40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**spiralingcadaver**

Rippy wrote:
Does anyone know the formula for calculating power levels in to points (there was a rough one hundreds of pages ago)? Would love to figure out the rough cost of the Spartan etc as we get this news.

I haven't gotten done figuring this out, but it's pretty obvious that anything with a static cost is rounded to 1 per 20 points. For units with variable costs, they seem to be going on instinct, between lowest and highest costs, with less of a pattern (they're definitely not particularly consistent, tends to be around 1/20 of nearer the high end than the low end). So.. the Spartan is probably a range of mid to high 400's.

**str00dles1**

Yea, at a very rough estimate 1 power is 20 points. But as mentioned above it is not consistant when you are using units that could be very expensive, like Death Company

**Ghaz**

Warhammer 40,000 Vox-cast: The Sculptors

**Breng77**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Does anyone know the formula for calculating power levels in to points (there was a rough one hundreds of pages ago)? Would love to figure out the rough cost of the Spartan etc as we get this news.
I haven't gotten done figuring this out, but it's pretty obvious that anything with a static cost is rounded to 1 per 20 points. For units with variable costs, they seem to be going on instinct, between lowest and highest costs, with less of a pattern (they're definitely not particularly consistent, tends to be around 1/20 of nearer the high end than the low end). So.. the Spartan is probably a range of mid to high 400's.

I don't think that there is really a direct translation.

Looking at Orks

Warboss - stock is PL 4 ~ 70 points (can be upgraded some) if PL 1= 20 points he should be 80, not crazy with upgrades
Megawarboss- stock is PL 7 ~ 140 points (can be upgraded some) if 20 points would be 140
Warboss on bike - Stock PL 5 ~ 100 points - is 20 would be 100
Weirdboy - PL 4 and ~60 - no upgrades so Should be 80 if PL = 20
Boyz - PL 5 and 60 points (~100 with full upgrades)

So 20 is an ok guideline, but some more complicated units like psykers it is not going to hold.

**JimOnMars**

Wonderwolf wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Someone down the thread guesstimated it to be 1 power point = 20 points, but that was for infantry I think.

I don't think that'll ever work out well.

Just for Space Wolves, there are quite a few units that are cross-wise in costs at power level and point costs.

For example:

Vanilla Rune Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 6 / points 84 (with his default axe, bolt pistol, etc..)
Vanilla Wolf Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 5 / points 90 (with crozium, etc..)

So the Wolf Priest is cheaper at powerlevel, the Rune Priest is cheaper in points.

It's harder with unit, due to variable equipment, but for example:

Wulfen with 1x Claws (leader has to have it) and 4x TH/SS = powerlevel 13 / points = 300

Wolf Guard Terminators, 1x pair of Wolf Claws (to match the Wulfen equipment) and 4x TH/SS = powerlevel 15 / points = 268

I.e. Terminators are cheaper in points, Wulfen are cheaper in power level.

Unless i am missing something obvious.

The Ork index is similarly off on a few units. Most things are 12 points per power level...I'm wonder if that's GW's target?

The battlewagon is surprisingly only 11 power levels. If you're facing orks in narrative play, expect to get mulched.

**Breng77**

Wonderwolf wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Someone down the thread guesstimated it to be 1 power point = 20 points, but that was for infantry I think.

I don't think that'll ever work out well.

Just for Space Wolves, there are quite a few units that are cross-wise in costs at power level and point costs.

For example:

Vanilla Rune Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 6 / points 84 (with his default axe, bolt pistol, etc..)
Vanilla Wolf Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 5 / points 90 (with crozium, etc..)

So the Wolf Priest is cheaper at powerlevel, the Rune Priest is cheaper in points.

It's harder with unit, due to variable equipment, but for example:

Wulfen with 1x Claws (leader has to have it) and 4x TH/SS = powerlevel 13 / points = 300

Wolf Guard Terminators, 1x pair of Wolf Claws (to match the Wulfen equipment) and 4x TH/SS = powerlevel 15 / points = 268

I.e. Terminators are cheaper in points, Wulfen are cheaper in power level.

Unless i am missing something obvious.

I think a lot of that has to do with upgrades, wolf guard can take options wulfen cannot

Wolf guard terminators with Chainfists and Combi-meltas and a cyclone ML which would make 5 of them 410 points (15 PL or 27 points per power level.)

Wulfen at most expensive are 320 points (with TH/SS and Stormfang Launcher) (PL 13 or ~ 24.5 points per power level)

**Bottle**

Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.

**Mr_Rose**

I think it would be interesting to build a bunch of 2000 point armies for various factions and compare which has the higher power levels as-built.
Then you can play those same lists using the various attacker/defender narrative scenarios and see if "equal points but uneven power" has a detectable effect….

