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Quick question: do you guys think we can use the re-roll command stratagem for the initiative roll?

 rippounet wrote:

Quick question: do you guys think we can use the re-roll command stratagem for the initiative roll?

Don't see why not. Says they can be used before the battle.

One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.

 Latro_ wrote:
One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.

Yeah I was searching for that. I didn't see anything about getting in or getting out of transports.

 Latro_ wrote:
One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.

You have to be "within 3" of the transport and "not within 1" of the enemy, so since we understand that to mean that no part of your base is within 1 of the enemy, then it should be that some part of your base must be within 3 of the transport.

 insaniak wrote:
Not a fan of the tank. It's a flying land raider with missiles jammed on anywhere there's a flat space. Lazy design and ugly end result.

Agreed. It reminds me of those awful FASA Star Trek kitbashes where they just took elements from existing Starfleet ships and mashed them together in different configurations, then occasionally did some crude lineart over the top.

Also, what happened to the whole "the Imperium's knowledge of military grav-tech is almost gone, hence why only Marines get Land Speeders, and even they get nothing more than those" thing? Bellisarius "massive bloody Heretek" Cawl to the rescue again I assume. You know it's actually impressive: I never thought GW would manage to make me look back fondly at the Centurion or Chibihawk releases, but at least with those they tried to work them in to the existing setting - it wasn't ideal by any means, but "nah nah nah, they've always been there, just off the screen to the left there, honest" was at least better than "Technological regression and ritualised ignorance? Never heard of it chief, we're makin' flyin' Land Raiders over here.".

By contrast the idea that the 40K version of the General's Handbook concept might also have content in the same vein as the old Chapter Approved annuals is a fantastic idea that really makes the idea of buying a rules update every bloody year somewhat more tolerable.

 Polonius wrote:
I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.

For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.

And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!

I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

 MLaw wrote:
I'm just waiting for Imperial Jetbikes to come back and someone flip out about how there's no precedence for such a thing and how absurd it is.. lulz
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Jetbike

I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples

Like this one... I have a squad of five...

skarsol wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.

You have to be "within 3" of the transport and "not within 1" of the enemy, so since we understand that to mean that no part of your base is within 1 of the enemy, then it should be that some part of your base must be within 3 of the transport.

Can you tell me where in the rules it says that so I can point to it when I exit rhinos from the front?

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Think I prefer the tank with solid colour grav plates.



Some wear and tear here and there, leave off a rocked pod or two and it will look great.

Could we see it in Scythes of the Emperor Livery?

Scythes I think would look fantastic, and fluff wise I can see papa smurf reinforcing them after the 'little bug problem' they had That would take away from the character of the chapter but well GW gotta make a buck right and it's never stopped them before.

I LOVE this tank, I was wondering why the AC's didn't get grav rhinos as that's the one thing that really put me off of them. Now we know why.

Your post slipped by me, but yeah I think it would look great in the Black and Yellow. And that's pretty much my thought about starting the Scythes is they'd be prefect to be reinforced, and I think they could work some of their new eccentricities in, teaching the new guys their ways of dealing with bugs.

 andysonic1 wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.

You have to be "within 3" of the transport and "not within 1" of the enemy, so since we understand that to mean that no part of your base is within 1 of the enemy, then it should be that some part of your base must be within 3 of the transport.

Can you tell me where in the rules it says that so I can point to it when I exit rhinos from the front?

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.

For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.

And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!

I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.

The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.

 Polonius wrote:
I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.

I want both new Marines and new Xenos stuff.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
I'm just waiting for Imperial Jetbikes to come back and someone flip out about how there's no precedence for such a thing and how absurd it is.. lulz
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Jetbike

I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples

You just know jetbikes will come back one day... GW needs a constant stream of Space Marine releases so it has to take the distinguishing concepts of every other army and create a Space Marine translation.

Yes, because bringing back Crusade era tech is stealing new ideas from other armies.

