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2017/05/31 19:22:36
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
2017/05/31 19:23:18
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
RP looks beastly, Monolith looks like it will be epic, Illuminator Szeras is about the same (but harder to kill) Destroyers ignoring the -1 hit modifier for moving.
Looks pretty good!
Couldn't agree more! It seems we sacrificed a bit of our hitting power (Gauss change), but are probably the most durable faction now, as we should be
<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator
2017/05/31 19:29:14
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
RP looks beastly, Monolith looks like it will be epic, Illuminator Szeras is about the same (but harder to kill) Destroyers ignoring the -1 hit modifier for moving.
Looks pretty good!
Couldn't agree more! It seems we sacrificed a bit of our hitting power (Gauss change), but are probably the most durable faction now, as we should be
I am a little concerned about the cron ability to damage "big things". Mostly lords of war - our lords of war, while....very durable - dont have a lot of range, or to be honest firepower against high toughness models (yes, we can shoot a lot of shots from a obelisk - but we are wounding knights on a 5 - and if we are that close, we are about to get a big sword to the face).
I suspect I will be using absolute hordes of warriors (fun, if that is exactly what you want to play) or spamming a lot of doom scythes?
(well I know it won't be war scythes - what happened to them being a good anti-big-thing weapon?).
Thoughts from anyone else ?
DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
2017/05/31 19:29:40
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
No you really aren't, you just take a second CSM detachment with nurgle marked units that won't benefit from your deathguard rules, they will still function as units and be nurgle marked. The only issue is the desire for more powerful synergy there is no fluff argument to be made, nor one about not being able to use your models. You just won't have the best synergy possible.
So at 2k points you take a main battalion detachment of deathguard and then say a Spearhead detachment with your havocs, termies and bikes all nurgle marked. With an HQ who is nurgle marked. Your bikes, havocs etc, just won't get buffed by deathguard specific buffs, but they will still be usable on the table in a completely legal army.
2017/05/31 19:29:48
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
Kriswall wrote: So, how many non-mixed, non-new battletome armies are winning tournaments? Because "mixed" is only a thing for Imperium, and to a lesser extent, Chaos and Eldar. Xenos armies generally don't have the option. So... no codex options and no option to mix in other faction units to shore up weak points. Doesn't sound promising. I'd be surprised to see mono-faction Necrons, Tau or Orks placing at the same level as a mixed Chaos or mixed Imperium list. This is BEFORE you buff certain factions with fancy new codex benefits.
In the most recent SCGT tourny with 180 attendees, Seraphon placed 4th and Destruction Alliance armies (with few sub-factions) placed 3rd and 7th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 19:30:52
2017/05/31 19:33:35
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
No you really aren't, you just take a second CSM detachment with nurgle marked units that won't benefit from your deathguard rules, they will still function as units and be nurgle marked. The only issue is the desire for more powerful synergy there is no fluff argument to be made, nor one about not being able to use your models. You just won't have the best synergy possible.
So at 2k points you take a main battalion detachment of deathguard and then say a Spearhead detachment with your havocs, termies and bikes all nurgle marked. With an HQ who is nurgle marked. Your bikes, havocs etc, just won't get buffed by deathguard specific buffs, but they will still be usable on the table in a completely legal army.
But that's not exceptable, would you like to have to run your termies every game as Ultramarines? And all tactics as salamanders?
If you want a army wide synergy and lore you want to run mono faction death guard not duo.
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
2017/05/31 19:35:03
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
RP looks beastly, Monolith looks like it will be epic, Illuminator Szeras is about the same (but harder to kill) Destroyers ignoring the -1 hit modifier for moving.
Looks pretty good!
Couldn't agree more! It seems we sacrificed a bit of our hitting power (Gauss change), but are probably the most durable faction now, as we should be
I am a little concerned about the cron ability to damage "big things". Mostly lords of war - our lords of war, while....very durable - dont have a lot of range, or to be honest firepower against high toughness models (yes, we can shoot a lot of shots from a obelisk - but we are wounding knights on a 5 - and if we are that close, we are about to get a big sword to the face).
