Are you able to lose half your ork boy blob to moral in 8th ?!

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**oldzoggy**

Today GW posted this...

Are you expecting to lose half of your biggest Ork squad to a punishing Morale test after taking heavy casualties in the Shooting phase? Not anymore! Auto-pass for 2 CPs.

This shocked me a bit. Then I checked the moral post.

The new Morale phase is simple, and only happens once per player turn, at the end of all your other phases. It will apply to almost every unit, and represents warriors fleeing the battlefield, dying from the psychic feedback shockwaves of their allies, or retreating with injured or fallen brethren. There will be very few units indeed that will not feel its effects.

The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a D6, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, the unit loses the difference in additional models.

Am I reading this wrong or can you actually lose a ton of models from post shooting moral tests in 8th : |

**Luciferian**

Would you rather lose the whole thing to an unlucky sweeping advance?

**Jbz`**

If you take enough casualties, yes.
Orks will (likely) be Ld 6
meaning that taking 6 casualties over the course of the turn will cause 1-6 more to "die" (by running off) any additional over 6 will cause even more to do so.

Luciferian wrote:
Would you rather lose the whole thing to an unlucky sweeping advance?

Honestly I can't recall the last time I manage to sweep an Ork unit.
People may hate the 7th edition mob rule, but it kept sweeping advances from happening most of the time

**mrhappyface**

Yep!
- 20 man Ork squad
- Bad shooting phase for Orks, 10 boyz die
- Moral comes and you roll a 6
- 6 + 10 dead - Ld7 = another 9 dead
- 1 lone boy left after moral

Hordes are gonna be fun this edition!

**oldzoggy**

Luciferian wrote:
Would you rather lose the whole thing to an unlucky sweeping advance?

Jup because there is no such thing as an unlucky sweaping advance. They will only happen when you are 1) In combat 2) lost that combat 3) are not fearless, marines or have some other rule to prevent it. There isn't something like accidentally charging a unit you can't handle in melee. These new losses however will always happen and greatly amplify the result of shooting at blobz.

**Luciferian**

Well you might want to save up on Command Points then

**Ballasar**

mrhappyface wrote:
Yep!
- 20 man Ork squad
- Bad shooting phase for Orks, 10 boyz die
- Moral comes and you roll a 6
- 6 + 10 dead - Ld7 = another 9 dead
- 1 lone boy left after moral

Hordes are gonna be fun this edition!

Or spend the 2 cp for an auto-pass. Will make cp use a much tougher call.

**ShadowPug**

Games workshop seem to be taking a slippery slope with balancing in my opinion and honestly it's exhilirating, either it's gonna be a broken mess or it's gonna be amazing.

**mrhappyface**

Ballasar wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Yep!
- 20 man Ork squad
- Bad shooting phase for Orks, 10 boyz die
- Moral comes and you roll a 6
- 6 + 10 dead - Ld7 = another 9 dead
- 1 lone boy left after moral

Hordes are gonna be fun this edition!

Or spend the 2 cp for an auto-pass. Will make cp use a much tougher call.

Let's hope you don't have two blob units who've taken a lot of casualties that turn.

**Fenris-77**

Keep in mind it's one moral test a turn, not per phase. That's one of the reasons why combat will look different because the results stack with shooting. Which means that, in some cases, even a 'bad' charge decision might be good if you think you can clear a particular total W threshold for the target unit. Damage done by the charging unit just in the fight phase isn't what 'wins' any more (seemingly, anyway).

Personally, I think that adds some tactical depth to the game.

**Minijack**

There is another possible angle to this...

In AoS,most Orruk profiles have 2 wounds each

Not saying thats coming to 40k,,but since so much other stuff has already we cant rule it out.

**Dr. Cheesesteak**

Ballasar wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Yep!
- 20 man Ork squad
- Bad shooting phase for Orks, 10 boyz die
- Moral comes and you roll a 6
- 6 + 10 dead - Ld7 = another 9 dead
- 1 lone boy left after moral

Hordes are gonna be fun this edition!

Or spend the 2 cp for an auto-pass. Will make cp use a much tougher call.

Luciferian wrote:
Well you might want to save up on Command Points then

There is a chance horde-y armies will have faction-specific rules that help them w/ morale as well.

**mrhappyface**

Minijack wrote:
There is another possible angle to this...

In AoS,most Orruk profiles have 2 wounds each

Not saying thats coming to 40k,,but since so much other stuff has already we cant rule it out.

And? Morale says remove "models" not take that many wounds.

**jhnbrg**

Luciferian wrote:
Well you might want to save up on Command Points then

It is rather telling that orks will need command points to even function. Another edition of crappy orks...

**Jbz`**

mrhappyface wrote:
Minijack wrote:
There is another possible angle to this...

In AoS,most Orruk profiles have 2 wounds each

Not saying thats coming to 40k,,but since so much other stuff has already we cant rule it out.

