in a 'standard game'. My Tau need about 1000. My Space Marines need about 1000. My Inquisitor can hang out with the Space Marines, I guess.

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

Except you can because they are there as generic Chaos which are the same army

Jesus Christ. That. Is. Not. My. Problem. Are they TECHNICALLY as generic as everyone else now? Yes. However can you not even admit it is slightly strange that such a wide range of units are out of the blue omitted from death guard's use altogether, while the other legions (outside of thousands sons) can use them fine? My fear is that this will not change when the new codex comes out, leaving me with half my army being practically unusable. What do you suppose I do then?

Have I missed a death guard havoc squad, terminator squad, raptor squad, bike squad etc existing all this time??

Or were they just using genetic stuff?

 frozenwastes wrote:

frankr wrote:
8th edition rule book pg 175:
"A codex is the ultimate resource for your chosen army (or armies!), containing datasheets for the miniautres that are part of a particular Faction. But that's not all - in codexes you'll also find army-specific specail rules that reflect the character of the army and exciting Warlord Traits, Stratagems, wargear, and even unique relics"

Sounds like a lot more than flavor text.

Sounds exactly like the last three battle tomes for Age of Sigmar. Which is a very good thing.

It's a very good thing for the factions that actually get one. For the factions that don't? It's cripplingly terrible. How long do you think it's going to take GW to put out a codex for every army? Years? Realistically speaking, will every faction get an 8th edition codex before 9th edition comes out? I'm not sure they will.

I'm holding off on buying ANYTHING related to 8th edition until I see what kind of power divide the new codexes create. With Age of Sigmar, there are a ton of sub-factions. Generally speaking, the ones that have new style Battletomes are much stronger than the ones that don't.

 Latro_ wrote:


its like salamanders players not having epic flamers now as there are no chapter tactics... you can still user flamers... its not like GW said oh no... salamanders cant use flamers anymore

Hahahaha.

No. Losing Terminators, Havocs and Chosen as actual choices in a specific Legion does not equate to losing buffed flamers.

Imagine your Salamanders instead lost Terminators, Devastators and Veterans. And all you were being told is 'It's still fine, you can use them, they're just not Salamanders.'

Meaning that, gods forbid, for whatever perk taking an All Legion X army has you have to lose it to take those. You can take them, but they won't benefit from the buffs of other characters around them or some of the psychic powers. You can take them, but they're now essentially a tax on force org slots that don't benefit you.

Losing improved flamers does not equate to losing units that have been part of your army for close to 2 decades.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:


its like salamanders players not having epic flamers now as there are no chapter tactics... you can still user flamers... its not like GW said oh no... salamanders cant use flamers anymore

Hahahaha.

No. Losing Terminators, Havocs and Chosen as actual choices in a specific Legion does not equate to losing buffed flamers.

Imagine your Salamanders instead lost Terminators, Devastators and Veterans. And all you were being told is 'It's still fine, you can use them, they're just not Salamanders.'

Meaning that, gods forbid, for whatever perk taking an All Legion X army has you have to lose it to take those. You can take them, but they won't benefit from the buffs of other characters around them or some of the psychic powers. You can take them, but they're now essentially a tax on force org slots that don't benefit you.

Losing improved flamers does not equate to losing units that have been part of your army for close to 2 decades.

Except you haven't lost any of those things - they are all there with the <LEGION> keyword

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?

But it's not messed up at all. You're trying to make a big deal about nothing.

As has been said, run them as generic and then your full codex will be a... full codex.

What I ,and I assume Darkstarsabre (sorry if I'm assuming your problems incorrectly), are worried about, is the bizzare omission of a number of units on the death guard page of the index. If it was just that I had to bide my time to wait for rules, than I'd be happy. However havocs, chosen, terminators, raptors and a number of other units are straight up unusable for Death Guard, for seemingly no reason.

Except you can because they are there as generic Chaos which are the same army

Jesus Christ. That. Is. Not. My. Problem. Are they TECHNICALLY as generic as everyone else now? Yes. However can you not even admit it is slightly strange that such a wide range of units are out of the blue omitted from death guard's use altogether, while the other legions (outside of thousands sons) can use them fine? My fear is that this will not change when the new codex comes out, leaving me with half my army being practically unusable. What do you suppose I do then?

Have I missed a death guard havoc squad, terminator squad, raptor squad, bike squad etc existing all this time??

Or were they just using genetic stuff?

Exhibit A - 3rd edition - note Cult Terminators and Death Guard Havocs. Which functioned as 'Plague' units.

Exhibit B - 3.5 - note that with this book the Mark of Nurgle turned a unit into a Plague unit. Plague Marines were simply CSM with the Mark of Nurgle.

Now ask Chaos players - we hated the 4th ed Codex and 6th ed Codex for the longest times because they turned several very themed armies - particularly the Cult armies - into generic bland crap. A CSM Havoc with the Mark of Nurgle =/= a Plague Havoc. Traitor Legions was a godsend because it brought back the Plague units, the Berserker units, the Rubric units. We got our flavour back and it was good.

This has just taken a huge step backwards and even worse, we've lost unit choices.

They also dont have regular marines either. However you can include them by giving them the nurgle key word. Still make the same army. Its just that the buffs dont stack.

Vorian wrote:

Spoiler:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:


its like salamanders players not having epic flamers now as there are no chapter tactics... you can still user flamers... its not like GW said oh no... salamanders cant use flamers anymore

Hahahaha.