That isn't what I said. Lets not act like the history of the games development never happened. In Rogue Trader, every army and race had everything... eldar could have bolters and lasguns and space marines could use a shuriken catapult... and yes they had jetbikes. GW can use whatever rationale they want, but since 2nd edition games workshop has put a lot of energy into making the different armies and races have a distinctive character. A strong part of that distinctive character came from what combination of these different concepts each race could and couldn't have access to. For Space Marines more than any other faction, GW has greatly expanded the preexisting concepts distinctive of other armies and incorporated them into Space Marines. That dilutes the uniqueness of what other factions have and diminishes an aspect of 40k that separates it from other games. There is an aspect of asymmetric balance to the game that is also eroded.

So yes while its an intentionally convenient element of the background that they can pull lost technology back out of the anals-of-history... lets not pretend it isn't anything other than it is, product development. In a number of instances I think its been lazy when they do make units that directly compare to the concepts of other armies, they can be frustrating, particularly to anyone playing those other factions. That laziness diminishes a component of distinctiveness and the esteem of the other armies and the people who play those armies.

Maybe the redundancy isn't intentional but it is a direct consequence of needing to release a steady stream of space marine products. To carry space marines on indefinitely they will inevitably end up hitting upon jetbikes again.

Something interesting in the matched play game - they said that everything that was deathguard (including a defiler) gets disgustingly resilient - I don't see that in the rules, but they could be talking about the rules in their codex.

 Polonius wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.

For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.

And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!

I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.

The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.

note: read this in Cartman's voice in your head.. the tone of my post will make more sense that way..
This is why I don't understand the angst towards the "new" technology.. Yes, they may have lost the old STCs and it's humorous and cynical to think they're too stupid or rigid to take what exists and modify it.. EXCEPT.. that they keep doing just that anyway. You've got landspeeders, boarding ships for outer space, gunships that can hover in place, jetbikes (at least the one), jump packs, teleportation, plasma energy, chainsaw swords and power swords, genetic manipulation and a sophisticated armor and weapon system for marines, a literal walking/fighting coffin.. cyborgs, titans (they are giant freaking robots.. with.. void shields!).. I mean .. at some point the guys whose sole job is to create gak for the Imperium have got to look at this stuff and the badass tanks Eldar and Tau are using.. or even the Monolith and think.. "man.. that's pretty sick.. we should totally do that".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
I'm just waiting for Imperial Jetbikes to come back and someone flip out about how there's no precedence for such a thing and how absurd it is.. lulz
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Jetbike

I mean other than the FW, 30k, or Sammael examples

You just know jetbikes will come back one day... GW needs a constant stream of Space Marine releases so it has to take the distinguishing concepts of every other army and create a Space Marine translation.

Yes, because bringing back Crusade era tech is stealing new ideas from other armies.

That isn't what I said. Lets not act like the history of the games development never happened. In Rogue Trader, every army and race had everything... eldar could have bolters and lasguns and space marines could use a shuriken catapult... and yes they had jetbikes. GW can use whatever rationale they want, but since 2nd edition games workshop has put a lot of energy into making the different armies and races have a distinctive character. A strong part of that distinctive character came from what combination of these different concepts each race could and couldn't have access to. For Space Marines more than any other faction, GW has greatly expanded the preexisting concepts distinctive of other armies and incorporated them into Space Marines. That dilutes the uniqueness of what other factions have and diminishes an aspect of 40k that separates it from other games. There is an aspect of asymmetric balance to the game that is also eroded.

So yes while its an intentionally convenient element of the background that they can pull lost technology back out of the anals-of-history... lets not pretend it isn't anything other than it is, product development. In a number of instances I think its been lazy when they do make units that directly compare to the concepts of other armies, they can be frustrating, particularly to anyone playing those other factions. That laziness diminishes a component of distinctiveness and the esteem of the other armies and the people who play those armies.