And? Morale says remove "models" not take that many wounds.

And if they have 2 wounds each they'll take half the casualties (ish)

**ProwlerPC**

It would mean it takes twice as many wounds to produce the same amount of high casualties we are afraid of.

**mrhappyface**

Jbz` wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Minijack wrote:
There is another possible angle to this...

In AoS,most Orruk profiles have 2 wounds each

Not saying thats coming to 40k,,but since so much other stuff has already we cant rule it out.

And? Morale says remove "models" not take that many wounds.

And if they have 2 wounds each they'll take half the casualties (ish)

So there is a pro and a con: you'll take less casualties in shooting/combat but you'll lose more wounds to Moral than an equivilant 1 wound model unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And besides, I very much doubt the horde army of Orks will gain 2 wounds on their troops.

**ZebioLizard2**

The Orcs did for Fantasy despite being just as hordelike.. So we dunno just yet honestly.

**tneva82**

Minijack wrote:
There is another possible angle to this...

In AoS,most Orruk profiles have 2 wounds each

Not saying thats coming to 40k,,but since so much other stuff has already we cant rule it out.

Not thbbasic orruk. Only elite.

Unless ork boys have special rule to help out msu is key

**CragHack**

There will, most likely, be characters that either let you use their high LD or outright ignore it (aka, fearless). And with the new rule about not being able to shoot characters if they are not the closest unit, horde armies might be the ones who will not give a damn about morale. Pretty much like you can do with Guardsmen now - stick a Priest and an Inquisitor, who leave you with fearless or LD10 if either one would get somehow sniped.

**ZebioLizard2**

tneva82 wrote:
Minijack wrote:
There is another possible angle to this...

In AoS,most Orruk profiles have 2 wounds each

Not saying thats coming to 40k,,but since so much other stuff has already we cant rule it out.

Not thbbasic orruk. Only elite.

Unless ork boys have special rule to help out msu is key

The Savage Orruks were also 1W till they got their battletome update, so kinda hard to tell.

**jhnbrg**

CragHack wrote:
There will, most likely, be characters that either let you use their high LD or outright ignore it (aka, fearless). And with the new rule about not being able to shoot characters if they are not the closest unit, horde armies might be the ones who will not give a damn about morale. Pretty much like you can do with Guardsmen now - stick a Priest and an Inquisitor, who leave you with fearless or LD10 if either one would get somehow sniped.

We will have to wait and see but i think horde armies will continue to be useless in this edition too.

**Crimson Devil**

I would imagine stuff like Boss Poles would add leadership.

In AoS I play Bonesplitterz and battle shock isn't that big of a deal. My units have either a 5 or 6 Bravery and the banners add +2 if I'm within 3" on the enemy. And my Warboss can make one unit ignore BS. My Boyz are either fine or dead.

**wuestenfux**

Looks like morale is handled similarly to AoS, cp aside.
Not a bad move.
However, in my Bloodbound army I never go out with two Bloodsecreators. Within an area each Bloodsecreator can grant no battleshock test for units within this area. This saved my day several times.

**Perfect Organism**

So, ork armies basically need to use their command points to stop their troops falling apart, leaving nothing for other uses.

On top of that, the sheer number of dice we roll means that re-rolls are less useful for us.

And taking many small units to mitigate the morale losses means that the counter-assault stratagem is fairly useless as well.

I was feeling hopeful after seeing the FOCs and imagining that we would get enough of a point reduction to have massively more command points than most armies. Sadly, it doesn't look like that will do us much good.

**davou**

Luciferian wrote:
Well you might want to save up on Command Points then

Or have some war-bosses around, and take the bosspole for whatever it does!

**Marmatag**

I don't know exactly why they wanted to implement battleshock.

Maybe they wanted to balance out the loss of templates?

Maybe they wanted to speed the game up?

Maybe they wanted to provide a disincentive to making extremely large blobs of models?

**Mr. Grey**

jhnbrg wrote:
Luciferian wrote:
Well you might want to save up on Command Points then

It is rather telling that orks will need command points to even function. Another edition of crappy orks...

You're making snap judgements based on two small snippets of the 8th edition rules, with no information whatsoever yet about what kinds of special rules orks themselves will get. For all we know, orks will have a rule that says "Increase ork leadership by +2 for every 12 orks in the mob - there's strength in numbers!".

**mrhappyface**

Marmatag wrote:
I don't know exactly why they wanted to implement battleshock.

Maybe they wanted to balance out the loss of templates?

Maybe they wanted to speed the game up?

Maybe they wanted to provide a disincentive to making extremely large blobs of models?

Or maybe because a lot of players were sick of how half of the armies out their completely ignored morale until it became a joke and now want to make morale a threat for players again?

**AndrewGPaul**

Since no-one has seen the stats for any Ork units except the basic profile for a Morkanaught, all this discussion seems a little premature.