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 Shandara wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Just don't overcharge them, they will be fine. The Greater Brass Scorpion is beastly! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/05/forge-world-preview-indexes/

I'm surprised the Scorpion has the same wounds as the Spartan Relic Tank, which is far cheaper (power level wise) and has a 2+ save.

You're surprised? One is chaos and the other is loyalist.

 adamsouza wrote:
Why do people think Scions are almost broken good ?

troop choice, cheap, spams plasma or other weapons, includes deepstrike, benefits from orders, and can take one of the best transports in gattling cannon taurox which itself is pretty strong. You can deepstrike them into cover for a 3+ sv and force your opponent to charge into cover making charges harder. They hit on a 3+ and have the ability to reroll 1's. Or double shots in thier base weapon which is rapid fire ap-2. I mean what else do you need?

 Alpharius wrote:
Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?

MOST Vehicle mounted plasma does a mortal wound to the model if you Overcharge and then roll a 1 to hit. bespoke rules determine everything.

Did anyone catch the Jes Goodwin interview and take notes?
Its the one interview I'm interested in seeing / reading.

I got halfway through it, with extreme lag, before my internet shut off. So no.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
Did anyone catch the Jes Goodwin interview and take notes?
Its the one interview I'm interested in seeing / reading.

I listened to it with half an ear. It was mainly "Look how awesome these new models are and here's the awesome things I thought about when trying to make them awesome" while the other guy concurred that everything was awesomely awesome. There was one bit where they asked him about the Repulsor and he responded with "wait, which tank again?" implying there are more tanks maybe, but that's about it for juicy bits.

Another thing people need to let go of is this obsession with a units battle role. Troops do NOTHING for you other than make it easier to get a few extra cmd points. Which while useful is not exactly game breaking.

Also remember that we really need to rethink how deep strike works now. 9 inches from ANY enemy is a huge difference from before. With one line of troops to the front I can create an 27 inch nullzone between your deepstriking units and the meat of my army. Add in 9 inches from the back of the board and suddenly all those points spent on a scion drop will be wasted.


150 points(50 conscripts) and I can basically force your scion deep strike to nearly be back in your deployment zone,

I strongly recommend playing at least 1 game before starting to plan a serious army or strategy. It is such a change that until you do so it will be hard to wrap your head around how different armies will be in 8th and how strategies will work.

 Leth wrote:

Also remember that we really need to rethink how deep strike works now. 9 inches from ANY enemy is a huge difference from before. With one line of troops to the front I can create an 27 inch nullzone between my single file front line and the rest of my army. Add in 9 inches from the back of the board and suddenly all those points spent on a scion drop will be wasted.

Wouldn't it be 18" between lines?

Ah ok, if its just 'everything is awesome' then I'll pass, I was hoping Jes would have something interesting to say.
I'm not fussed about there being more tanks if they are all as bad as the Repulsor.

skarsol wrote:

 Leth wrote:

Also remember that we really need to rethink how deep strike works now. 9 inches from ANY enemy is a huge difference from before. With one line of troops to the front I can create an 27 inch nullzone between my single file front line and the rest of my army. Add in 9 inches from the back of the board and suddenly all those points spent on a scion drop will be wasted.

Wouldn't it be 18" between lines?

Yes, and then 9 inches in front of your front line.

xx9 inch zonexx
frontline
xx9 inch zonexx
xx9 inch zonexx
Units
xx9 inch zonexx

Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table. I can already feel the additional levels of tactical skill required to pull things off.

Positioning, army building, movement. It all works together much more than before and I LOVE IT. For such a simple rule set it interacts with the models in an extremely interesting way. I quite enjoy it.

Right, you just said "between" so was clarifying.

skarsol wrote:
Right, you just said "between" so was clarifying.

You are right, edited for correctness

Asmodai wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?

They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.

The Leman Russ Demolisher's Plasma Cannon sponsons flat out destroy the tank if any of the to hit rolls are ones.

No... The LR Demolisher has a special rule that prevents it from being slain outright when firing the Plasma Cannons. Instead, for each hit roll of 1 the LR Demolisher suffers 6 mortal wounds. So while it's still possible for the LR Demolisher to destroy itself it's not a matter of rolling a single unlucky 1.

 Leth wrote:
Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table.

Not really a massive impediment, it'll only take one turn to blow some large holes in your minmaxed bubble wrap setup then drop half the army in anyhow.