**theharrower**

Bottle wrote:
Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.

He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example.

They aren't even close on the power scale.

So are there rules for Pinning and Going to Ground in the Advanced Rules? Saw this pic from Warhammer Fest. Kinda odd there are sides for those when I haven't heard anything about it.

I might have missed it though.

**CthuluIsSpy**

theharrower wrote:
Bottle wrote:
Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.

He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.

So are there rules for Pinning and Going to Ground in the Advanced Rules? Saw this pic from Warhammer Fest. Kinda odd there are sides for those when I haven't heard anything about it.

I might have missed it though.

Not that I have noticed. Could be still referencing the 7th ed book.
Those look like the green plastic counters that popped up in 5th ed. Going by the mat, perhaps its a demo on making them by hand for souvenir purposes?
One tends to find things like that at festivals.

**lord_blackfang**

There is no suppression of any kind in the game other than locking units in combat to prevent them from shooting.

**Eldarain**

Perhaps forthcoming strategems.

**Megaknob**

Is 2000 points the new standard for points based games?

**Alpharius**

Rumor has it that they'll be on the...data sheets?

But would that mean that only certain units can go to ground, etc?

**str00dles1**

Yea, this will be stuff in possible codexes or additional advanced or optional rules. The dice are new for 8th, so they have stuff planned for them

**Rippy**

Megaknob wrote:
Is 2000 points the new standard for points based games?

It's not out yet, so there isn't a standard yet.

**Galas**

They can be used in the "advances rules", like Cities of Death, etc... perhaps.

**Megaknob**

Rippy wrote:
Megaknob wrote:
Is 2000 points the new standard for points based games?

It's not out yet, so there isn't a standard yet.[/quote

Just basing that number on 8th battles I've seen on you tube.

**Rippy**

Megaknob wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Megaknob wrote:
Is 2000 points the new standard for points based games?

It's not out yet, so there isn't a standard yet.

Just basing that number on 8th battles I've seen on you tube.

I think around 2k will be the standard, maybe higher due to most armies getting a price hike!

**BrookM**

Going to ground is something units can do during Planetstrike missions, to mitigate the amount of mortal wounds they take from firestorm attacks.

**unmercifulconker**

Was just about to ask if there were any leaks for IG points and such then checked the godly first post Rippy has kept up to date. Top notch work fella!

**Rippy**

unmercifulconker wrote:
Was just about to ask if there were any leaks for IG points and such then checked the godly first post Rippy has kept up to date. Top notch work fella!

Thanks mate

**Cephalobeard**

2k is the Standard per most major event organizers.

**Daedalus81**

Mr_Rose wrote:
I think it would be interesting to build a bunch of 2000 point armies for various factions and compare which has the higher power levels as-built.
Then you can play those same lists using the various attacker/defender narrative scenarios and see if "equal points but uneven power" has a detectable effect….

My group has done a little of this. I tend to take fewer upgrades so my PL is "low".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

theharrower wrote:
Bottle wrote:
Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.

He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.

It's an average of the min and max upgrades.

Berzerker upgrades:
Chainaxe (all)
Plasma Pistol (up to 2)
Power weapon (champ only)

Death Company upgrades:
Handflamer (all)
Inferno Pistol (all)
Plasma Pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of bolt pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of chainsword (all)
Thunder Hammer (all)
Jump Packs (all)

**Neronoxx**

Right. Bezerkers hit harder in melee but in PL a full DC squad with plasma pistols ensures they dont even get to charge.

**JohnnyHell**

It was mentioned in an early GW article or chat that 2000 was the anticipated tourney level, and things were costed to that.

**RoboDragon**

Guys am i right in saying that a necron destroyer can come back with full wounds after a successful reanimation roll? You can have 6 destroyers in a unit so they are going be ridiculously hard to wipe out if taken in numbers.

**Eldarain**

RoboDragon wrote:
Guys am i right in saying that a necron destroyer can come back with full wounds after a successful reanimation roll? You can have 6 destroyers in a unit so they are going be ridiculously hard to wipe out if taken in numbers.

It isn't clear. There is an active thread in YMDC right now (Not enough evidence either way IMO to resolve at this time) It has been added to Yakface's FAQ submission list I'm sure.

**Rippy**

Ghaz wrote:
Warhammer 40,000 Vox-cast: The Sculptors

Spoiler:

Maxime: "I designed all the awesome models"
Aly: "pox walkers are cool too!"

Reminded me a bit of the David Brett from the Office after the dance off

"Donate for both of the wonderful dances"

(For the record I do love the pox walker's models)

**Ghaz**

Rippy wrote:
(For the record I do love the pox walker's models"

Except the one in the lab coat, because he reminds me too much of a certain Spider-man villain

...