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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/01/new-warhammer-40000-charge-phasegw-homepage-post-4/

Terrible

Not a lot of change.

To be honest, I was really hoping for a M+D6 charge range.

"same as now, add an inch to the charge." Could have made a slightly more interesting article than that.

in theory this is an average charge range of 8" now (7 dice average + the "extra" inch) but I still would have prefered a set charge distance based on the Movement stat. This means a slow-ass model has the exact same charge speed as a fast model. Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Somehow I get the feeling my world eaters is going to sit out yet another edition.

Yeah, gotta say, after all the good stuff they've been doing, this is probably the most disappointing thing so far. Why couldn't it have just been like AoS? Way simpler and kind of just better IMO.

I actually think the "you cannot move within 1" of an enemy you did not declare as a target of your charge" is the big part of this, you could very easily force units to multi-charge your units, and can also screen much more easily. Unless the means you cannot end your move within 1" it also means models jumping over screens is a thing of the past (unless exceptions are made.)

The only difference between this and AoS is overwatch and having to declare a target ahead of time.

Yeah that's pretty disappointing. Overwatch is a terrible mechanic that needed to go, not be improved, and I'd have preferred something closer to AoS where you roll dice first, then declare target.

Also no mention of whether the effect of charging into terrain remains the same.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The only difference between this and AoS is overwatch and having to declare a target ahead of time.

Yeah I think both of those aren't necessary. It's a lot nicer to roll your charge distance then choose a unit to charge based on that. And overwatch is annoying. Why do you get an additional turn of shooting when you just had your shooting phase? They're little things that I think still make it less fun than the AoS way. I'm an IG player and still think it should've been more freeing. And now being able to overwatch multiple times?
I dunno, just feels a little bit punishing still for Assault armies again. That said, it's still early, so I'll have to wait and see. It's just my pre-conceived ideas, and I'm more than happy to be wrong. Everything else about 8th has me super keen

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Not a lot of change.

To be honest, I was really hoping for a M+D6 charge range.

That or just M for charge range. I hope Hormagants for example will get a bonus to the roll. Otherwise they would effectively move slower when charging because they will have like 8"-12" M.

To be fair if I'm reading the article right, it says you move 2D6 towards your target. So I would guess that means even if you "fail" the charge you still move that distance. If that is the case I guess that could be useful for some units instead of just sitting there, as you would then be closer for your next turn ( assuming that unit doesn't die to shooting, but from the earlier article about just moving out of combat I'm assuming it might happen regardless of you getting into melee or not).

Yeah... This is shaping up to be another shooting addition, honestly. Sad panda.

CommissarClay wrote:
To be fair if I'm reading the article right, it says you move 2D6 towards your target. So I would guess that means even if you "fail" the charge you still move that distance. If that is the case I guess that could be useful for some units instead of just sitting there, as you would then be closer for your next turn ( assuming that unit doesn't die to shooting, but from the earlier article about just moving out of combat I'm assuming it might happen regardless of you getting into melee or not).

I'd agree with you but it doesn't point it out as a new feature, so I'm assuming it's just how they wrote it and the actual rule stays the same of staying still if you fail the charge range. It'd certainly be interesting though if you did get to move up to the distance you rolled, even if you don't make it to your target

nordsturmking wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Not a lot of change.

To be honest, I was really hoping for a M+D6 charge range.

That or just M for charge range. I hope Hormagants for example will get a bonus to the roll. Otherwise they would effectively move slower when charging because they will have like 8"-12" M.

Yeah, just to have it tied to the movement stat somehow.

Mostly so that you wouldn't need extra rules like fleet, etc.

What this means is "BUY OUR TRANSPORTS!!!"

 JNAProductions wrote:
The only difference between this and AoS is overwatch and having to declare a target ahead of time.

The other difference is the distance. In AoS you can only be a minimum distance of 3" away. In 40k its 1"

On the other hand, AoS doesn't have penalties to charging through terrain unlike 40k where you add 2" so it kinda balances out.

I'd say the biggest change to Overwatch is that you can shoot multiple Overwatches as long as you're not engaged. So charging with your chaff to soak Overwatch, even if they don't make it, wont be as effective.

 alanmckenzie wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:

 alanmckenzie wrote:
Not a lot of change.

To be honest, I was really hoping for a M+D6 charge range.

That or just M for charge range. I hope Hormagants for example will get a bonus to the roll. Otherwise they would effectively move slower when charging because they will have like 8"-12" M.

Yeah, just to have it tied to the movement stat somehow.

Mostly so that you wouldn't need extra rules like fleet, etc.

