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Well, sadly...both the stats and the fluff are shockingly "meh".

Their bolters have RAIL SYSTEMS!

SOLD!

 Ginsu33 wrote:
Their bolters have RAIL SYSTEMS!

SOLD!

So did the old ones. . .

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Ginsu33 wrote:
Their bolters have RAIL SYSTEMS!

SOLD!

So did the old ones. . .

Not really, they had a block of metal running between the sight posts on top of the receiver. These ones have fancy 1913 style rails.

Edit: Although it seems the scopes are mounted directly to the receiver instead of on the rail... lol

 Luciferian wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Ginsu33 wrote:
Their bolters have RAIL SYSTEMS!

SOLD!

So did the old ones. . .

Not really, they had a block of metal running between the sight posts on top of the receiver. These ones have fancy 1913 style rails.

It looked 'rail' enough for me. Wasn't notched out but that was always my assumption.

Note that the new scope doesn't even attach to the rail.

 Insectum7 wrote:

It looked 'rail' enough for me. Wasn't notched out but that was always my assumption.

Note that the new scope doesn't even attach to the rail.

Yeah i edited my post when I noticed that. Funny stuff.

This time, 2 years from now, old marines releases will be a thing of the past, old boxes on a shelf with out dated rules.

Considering how good these new marines look, I think it's a good thing.

 Rippy wrote:
This time, 2 years from now, old marines releases will be a thing of the past, old boxes on a shelf with out dated rules.

Considering how good these new marines look, I think it's a good thing.

They certainly do look pretty awesome, to my eyes. An improvement on the current models in basically every way.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
So most of the CSM miniature line is ancient and looks terrible compared to most of the loyalist marine line and what do they do? They make more loyalist marine kits.

They look great but if Chaos marines don't get a resculpt soon I'm going to be pissed that they're spending resources on making kits nobody asked for.

Wait, what? I actually really like the CSM aesthetic, and the Rubric Marines especially which are both new and strictly stat for stat better than the primaris marines... Also there's a new CSM kit coming out with this release, Deathguard or whatever...and it looks awesome...

I'm totally confused by this post.

'dem rail systems are goofy, with hilariously fist sized front sight posts, and the plasma gun's rails being stuck on top of a carry handle giving you the mother of all offsets.

That said...they do give a bit more aggressive vibe to the silhouette of the bolter, I can see what they're trying to do artistically, but they're still goofy.

The rail system is just aesthetics I know.. but still it's cool.
Cooler still if we have bayonet attachments for these

Man… I’m a little bit hyped.

The whole design do feels new even thou not too much changes. I dig it a lot.
The weapon feels more like weapons now, and not some small pug bolters like the rest of the smaller space marines’ use.

 Vaktathi wrote:
'dem rail systems are goofy, with hilariously fist sized front sight posts, and the plasma gun's rails being stuck on top of a carry handle giving you the mother of all offsets.

That said...they do give a bit more aggressive vibe to the silhouette of the bolter, I can see what they're trying to do artistically, but they're still goofy.

About the rail on the carry handle; the M16A2 was designed to mount optics on its carry handle, and to this day the A2 offset is standard on M4 and AR15 platforms even though they typically come with a flat rail instead of the handle. Most optics designed for the platform have the rise built in, and if you try to mount an optic that doesn't have it directly to the rail you may find it noticeably less comfortable to shoot, as well as precluding the co-witnessing of the optic with your iron sights. So the rail on the carry handle makes at least some kind of sense, but there's still no explanation for having a rail that you can't even use because it sits directly in front of your receiver mounted scope

 Vaktathi wrote:
'dem rail systems are goofy, with hilariously fist sized front sight posts, and the plasma gun's rails being stuck on top of a carry handle giving you the mother of all offsets.

That said...they do give a bit more aggressive vibe to the silhouette of the bolter, I can see what they're trying to do artistically, but they're still goofy.

It doesn't make sense anyway because the helm's auspex should supply all the zooming function to boot. Using sights shouldn't even be required.

Any word on pricing for these guys? If they're supposed to be between Marines and Termies on the tabletop I'm guessing they'll be around 50-60$ for 10, just a thought

Also, does anyone else thing we might see special weapons squads? Like in the Horus Heresy, seeing how Guilliman was in stasis since then?

Sorry if this has already been brought up

 Marmatag wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
So most of the CSM miniature line is ancient and looks terrible compared to most of the loyalist marine line and what do they do? They make more loyalist marine kits.

They look great but if Chaos marines don't get a resculpt soon I'm going to be pissed that they're spending resources on making kits nobody asked for.

Wait, what? I actually really like the CSM aesthetic, and the Rubric Marines especially which are both new and strictly stat for stat better than the primaris marines... Also there's a new CSM kit coming out with this release, Deathguard or whatever...and it looks awesome...

I'm totally confused by this post.

The Rubric and Plague marine kits are great... if you happen to play TS/DG.

For the rest of us CSM players, almost all of our models (vanilla marines, noise marines, bikes, obliterators, metal boxes, terminators, daemon princes, possessed, Abby, Huron, Lucius and berserkers to name a few) are really showing their age.

Noise marines still require an upgrade pack.
Details almost every infantry unit just melt away into nothing.
Our rhinos etc just look like loyalist vehicles with a few rows of pikes thrown on top.
Oblits are still failcast.
Anyone can see how awful Abaddon and co. look compared to more recently released characters.

There are so many armies that are in far more need of new models than the loyalist marines. Hell, in the time they spent producing these things, they could have made a plastic sister kit instead.

A new edition definitely needs a new kit for GW's best selling product line (Space Marines).

I do agree with the chaos marine line needing an upgrade though. With the possible exception of the khorne berzerker kit. That one stands the test of time.