I suspect I will be using absolute hordes of warriors (fun, if that is exactly what you want to play) or spamming a lot of doom scythes? (well I know it won't be war scythes - what happened to them being a good anti-big-thing weapon?).
Thoughts from anyone else ?
Well, for taking down things like Imperial Knights, I actually think that Doom Scythes, Monoliths and Doomsday Arks will be wonderful. Barges to, but I'll be using them more towards infantry
Warscythes are still amazing, S7 carving through 3+ saves and doing 2dmg, that'll be a bane of a lot of things, especially if you get them into combat first
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 19:36:21
<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator
2017/05/31 19:37:55
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
RP looks beastly, Monolith looks like it will be epic, Illuminator Szeras is about the same (but harder to kill) Destroyers ignoring the -1 hit modifier for moving.
Looks pretty good!
Couldn't agree more! It seems we sacrificed a bit of our hitting power (Gauss change), but are probably the most durable faction now, as we should be
I am a little concerned about the cron ability to damage "big things". Mostly lords of war - our lords of war, while....very durable - dont have a lot of range, or to be honest firepower against high toughness models (yes, we can shoot a lot of shots from a obelisk - but we are wounding knights on a 5 - and if we are that close, we are about to get a big sword to the face).
I suspect I will be using absolute hordes of warriors (fun, if that is exactly what you want to play) or spamming a lot of doom scythes?
(well I know it won't be war scythes - what happened to them being a good anti-big-thing weapon?).
Thoughts from anyone else ?
I don't think it will be that difficult.
Necrons historically has struggled against hard targets due to their lack of specialized weapons, and this will be no different, really, and they do have options.
Gauss cannons deal D3 wounds, Doomsday cannon and Heavy Gauss deals D6 wounds, etc etc
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/05/31 19:40:48
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
No you really aren't, you just take a second CSM detachment with nurgle marked units that won't benefit from your deathguard rules, they will still function as units and be nurgle marked. The only issue is the desire for more powerful synergy there is no fluff argument to be made, nor one about not being able to use your models. You just won't have the best synergy possible.
So at 2k points you take a main battalion detachment of deathguard and then say a Spearhead detachment with your havocs, termies and bikes all nurgle marked. With an HQ who is nurgle marked. Your bikes, havocs etc, just won't get buffed by deathguard specific buffs, but they will still be usable on the table in a completely legal army.
Hell you do not even have to do this. You do not need two different detachments for your two different legions. Death Guard and "Not Death Guard" can be in the same detachment, just pay for a "Not Death Guard" lord so your "Not Death Guard" units benefit from his aura. This is honestly not as huge an issue as people are making it, take a step back and realize you can use all your models they just don't get super special death guard stuff YET
2017/05/31 19:43:37
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
kestral wrote: You definitely pay for spiffy new deployment options. Maybe cult ambush really is that good. 100 points for a drop pod? Errr, OK, maybe it is worth that much to drop a unit where ever and whenever you want, but it is still the end of the drop pod army.
8th in general is the end of the vehicle spam army
bad days for all those who bought models for all the free transport options, we are back in 3rd/4th now regarding vehicle pricing
So not every unit will take a transport just because it can and not every unit will need to have one
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2017/05/31 19:47:24
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
It lists what units can have Death Guard as their Legion key word. Notice that Chosen, Chaos Terminators and Havocs are not there. Nor are Warpsmiths, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Raptors, Bikes, Heldrakes.....
Yep. They listed the currently available models that fit the Death Guard army. Terminators are already known to be coming. Why would they give you old termies and then take them away to add new ones?
Sorry to say that if you want bikes and other crap - you're not playing Death Guard. That's not what Death Guard is. Look at Thousand Sons. I don't get everything either.