In AoS, if a unit is particularly fast, they get an extra dice or so for their charge distance. If not, re-rolls and things are common or being able to Run (or Advance in this case) and charge in the same turn, that kind of stuff. So I'd expect the same kind of thing for assault based armies in 8th. And the rules will be on their Datasheets (or whatever they'll be called as Warscroll equivalents) specifically, rather than being an extra universal rule to have in the core rules, I'd suspect.

With all the interesting changes being made, this seems stagnant and counterintuitive. I would venture this would be one of the easiest things to fix or adjust. I guess we'll have to see how it fits when all is said and done but as mentioned earlier this seems like a wasted opportunity.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The only difference between this and AoS is overwatch and having to declare a target ahead of time.

Not quite. In AoS, you roll your charge distance before actually selecting any targets (you just need to have an enemy unit within 12"). So you can evaluate the situation after the roll and perhaps go for a closer range target if your distance is not as long as you originally wanted/needed. Moreover, unlike in 40k, AoS charging does not require you to take the shortest possible route either (no mention in this article of whether this is going to be the case for 40k). In AoS, you are free to move your models in the most optimal route for your tactical situation, or control the formation of your charge in order to hit the enemy unit(s) the hardest.

With none of this being mentioned in the article, I'm worried that charging 8th ed 40k is going to be miss out on a lot of the nuance of AoS' maneuvers.

EDIT: If we can roll our charge and THEN decide what to do, that is much better.

I've been very excited about this edition, but random charge rolls are a tax on melee players that is unfair and unfun. Right now, to shoot you have to:

1. Be within range
2. Have LOS
3. Roll to hit
4. Roll to wound
5. Have the wound not saved

To engage in a charge you have to

1. Be within at least 12 inches
2. Survive overwatch
3. Beat a 2D6 range test
4. Get models in contact with other models
5. Roll to hit
6. Roll to wound
7. Have the wound not saved
8. Survive counterattack

It just would be so much nicer if I could KNOW the range of my attack, like a shooting attack. While I recognize that the rewards of a successful charge are potentially greater than a successful shooting attack, they are not THAT much better that I should have to survive 2 versions of a counterattack in the same round to make my attack.

Much of this is speculation: maybe overwatchers can't attack in H2H in 8E, but it doesn't seem that way.

An idea I've heard tossed around is 2d6 charge range, with a minimum equal to your Initiative value. Obviously that wouldn't work without the Initiative stat, but they could do something like that, related to movement probably.

And, to Tiberius, who says some units won't have special abilities letting them charge farther?

 JNAProductions wrote:
An idea I've heard tossed around is 2d6 charge range, with a minimum equal to your Initiative value. Obviously that wouldn't work without the Initiative stat, but they could do something like that, related to movement probably.

And, to Tiberius, who says some units won't have special abilities letting them charge farther?

Wasn't the point of the movement stat being brought back supposed to remove the need for units to have special movement/charge rules?

Honestly, as an assault army players, I like these rules. I don't 'get' why everyone seems so bent out of shape about it. Overwatch is good (and logical). Rolling 2D6 makes sense because this is, after all, a dice game.

I'm all for it. Plus remember, you can assault out of like every transport now.

Audustum wrote:
Honestly, as an assault army players, I like these rules. I don't 'get' why everyone seems so bent out of shape about it. Overwatch is good (and logical). Rolling 2D6 makes sense because this is, after all, a dice game.

I'm all for it. Plus remember, you can assault out of like every transport now.

Where did they say that?

Edit: AoS has a move stat and has special charge rules. Why can't 40k?

Audustum wrote:
Honestly, as an assault army players, I like these rules. I don't 'get' why everyone seems so bent out of shape about it. Overwatch is good (and logical). Rolling 2D6 makes sense because this is, after all, a dice game.

I'm all for it. Plus remember, you can assault out of like every transport now.

I have seen nothing that says you can assault out of any transport.
And everyone hates 2D6 charge because of failing 3" charges (sure it'll be 4" now but still)

Add that the "sacrifice overwatch" tactic of throwing a unit at the enemy first won't be as good with them allowing multiple overwatches if unengaged
I.e the "sacrifice" unit must A) survive and B) get there
While in 7th they just need to be in potential charge range

I believe people were saying that in the...I think it was the 8th Movement Thread? I just took it at face value.

I look at the Charge phase as given and can't help but think there will be myriad rules that allow a unit to do one or more of: reroll charge distance, ignore Overwatch, declare target at over 12" then move the full distance, roll 3D6, etc, etc.

Article could have been summed up in 2 lines

Charge works almost the exact same.
Just need to make it with in an inch, not base to base now.

Would love if they could clarify whether the charging unit gets to move the 2d6" whether or not they rolled high enough to engage. They answered all the whining, but didn't answer that question. Well, we'll find out soon enough. But that's not soon enough!