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Souleater wrote: GW have retconned stuff before. (Which annoys me.)
The Decree Passive might be revoked in the face of that massive new warp rift.
NuMarines may not use the daft progenoid system.
Heck, at the rate long lost folk are making comebacks we might see the two missing legions pitch up....Astral Amazons and the Void Valkyries. :Rollseyes:
If GW can write an interesting story as to why we now have female marines all well and good...but I would rather they do something with Sisters of Battle.
I suspect that instead of that we will see them work on Sisters of Silence instead.
truthfully if I had my way I'd have folded sisters of silence into the sisters of battle codex as an elite choice. they're not the same orginization no, but given their background (both provided secruity on the black ships IIRC) as well as their war gear. it'd be something that could work.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Souleater wrote: GW have retconned stuff before. (Which annoys me.)
The Decree Passive might be revoked in the face of that massive new warp rift.
NuMarines may not use the daft progenoid system.
Heck, at the rate long lost folk are making comebacks we might see the two missing legions pitch up....Astral Amazons and the Void Valkyries. :Rollseyes:
If GW can write an interesting story as to why we now have female marines all well and good...but I would rather they do something with Sisters of Battle.
I suspect that instead of that we will see them work on Sisters of Silence instead.
truthfully if I had my way I'd have folded sisters of silence into the sisters of battle codex as an elite choice. they're not the same orginization no, but given their background (both provided secruity on the black ships IIRC) as well as their war gear. it'd be something that could work.
Sisters of Silence and Custodes being their own faction/codex is the most absurd thing out there. They should be rolled in Adeptus Astartes/Sisters of Battle codex, or into a "Agents of the Empire" type of thing. I prefer the first option.
GW tried to hard to give them different units types, but no, Sisters of Silence are just Sisters of Silence, it doesn't matter if they have swords, flamers or bolters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/14 21:05:36
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Souleater wrote: GW have retconned stuff before. (Which annoys me.)
The Decree Passive might be revoked in the face of that massive new warp rift.
NuMarines may not use the daft progenoid system.
Heck, at the rate long lost folk are making comebacks we might see the two missing legions pitch up....Astral Amazons and the Void Valkyries. :Rollseyes:
If GW can write an interesting story as to why we now have female marines all well and good...but I would rather they do something with Sisters of Battle.
I suspect that instead of that we will see them work on Sisters of Silence instead.
truthfully if I had my way I'd have folded sisters of silence into the sisters of battle codex as an elite choice. they're not the same orginization no, but given their background (both provided secruity on the black ships IIRC) as well as their war gear. it'd be something that could work.
Sisters of Battle had nothing to do with the Black Ships.
Space Marines have the birth sex of men, yes. However, they are then chemically castrated. Their birth sex means nothing when you're pumped full of Astartes implants and hormones.
Apparently yes, they develop all the phenotypes associated with humen males. Looking at an image of a Space Marine (alone), everybody would tell you they are muscular humen males. Only in comparison with normal humen would their transhumen natue be revealed due to their size, yet their appearence would still mark them as males much like when you see male eldar, giant, gnome, etc. you call them men and not agender.
So, male pronouns define them as male? How about I give male pronouns to a car? To a toaster? Is that toaster male? Is that car male? How about a snail? Snails are hermaphroditic - they have no male/female.
Amongst other yes, people who are male use male pronouns, people who are female uses female pronouns. Toasters, snails and cares use the gender neutral pronoun of ''it''. Transexual generaly uses the pronoun of the sex they identify to or use the gender pronouns ''they'' (or push for the adoption of a new one to describe them). Space Marine refer to themselves as males.
Sexual identity: So, you say if it looks like something, then it is that sex? So, a sculpture of a woman is an actual woman, and has a sex?
At this point your starting to be obtuse in an effort to not lose a point. A sculpture of a person is a representation of that said person. What it represent can have a sex. The sculpture is just a medium. While looking at the drawings of Space Marines you said they were muscular? Are drawings full of muscles? absolutly not, thet represent people with muscle. Yes, you can use a medium to gain information about someone appearence, which include their sex.
