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I feel like Counter-Offensive and Insane Bravery are going to be used more then the faction specific commands. I mean if I get charged by 3 different Ork units on the same turn I will certainly spend 2 CP so I can hit against ONE of them before they attack.

Spending 2 CP to have a unit ignore Battleshock for a turn is going to be a big thing for hoards, even if its for only one unit.

BomBomHotdog wrote:
I feel like Counter-Offensive and Insane Bravery are going to be used more then the faction specific commands. I mean if I get charged by 3 different Ork units on the same turn I will certainly spend 2 CP so I can hit against ONE of them before they attack.

Spending 2 CP to have a unit ignore Battleshock for a turn is going to be a big thing for hoards, even if its for only one unit.

You say that without any example of what a faction specfic one might be. I can see the big advantages of all 3 that we have so far. But speculating that others we have not seen would somehow be outshined by these is pure speculation based on nothing.

BomBomHotdog wrote:
I feel like Counter-Offensive and Insane Bravery are going to be used more then the faction specific commands. I mean if I get charged by 3 different Ork units on the same turn I will certainly spend 2 CP so I can hit against ONE of them before they attack.

Spending 2 CP to have a unit ignore Battleshock for a turn is going to be a big thing for hoards, even if its for only one unit.

1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Oh how scary 'boys' and probably not care...
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Hah, you're not charging us we are WAY over there
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Whatever, you charge them... Didn't even like those guys anyways... Oh? some lived... I'll just walk away then.
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... I would need to roll a 6 to lose even 1 more guy, and in that case I rather just spend the CP on the reroll... or just let the 1 more guy die -shrugs-
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Yeaaa I have a Special Rule on that unit... I strike first regardless bro...

^ Most of these overlap

Honestly I don't know why people are fussing. I like there's ones specific to mission types and just a few all-purpose ones.

It would be interesting if they can sometimes be used before the first turn. Like possibly spending command points to seize the initiative, or redeploy units, or put a unit into reserves and give it outflank.

I was gonna say the same thing. I'm almost getting the impression that some people want the stratagems to be bad.
The ones they showed are mechanically sound and all have a place. They seem generic because...well..that's exactly what they are?
The faction specific ones could do all kinds of things. I really don't see any reason to complain at all at this point.

I think people are forgetting that there's a damage roll in the game now. Sure rerolling one to hit on a meltagun isn't huge, rerolling the 2d6 take the highest damage roll would be HUGE, you're basically guaranteeing yourself to land in the 4-5-6 range.

ERJAK wrote:
I think people are forgetting that there's a damage roll in the game now. Sure rerolling one to hit on a meltagun isn't huge, rerolling the 2d6 take the highest damage roll would be HUGE, you're basically guaranteeing yourself to land in the 4-5-6 range.

Or a vital save on a character.

It's an ok idea. The problem will ofc be to balance out the choices for different armies.

 Talamare wrote:

BomBomHotdog wrote:
I feel like Counter-Offensive and Insane Bravery are going to be used more then the faction specific commands. I mean if I get charged by 3 different Ork units on the same turn I will certainly spend 2 CP so I can hit against ONE of them before they attack.

Spending 2 CP to have a unit ignore Battleshock for a turn is going to be a big thing for hoards, even if its for only one unit.

1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Oh how scary 'boys' and probably not care...
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Hah, you're not charging us we are WAY over there
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Whatever, you charge them... Didn't even like those guys anyways... Oh? some lived... I'll just walk away then.
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... I would need to roll a 6 to lose even 1 more guy, and in that case I rather just spend the CP on the reroll... or just let the 1 more guy die -shrugs-
1/3 of the armies in the game will be like... Yeaaa I have a Special Rule on that unit... I strike first regardless bro...

^ Most of these overlap

Depends on the every vehicle is a pseudo assault vehicle "promise" they made a while back.

Hopefully they will not front load certain factions with CP generating "not formations"

Hrm. So, I'm OK with the idea of the morale fallback, but I hope it isn't the crutch used to make large units possible. They use the example of a large unit of ork boyz, but I sincerely hope that you won't be required to use tons of CP (of which you'll have fewer, because so many points will be poured into one troop choice) just to run a large green tide.

the_scotsman wrote:
Hrm. So, I'm OK with the idea of the morale fallback, but I hope it isn't the crutch used to make large units possible. They use the example of a large unit of ork boyz, but I sincerely hope that you won't be required to use tons of CP (of which you'll have fewer, because so many points will be poured into one troop choice) just to run a large green tide.

Why exactly do we want large units to be possible? There's no function to plug characters in any more, AOE attacks don't get better the more you use at once, and it's not like there's a shortage of unit slots in the revealed FOCs to divide the models into functioning independent units.

ERJAK wrote:
I think people are forgetting that there's a damage roll in the game now. Sure rerolling one to hit on a meltagun isn't huge, rerolling the 2d6 take the highest damage roll would be HUGE, you're basically guaranteeing yourself to land in the 4-5-6 range.

all I need to say about he 1 re-roll is .... Fateweaver, a key re-roll is huge.

Key save, key "Run" roll, key damage roll, key to hit roll, charge, to wound, psychic test. If grounding is still a thing, or reserve rolls.

 malamis wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Hrm. So, I'm OK with the idea of the morale fallback, but I hope it isn't the crutch used to make large units possible. They use the example of a large unit of ork boyz, but I sincerely hope that you won't be required to use tons of CP (of which you'll have fewer, because so many points will be poured into one troop choice) just to run a large green tide.

Why exactly do we want large units to be possible? There's no function to plug characters in any more, AOE attacks don't get better the more you use at once, and it's not like there's a shortage of unit slots in the revealed FOCs to divide the models into functioning independent units.

Don't forget, in AOS you get a +1 to bravery for every 10 models in the unit. The daemonetts had a rule that gave bonuses at units above 20. The Orks are going to be fine. Hell, they're 99% likely to hit EVERYTHING on 3s instead of 4s and won't be handicapped by low initiative.

20 Ork boys rolling even just two attacks each would do damage, now imagine if they got a bonus attack at 20 Boyz. Don't forget they are also only wounded on a 3+ at best against the normal horde weapons that used to shred them. AND they'll get a save against anything that was ap5-6. The boys will make it accross the table, I am pretty sure of this!

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:


Don't forget, in AOS you get a +1 to bravery for every 10 models in the unit. The daemonetts had a rule that gave bonuses at units above 20. The Orks are going to be fine. Hell, they're 99% likely to hit EVERYTHING on 3s instead of 4s and won't be handicapped by low initiative.

20 Ork boys rolling even just two attacks each would do damage, now imagine if they got a bonus attack at 20 Boyz. Don't forget they are also only wounded on a 3+ at best against the normal horde weapons that used to shred them. AND they'll get a save against anything that was ap5-6. The boys will make it accross the table, I am pretty sure of this!

Now i'm all for this, adding unit count dependent bonuses across the board would add thematic shine .... but it doesn't fit that well in the with 'accessible, fast, balanced' priorities that GW published. If it happens, and it means that you have to weigh up the balance of morale resistant MSU against better damage output mega units who can potentially leverage command points further, that'd be great.

But somehow I don't see it happening.

From what we've got so far MSU is rather heavily favored. And remember Reecius - the chap who apparently did some of the play testing - has come out directly to indicate he supports the MSU style of game, at least within the operational constraints of 7th.