Maybe the redundancy isn't intentional but it is a direct consequence of needing to release a steady stream of space marine products. To carry space marines on indefinitely they will inevitably end up hitting upon jetbikes again.

So lemme get this right.. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Custodes and I think even Orks too tbh can all have hover tanks.. and that's fine but the second Space Marines get them some line has been crossed that completely blurs the distinctions between the armies? I'm struggling with this one..

EDIT: Before anyone asks: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ork_Minelayer there might be others that I can't think of atm

Also EDIT: Jetbikes spans that same list.. exactly.. I think.. actually I am not entirely sure what those things Necrons have are but they hover dammit..

So it is like a hovercraft? The tech to make DA jetbikes is gone but they make hover tanks?

Am I reading this wrong or does the Boss Nob in the Boyz not cost anything except upgrades if you want them?

 Polonius wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
I like that they're finally changing the idea that the Imperium relies entirely on old and dwindling technology. Not only does it strain credibility (pragamatism wins out over dogma over time), it also creates a dead end for new imperium models. there are only so many variants to current kits, and nobody seemed like to shoehorning in brand new units (like Centurions) by pretending they've been used the whole time.

For the first time, really ever, 40k is a more dynamic universe. That's a good thing for us as collectors and hobbyists.

And for those that say that GW should stop making Astartes kits, and make stuff for other factions: I can only assume that GW knows what sells, and caters to that. Like it or not, the collective affection for power army basically makes 40k a viable game. You know GW makes a ton more on every SM frame than anything they make for DE or AM. So, the extent that people buying space marines brings me new toys, I say, huzzah!

I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

that's a fair point, but I think you can decouple technological advances (or lack thereof) from a societies stagnation or terminal decline. The Roman Empire's military evolved even as the society collapsed beneath it. I don't think that having slightly better marines is going to save the imperium, and I don't think it changes the unceasing grim dark of the setting to have Roboute Gulliman actually trying to help. If anything, this could set up even greater, swifter collapse. I think you can like things changing on the margins, and still like the setting.

The cold reality is that GW isn't making money telling a story. It's making money selling models, and making yet another iteration of Tactical Squads is not going to produce sales. Genuinely new power armor will. I wish people were as excited about new Xenos, but GW is giving people what they want.

I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.

 Latro_ wrote:
One thing iv not spotted in the rules is what counts within? E.g. get out of a transport within 3" is that 0.1 inch of your base is within 3 or all of your base.

Given that they specifiy for bubble effects that units need to be 'completely within' for an effect, being partially within is fine. Being partially within 3 inches is still being within 3 inches

OgreChubbs wrote:
So it is like a hovercraft? The tech to make DA jetbikes is gone but they make hover tanks?

Yes.. ?

v0iddrgn wrote:
Am I reading this wrong or does the Boss Nob in the Boyz not cost anything except upgrades if you want them?

Not reading that wrong. Boss Nob are included in Boyz unit for free... you just have to purchase his gears.

It's certainly different from past editions, but I think we'll all like this much better. Opens up more flexibility.

I need that hovertank pronto! After being very disappointed by the new dreadnought I wasn't expecting much but that is just perfect.

I may remove the turret to make it look more streamlined but that would be all as the rest just exudes space marine from every panel. I wish the people that designed this had been around to fix the first marine flyers...

 Yodhrin wrote:
I could not disagree more strongly. Literally the entire point of 40K as a setting is that it's an irredeemable dystopia in unceasing, inevitable decline because of humanity's own hubris and self-regard. If you don't like that, you literally don't like 40K - it would be like professing to be into Star Trek while hating the basic concept of the Federation and its ideals, or Star Wars while thinking The Force and traditional Hero's Journey stories are rubbish. Making 40K "dynamic" completely undermines not just its own internal consistency, but it robs the history of 40K of any real thematic impact as well - the terminal decline of 40K is the consequence of the Heresy and the Apostasy and all the other idiotic, self-defeating conflicts that humanity has inflicted on itself over ten milliennia; if you take away the consequences of those stories, they no longer have any real meaning.

