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Rippy wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Brutus_Apex wrote:-Characters can't join units.

Has this been confirmed a thing yet, or just a Sigmarizing expectation?

To be honest, most of the arguments till the latest update were how IC's interacted with the units they have joined.

It was the way they corrected their wording during the QA, from "joining a unit" to being "near a unit", or there abouts.

So, nothing stated, just assumed based on indirect evidence.

 Charistoph wrote:

Rippy wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Brutus_Apex wrote:-Characters can't join units.

Has this been confirmed a thing yet, or just a Sigmarizing expectation?

To be honest, most of the arguments till the latest update were how IC's interacted with the units they have joined.

It was the way they corrected their wording during the QA, from "joining a unit" to being "near a unit", or there abouts.

So, nothing stated, just assumed based on indirect evidence.

I dunno, based on how the rest of the forums reacting that's TOO much information. He should of started panicking and assuming back when it was 'nothing'.

ERJAK wrote:
I dunno, based on how the rest of the forums reacting that's TOO much information. He should of started panicking and assuming back when it was 'nothing'.

Pfft, people have been panicking about 8th Edition when the rumors of 7th Edition were getting close to the announcement date, so at least there would be company.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Command Points and stratagems are the aspects I'm most excited about.

These could turn 40K into an actual game with tactical depth and important decisions players have to take. Right now the most important decisions are happening before the game when building a list, sadly.

Me, too!

It's going to be like Apocalypse again. Minenfelden FTW!

So, yeah, I don't the the moral system has changed at all.

yes, good joke. serves me right for forgetting to add the "e".

If I'm wrong about IC not being able to join units then I'll gladly be wrong. So far there have been unconfirmed rumours about them not being able to join.

If GW comes out and says that IC will be able to join units, then great. I will be back into the cautiously optimistic camp and actually look forward to giving 8th edition a try.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

So, yeah, I don't the the moral system has changed at all.

yes, good joke. serves me right for forgetting to add the "e".

It's an easy mistake. I see it happening all the time.

And considering how the morals of the 40K universe are actually as bad as the morale of most of the peoples (except maybe the Orks), its not like they aren't that incompatible. It's more making fun of the universe than you. I've slipped up on that one. It's not like spell checking can identify it.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
If I'm wrong about IC not being able to join units then I'll gladly be wrong. So far there have been unconfirmed rumours about them not being able to join.

If GW comes out and says that IC will be able to join units, then great. I will be back into the cautiously optimistic camp and actually look forward to giving 8th edition a try.

I just wanted to know if I have missed something. As I said, ICs have some great concepts behind them, but have been the cause of the biggest arguments regarding 40K because they also led to some very problematic situations that people didn't want to have to deal with.

If they Sigmarize the Characters, it will actually make it easier on so many of the rule interactions, but leading from the front will be suicide for all but the toughest of beings.

I fully understand the rules dispute issues, and I very much disliked the death star fluff abominations that popped up in 7th.

For me though, a large part of my enjoyment of this game is related to creating characters and running them with their intended bodyguard units or whatever. It's a large part of the fluff and narrative for me.

If it is the case of IC not being able to join units, I won't be able to run my Terminator Chaplain with his Assault Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader anymore. This really bothers me, both from a fluff and rules perspective.

I'm not saying there won't be work arounds, hell I don't even know if the rumour about IC's is completely true. But the whole idea of it for me is an issue.

Considering how many people are disgruntled with 7th edition, and GW itself, I am surprised there is only 20% of people who pressed no.

 Rippy wrote:
Considering how many people are disgruntled with 7th edition, and GW itself, I am surprised there is only 20% of people who pressed no.

LESS THAN 20%!

And yes, that's surprising.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I fully understand the rules dispute issues, and I very much disliked the death star fluff abominations that popped up in 7th.

For me though, a large part of my enjoyment of this game is related to creating characters and running them with their intended bodyguard units or whatever. It's a large part of the fluff and narrative for me.

If it is the case of IC not being able to join units, I won't be able to run my Terminator Chaplain with his Assault Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader anymore. This really bothers me, both from a fluff and rules perspective.

I'm not saying there won't be work arounds, hell I don't even know if the rumour about IC's is completely true. But the whole idea of it for me is an issue.

Well, we don't know how Transports and Characters are going to work. The closest that AoS has just came out with the dirigibles, and I haven't looked up the information on them yet.