2017/05/31 19:47:35
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
I have to say I really like the new cover and terrain rules. Some of the things I hated most about 7th edition were model's eye view dictating cover saves, having multiple save rolls, and rolling for difficult terrain tests.
Are you on the base of a forest, ruin or crater? Bam, +1 to your save. Charging through one of those? Bam, subtract two inches.
Stuff like that really speeds up play and takes out the kind of subjectivity that can start arguments over whether this model can realistically see 49% or 50% of that one. I mean they still have that for models on opposite sides of terrain features, but it was moving through terrain that was really kind of painful anyway.
2017/05/31 19:48:58
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
No you really aren't, you just take a second CSM detachment with nurgle marked units that won't benefit from your deathguard rules, they will still function as units and be nurgle marked. The only issue is the desire for more powerful synergy there is no fluff argument to be made, nor one about not being able to use your models. You just won't have the best synergy possible.
So at 2k points you take a main battalion detachment of deathguard and then say a Spearhead detachment with your havocs, termies and bikes all nurgle marked. With an HQ who is nurgle marked. Your bikes, havocs etc, just won't get buffed by deathguard specific buffs, but they will still be usable on the table in a completely legal army.
Hell you do not even have to do this. You do not need two different detachments for your two different legions. Death Guard and "Not Death Guard" can be in the same detachment, just pay for a "Not Death Guard" lord so your "Not Death Guard" units benefit from his aura. This is honestly not as huge an issue as people are making it, take a step back and realize you can use all your models they just don't get super special death guard stuff YET
What would be the purpose of them omitting all those units right now, not allowing them to use the "super special death guard stuff", if they just plan on letting them later on??
It lists what units can have Death Guard as their Legion key word. Notice that Chosen, Chaos Terminators and Havocs are not there. Nor are Warpsmiths, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Raptors, Bikes, Heldrakes.....
Yep. They listed the currently available models that fit the Death Guard army. Terminators are already known to be coming. Why would they give you old termies and then take them away to add new ones?
Sorry to say that if you want bikes and other crap - you're not playing Death Guard. That's not what Death Guard is. Look at Thousand Sons. I don't get everything either.
So havocs don't suit death guard then?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 19:49:44
2017/05/31 19:51:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
They do (to an extent), but if they don't get "Havocs" they'll get something else. It doesn't take much to look at how the initial AoS factions got improved.
If this stresses people then just play CSM until they have everything you want out of DG. Everyone is in a similar boat, but crying about it when you're second on deck...jesus...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I don't think so. In the 3.5 ed codex I think Havocs were one of the unit types forbidden to the Death Guard, along with Raptors and bikes.
They were allowed. Death Guard = Infantry.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 19:57:16
2017/05/31 19:57:13
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
They do (to an extent), but if they don't get "Havocs" they'll get something else. It doesn't take much to look at how the initial AoS factions got improved.
If this stresses people then just play CSM until they have everything you want out of DG. Everyone is in a similar boat, but crying about it when you're second on deck...jesus...
How did they improve the AoS factions? How did they add new units and stuff? Free downloads, or did you have to buy supplements?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I don't think so. In the 3.5 ed codex I think Havocs were one of the unit types forbidden to the Death Guard, along with Raptors and bikes.
They were allowed. Death Guard = Infantry.
I guess that makes sense. Its been like 13 years, so I can't remember anything clearly.
Unless its about necrons. I remember a lot about them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 19:59:38
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/05/31 19:58:07
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I don't think so. In the 3.5 ed codex I think Havocs were one of the unit types forbidden to the Death Guard, along with Raptors and bikes.
Look at the heresy. We can legally have armies with 40 dudes armed with missile launchers/autocannons/las cannons and other fun stuff.
2017/05/31 19:58:51
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
CthuluIsSpy wrote: How did they improve the AoS factions? How did they add new units and stuff? Free downloads, or did you have to buy supplements?
