40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**Rippy**

Ghaz wrote:
Rippy wrote:
(For the record I do love the pox walker's models"

Except the one in the lab coat, because he reminds me too much of a certain Spider-man villain ...

They did say in that interview that it could be a commissar or a scientist, that coat could be painted as a commissar's jacket to good effect.

**GoatboyBeta**

Dark Imperium novel spoilers and speculation ahoy!

Spoiler:

**Ghaz**

Rippy wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Rippy wrote:
(For the record I do love the pox walker's models"

Except the one in the lab coat, because he reminds me too much of a certain Spider-man villain ...

They did say in that interview that it could be a commissar or a scientist, that coat could be painted as a commissar's jacket to good effect.

Sorry, but what's been seen can't be unseen...

**NivlacSupreme**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Dark Imperium novel spoilers and speculation ahoy!

Spoiler:

Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.

Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.

Plastic Thunderhawk rumours could have been talking about that monstrosity.

**Megaknob**

Rippy wrote:
Megaknob wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Megaknob wrote:
Is 2000 points the new standard for points based games?

It's not out yet, so there isn't a standard yet.

Just basing that number on 8th battles I've seen on you tube.

I think around 2k will be the standard, maybe higher due to most armies getting a price hike!

Personally I'm fine with the 2000 points mark but I think other armies like tau and elder will need more points to field armies similar to 7th

**Kharne the Befriender**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Dark Imperium novel spoilers and speculation ahoy!

Spoiler:

Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.

Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.

Those Aggressors sound like Primaris Terminators, and those Reivers sound absolutely amazing

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

So after decades of rumours and fans wishing for a plastic Thunderhawk kit, GW finally gives us...a plastic Super Space Marine Overlord kit instead.

This would be so typical of Gamesworkshop.

**Daedalus81**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So after decades of rumours and fans wishing for a plastic Thunderhawk kit, GW finally gives us...a plastic Super Space Marine Overlord kit instead.

This would be so typical of Gamesworkshop.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.

**Chopxsticks**

Is Death Guard getting anything else? I cant help but notice the Primaris Marines have 2 more large models coming.

**Eldarain**

Mortarion, Terminator Kit. Probably more.

**Kanluwen**

Eldarain wrote:
Mortarion, Terminator Kit. Probably more.

We saw vehicles in the teaser video as well as Poxwalkers that weren't in the starter set.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Eldarain wrote:
Mortarion, Terminator Kit. Probably more.

Probably Havocs, considering how they are meant to be traditional plague marine unit.

**Galas**

From Hastings (This was posted 8 days ago, before we knew about the Repulsor tank)

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/warofsigmar/war_of_sigmar_rumors_and_rules_for_age_of_sigmar_4621/#comment-3330122394

AFAIK "Initially" there are 4 boxes of "troops/infantry/marines" (including the flying ones), 2 vehicles, the Dread, and 2 "character" sets, which I assume will be captains and Lieutenants. As for when I rarely dare to dabble in such things (especially after the timing of the plastic thunderhawk release.... which might still actually not be wrong, just my guess at the timing thanks to the "we've sold our last resin thunderhawk" making me jump to conclusions!). I will say I am "expecting" Death Guard to release after the boxed set and for new marines to be closely behind them..... however I could be wrong of course

So... 1 more Primaris Vehicle and two more infantry kits (I assume Hellblasters and the normal Intercessor are the same box). Probably the new Agressors=Gravis Kit (Primaris terminator-equivalent), and a box for the Scout-kind of meele assasin Primaris mentioned in the novel (The Reivers. With some kind of cloak-armour and skull helmets) .

EDIT: Basically what Goatboybeta writed, but by Hastings. The pieces of the puzzle start to fit!

Novel description of the reivers:

Spoiler:

**Rippy**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Dark Imperium novel spoilers and speculation ahoy!

Spoiler:

Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.

Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.

