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 Charistoph wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
This makes me happy. I wonder where the LoWs are?

There will probably be ones that are just set for Lords of War. Either that or Imperial Knights just changed Factions!

I approve. I wonder if there's an all-flyer detachment? I'd love to play Codex: Barracudas.

 Verviedi wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
This makes me happy. I wonder where the LoWs are?

There will probably be ones that are just set for Lords of War. Either that or Imperial Knights just changed Factions!

I approve. I wonder if there's an all-flyer detachment? I'd love to play Codex: Barracudas.

Fear the flying dragon mech army!

may gladius and conclave rot in hell where they belong

 G00fySmiley wrote:
may gladius and conclave rot in hell where they belong

Those were Detachments, not Formations.

The new formations are very interesting, a new way for the game.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I really hope some of the new detachments are like some of the old formations. Not in terms of bonuses, but being able to take 4 units of Ogryn and 4 units of Bullgryn. Basically, the freedom of Unbound without people freaking out over the idea of an Unbound army.

I'm sure there are elite detachments that don't require so many troops. A 1st company army, for example.

Those were the three they "showed" us on the live stream, nice to get some detail on them though. Notice the lack of lord of war, solid bet they get their own force org, at least one probably two. The first will be a single lord of war, so you can add them to an existing army. The second will be an all lord of war FoC so you can have things like imperial knight houses. The thought of using the second one for baneblades or wraithknights is a little weird, but hey it's a new edition.

If all existing formations can fit into one of the new FoCs, then there will be at least three were troops aren't compulsory, and instead have fast attack (ravenwing/white scars), elites (deathwing), or heavy support (Imperial Guard tank companies) are the compulsory units. If they have three tiers each, that's 9 more, which added to the two lord of war and three troop style FoCs is all 14.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
may gladius and conclave rot in hell where they belong

Those were Detachments, not Formations.

Conclave was a formation.


And cabal/anything tzeentch did was a much bigger crotch punt.

 Grimgold wrote:

If all existing formations can fit into one of the new FoCs, then there will be at least three were troops aren't compulsory, and instead have fast attack (ravenwing/white scars), elites (deathwing), or heavy support (Imperial Guard tank companies) are the compulsory units. If they have three tiers each, that's 9 more, which added to the two lord of war and three troop style FoCs is all 14.

That would seem to line up.
I imagine they'll not give as many command points as the one's we've seen at the same scale
And the LOW detachment(s) probably won't give any

Doesnt really matter, conclave or gladius as detachment or formation, functionally they did the same thing, and formations were just a type of detachment.

I'm just glad they're gone.

Jbz` wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

If all existing formations can fit into one of the new FoCs, then there will be at least three were troops aren't compulsory, and instead have fast attack (ravenwing/white scars), elites (deathwing), or heavy support (Imperial Guard tank companies) are the compulsory units. If they have three tiers each, that's 9 more, which added to the two lord of war and three troop style FoCs is all 14.

That would seem to line up.
I imagine they'll not give as many command points as the one's we've seen at the same scale
And the LOW detachment(s) probably won't give any

I imagine the Single LoW will not get any command points, but it would be weird to have an entire Imperial knight style army with no command points. They might cap out at 3, but I imagine they will at least get some.

Also, did anyone else notice they confirmed keywords:

The most common restriction is that all units in a single Detachment must share a faction keyword (Tyranid, Blood Angels or Imperium for example).

 Vaktathi wrote:
Doesnt really matter, conclave or gladius as detachment or formation, functionally they did the same thing, and formations were just a type of detachment.

I'm just glad they're gone.

Just noticed it was Kan again lol. Keep going man you'll get one eventually!

As for the formation/detach thing the biggest problem was the huge swings in power and availability. The vestal task force being one of 3 usable detachment by SoB pre FoC was kicking them while they were down.

Core rules will have 14 detachments, I am willing to bet money the army books will include new detachments that will have keyword restrictions such as "Space Marine only" and the word formation will be dead but they will exist again in some new form in the time to come that is 8th.

 3orangewhips wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I really hope some of the new detachments are like some of the old formations. Not in terms of bonuses, but being able to take 4 units of Ogryn and 4 units of Bullgryn. Basically, the freedom of Unbound without people freaking out over the idea of an Unbound army.

I'm sure there are elite detachments that don't require so many troops. A 1st company army, for example.

Hopefully they design the game rules and missions to desire a diverse army, taking a a portion of elements from a codex to function. Rather than favoring to mono built army.

Okay, time for me to fill out that Brigade detachment!

TBH, I like the look of it and the Battalion.

It said "Keyword, Imperium", so I'm going out on a limb and guessing my 5 HQ's can be ABG Vanquisher TC, Saint Celestine, Bran Redmaw, Coteaz, and a Canoness for carrying the no deep-strikers relic. Then my 3 Fast Attacks will be Melta-Dominions, and my Heavy slots will be Exorcists, Basilisks, Wyverns, Manticores, and Leman Russes, the 6 troops will be a mix of mech sisters and footguard, and the Elites will be full of Wolf Guard and Repentia and Vigilators.