No. Losing Terminators, Havocs and Chosen as actual choices in a specific Legion does not equate to losing buffed flamers.

Imagine your Salamanders instead lost Terminators, Devastators and Veterans. And all you were being told is 'It's still fine, you can use them, they're just not Salamanders.'

Meaning that, gods forbid, for whatever perk taking an All Legion X army has you have to lose it to take those. You can take them, but they won't benefit from the buffs of other characters around them or some of the psychic powers. You can take them, but they're now essentially a tax on force org slots that don't benefit you.

Losing improved flamers does not equate to losing units that have been part of your army for close to 2 decades.

Except you haven't lost any of those things - they are all there with the <LEGION> keyword

Actually, if you look at the Death Guard Army page, it forbids most of those units from selecting Death Guard. He has a valid complaint.

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:


its like salamanders players not having epic flamers now as there are no chapter tactics... you can still user flamers... its not like GW said oh no... salamanders cant use flamers anymore

Hahahaha.

No. Losing Terminators, Havocs and Chosen as actual choices in a specific Legion does not equate to losing buffed flamers.

Imagine your Salamanders instead lost Terminators, Devastators and Veterans. And all you were being told is 'It's still fine, you can use them, they're just not Salamanders.'

Meaning that, gods forbid, for whatever perk taking an All Legion X army has you have to lose it to take those. You can take them, but they won't benefit from the buffs of other characters around them or some of the psychic powers. You can take them, but they're now essentially a tax on force org slots that don't benefit you.

Losing improved flamers does not equate to losing units that have been part of your army for close to 2 decades.

Except you haven't lost any of those things - they are all there with the <LEGION> keyword

You might want to look at this picture.

It lists what units can have Death Guard as their Legion key word. Notice that Chosen, Chaos Terminators and Havocs are not there. Nor are Warpsmiths, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Raptors, Bikes, Heldrakes.....

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:


its like salamanders players not having epic flamers now as there are no chapter tactics... you can still user flamers... its not like GW said oh no... salamanders cant use flamers anymore

Hahahaha.

No. Losing Terminators, Havocs and Chosen as actual choices in a specific Legion does not equate to losing buffed flamers.

Imagine your Salamanders instead lost Terminators, Devastators and Veterans. And all you were being told is 'It's still fine, you can use them, they're just not Salamanders.'

Meaning that, gods forbid, for whatever perk taking an All Legion X army has you have to lose it to take those. You can take them, but they won't benefit from the buffs of other characters around them or some of the psychic powers. You can take them, but they're now essentially a tax on force org slots that don't benefit you.

Losing improved flamers does not equate to losing units that have been part of your army for close to 2 decades.

Except you haven't lost any of those things - they are all there with the <LEGION> keyword

You might want to look at this picture.

It lists what units can have Death Guard as their Legion key word. Notice that Chosen, Chaos Terminators and Havocs are not there. Nor are Warpsmiths, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Raptors, Bikes, Heldrakes.....

I'm a massive DG player... you are seeing this as a sign of oh in the new codex they will be gone.

I can just as easily say the units they picked in the index are units that can be represented with the boxed set or are not going to change in the new dex and everything else e.g. termintors and havocs are getting a new unit title with new options etc etc etc and they don't want to confuse people.

by your locig when they release a DG faction book it will have what nothing new in it? it'll just be those index units? whats the point of ever releasing one if that is the case

its a case of wait and see.

 lolman1c wrote:
Guys, look at the Big Mek for orks... looks like the unit has to be entirely within the 9" bubble for the effects, which is kinda annoying but at least it went up. BTW, anyone got the data sheet for the Blitza-Bommer as it seems to be missing.

Here you go: http://i.imgur.com/IKQm9nt.jpg

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it. The Plasma Pistol (and Combi-Plasma) might be the two most efficient character killers in the game, capable of annihilating an unwounded character with a single roll of a 1.

That would be valid arqument IF imperial plasma needed to overcharge to be better...It doesn't. Imperial plasma overcharges only when it's good for them. What does that say for opponent? Yes it's bad for them then when they get overcharged weapon pointed. Regardless of did plasma blow or not it's bad for opponent as odds were in imperials favour.

Because as every Dragonball Z fan knows: Power levels are bull gak!

Fine. Why are matched points then bad?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

dude are you even reading replies to your posts you can take them they are just not marked
what you are saying is, i can't have havocs with T5 and fnp so therefore i can't have havocs... Not the same

Wrong.

Read the Death Guard rules - realise that several of the characters apply buffs to Legion key word 'Death Guard'. Same with some of the powers. It's concerning that for a stopgap measure these units disappear completely - rarely does that indicate they are coming back in with a faction book. Quite the opposite. I don't give a hoot about T5 and FNP in that respect. I instead have greater concern for things like Terminators disappearing and the very real concern we might get Scarab Occult'd - oh, not got Armament X? Too bad. Which as others have mentioned is a bit of a dick move.

But then, you opened up with 'dude' so...don't know what I expected.

So are you saying that as a Death Guard Player you want to be basically Chaos Space Marines+++, no? You gain some buffs and you lose flexibility. If you want all the flexibility of mixing Deathguard with CSM, you army has worse sinergyes.

Wheres the problem here?

My Dark Angels can't have everything Normal Space Marines have. They gain other units, other sinergies, and other rules... thats how you make Subfactions different.

 buddha wrote:
Anyone have the one drive link? I can't find it all those pages back. Thanks!

The OP is meticulously updated by Rippy...