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You’ll also be happy to see multiple playstyles available to you. From infantry (and you all know I love my “Footdar” army!) to mechanised, to psyker heavy to totally psyker absent. You won’t feel shoehorned into a single build style but can exercise your creativity and field the army you desire.

They really are raising expectations here. I hope 8th ed can hold up to them.

Since Initiative is a thing of the past, and WS only applies to you (not your opponent hitting you), some Eldar have to have rules that bypass the norm. Banshees hitting first is very fluffy.....that's what the mask is for. They are mostly unarmoured and fragile.....they need speed and shock to kill their enemies, and the rule highlights that. Otherwise, you would need to drop the points substantially in comparison to a basic marine.
I also wonder how Harlequins will stack up, god knows they are as fragile as hell, but they had better be demons in assault as they should be.

I don't want OP Eldar, I want specialized, elite Eldar. You pay the points for being really good, but if you don't use them well, you get penalized for it. Banshees getting caught in open, etc.

 bullyboy wrote:
Since Initiative is a thing of the past, and WS only applies to you (not your opponent hitting you), some Eldar have to have rules that bypass the norm. Banshees hitting first is very fluffy.....that's what the mask is for. They are mostly unarmoured and fragile.....they need speed and shock to kill their enemies, and the rule highlights that. Otherwise, you would need to drop the points substantially in comparison to a basic marine.
I also wonder how Harlequins will stack up, god knows they are as fragile as hell, but they had better be demons in assault as they should be.

I don't want OP Eldar, I want specialized, elite Eldar. You pay the points for being really good, but if you don't use them well, you get penalized for it. Banshees getting caught in open, etc.

Yep exactly.
I am looking forwad to play an Aspect Warrior heavy army lead by an Avatar

nordsturmking wrote:

You’ll also be happy to see multiple playstyles available to you. From infantry (and you all know I love my “Footdar” army!) to mechanised, to psyker heavy to totally psyker absent. You won’t feel shoehorned into a single build style but can exercise your creativity and field the army you desire.

They really are raising expectations here. I hope 8th ed can hold up to them.

Reece is a great guy but now that he's been doing these news things I'm starting to feel wary.

He sounds like a salesman, and salesmen always exaggerate.

Yeah on I think 9th age was it Pablo? The guy with the fuzzy hair he said Reece tends to get too excited and overestimate tons of things.

The two of them greatly disagree on Kharadron Overlords tournament viability. Reece thinks they will be super powerful part of the main meta of factions and many others think they will be good but are over costed for a lot of stuff.

He also thought Genestealer cults would be super powerful. Also Deathwatch.

Yeah I don't take anything this guys says is powerful anymore seriously. He is a nice guy, but he is not very good at looking at things unbiased and the greater whole of the meta. I think only the most obviously bad of bad things do I ever recall him saying would not be viable. I think it was one of the chaos legion rules they got and like one other thing, but mostly his track record is 77% saying stuff will be good and super OP. He was right about Magnus being OP, but hey a broken clock is right twice a day.

 oldzoggy wrote:
It is actually quite informative it tells the players that they can most likely build the army they really want to build without having to fear that it doesn't work.

Based on...what? Marketing speech? GW has been claiming that for years.

They don't give any reasons why things work. Striking scorpions are great...why? They are killy? Lack of killiness has never been their problem.

Howling bansheesh? Not striking first hasn't been their problem. Okay so at least they are fast but again speedyness hasn't been their biggest problem either.

Howling Banshees are swift and athletic troops who are most deadly in hand-to-hand fighting. Their banshee masks contain psychosonic amplifiers that magnify their keening battle screams into mind-destroying shockwaves. While their foes lie crippled and paralysed, the Banshees lay into them with precision and efficiency, their power swords cutting a blazing arc through the air around them as they sever heads from necks and limbs from torsos.

Sounds familiar...

Wish GW didn't just hype strenght of cc weapons all the time in their h2h rocks hype. Weak attacks has never been problem. Now maybe if 7th ed scorpions had STR weapons they might have been super h2h but frankly even that would be ignored by most armies...

This article said "Guys, I want to assure you of two things. One, we know about Warp Spiders, Scatterbikes, and Wraithknights. Two, we're not dumb enough to fix them by stomping the entire Eldar codex flat, so eldar players can chill."

Just like the Guard and Chaos one said "Guys, we know Guard and Chaos are bad. We're working on it. Here's a few things we specifically know are bad, so you know they're on the radar."

Literally the biggest news we've had out of these faction articles is the fact that Rough Riders will still exist. I had a bit of a chuckle seeing their name as the only non-hyperlink on the page...

 bullyboy wrote:
Since Initiative is a thing of the past, and WS only applies to you (not your opponent hitting you), some Eldar have to have rules that bypass the norm. Banshees hitting first is very fluffy.....that's what the mask is for. They are mostly unarmoured and fragile.....they need speed and shock to kill their enemies, and the rule highlights that. Otherwise, you would need to drop the points substantially in comparison to a basic marine.
I also wonder how Harlequins will stack up, god knows they are as fragile as hell, but they had better be demons in assault as they should be.