Like Castellans, but I can actually use my ABG and Space Wolves in it.

Now, if there's one with a load of Heavy Support slots...

Apple fox wrote:
Hopefully they design the game rules and missions to desire a diverse army, taking a a portion of elements from a codex to function. Rather than favoring to mono built army.

That would be the logical idea, yeah. More diverse armies get Command Points, while more mono-focused ones get the benefit of stacking a particular role.

Best news Ive seen all day. Goodbye free rhinos, goodbye BS4 overwatch, goodbye respawning troops, and hello orks finally getting a decent formation, even if everyone else also has it.

 Talamare wrote:
The 3 example Detachments... SUUUUUUUCK

It's basically... Everyone will be in Battalion unless you manage to squeeze enough in for Brigade.

I don't even see the point of them even existing.
Especially the Patrol Detachment, It's so bad it shouldn't exist.

Cheaper way to bring in allies with patrol than battallion due to less minimums.

One thing I noticed (that I sure others have too) is that Flyers have their own Battlefield role, rather than being FA or Heavy.
I find that to be interesting and may lead to more Flyers being taken since they will no longer compete with those other choices.

Jbz` wrote:
My first thought:
What would prevent someone just having multiple Battalion detachments and getting as many (or more)command points as someone using a Brigade detachment, but without having to bring as many units?

Somebody doesn't want to bring in _9_ troops but would like to bring in some heavy support etc as well?

Sure unit count is less. But 9 troops is preeeetty much to take 3 battallio detachments along with 6 mandatory HQ(vs 3 in brigade)

 Galef wrote:
One thing I noticed (that I sure others have too) is that Flyers have their own Battlefield role, rather than being FA or Heavy.
I find that to be interesting and may lead to more Flyers being taken since they will no longer compete with those other choices.

Or fewer, if there aren't as many flyer slots.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Best news Ive seen all day. Goodbye free rhinos, goodbye BS4 overwatch, goodbye respawning troops, and hello orks finally getting a decent formation, even if everyone else also has it.

We don't know how Dedicated Transports will work, so a little too early to be calling down the free Rhinos. Not to mention, who knows what boondoggles GW will come up with down the road. Usually a year after an edition's launch, they are already breaking their "vision" in half. Remember, that's about how long between 7th's launch and Codex: Space Marines.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Interesting how none of the mentioned detachments include slots for lords of war. I wonder how they will be fielded?

Fortifications too for that matter...

Some of the other detachments? Battallion+super heavy detachment or something for example.

Mildly concerned that all the listed detachments need a HQ, but dropping formations is definitely a good step.

tneva82 wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Interesting how none of the mentioned detachments include slots for lords of war. I wonder how they will be fielded?

Fortifications too for that matter...

Some of the other detachments? Battallion+super heavy detachment or something for example.

Which to me seems more awkward than the current system.

Formations are gone atm.
However, I think that formations will come back. Have a look at AoS.

Next person to break RULE #1 in here is going to...not be happy.

I'm fine with this change. Formations were very unbalancing in 7th. They could have changed and updated them to make them more balanced, or make you pay for them, etc. But oh well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Robin5t wrote:
Mildly concerned that all the listed detachments need a HQ, but dropping formations is definitely a good step.

I wonder what they are going to do with Harlequins? Either give them an HQ, or they will be stuck using a faction-specific detachment that doesn't require an HQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Interesting how none of the mentioned detachments include slots for lords of war. I wonder how they will be fielded?

Fortifications too for that matter...

Some of the other detachments? Battallion+super heavy detachment or something for example.

Super heavies will no longer exist as such. They will just be extra strong units. There are no longer unit types like Gargantuan MC or Superheavy.

Armies that dont have HQ's can very easily be given them, lots of armies have models that serve multiple purposes. Just make Troupe Master with an extra wound or two and another point or two of WS and/or Ld, add on 15 or 20pts, and call it an HQ for instance, and you've solved the issue for Harlequins. Done. Or just make them able to nominate a single Troupe as an HQ with some "veteran" upgrade options or something.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
I wonder what they are going to do with Harlequins? Either give them an HQ, or they will be stuck using a faction-specific detachment that doesn't require an HQ.

Or one of the 14 that doesn't require HQ.

Super heavies will no longer exist as such. They will just be extra strong units. There are no longer unit types like Gargantuan MC or Superheavy.

That's one possibility that they are just heavy support etc. BUT there's this "lords of war" choise. Which means old super heavies likely are lords of war unit types and why they are in own detachments is probably so that you can't spam them AND get command points. For example detachment with 1 lords of war only could exists but gives 0 command points so if you bring several LOW's into the table by taking multiples of that detachment you are hamstringing your command points.

Meanwhile if they were in say HS you could bring 3 of them in battallion and get 3 command points(albeit with other units required).