AoS was still finding it's feet so the initial books were sorta meh. The newer books have expanded spells, artefacts, and traits. Stormcast got a book early on and recently got a new book with new units.
2017/05/31 20:02:09
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
Kornath wrote: Sort of hoped that Necron Crypteks could buy some nice new gear, but that turned out to be a futile hope ;_;
Yeah, I was hoping for options like in 6th Codex
Yeah, we sort of feel a bit bland.. we even lost 3 C'tan powers
We can still hold out for our Necron Codex.
I too was disappointed by our crypteks no longer being able to take eldritch lances. Because that would be hilarious.
I don't mind the loss of the C'tan powers; the c'tan already have some nasty abilities. That Nightbringer is going to just melt infantry and deal some nasty damage to vehicles, and the Deceiver is all about deployment shenanigans.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2017/05/31 20:03:14
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
They do (to an extent), but if they don't get "Havocs" they'll get something else. It doesn't take much to look at how the initial AoS factions got improved.
If this stresses people then just play CSM until they have everything you want out of DG. Everyone is in a similar boat, but crying about it when you're second on deck...jesus...
Everyone does not have the problem that death guard have, they are not in a similar boat to us. Again, if it was just that we didn't have legion rules and we had to wait a few months for them, I would have no problem. Death guard and thousand sons are the only two armies to have units directly omitted. Units that we previously, could take.
2017/05/31 20:03:19
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
Cant wait to see the FW releases and how their keywords work out. Hope they managed to keep it consistent with things like aeronautica imperialis and the like.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
No you really aren't, you just take a second CSM detachment with nurgle marked units that won't benefit from your deathguard rules, they will still function as units and be nurgle marked. The only issue is the desire for more powerful synergy there is no fluff argument to be made, nor one about not being able to use your models. You just won't have the best synergy possible.
So at 2k points you take a main battalion detachment of deathguard and then say a Spearhead detachment with your havocs, termies and bikes all nurgle marked. With an HQ who is nurgle marked. Your bikes, havocs etc, just won't get buffed by deathguard specific buffs, but they will still be usable on the table in a completely legal army.
Hell you do not even have to do this. You do not need two different detachments for your two different legions. Death Guard and "Not Death Guard" can be in the same detachment, just pay for a "Not Death Guard" lord so your "Not Death Guard" units benefit from his aura. This is honestly not as huge an issue as people are making it, take a step back and realize you can use all your models they just don't get super special death guard stuff YET
It'll be a huge issue for a lot of players when Codex Death Guard comes out and requires that your entire army have the Death Guard keyword to unlock all the goodies. That's how it works in Age of Sigmar. Battletome Sylvaneth only grants benefits if EVERY unit/Battalion in the army has the Sylvaneth keyword. Include one Elf and your Sylvaneth army defaults to Order and loses all benefits.
So yes, you can put Havocs/Terminators/etc into a "Death Guard" army, but it won't really be a Death Guard faction army and very likely won't be eligible for any of the inevitable Death Guard bonus rules from the inevitable Codex Death Guard.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
It'll be a huge issue for a lot of players when Codex Death Guard comes out and requires that your entire army have the Death Guard keyword to unlock all the goodies. That's how it works in Age of Sigmar. Battletome Sylvaneth only grants benefits if EVERY unit/Battalion in the army has the Sylvaneth keyword. Include one Elf and your Sylvaneth army defaults to Order and loses all benefits.
So yes, you can put Havocs/Terminators/etc into a "Death Guard" army, but it won't really be a Death Guard faction army and very likely won't be eligible for any of the inevitable Death Guard bonus rules from the inevitable Codex Death Guard.
Yes and no.
Disciples of Tzeentch lets me take a "Tzeentch" army and have the destiny dice trait. There are variable spells and artefacts I can pick depending on the keywords I have in my army. Having not all Death Guard does not preclude all benefits.