How about transsexuals? Some can quite easily look like the opposite gender. However, just because they look like X gender, they ARE X gender?
If they don't tell you otherwise, that's exactly what happens. When you encounter an unknown man you will refer to him as a man even if there is a possibility he might be a, pre-operation, transexual who is, in fact, a women. If you don't know anything about a person perception of his/her sexual identity, you will judge them based on their apperence and expect them to not suffer from things like gender dysphoria because they are very rare.
To clarify, let's take a robot, or statue. I give male pronouns to it, and it looks like a male. It's birth gender means nothing, either because it has none, or because it has been removed/altered. Is that statue/robot a man?
That statue/robot would represent a men. We have are frequetly of calling anthropomorphic robots malebots or fembots depending on the sex they are representing. Bender in Futurama is a malebot and he states it very clearly. In the same show, he dates fembots. Yes, they have been sexed by their creator. Their sex serves only a social function in a society where men and women are expected to look and behave in different ways, not a reproductive function.
But only Space Marines in the entire 40k universe should be masculine?
Considering that I have denied such a thing at least five times and very clearly I find it odd to have to repeat it again. No, Space Marines aren't the only masculine army. in fact most of the stuff in 40K is macho and masculine as hell. Space Marines are simply the most macho and masculine thing in the entire 40K universe.
They percieve themselves with male pronouns. That doesn't make them men. It makes them agender, who use masculine pronouns.
They are transhuman, we are told that as an outright fact in the canon.
Being trasnhuman from a monogender group doesn't prevent them from having a gender. Space Marine still relate to humanity. The only thing transhuman about Space Marines is their capacity. Their appearance is almost perfectly identical to human. Most abhuman and mutants, who are also humans are way more freeky than them. Their behavior completly identical to member of the culture they grew up in when they were kids at a few exceptions.
Again - Loken can appreciate the beauty of Little Horus, Horus and Tarvitz, but at the same time we also see Space Marines appreciate the beauty of war, their wargear, destruction, etc etc. Is a bolter a symbol of masculine beauty?
According to Freud, yes. Bolters would be a symbol of masculinity and strongly phallic. Admiration of the beauty of such object by a man would be expressing a subconcsious homoerotic desire and attraction which is suposed to be rather common. I personnaly don't place to much trust in Freud theories on human sexuality, but he would say yes.
Personnaly, I would say that admiring the beauty of a weapon and that of a person aren't an apt comparison making your argument rest on a false equivalence.
Again, that isn't confirmation. Speculation, yes, in universe speculation even better. But it's not confirmation, which is what I asked for.
Torgaddon's lament with that can also be attributed with brotherhood and friendship - not necessarily love.
If I see canon love, actually confirmed, I'll accept your point.
You'll never have it. The point is that it must remain subbtle and insinuated. If you state it outright, the drama unfolds and everybody loses interest about it. If its revealed outright, its no longer homoerotic, its simply becomes homosexual.
So, hints.
In which way do they dress masculinely? Armour? FeMarines would wear the same armour most likely. Their robes outside of armour? Females wear robes too.
That sort of robes and togas worn by Space Marines are men robes and togas. Women wear pants and men wear skirts, but you and I can make the difference between men and women pants or skirts. The style isn't the same.
Gender re-assignment? In what way? They're already chemically castrated, why would they need to have an artificial vagina implanted? They're not even biologically male per say - only that they were once male, and are now completely castrated. If anything, they are agender, leaving us with (in some views) Male, Female and Astartes, as a gender to itself.
After all, they are PostHuman.
That's the point, even if a Space Marines was to suffer from gender dysphoria before is induction in the Chapter, he would not be cured by chemical castration. Being castrated or sterile doesn't change your gender. My ex-girlfirend was sterile after having a massive overian infection that forced her to have both ovaries removed when she was 14. She no longuer has menses, will never have children and has a disturbed sexual hormonal production and is still very much a women. Space Marines are transhumen, but not transgender.
that's great! But then we should have slim Astartes and bulky Astartes - not bulky men and slim girls. Gender should be a non-issue with this.