So, it is possible that they may be separate outside the Transport, your Chaplain could be riding the Land Raider with them. Too many unknowns at this point.

I am still excited. I think 8th will be a step in the right direction.

But detachments they've shown really disappoint me. What's wrong with variety by faction? Thematic armies will be relegated to unbound. Formations in general were not a problem, a couple were, but mainly it was specific undercosted units.

I really hate the concept of mortal wounds. It just seems lazy. If it's present only in a few specific psychic powers, that's not as bad, but still. Strong psykers should be able to save against psychic wounds.

 Marmatag wrote:

But detachments they've shown really disappoint me. What's wrong with variety by faction?

I would be very surprised if there aren't faction -specific detachments on the army books.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I fully understand the rules dispute issues, and I very much disliked the death star fluff abominations that popped up in 7th.

For me though, a large part of my enjoyment of this game is related to creating characters and running them with their intended bodyguard units or whatever. It's a large part of the fluff and narrative for me.

If it is the case of IC not being able to join units, I won't be able to run my Terminator Chaplain with his Assault Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader anymore. This really bothers me, both from a fluff and rules perspective.

I'm not saying there won't be work arounds, hell I don't even know if the rumour about IC's is completely true. But the whole idea of it for me is an issue.

If the transports of the Kharadron Overlords are any indication, you will be capable of putting in the same transport units and characters even if they are not the same unit.
I don't mind if they don't allow IC joining squads, as long as they give them some type of "look out sir!" if near a friendly unit of the same type, and let them join together transports.

In resume: Keep the better parts of IC joining squads with the added benefit of flexibility and no Deathstars.

 oni wrote:
I went from unenthusiastic to hopefully optimistic right back to unenthusiastic.

I feel like I'm watching history repeat itself right before my eyes.

I've been playing this game for a very long time and have seen play mechanics come and go. A lot of what is in 8th edition has been done before. It didn't work then and it's unlikely to work now.

Confirmed 8th edition mechanics that were dumped from previous editions because they were problematic:
- Movement stat (created issues in 2nd ed. where really fast armies had a massive advantage over slower ones)
- Armour Save modifiers (these pesky things rendered all armour that wasn't terminator armour completely useless in 2nd ed.)
- Drawing nearby units into combat (a complete nightmare from 3rd & 4th that made for some of the most un-enjoyable games in the history of Warhammer 40,000)
- Independent characters able to be targeted by themselves (congratulations! one of the worst mechanics from 4th ed. is back... character sniping is a thing again)
- Mechanisms that heavily favor MSU (this was more of a problem with codexes in 4th ed. - where there was more incentive to take multiple small units rather than max out unit sizes)
- Wound allocation to models of the controlling players choice (does no one remember the dirty wound allocation shenanigans from 5th ed.?)

It's almost like someone pulled the most epic troll on GW and convinced them to bring back for 8th ed. some of the worst 40K game mechanics that have ever existed.

Gotta disagree I didn't play 3rd but Ive played 4th onwards. As I see it.

- Fantasy has always had movestat, lots of other systems have move stats? It maybe why they kept run n assault flat/random and not based on unit speed so to not put to much power in the hands of faster armies.
- currently armour save of 5/6 might as well not exist, how does the current ap system not make armour pointless, yeah pull the other one. This makes cover point fun to all armies units to. IMO great stuff.
-pulling units into combat, only if you can have a big enough Mexican wave or can pile in the tiny distance, not likely to happen often considering the damage ranks of shooting does to horde assault armies.
-not sure yet, look out sir or cover saves from near by units may solve this if characters that are incoherency doesn't prevent snipping, it's not a massive issue in AoS but there obviously less guns. But we don't have all the info yet. Characters need to be big sellers considering single spruce £££ they be daft to make them worthless in game.
-possibly an issue but if max size units open up the support weapons and buffs then it's self balancing.
-wound allocation is stacked on a single model till it dies, so no shenanigans. Unlike currently where you can stand a character at the front soak up wounds them move to make to avoid more, which sounds more like shenanigans.

If they do wound allocation like AoS, where you put wounds in a model until it dies, it will eliminate the shenanigans of wound acollocations.

If you terminator squad of 10 with 2 wounds each takes 5 wounds, you lose 2 terminators and 1 is down to 1 wound. Easy and simple, and lets your heavy weapon and sargeants be in the front and be usefull without having them in the back, letting them be the last to die.