I don't want OP Eldar, I want specialized, elite Eldar. You pay the points for being really good, but if you don't use them well, you get penalized for it. Banshees getting caught in open, etc.

Bashees are not unarmoured - they have a 4+ save, unarmoured - you are thinking about Wyches....Hopefully now those with decades of experience in the arena are better at hitting than say an Eldar Guardian

Oh man, the rules aren't even out yet and people are crying OP for Eldar. Looks like finding a game in 8th with my Biel Tan won't get any easier, lol.

Do people not think that Space Marines will get any special rules? They literally worded it that Guilliman still should have the upper hand on the Avatar.

I'm just glad with wave serpents being assault vehicles that melee eldar units will actually be plausible. I love Striking Scorpions.

Gw has a long history of making eldar way too effective for their cost.

I didn't see it mentioned, but the Rubric Marine shows Force Swords as AP -3. If that stays true for Power Swords, combined with Str3 not being so crappy in 8th, Banshees are looking really good.

I may have to pick up a box of DE Wyches to convert (cuz I'm not doin finecast)

 Galef wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned, but the Rubric Marine shows Force Swords as AP -3. If that stays true for Power Swords, combined with Str3 not being so crappy in 8th, Banshees are looking really good.

I may have to pick up a box of DE Wyches to convert (cuz I'm not doin finecast)

So, force swords > power swords. My *guess* is that the force psychic power is gone, and they're representing the extra potency with a d3. I am like 90% on this one.

 Marmatag wrote:

So, force swords > power swords. My *guess* is that the force psychic power is gone, and they're representing the extra potency with a d3. I am like 90% on this one.

I agree. I think "Force" is no longer a psychic power, but Force weapons will be exactly like their Power weapon equivalents, but be damage D3
This is great news for GKs. I'm really curious what Witchblades will do.

Even at 1 damage, having power swords that are S3 AP-3 counts as "not tea bag", in my book. Banshees may actually be able to get stuff done. Good, I want them to be good again.

Give me a reason to use the units that have been languishing. Give me a reason not to feel like a complete jackwagon when I pull out a unit of Warp Spiders, and not to feel like a complete dufus when I pull out a Fire Prism or a Wraithlord.

jade_angel wrote:
Even at 1 damage, having power swords that are S3 AP-3 counts as "not tea bag", in my book. Banshees may actually be able to get stuff done. Good, I want them to be good again.

Give me a reason to use the units that have been languishing. Give me a reason not to feel like a complete jackwagon when I pull out a unit of Warp Spiders, and not to feel like a complete dufus when I pull out a Fire Prism or a Wraithlord.

Hopefully banshees have something that makes them actually reach the combat then. Better weapons good but if you don\t make into combat having S20 weapon with very good AP and 2d6 damage isn\t much of a help.

That transport thing would be nice to know...That comes and biggest thing left to be seen is probably command points. But you could play smallish open style game with decent idea how it plays in practice.

 Galef wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

So, force swords > power swords. My *guess* is that the force psychic power is gone, and they're representing the extra potency with a d3. I am like 90% on this one.

I agree. I think "Force" is no longer a psychic power, but Force weapons will be exactly like their Power weapon equivalents, but be damage D3
This is great news for GKs. I'm really curious what Witchblades will do.

I am not the most experienced GK player, but being able to get instant death on high toughness models was pretty hot.

What GK will get, though, is a solid chance to strip wounds off of tanks and other vehicles.

If Nemesis Daemon Hammer is D6 wounds, that means each hit is a Lasgun, and each GK terminator with a Daemon Hammer will be swinging 3 times on the charge.

Just further reinforcing this is the melee edition, not the shooting edition.

 Marmatag wrote:
If Nemesis Daemon Hammer is D6 wounds, that means each hit is a Lasgun, and each GK terminator with a Daemon Hammer will be swinging 3 times on the charge.

Just further reinforcing this is the melee edition, not the shooting edition.

Of course lack of killing power has never been h2h\s problem...You could most h2h units in 7th ed STR>D weapons and they would still suck. Problem was always getting to combat which is why worthwhile units were generally stuff that moved at bike speed or better or was deathstar that was ridiculously invulnerable with stuff like rerollable 2+ saves, rerollable invulnerable saves, FNP's and invisibility or combo like that.

There are ultimately two possibilities:

Either Eldar will either be average or below average...

...or I will happily spend another edition refusing to play against people who play Eldar armies.

Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

 Galas wrote:
Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

 Traditio wrote:
There are ultimately two possibilities:

Either Eldar will either be average or below average...

...or I will happily spend another edition refusing to play against people who play Eldar armies.

Or a third possibility: Eldar are just as good in 8th as they are in 7th and you start having discussions with Eldar players to bring a balanced list rather than spam the same 3-4 power units.

In a game built for fun, you are supposed to be able to have those mature conversations with your opponent.
If the Eldar player refuses to slightly change up his list, he is TFG. But all out refusing to play them without even giving them the chance to play makes YOU TFG.