I totally agree with that. The only reason for it otherwise would be if you want Space Marine women to look very different than Space Marine men which you can provided you give an explanation for it and since its a fictionnal thing, its not really hard to come up with many reasons.
Exactly. So if your whole reason for wanting FeMarines is "I want body diversity", you've just admitted that you don't need women for it.
No, I don't need women to have body diversity, bit I need women if I want MORE body diversity. You just admitted that women and men don't look alike even when they have the same capacities, thus adding women provide MORE body diversity. Do you have body diersity without it, sure, but less of course.
And again, any strong women you know are still not Astartes. Given what we know the procedure does to young boys, why would it make young girls any different physically?
Because we want them to look different because that's more interesting for the public who consume Space Marines product.
Males don't look like male bodybuilders because they're male. They look like that because of the construction process of a Space Marine. The sheer amount of drugs and hormones they pump in happens to create that image, only scaled massively upwards.
Women would look the same, because it's not a case of Male-->Male Bodybuilder/Female-->Female Bodybuilder. It's a case of Male-->Astartes physique/Female-->Astartes physique.
What does your bring to the hobby? As you said, the aesthetic differences such as slimness should exist regardless of gender. So what else is there?
How can yours be consistent? I'm saying "they'd look the same". You're saying "they'd look different". How does that promote consistency?
Again, the process isn't proportionate. Let me put it into numbers. 1 is Female. 2 is Male. 6 is Astartes.
In order for a Male to be turned into a Space Marine, it is either multiplied by 3, or 4 is added. You believe that the implantation process is akin to multiplication, so a male is multiplied by three. However, if a female is multiplied by three, they are inferior to a Male Astartes.
I believe it is more akin to an automatic transformation. I believe that 6 is the limit, but the initial recruit is augmented by whatever number needed to reach that limit. Therefore, a male would need 4, but a female would need 5. However, the creation process allows for that, because it makes Astartes all generally equal, up to the limit of the hypothetical 6.
TL;DR - You believe that the implantation process is a multiplying factor. I believe it levels all applicants out to a set value.
We don't know that, you believe that. Any excuse for Space Marine appearence can be made. We never had to question the appearence of Space Marines women since there are none, we can make them look however we want now and then explain later why they look like so. Its a completly fictional process. The greater consistency is derived from art consistency. Space Marine men look like men, Space Marine women look like women. The powers they have is invisible at the nacked eye.
I bring very little to the hobby by making New Space Marine women that look like women. What do you bring to the hobby by making New Space Marine women look just like men? In my opinion, nothing. A little bit is better than nothing thus my vision has more value since it brings more to the hobby.
Yes, but we can take what we do know about the process, and assume that, despite all different physiques of the applicant men, they all turn out roughly the same, why would women (if they could survive) look any different?
Because it would be more interesting and there is no reason not to be MORE interesting.
Sisters of Battle are also rarer than Space Marines. The last estimate of their total force was around 50K, far from 1000000.
There are 15000 Sisters from the Order of the Martyred Lady in the Calixis Sector ALONE.
I doubt that over 25% of all Sisters are located in one single Sector.
You just came to speed with a Canon conflict that's well known by SoB fans. Most chose to disregard Fantasy Flight material in that specific situation.
Why are Guardsmen able to be macho and Sisters not? How about Assassins? Sisters of Silence? Is it just all-women armies that can't be macho for you?
An army to be macho must present macho virtues at its core. It needs to be the norm of its culture not the exception. Guards are macho culture since they are equivalent to any modern millitary, they most macho thing on Earth right now (with possible exception of Wrestling, I'm not sure). Sisters of Battle aren't macho because its most macho element are minor. Feminine elements (faith, obediance (to a male figure of course). martyrdom, penence, kindness, well only to loyalists of course, etc.) are central to the identity of the army. Callidus are very feminine (they are frequently used has erotic asssassins), but not Eversor, Cullexus and Vindicare are pretty gender neutral. Sister of Silence are pretty neutral when you think about it. I don't know enough about them though to have a strong opinion on it.