This slow, piecemeal method of reveals has been a roller coaster of confidence in the new edition. Though with the Battle Forged article, my hopes are back almost as high as they were before Morale hit.

Let's be honest: they would have to try pretty hard to publish something that isn't somewhat of an improvement on 7th.

LOL at the poll numbers. Yet another whiny OP who doesn't realize he's in the minority.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
LOL at the poll numbers. Yet another whiny OP who doesn't realize he's in the minority.

While I agree with the sentiment in general, no one likes a sore winner.

I'm still excited. That's literally all have to say.

Im still excited but was very disappointed to see charges with random rolling being kept. More than disappointed actually.
I think its a big flaw and possible let down.
Apart from that though, looking forward to it!

Just wanted to say that I am still excited with all of the recent updates

Well. They´ve killed my Tyranids seemingly for good.
They´ve killed my Word Bearers.
They´ve introduced that sundered AdMech-joke.
They´ve fethed up the whole game with the seventh.

They´ve killed WFB slowly with the eighth. And replaced it with yet another unfunny joke.

Its interesting, but I have serious doupts they´ve got it this time.
I will see. When I have the whole rules in its context.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
LOL at the poll numbers. Yet another whiny OP who doesn't realize he's in the minority.

Being in the minority doesn't necessarily make you wrong. Questioning the majority makes you a critical thinker. This kind of "majority is always right" mindset is frankly, quite frightening.

Some of us here including myself gave GW the benefit of the doubt when Fantasy was replaced by AOS, only to have my favourite game destroyed and replaced with what I deem as one of the worst gaming systems ever written.

Maybe this time I'm not so willing to trust GW, considering what they did to a great many things that I loved.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
LOL at the poll numbers. Yet another whiny OP who doesn't realize he's in the minority.

Being in the minority doesn't necessarily make you wrong. Questioning the majority makes you a critical thinker. This kind of "majority is always right" mindset is frankly, quite frightening.

Some of us here including myself gave GW the benefit of the doubt when Fantasy was replaced by AOS, only to have my favourite game destroyed and replaced with what I deem as one of the worst gaming systems ever written.

Maybe this time I'm not so willing to trust GW, considering what they did to a great many things that I loved.

Questioning the majority is not in itself enough to make you a critical thinker and don't pretend YOU'RE 'a critical thinker' just because you're a pessimist. Doomsaying=/=Critical thinking and If the polls had gone the other direction you'd be crowing in the exact same way.

Being bitter about Fantasy is totally justified, if you really loved that game seeing it go must be arse; but pretending that AoS isn't a fun game, or that AoS isn't 'tactical', or that it's 'for children' or all the other stupid crap old Fantasy players come out with is wrong and the fact that AoS has seen great success, especially on the competitive scene where it has been slowly drawing away high level 40k players who are sick of the cancerous 7th edition meta, means that as much as it sucks GW were right to choose AoS over WHFB.

Questioning the majority is not in itself enough to make you a critical thinker and don't pretend YOU'RE 'a critical thinker' just because you're a pessimist. Doomsaying=/=Critical thinking and If the polls had gone the other direction you'd be crowing in the exact same way.

I don't have to pretend anything buddy, I already know I am. No one was doomsaying anything. I'm straight up telling it like it is, the psychic system is bad, the morale system is bad. IC not being able to join units is immersion breaking.

Just because you like bad game mechanics doesn't mean AOS is a good game. So lets not pretend like it is just because it has had the same amount of success as fantasy had before 8th edition.

Furthermore, If I was doomsaying, why would I admit to liking some of the mechanics that they have implemented into 40K 8th ed? Such as formations, command points, shooting and weapon profiles.

I was until the formations got removed. Well I guess I still think the edition looks much better and I love how GW is finally engaging with players, but my army is effed without its very specific formation.
Great I can only play a themed fluffy army in narrative unbound no-points army men games now.

Danny slag wrote:
I was until the formations got removed. Well I guess I still think the edition looks much better and I love how GW is finally engaging with players, but my army is effed without its very specific formation.
Great I can only play a themed fluffy army in narrative unbound no-points army men games now.

Which army? Maybe it got its necessary boosts without the formation or one of the detachments will be catered to it.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
LOL at the poll numbers. Yet another whiny OP who doesn't realize he's in the minority.