At any rate, I would be glad to see bikes, spiders and wraith stuff get nerfed. I am tired of the stigma. I didn't earn it, nor do I have to put up with it. I play bikes for fun and have never run all Scatterbikes in casual play, nor do even own more than 1 Spider unit.
in my local area I never once had issues getting games. This because I have built a reputation for being fun to play against and am always willing to discuss my list and make recommended changes prior to a game.

-

 oldzoggy wrote:
It is actually quite informative it tells the players that they can most likely build the army they really want to build without having to fear that it doesn't work.

GW regularly makes that claim. While it may be true on paper, different army builds are rarely of equal table-top viability.

tneva82 wrote:
Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

No, this remains an unsubstantiated rumour. Given how shooting has been buffed, I hope it is true as otherwise we might as well call 8th edition gun-hammer.

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

I swear I had read it in some Warhammer Community post. But I can't find it now, so, just forget it. I suppose someone has mentioned that and I just have assumed it was official.

 Galas wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Charging out of every transport and a improved movement value for Banshee will help them to reach meele, I think.

Have we even got confirmation you can charge out_ And if yes how it works and what if any penalties it has_

I swear I had read it in some Warhammer Community post. But I can't find it now, so, just forget it. I suppose someone has mentioned that and I just have assumed it was official.

Ok well I think it\s fairly likely but there\s still several ways that could be done that affect how good it actually is. Which is why I hope they put out that teaser soon. I think they are holding that out just to make us twitch some more because they know how anticipiated that info is!

Galef wrote:Or a third possibility: Eldar are just as good in 8th as they are in 7th and you start having discussions with Eldar players to bring a balanced list rather than spam the same 3-4 power units.

In a game built for fun, you are supposed to be able to have those mature conversations with your opponent.

I think that this will ultimately be what determines whether or not 8th lives up to expectations.

"Mature conversations" about army building shouldn't have to occur.

GW has told us that they are doing extensive play-testing to ensure balance.

If they were successful, then I should be able to show up with my army, my opponent should be able to show up with his, and, assuming equal skill level, each of us should have a decent chance at winning.

I am inclined to think that this will happen, given that they are getting lots of input from TOs.

On the other hand: the simple fact is that Eldar have pretty much always been completely OP.

And it's not just the main game. From what I understand, the Dawn of War video games may as well be called "Dawn of Eldar."

Because for some reason, GW can't seem to bring themselves to make Eldar simply average.

At this rate, what I suspect will happen is that the vast majority of armies will basically be balanced, and Eldar will, as almost always, be completely OP.

Except, based on the article, it won't just be a few units. Everything in the codex will be ridiculously overpowered.

All of which would still result in a better state of affairs as far as balance goes than we have now.

Because then instead of having to have a "mature conversation," we'll be able to streamline the process:

"Are you playing eldar?"

"Yes."

"Can you play something else instead?"

"No."

"Is there anyone in the FLGS who isn't using eldar?"

"I'm using IG!"

"Great! Game on!"

There will always be units that are just a bit better than others, tuning isn't a precise art. The hope is that you can take the units you like without losing too much effectiveness. For instance taking a Deathwing army in 7th ed was an invitation for a butt kicking, hopefully, in 8th ed it can be a fun fluffy army that stands a decent chance.

Outside of that, I don't mind the Eldar having cool toys as long as they are appropriately priced, and the changes mentioned seem very fluffy, like striking scorpions mandible blasters being cool, and howling banshee's being fast to strike. I also haven't seen a phoenix lord on the table since third ed so it will be a treat. Guess I'll have to continue to wait to see a Necron faction focus.

I will say this, though:

Even if Eldar are completely OP, eldar players should have no difficulty getting games.

Simply proxy as DE.

The rules will be easily available.

Just to point somethings out here.

It's very likely mandiblasters is not a mortal wound per a model or if it's is it's on a 6+. More likely it's every unit within say 1" of a scorpion takes a mortal wound or d3. This also will be from a melee unit that has most likely s3/4 best case and has no ap. So instead of 10 s4 attacks you may get d3 mortal wounds it's not a huge amount.

Banshees going first sure they do t follow the normal rules same will probably go for Slanesh stuff some other aeldari mixes and other very fast things in this edition. It's not game breaking remember if they charge you they get that anyways so maybe don't charge units with bad saves in which is already what you should be doing as they are a dedicated combat unit.

And mortal wound saves exist all over aos such as the entire death faction gets a save if their general is alive. Every chaos warrior shield gives a save among many other things including basically every special character out there.

 Grimgold wrote:
There will always be units that are just a bit better than others, tuning isn't a precise art. The hope is that you can take the units you like without losing too much effectiveness. For instance taking a Deathwing army in 7th ed was an invitation for a butt kicking, hopefully, in 8th ed it can be a fun fluffy army that stands a decent chance.

Outside of that, I don't mind the Eldar having cool toys as long as they are appropriately priced, and the changes mentioned seem very fluffy, like striking scorpions mandible blasters being cool, and howling banshee's being fast to strike. I also haven't seen a phoenix lord on the table since third ed so it will be a treat. Guess I'll have to continue to wait to see a Necron faction focus.

The good thing about the new system is it should be easy to regularly update rules and points to adjust for anything playtesting missed (and I'm sure they missed something).

The charge thing was mentioned in the live Q&A I think.