So, in the same vein, do you believe that Male Sisters should be a thing? After all, if you don't believe they should be a thing, then you can just say that your Sororitas don't have any males.
I have made male Sisters of Battle. Once 8th drops, I will integrate them in expension in my SoB fandex. They are called the Bortherhood of Thor. They are a non macho male subfaction.
Canon exists because of rules in the setting. If you ignore all the setting rules and limits of 40k, what makes it unique? If we ignore setting rules, what stops a Star Wars Death Star coming in and blowing up Terra? What stops the Covenant glassing Macragge? How about Guardsmen Conscripts easily killing Space Marine Chapter Masters in close combat?
If you want to ignore all the rules of the setting, that's up to you. However, it seems that a lot of people want to keep canon. Your minority wants to change the canon - that's not what the majority wants. If you change the canon to allow for normal FeMarines, then that's counter to the majority wishes.
And again - what aesthetic difference would Females bring to the Space Marines? The slim body type is also present in males, as you say, so what else is there?
That's a slippery slope argument. Ignoring some elements of the Canon doesn't mean we elliminate all Canon or that it gives opportunity to destroy all Canon. One must provide reason to change a part of the canon. The larger the change is the better the reason need to be. This is a very small change and since its an update due to the rise of the New Space Marines (retconning the past was never in question in this thread). Of course male and female bodies, no matter their style are different, thus if we make Space Marine women look different than Space Marine men (and we totally can if we want to), they bring a more aethetic diversity than purely men or men-looking Space Marine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/15 01:17:27
Vulkan Fran'cis wrote: Exaclty why not have Marines as the 'All-male army' then have Sisters as the'All-Female' army
Because it should be Dark Angels. Dark Angels should be the all-male army, and every other army should be mixed.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Most people do agree that Blood angels and Dark Angels could be rolled into the Vanilla codex and not much of value would be lost.
They can be rolled into vanilla and still have fluff that says they are the all-male chapter.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I don't understand. Why is it acceptable to ignore Space Marine fluff to have female Marines, but not okay to ignore Sisters fluff to have male Sororitas?
There's actually a pretty solid reason in the lore why the Ecclesiarchy doesn't have a fighting force of male warriors at its disposal. The Age of Apostasy is one of the most important events in the Imperium's history, second only to the Horus Heresy, and the Decree Passive (barring the Ecclesiarchy from controlling "men under arms") was a direct result. It's grounded in the narrative. Whereas, the reason there aren't female Space Marines amounts to "Just because".
And even that was a case of "obeying the letter of the law, but ignoring the spirit of the law". The same goes with all-male or mixed fighting forces the Ecclesiarchy uses along with the Sororitas, such as the Crusader Orders and Frateris Militia.
As for the topic if the thread......
I'm of the school of thought that female Astartes should be a big no-no for lore reasons, while the Sororitas should get more love and support from Games Workshop. As far as the Guard goes, I would have no problem with female options as long as a given Guard force has females serving in the lore. But that's just my opinion.
I guess I don't understand why there is such a fuss over this.
If someone wants overly female appearing "Space Marines"...run Sisters of Battle or kit-bash your own and just say they're Space Marines. I don't think the fluff/lore makes any point of supporting that, but who cares - do your own thing.
If someone wants not overly female appearing Space Marines...run Space Marines and toss on some female heads (available from heaps of 3rd party supplies). You don't need boob armour to be female...hell if your'e wearing a helmet you can be female. As mentioned, the bulked up, super-juiced/bio-enhanced nature of a normal Space Marine means that women would be barely distinguishable in final form from male marines. Even less so in armour.
I don't think there is a business/sales need for the tiny minority of people who would be crying out for female Space Marines.