I think the models are great, fluff, could use some work.

But what I am excited for though, is what these Marines will mean to new players. When trying to get people to play games that are bigger than skirmish level, a lot of guys I have introduced to it are put off by just how many models they need to build and paint to get started. These will be great for that new player who can now build and paint five instead of ten for a full squad. The squads themselves will be easy to learn as well. Now they won't need to remember the profile of a heavy weapon, a special weapon, and whatever the sergeant is carrying. And now they also don't have to worry about how to build their basic line squads while learning the game. How many times as a new player did you build your guys with the coolest options, only to find out they sucked or are a waste of points for that squad? Or build a guy with every special weapon option only to find out you can't use them all in a single squad?

I welcome the very focused load outs and purpose of the Primaris Marines. I also hope that they support the current scale of Marines and keep them viable.

For Chaos, would love if only the new Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children and Khorne Berserkers came in the new scale to represent them having their god's favor or what not, and kept the basic Chaos Marine in the current scale, maybe with one new scale marine as the champion in the box and give champions slightly better stats. To me that would make sense, aren't Chaos Marines organized into warbands led by a guy who bullied them into following them, or are blessed by their gods? It always struck me a little odd that the champion of a chaos marine squad is ever so slightly better than the unloyal members of his squad who would most likely at any opportunity kill them to gain favor or power.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Any word on pricing for these guys? If they're supposed to be between Marines and Termies on the tabletop I'm guessing they'll be around 50-60$ for 10, just a thought

Also, does anyone else thing we might see special weapons squads? Like in the Horus Heresy, seeing how Guilliman was in stasis since then?

Sorry if this has already been brought up

Given that they're approximately the same size as Stormcast Eternals, I would hazard a guess that they'd be the same price as the Liberators.

Although given that they mentioned being fielded in units of 5, they might be priced like terminators at first (like the Liberators) then given a 10-man box set 1-2 years down the road once the hype dies down and realizes people actually need these in bulk for their Nu-Armies.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Any word on pricing for these guys? If they're supposed to be between Marines and Termies on the tabletop I'm guessing they'll be around 50-60$ for 10, just a thought

Also, does anyone else thing we might see special weapons squads? Like in the Horus Heresy, seeing how Guilliman was in stasis since then?

Sorry if this has already been brought up

Given that they're approximately the same size as Stormcast Eternals, I would hazard a guess that they'd be the same price as the Liberators.

Although given that they mentioned being fielded in units of 5, they might be priced like terminators at first (like the Liberators) then given a 10-man box set 1-2 years down the road once the hype dies down and realizes people actually need these in bulk for their Nu-Armies.

They're not quite that big I think. Keep in mind that SE are slightly bigger than terminators and it looks like these guys are still on 32s.

Let's just hope they arnt £35 for 5 like sigmarines were, but knowing gw I bet they will be.

size wise they seem about the same size as the death watch, a little taller, bulkier armor, the heads and shoulders are notably said to be the same size.

Maybe a unit of these unlocks a choice between a special, assault or heavy unit version. If it doesn't, I understand what people are saying (gameplay not looks wise) as to why would you want to include them over the other versions.

However... I am getting a serious feeling that troops are going to become far more durable in this edition (basing this on the save mechanic and leaked weapons so far), therefore, even tougher troops could be even more effective, as it won't be all about how many models you can remove in 2 turns.

***Furthermore - has anyone yet spotted that a large blast for a Leman Russ went to d6 shots whilst a small blast for a Frag Grenade has also got d6 shots? That means small/large/apoc etc blasts are definitely not going to have a set conversion of shots.***

ohh definatly agree, durabilty is going up this edition which is something I think a "missing peice of the puzzle" as it where when judging things. GW I think specificly wants to avoid the style of gameplay you saw a lot of in 7th where you hand a handfull of power units doing all the lifting, while everything else was basicly just ablative hit points

 Elbows wrote:
Well, sadly...both the stats and the fluff are shockingly "meh".

What were you expecting? There is a limit to how hight they can crank them without invalidating Terminators. 2 Wounds and Ld7 is pretty good when you consider the new Battleshock rules. You have to deal a squad of these guys 4 wounds in a single turn before they even start to be at risk from Battleshock.

I admit that Tacticals++ is a bit boring but I am sure other flavours of Primaris will be coming.

 Karhedron wrote:
I admit that Tacticals++ is a bit boring but I am sure other flavours of Primaris will be coming.

It'll be interesting to see what a Mark X jet pack looks like.

edit: whoops misread

People stop think about battleshock. These are marines, and they shall know no fear.
Seriusly, that rule is staying, we see it on the slate. Battleshock probably isn't a marine's first worry

ERJAK wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Any word on pricing for these guys? If they're supposed to be between Marines and Termies on the tabletop I'm guessing they'll be around 50-60$ for 10, just a thought

Also, does anyone else thing we might see special weapons squads? Like in the Horus Heresy, seeing how Guilliman was in stasis since then?

Sorry if this has already been brought up

Given that they're approximately the same size as Stormcast Eternals, I would hazard a guess that they'd be the same price as the Liberators.

Although given that they mentioned being fielded in units of 5, they might be priced like terminators at first (like the Liberators) then given a 10-man box set 1-2 years down the road once the hype dies down and realizes people actually need these in bulk for their Nu-Armies.

They're not quite that big I think. Keep in mind that SE are slightly bigger than terminators and it looks like these guys are still on 32s.

I heard somewhere that they're somewhere around custodes size, so maybe a little cheaper than them?

I want to know about the 2 guys with plasma guns though

 Purifier wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
I admit that Tacticals++ is a bit boring but I am sure other flavours of Primaris will be coming.

It'll be interesting to see what a Mark X jet pack looks like.

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