Then you haven't read a single one of my posts ....
Whiny?
Try again.
I started this thread to generate civil discussion, field insight and frankly to give me reason to not turn negative on GW and this is laregly what had been happening.
Then along came a spider...
Besides all that what is so wrong with being in the minority? You think popular = win?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
LOL at the poll numbers. Yet another whiny OP who doesn't realize he's in the minority.

Being in the minority doesn't necessarily make you wrong. Questioning the majority makes you a critical thinker. This kind of "majority is always right" mindset is frankly, quite frightening.

Some of us here including myself gave GW the benefit of the doubt when Fantasy was replaced by AOS, only to have my favourite game destroyed and replaced with what I deem as one of the worst gaming systems ever written.

Maybe this time I'm not so willing to trust GW, considering what they did to a great many things that I loved.

Questioning the majority is not in itself enough to make you a critical thinker and don't pretend YOU'RE 'a critical thinker' just because you're a pessimist. Doomsaying=/=Critical thinking and If the polls had gone the other direction you'd be crowing in the exact same way.

Being bitter about Fantasy is totally justified, if you really loved that game seeing it go must be arse; but pretending that AoS isn't a fun game, or that AoS isn't 'tactical', or that it's 'for children' or all the other stupid crap old Fantasy players come out with is wrong and the fact that AoS has seen great success, especially on the competitive scene where it has been slowly drawing away high level 40k players who are sick of the cancerous 7th edition meta, means that as much as it sucks GW were right to choose AoS over WHFB.

Glad you enjoy it.
Gladder you do it nowhere near me.
Not because I hate the game mind you.
After reading dakka and some other boards been thinking about dusting off the old gobbos and maybe someday rebasing them but again I am reminded what really turns my stomach - wasting an afternoon with spoiled shallow brats berated by their weak minded tribalism and cheap majority machismo fueling their groupthink aggression like cheap whiskey and daddy's credit card.
I didn't start this thread to question any majority. I did it to give voice to concerns various and diverse... But I guess that in the current era this is no longer a virtuous enterprise.
I am also not a pessimist by nature. Rather after everything following second and early third edition and what happened to WFB and then the infiltration of the WAAC deck building ethos into something that simply wasn't that, well I have some basis for expecting people to shall we just say disappoint.

By the way this stuff about crowing over results is your projection onto others and evidences a deep disrespect for other people. Really. Not a good sign.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ankhalagon wrote:
Well. They´ve killed my Tyranids seemingly for good.
They´ve killed my Word Bearers.
They´ve introduced that sundered AdMech-joke.
They´ve fethed up the whole game with the seventh.

They´ve killed WFB slowly with the eighth. And replaced it with yet another unfunny joke.

Its interesting, but I have serious doupts they´ve got it this time.
I will see. When I have the whole rules in its context.

Yeah I am also looking toward to seeing how the whole thing hangs together.



=======================
Sorry for the edits.
Late. Using a tablet with autospellcheck and had to rewrite a few dozen yous into something responsible.

Marmatag wrote:Strong psykers should be able to save against psychic wounds.

Which I think they still can, by cancelling the other psyker's powers. And maybe some psykers will have their own psychic powers that can affect their defenses, maybe even reducing Mortal Wounds to regular wounds as long as the power is active. That, to me, is the problem with all the speculation... it's speculation. Sometimes even a heavy dose of wishthinking.

insaniak wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

But detachments they've shown really disappoint me. What's wrong with variety by faction?

I would be very surprised if there aren't faction -specific detachments on the army books.

We have seen three Force Organisation Charts, I believe. The main rules would have a dozen (or something like that, my memories and their included numbers may vary). The three shown were just basic Patrol, Battalion and Brigade charts. Again, speculating and wishthinking, there will also be an Assault Element chart, with only two troops, two elites, and ten fast attack slots. Who knows (except people at GW, and they're not telling yet)? And like Insaniak opted, what will happen if the 'true' army books (would they still call them codices then?) arrive? They might as well include a Tyranid Assault Swarm chart or a Tyranid Monstrous Creature Terror chart, with the Assault Swarm being a whole lot mote troops and fast attack than a basic Patrol, Battalion or Brigade, and the Monstrous Creature Terror chart focussing more on HQ, Elites and Heavy Support units. We'll just have to wait and see.