I've seen a lot of "I'd like them to add females to Guard/Admech/etc but only if they do it with class" and I'd like a clarification if "with class" only means no boob-plate. From what I've seen in other threads, it's rather hard to make an explicitly female sculpt in 28mm without the boob-plate indicator. What if GW made female sculpts but they had boob-plate? Would there be outrage or would you be ok with your female models or somewhere in the middle of those two?
(Personally, Guard needs a new poster child regiment since Cadia got Alderaan'd and it doesn't make any sense for Admech to make female parts since their whole schtick is to be less human.)
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
Boob plate is an acceptable result provided the rest of the model is dressed sensibly. It's when you get into the chainmail bikini stuff that it goes pear shaped.
Vulkan Fran'cis wrote: Exaclty why not have Marines as the 'All-male army' then have Sisters as the'All-Female' army
Because it should be Dark Angels. Dark Angels should be the all-male army, and every other army should be mixed.
Most people do agree that Blood angels and Dark Angels could be rolled into the Vanilla codex and not much of value would be lost.
Mildly off topic though.
No please, I love my Deathwing Knights and special chaplains
Your Special Chaplain is basically a Chaplain with Captain stats. Pretty sure that's something most people want access to.
I have never understood people that want LESS variation. Yeah, I know, as a Tau player is very easy to vitrol to the Space Marines "grrr, why they have 5 codexs to slighly different flavours of the same armies but my Orks can't have different rules for their Clans!", but... making the Space Marines player losing variation isn't gonna give your armies more of it.
People should emphatize more with others. I hate the "poster childs" as any other, but personally I want more variation to OTHER armies, not less to them.
Crimson Devil wrote: Boob plate is an acceptable result provided the rest of the model is dressed sensibly. It's when you get into the chainmail bikini stuff that it goes pear shaped.
QFT
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/15 02:17:33
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Vulkan Fran'cis wrote: Exaclty why not have Marines as the 'All-male army' then have Sisters as the'All-Female' army
Because it should be Dark Angels. Dark Angels should be the all-male army, and every other army should be mixed.
Most people do agree that Blood angels and Dark Angels could be rolled into the Vanilla codex and not much of value would be lost.
Mildly off topic though.
No please, I love my Deathwing Knights and special chaplains
Your Special Chaplain is basically a Chaplain with Captain stats. Pretty sure that's something most people want access to.
I have never understood people that want LESS variation. Yeah, I know, as a Tau player is very easy to vitrol to the Space Marines "grrr, why they have 5 codexs to slighly different flavours of the same armies but my Orks can't have different rules for their Clans!", but... making the Space Marines player losing variation isn't gonna give your armies more of it.
People should emphatize more with others. I hate the "poster childs" as any other, but personally I want more variation to OTHER armies, not less to them.
Crimson Devil wrote: Boob plate is an acceptable result provided the rest of the model is dressed sensibly. It's when you get into the chainmail bikini stuff that it goes pear shaped.
QFT
I'm telling you that as a Space Marine player.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Tactical_Spam wrote: I've seen a lot of "I'd like them to add females to Guard/Admech/etc but only if they do it with class" and I'd like a clarification if "with class" only means no boob-plate. From what I've seen in other threads, it's rather hard to make an explicitly female sculpt in 28mm without the boob-plate indicator. What if GW made female sculpts but they had boob-plate? Would there be outrage or would you be ok with your female models or somewhere in the middle of those two?
(Personally, Guard needs a new poster child regiment since Cadia got Alderaan'd and it doesn't make any sense for Admech to make female parts since their whole schtick is to be less human.)
Boobplates are a bit useless, you can make an armor more feminine without it anyway simply by making the male version of the armor more viril (large shoulder, barrel chest, large feet, legs standing appart, small head, etc.). If you were to take a current Space Marine armor and add boobplates on top of it, I would say no. The chest would look hillariously to large and the overall design would lose its touch. The overall result would be pretty ugly. On the other side, the SoB armor, while still having the infamous boobplate, is still a rather nice armor and so is the Sister of Silence one. Ironicly, I prefer both those armor to that of the Space Marines (I think they look stupid with feets larger than their head). They idea is not to have a too tacky end result.