There are plenty of "dynamic", ever-changing sci-fi IPs out there, I don't get why people are so excited by the idea of losing one of the few examples of the opposite.

Y'know, I don't think you get to define how others are supposed to process, enjoy, or find meaning in some given material. You may have your own way that you perceive it and engage with it, but that has ZERO importance to how anyone else does the same. I feel like you struggle MIGHTILY with this basic concept.

Your statement above is full of personal opinion. Other individuals might point to to seeds of hope planted in the 40K background, such as the possible resurrection of the Emperor and/or his Primarchs (themes in the background since RT), or the existence of the Tau. You may choose to dismiss them or fit them into your view of the background in a different way. But others may be attracted to those concepts and find them important in the way they experience the background. And to them, the return of Guilliman, etc. aren't paradigm-shifting events but a gentle breeze being applied to small embers of hope.

I really like the repulser. It looks great. Thow like some said the turret is a little cluttered looking. But it still looks really cool to me..it's a imperium grav tank that still uses a lot of the same design cues as the rest of the imperiuem's tanks. It looks like a scicarian on grav suspension. I love it.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.

It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?

 Polonius wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.

It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?

also, maybe the loss of the STCs was a lie? Maybe the Imperium realized that the resources needed to maintain that level of technology were unsustainable..
..or
Maybe there was fear that such devices would fall into the hands of Chaos or rebellious territories and the tech was hidden out of fear. TBH that makes waaay more sense to me.
..or
Maybe the primarchs disappeared with the STCs to protect them.. really this could be combined with the above theory.

 MLaw wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I think GW's out, in this instances, is that these new technologies are a consequence of Guilliman and Cawl who are both in different ways "men" out of time. Guilliman is practically a time traveler and Cawl has been working for over 10,000 years to develop these technologies. They are thus able to think and act in a way that frees their characters from the cultural decline and orthodoxy that has crippled the Imperium's advances in the setting. The setting is still a dystopia with humanity trapped in orthodoxy and hubris where Guilliman is still seen as a demi-god, and not the genetically engineered abominations the primarchs actually are. The Imperium is still in decline and if anything is worse off. If we think of the setting, the story of the Imperium as this stagnation and decline of humanity, this may well be the "last hooray"... what happens when the best and last hope of humanity fails. What if the narrative is that even demi-gods can't save the Imperium. It serves to punctuate on much this society has failed.

It also preserves the real grimdark of the setting: is the Imperium even worth saving? Or are attempts to preserve it simply delaying humanities renaissance?

also, maybe the loss of the STCs was a lie? Maybe the Imperium realized that the resources needed to maintain that level of technology were unsustainable..
..or
Maybe there was fear that such devices would fall into the hands of Chaos or rebellious territories and the tech was hidden out of fear. TBH that makes waaay more sense to me.
..or
Maybe the primarchs disappeared with the STCs to protect them.. really this could be combined with the above theory.

The two lost legions fled with the SCTs because they contained the plans for female space marines.

You heard it here first.

Like I said, GW seriously needs a guy whose job is to go around the sculptors' offices and tell them to stop adding more guns to whatever they're working on.

 MLaw wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
So it is like a hovercraft? The tech to make DA jetbikes is gone but they make hover tanks?

Yes.. ?

Yeah, see, this monstrosity here? This is when I stopped playing. Not because it was crazy OP or anything but more because it's everything the naysayers have been calling the Repulsor, and then some. And don't get me started on the jet fighter with a stone freakin' shrine built into the hull.

Compared to the gak that's apparently already passed muster, ripping the tracks off a Land Raider and bolting grave plates on instead is positively sensible.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Like I said, GW seriously needs a guy whose job is to go around the sculptors' offices and tell them to stop adding more guns to whatever they're working on.

Or move that guy over to the Ork department.