2017/05/31 20:13:10
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2017/05/31 20:14:48
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Full Index Leaks/Ultramar WZ/Necron focus in OP
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/31 20:15:00
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
andysonic1 wrote: ITT: people not understanding you can have your Havocs in your army, they just can't be Death Guard units and so do not benefit from anything related to the Keyword Death Guard. Makeup a new legion called Guard Death, pay for a Lord of Guard Death legion and look now your Havocs can reroll 1's. Wow that sure was complicated to figure out how to have my cake and eat it too.
I think you are missing the point here.....
A unit of havoc a cant be death guard.
A sergant / chosen / warlord gives rerolls of 1 to all units with the death giard key word. ( not fact just example)
So adding 20 havoc so to your list will cancel out the chosen completely and a percentage of his points. He is say 100 points due to the buffs he gives. No buffs tax for nothing.
So that would be the same as you taking say gillyman who benifits ultrasmurfs and buying 50 prisim marines. But prisim marines don't get a buff from gillyman so x ammount of his points are a unwarranted tax..
Also for those saying just take them, you can get them latter.
You build 20 termies with auto cannons, new book comes out termies are gone now buy deaths termies yours are not allowed. Or cut off their arms auto cannons not allowed.
It would be like take your army and now cut off the arms of every troop and replace it with another piece on the spru ..... Because.
Except that death guard models still benefit from the buffs so unless you are taking deathguard characters in an army with no deathguard models the buffs still work. Your argument is akin to taking a character that buffs tanks, in an army that includes both tanks and infantry, he still buff the tanks. As for options on units being negated, they might be, and that would suck, but it would not be a first.
Except we are talking about bikers havoc a and termies, who can never be death guard. So if you want them like in the last 7 editions your SOL
No you really aren't, you just take a second CSM detachment with nurgle marked units that won't benefit from your deathguard rules, they will still function as units and be nurgle marked. The only issue is the desire for more powerful synergy there is no fluff argument to be made, nor one about not being able to use your models. You just won't have the best synergy possible.
So at 2k points you take a main battalion detachment of deathguard and then say a Spearhead detachment with your havocs, termies and bikes all nurgle marked. With an HQ who is nurgle marked. Your bikes, havocs etc, just won't get buffed by deathguard specific buffs, but they will still be usable on the table in a completely legal army.
Hell you do not even have to do this. You do not need two different detachments for your two different legions. Death Guard and "Not Death Guard" can be in the same detachment, just pay for a "Not Death Guard" lord so your "Not Death Guard" units benefit from his aura. This is honestly not as huge an issue as people are making it, take a step back and realize you can use all your models they just don't get super special death guard stuff YET
It'll be a huge issue for a lot of players when Codex Death Guard comes out and requires that your entire army have the Death Guard keyword to unlock all the goodies. That's how it works in Age of Sigmar. Battletome Sylvaneth only grants benefits if EVERY unit/Battalion in the army has the Sylvaneth keyword. Include one Elf and your Sylvaneth army defaults to Order and loses all benefits.
So yes, you can put Havocs/Terminators/etc into a "Death Guard" army, but it won't really be a Death Guard faction army and very likely won't be eligible for any of the inevitable Death Guard bonus rules from the inevitable Codex Death Guard.
...a codex that will likely include the option of Putrifiers with Entropy Cannons (or something similar) that fulfill the role of infantry based heavy weapons for DG. Or maybe they'll just be removed and the fluff will be updated that pure DG have accepted Nurgle's gift such that they no longer rely on those legion elements, leaving that job to less devoted Nurgle-marked CSM.
Change happens, and expecting an army to remain in exactly your preferred vision forever is just a setup for disappointment.
2017/05/31 20:17:20
Subject: Warhammer 40k 8th Edition Summary - 31 May 2017: Admech + Ork leaks + much more(all info in OP)
<Dynasty> 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
~3250pts
Admech (TBN) 
~1660