Vulkan Fran'cis wrote: Exaclty why not have Marines as the 'All-male army' then have Sisters as the'All-Female' army
Because it should be Dark Angels. Dark Angels should be the all-male army, and every other army should be mixed.
Most people do agree that Blood angels and Dark Angels could be rolled into the Vanilla codex and not much of value would be lost.
Mildly off topic though.
No please, I love my Deathwing Knights and special chaplains
Your Special Chaplain is basically a Chaplain with Captain stats. Pretty sure that's something most people want access to.
I have never understood people that want LESS variation. Yeah, I know, as a Tau player is very easy to vitrol to the Space Marines "grrr, why they have 5 codexs to slighly different flavours of the same armies but my Orks can't have different rules for their Clans!", but... making the Space Marines player losing variation isn't gonna give your armies more of it.
People should emphatize more with others. I hate the "poster childs" as any other, but personally I want more variation to OTHER armies, not less to them.
Crimson Devil wrote: Boob plate is an acceptable result provided the rest of the model is dressed sensibly. It's when you get into the chainmail bikini stuff that it goes pear shaped.
QFT
I'm telling you that as a Space Marine player.
I have 0 problems with people having access to the rules of other chapters, but I really like the special units that chapters receive, not for the rules but for the models. I know, I know, wulfen are blergh, but the Sanguinar Guard for example, the DeathWing Knights, the Interrogator-Chaplain, to me are all beautiful models that, if every marine chapter was exactly the same but with different colour and some rules, probably never existed.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Well. Let's look at it from different point of view.
This is Briggette Bigbossom, a lady that has joined the ranks of Skitarii forces. Does she look any different from other Vanguards? No. Does anybody care that was female? No.
She looks exactly the same as others, because she was rebuilt to serve a certain purpose. Now it is genderless killing machine, with no other meaning of existence.
Spoiler:
Now look at Wendy Widehips. She was also born as female and then got recruited into Space Marine chapter. Does she look any different from other marines? No. Does anybody care she is female? No. She looks exactly the same as others, because she was rebuilt to serve a certain purpose. Now she is genderless killing machine, with no other meaning of existence and it would also only cause misundertandings as her fellow battle-brothers wouldn't know how to call each other, because there is a battle-sister somewhere among them. Not mentioning that some may be confused by it, becuase the don't see any Adepta Sororitas around.
Spoiler:
Now let's face it. What the point of changing the 30 years old and well justified fluff for having female space marines, when they would all look and act identicaly to male marines? What's the point of making a difference in it?
- Is it because of some moral greater good of equality? Let me tell you something. Men and women aren't equal. Not in biological point of view. We are different and both sexes have characteristics and abilities in which they are better than the other, and vice versa. (I'm not going to write down all the differences, sane person would have little problem searching for them.) And if you want to pursue the greater good, go play Tau. They have females. (which are mostly clad in armour so person who looks at them for the first time cannot tell that they are female.)
- Or is it because random neckbeard wants to claim: "I have a all female space marine chapter (which looks the same as any other marines) and it's canon." while his opponent says: "Yeah, whatever..."
- Or is it because feminists want to enforce their agenda of females being biologically equal or superior to males in all ways? (which is again, completely delusional and it smells after feminazism)
Thus having males as the strongest warriors known to humanity in the 40k is extremely evil and needs to be torn down?
- Or is it because some people need to complain about things, exactly like they need to breathe for living?
What's the point of having female space marines, while men are actually better suited for physical performance and combat in general? In course through history, men were the hunters, the fighters, the conquerors. (Well, sometimes women fought too, but that's more cultural thing, or some from of despair (Looking at you, Soviet Union)) Do you thing it was because somebody once told "All males shall be the hunters!" just because?
Have you ever heard people complaining that there are no female Necrons? No female Orks? No female Tyranids? And what do they have in common? They are all genderless, bioengineered killing machines with no other meaning of existance, exactly like Skitarii or Space Marines are.