Thank you GoatboyBeta, I will get this added to the OP.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Galas wrote:
From Hastings (This was posted 8 days ago, before we knew about the Repulsor tank)

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/warofsigmar/war_of_sigmar_rumors_and_rules_for_age_of_sigmar_4621/#comment-3330122394

AFAIK "Initially" there are 4 boxes of "troops/infantry/marines" (including the flying ones), 2 vehicles, the Dread, and 2 "character" sets, which I assume will be captains and Lieutenants. As for when I rarely dare to dabble in such things (especially after the timing of the plastic thunderhawk release.... which might still actually not be wrong, just my guess at the timing thanks to the "we've sold our last resin thunderhawk" making me jump to conclusions!). I will say I am "expecting" Death Guard to release after the boxed set and for new marines to be closely behind them..... however I could be wrong of course

So... 1 more Primaris Vehicle and two more infantry kits (I assume Hellblasters and the normal Intercessor are the same box). Probably the new Agressors=Gravis Kit (Primaros terminator-equivalent), and a box for the Scout-kind of meele assasin Primaris mentioned in the novel (The Reivers. With some kind of cloak-armour and skull helmets) .

EDIT: Basically what Goatboybeta writed, but by Hastings. The pieces of the puzzle start to fit!

Novel description of the reivers:

Spoiler:

"The Reiver squad was armed with oversized combat knives glimmering with disruption fields, and heavy bolt pistols. Their helms were death’s heads, and their left pauldrons enlarged to provide better protection in melee. Their power armour was eerily silent, adapted for stealth work. Reivers were an infiltration and close-combat specialisation. "

Some thoughts :

TIL Reiver is an actual word and not a mispelling of Reaver. Although they both sort of mean the same thing.
I wonder if they hire one guy to flip through a thesaurus and try to find relevant names for things.

Anyway, I do wonder how the skull helmet will turn out. Will it be like that assassin and the chaplain? Or will they try to put a twist on it?
I have a sinking feeling they will look comical; they will have a big pauldron on one side and a skull face. That can go wrong really quickly.

What is a heavy bolt pistol? Is it a pistol that fires heavy bolter caliber bolts? Are we looking at a S5 AP-1 pistol? Its not what the interceptors have; they have assault bolters.

**nintura**

Have we seen rules for Vulkan He'stan yet?

**Platuan4th**

nintura wrote:
Have we seen rules for Vulkan He'stan yet?

Yes.

**nintura**

Platuan4th wrote:
nintura wrote:
Have we seen rules for Vulkan He'stan yet?

Yes.

Which book is it listed in? the Space Marine index?

**casvalremdeikun**

nintura wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
nintura wrote:
Have we seen rules for Vulkan He'stan yet?

Yes.

Which book is it listed in? the Space Marine index?

Imperium I.

**nintura**

Wow, I dont know if he's worth it anymore. Only a 6" buff? Im not very good at figuring out the math of figures, but still...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it just my imagination or is it Salamanders have the least amount of space given for a first founding chapter? Only 2 pages.... While Blood Angels have like 10 or 12

**Matt.Kingsley**

nintura wrote:
Wow, I dont know if he's worth it anymore. Only a 6" buff? Im not very good at figuring out the math of figures, but still...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it just my imagination or is it Salamanders have the least amount of space given for a first founding chapter? Only 2 pages.... While Blood Angels have like 10 or 12

Only if 2 Salamander pages is less than the 0 Iron Hands got.
Or the 2 pages every other Non Ultramarine/BA/DA/SW 1st founding chapter got.

Also I wouldn't say he's not worth it, just that he is no longer an auto-take (which is a good thing imho)

**Galas**

Because they have only 1 special character. Imperial Fists have only 2 pages too. Iron Hands have 0.

Obvious, the chapters that had a codex have much more special options: Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars.

And in general all the buffing bubbles are 6" so it isn't like Vulkan is weaker in that effect that others HQ

EDIT: Ninja'd

**nintura**

I understand that I have to get used to not being over the top power like 7th, but he's 156 points which puts him near the top 6 or so in special characters.