Just design the half of your army that needs to start on the board to be good at clearing chaff, and the half in reserve to be good at clearing heavy targets.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
Ah ok, if its just 'everything is awesome' then I'll pass, I was hoping Jes would have something interesting to say.
I'm not fussed about there being more tanks if they are all as bad as the Repulsor.

That's a bit of an unfair description of it. It was more interesting. Listening to Jes is always interesting.

One thing I found interesting is Primaris were all originally sculpted by Jes as test models - after which they had to be shrunk (!)

Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.

 oni wrote:
Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.

A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".

It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.

Interesting that the Spartan can't transport the New Marines either.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Interesting that the Spartan can't transport the New Marines either.

To make you buy new Primaris tanks that will be able to transport Primaris

 Mr Morden wrote:
Interesting that the Spartan can't transport the New Marines either.

I think they're really trying to drive the point home that they're separate armies to include wholesale movement into the Primaris (especially as they're fleshed out).

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 oni wrote:
Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.

A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".

It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.

More than 9" away and within 1" means you need a 10

DiscoKing wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 oni wrote:
Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.

A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".

It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.

More than 9" away and within 1" means you need a 10

No it would be a 9. If you were exactly 9" away you would need 8" + 1" engage, so 9.1" means 9" + 1" engage.

changemod wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table.

Not really a massive impediment, it'll only take one turn to blow some large holes in your minmaxed bubble wrap setup then drop half the army in anyhow.

Just design the half of your army that needs to start on the board to be good at clearing chaff, and the half in reserve to be good at clearing heavy targets.

Where is this hole gonna be considering I can pick which models I remove? Also with 50 models I can quite easily double or triple up if I want. Or even just have a big ole cluster off to the side that take all the casualties. There is no tank shock or other ways to get past my units in the movement phase so I have my entire turn to plug any holes that occur( See rough riders) or if its from assault use my fall back move to restructure my lines so I am just outside of one inch of you, cancelling out most of your movement phase.

Also remember, that is only 150 points of my army.

Breng77 wrote:

DiscoKing wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 oni wrote:
Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.

A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".

It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.

More than 9" away and within 1" means you need a 10

No it would be a 9. If you were exactly 9" away you would need 8" + 1" engage, so 9.1" means 9" + 1" engage.

Yes sorry my bad

150 points(50 conscripts) and I can basically force your scion deep strike to nearly be back in your deployment zone

Bubble wrap looks to be very very important in this edition. Nothing is quite as good at being bubble wrap as 50 wounds that are essentially immune to morale. Also if you end within 12" of an un-whittled down unit they are going to shoot you 200 times. Sure they are only BS 5+, but Quantity has a Quality all its own.

Edit : slow to the punch again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table.

Not really a massive impediment, it'll only take one turn to blow some large holes in your minmaxed bubble wrap setup then drop half the army in anyhow.

Just design the half of your army that needs to start on the board to be good at clearing chaff, and the half in reserve to be good at clearing heavy targets.

So you're saying that to counter his tactic you need to tactically target certain areas to open up a zone you exploit tactically.

I sure wish this game had some tactics...

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Just don't overcharge them, they will be fine. The Greater Brass Scorpion is beastly! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/05/forge-world-preview-indexes/

Wait, I just woke up. Does this now mean 30k vehicles are usable/playable in 40k games now?

So it's a greater brass scorpion of khorne? Can we have regular brass scorpions too? Pretty please GW.

krazynadechukr wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Just don't overcharge them, they will be fine. The Greater Brass Scorpion is beastly! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/05/forge-world-preview-indexes/

Wait, I just woke up. Does this now mean 30k vehicles are usable/playable in 40k games now?

Yes. For the ones the deign to give us.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Shandara wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Just don't overcharge them, they will be fine. The Greater Brass Scorpion is beastly! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/05/forge-world-preview-indexes/

I'm surprised the Scorpion has the same wounds as the Spartan Relic Tank, which is far cheaper (power level wise) and has a 2+ save.

The Scorpion also has a 5++ and regenerates a wound every turn.

YAAAAAAAAAS!

Daddy Scorpion is coming out to play in 8th!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
So it's a greater brass scorpion of khorne? Can we have regular brass scorpions too? Pretty please GW.

Arent they these guys?
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-IE/Khorne-Blood-Slaughterer-Impaler