I can now create a thread where I will complain about Orks not having females (Please, do not post that picture again) and what answer will I get? "Orks are fungus and they do not reproduce sexually blah blah blah." We all know what's going on. And this thread (and all other complaining about lack of lady marines) is exactly the same thing. "The transformation works only on male chromosomes blah blah blah..." You are given a canonical statement why it is like it is. You can dislike it, you can find your way around it, but why complain about it again and again, specially when you know it will (most probably) not change.
Have you ever heard real people complaining that females cannot serve in military Special Forces? I have not. So why they are complaining about the exact same thing in fictional universe?
Bro tip If you had not spent the time complaining about SM lacking female models, you would have nice female SM army converted and justified by now . If you want to have female space marines, yeah, go for it. Nothing holds you back. Nothing, really. I belive you can justify why it works on ladies too, there is just no need to constantly complain about it.
Bro tip 2 If you find something lacking, try to find the way around it. Then try to find an alternative. And if both of the previous fail, then complain. Complain somewhere, where your words can be heard by somebody who has any form of power over the things thet you found lacking.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/15 07:51:15
Isn't the imperium a dictatorship based on religious fanatism? It seems very realistic that women are only allowed to fight as sisters of battles then.
Dark eldar are free people, raiders and pirates, don't make comparisons between those factions.
Female tau should be considered more, instead.
It's also not convenient for GW to update one of their kits with new parts that only serve an aesthetic role, while the majority of players don't care about them or probably don't even want them.
If you really want female marines sculpt some boobs with green stuff and add long hair on SM heads without helmets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/15 11:03:01
Galas wrote: I have never understood people that want LESS variation. […]
People should emphatize more with others. I hate the "poster childs" as any other, but personally I want more variation to OTHER armies, not less to them.
Well, you have people that would be angry if Space Marines kits included a few optional female heads so yeah apparently some people want less variation even if it doesn't remove anything for them…
Hawky wrote: (which is again, completely delusional and it smells after feminazism)
You wrote feminazism so your argument is invalid.
Blackie wrote: Isn't the imperium a dictatorship based on religious fanatism?
Also one that had female members at the highest ranks (Inquisitors and, well, High Lords of Terra) since at least second edition. Oh I forgot to mention, first edition had female space marines.
They also have assassins that are female and yet way better, stronger, faster than Space Marines.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Blackie wrote: Isn't the imperium a dictatorship based on religious fanatism?
Also one that had female members at the highest ranks (Inquisitors and, well, High Lords of Terra) since at least second edition. Oh I forgot to mention, first edition had female space marines.
They also have assassins that are female and yet way better, stronger, faster than Space Marines.
High lord of terra and Inquisitors are not Astartes. What's the point of the argument?
Callidus assassin, also not a Space Marine. What's the point of the argument again?
Female Space marine from the 2nd ed... Well...
Spoiler:
Just change to question to "Can females become Space Marines?"
That seems pretty clear to me. Your argument is invalid.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
I am glad I was of help. I am sure this constructive criticism will help you build better arguments in the future .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
That seems pretty clear to me. Your argument is invalid.
A poor choice of expression perhaps but I think his point is valid - female marines certainly shouldn't be added for the furtherance of some kind of sociocultural agenda. You could say "that obviously isn't the reason" but it's not as though the culture wars don't pervade most aspects of popular culture already - and irrespective of one's political views I would really prefer not to see 40k get dragged into it.
That seems pretty clear to me. Your argument is invalid.
A poor choice of expression perhaps but I think his point is valid - female marines certainly shouldn't be added for the furtherance of some kind of sociocultural agenda. You could say "that obviously isn't the reason" but it's not as though the culture wars don't pervade most aspects of popular culture already - and irrespective of one's political views I would really prefer not to see 40k get dragged into it.
It makes sense now. Thank you. I don't think it is the reason, like you said, but since an article about sexism in 40k that has been released some time ago, I presumed that 40k community isn't completely clear of such things, so I added it as a possibility.
bag!"
Ostrakan Skitarii Legions, 
Order of the Silver Hand
You are helpful.
.