**SilverAlien**

nintura wrote:
I understand that I have to get used to not being over the top power like 7th, but he's 156 points which puts him near the top 6 or so in special characters.

He also gives really good buffs in his range. You can run multi melta devastators that fire on the move more accurately than most lascannon devs would while stationary, with better chances to wound as well. Plus You can have a nasty set of flamer company veterans/sternguard to deal with infantry/melee units. Not to mention his own excellent CC ability. Used correctly, I'd say he is at least as good as pedro despite being cheaper (though you have to really invest in his accompanying units).

Kanluwen wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Mortarion, Terminator Kit. Probably more.

We saw vehicles in the teaser video as well as Poxwalkers that weren't in the starter set.

Did we see any vehicles clearly enough to determine they were actually new, and not existing vehicles? For that matter, were the other poxwalkers clearly poxwalkers and not cultists?

**theharrower**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Mr_Rose wrote:
I think it would be interesting to build a bunch of 2000 point armies for various factions and compare which has the higher power levels as-built.
Then you can play those same lists using the various attacker/defender narrative scenarios and see if "equal points but uneven power" has a detectable effect….

My group has done a little of this. I tend to take fewer upgrades so my PL is "low".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

theharrower wrote:
Bottle wrote:
Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.

He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.

It's an average of the min and max upgrades.

Berzerker upgrades:
Chainaxe (all)
Plasma Pistol (up to 2)
Power weapon (champ only)

Death Company upgrades:
Handflamer (all)
Inferno Pistol (all)
Plasma Pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of bolt pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of chainsword (all)
Thunder Hammer (all)
Jump Packs (all)

Yeah man, I get how it works and what it represents. My point was a person that wrote the rules should understand that it isn't always a good indicator of the power level for a unit as the Berzerkers totally trash the Death Company. Sure all tooled up Death Company take it because they can all have Power Fists and Inferno Pistols. The problem is it isn't a simple comparison of unit vs. unit which makes Power Level misleading and frankly kinda worthless.

CthululsSpy wrote:Not that I have noticed. Could be still referencing the 7th ed book

It's not. These were created strictly for 8th Edition and there was no "Advance" in 7th that I'm aware of.

**Kanluwen**

SilverAlien wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Mortarion, Terminator Kit. Probably more.

We saw vehicles in the teaser video as well as Poxwalkers that weren't in the starter set.

Did we see any vehicles clearly enough to determine they were actually new, and not existing vehicles?

Yes.

For that matter, were the other poxwalkers clearly poxwalkers and not cultists?

Considering everyone kept calling what we now know to be "Poxwalkers" Cultists, I think it's safe to say that yes it was Poxwalkers.

**Kharne the Befriender**

If you go to the link for the leaks and click on the rule book, there's something odd.
If you go to the second page on the right side, there's a picture of a game between what looks like Marines and Nids?
If you look at the bottom right of that picture there's a model in Imperial Fist color schemes that looks out of place.
Can anyone identify the model, it might be one we haven't seen

EDIT: Nevermind, it's just a tau'nar

**batchall**

Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists.

Shoulder mounted missile launchers?
That reminds me of those Jes Goodwin devastator concept drawings that came out years ago (2013?).
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/544835.page

**NivlacSupreme**

batchall wrote:
Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists.

Shoulder mounted missile launchers?
That reminds me of those Jes Goodwin devastator concept drawings that came out years ago (2013?).
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/544835.page

He did work on this.

**H.B.M.C.**

batchall wrote:
Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists.

Shoulder mounted missile launchers?
That reminds me of those Jes Goodwin devastator concept drawings that came out years ago (2013?).
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/544835.page

Could'a sworn these were Mark Gibbon's concepts from the 4th Ed Marine Codex.

Either way, when they started talking about the Primaris Marines these things instantly came to mind. I would not be opposed to them seeing the light of day, even if they are in the wrong scale for 40k.