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 Deadshot wrote:



People wanted True Scale Marines, these are Truscale marines. They can't just shoehorn them in though and pretend nothing happened and there's no reason why these Marines are suddenly head and shoulders taller with markedly bigger and elongated guns.

They've drastically redesigned Tyranids twice since I started playing. Same with Daemons (although not as drastic).

They made new terminator kits much larger than the old ones without any fluff reason.

I'm not saying GW is wrong for giving a fluffy reason for the increased size or not, I'm just pointing out that they have shoehorned in newer models and pretending nothing happened in the past... just not to marines.

Since marines are so popular, they are getting special treatment here. This is actually the first time I can remember that they are actually pretending something did happen!

Well, when was the last time they properly advanced the clock?

 Red Viper wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:



People wanted True Scale Marines, these are Truscale marines. They can't just shoehorn them in though and pretend nothing happened and there's no reason why these Marines are suddenly head and shoulders taller with markedly bigger and elongated guns.

They've drastically redesigned Tyranids twice since I started playing. Same with Daemons (although not as drastic).

They made new terminator kits much larger than the old ones without any fluff reason.

I'm not saying GW is wrong for giving a fluffy reason for the increased size or not, I'm just pointing out that they have shoehorned in newer models and pretending nothing happened in the past... just not to marines.

Since marines are so popular, they are getting special treatment here. This is actually the first time I can remember that they are actually pretending something did happen!

Tyranids drastically redesign themselves on a regular basis to suit the situation, the old models are every bit as valid as the old ones, and you can easily put a 3rd Ed Hive Tyrant next to a modern one and say its purposefully smaller with a bigger brain to focus on controlling the horde and not fighting.

Similarly Daemons are highly mutable and can change on a whim. No issue with putting an old and new Bloodthirster together and say one is much more powerful and of higher rank than the other.

Terminators, plus all the old models, were horribly out of proportion, and in the grand scheme of things, all the old models were horrible in terms of detail, poseability and scale. They were simply redesigned to better fit the modern Space Marine. However, if you make new Space Marines just as big as Terminators are currently you have to redesign all the Terminators, vehicles and stuff like that. Primaris Marines are simply the product of asking for truscale in a abstract 28mm heroic scale game. The Primaris next to other marines would look horrendous, if they were all suppose to be the same Marines.

 Deadshot wrote:

Tyranids drastically redesign themselves on a regular basis to suit the situation, the old models are every bit as valid as the old ones, and you can easily put a 3rd Ed Hive Tyrant next to a modern one and say its purposefully smaller with a bigger brain to focus on controlling the horde and not fighting.

Similarly Daemons are highly mutable and can change on a whim. No issue with putting an old and new Bloodthirster together and say one is much more powerful and of higher rank than the other.

Terminators, plus all the old models, were horribly out of proportion, and in the grand scheme of things, all the old models were horrible in terms of detail, poseability and scale. They were simply redesigned to better fit the modern Space Marine. However, if you make new Space Marines just as big as Terminators are currently you have to redesign all the Terminators, vehicles and stuff like that. Primaris Marines are simply the product of asking for truscale in a abstract 28mm heroic scale game. The Primaris next to other marines would look horrendous, if they were all suppose to be the same Marines.

Fair points, but are those official explanations.... or just reasons players made up to justify it?

Earth127 wrote:
Well, when was the last time they properly advanced the clock?

This is the first major story advancement that I can recall.

This is just sad.

 Red Viper wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

Tyranids drastically redesign themselves on a regular basis to suit the situation, the old models are every bit as valid as the old ones, and you can easily put a 3rd Ed Hive Tyrant next to a modern one and say its purposefully smaller with a bigger brain to focus on controlling the horde and not fighting.

Similarly Daemons are highly mutable and can change on a whim. No issue with putting an old and new Bloodthirster together and say one is much more powerful and of higher rank than the other.

Terminators, plus all the old models, were horribly out of proportion, and in the grand scheme of things, all the old models were horrible in terms of detail, poseability and scale. They were simply redesigned to better fit the modern Space Marine. However, if you make new Space Marines just as big as Terminators are currently you have to redesign all the Terminators, vehicles and stuff like that. Primaris Marines are simply the product of asking for truscale in a abstract 28mm heroic scale game. The Primaris next to other marines would look horrendous, if they were all suppose to be the same Marines.

Fair points, but are those official explanations.... or just reasons players made up to justify it?

Official explanations being the models were metal, expensive to make, not very customisable, and well, rubbish. Compare the old nids to new nids. Sure, you might like the Xenomorph Queen style Hive Tyrant with crest from 3rd ed, but in terms of actual design, can you say it lives up to the newer metal and plastics? Or the old "smushface" Carnifex compared to the hulking terror than is the plastic? Or the old metal BT to the new giant one, or old Terminators to even the slightly dated plastics? The quality of design and casting is simply improved. But for Daemons and Nids you simply don't need to justify the difference in models, they have their own background you can explore if you wish, but not necessary in the slightest. For Space Marines, having giant marines in with your regulars could be simply discarded, but from a fluff perspective, there needs to be a reason

If they just made Guardsmen smaller...

Am I the only one who was never interested in "true-scale" Marines? I mean, these are models, miniatures; both words mean REPRESENTATION. They are an abstraction of a Space Marine. A "true-scale" Space Marine would be cosplay, not a plastic miniature.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If they just made Guardsmen smaller...

That would have worked, and probably better for all considering that Necrons are big and scary, right? Are they "true-scale" already? What about Orks? Are they "true-scale" as well?

At least with the fluff justification, there are story and head-canon opportunities available with a new breed of Space Marine. I might get some, but I might not. Depends on my financial situation over the next couple years more than anything, but I won't actively boycott them.

At the very start of 3E, all of the new plastics were "true scale".

Then we got the embiggened Cadians & Catachans from worlds where the average human is built like the Mountain...

2E metal Guardsmen (and Sisters) make almost everything else in 7E "true scale".

BTW, have you compared a RT/2E/GM Ork with the modern stuff on the table? Runty.

I hope I run into somebody at my local FLGS who plays the same army as me but is as adamantly against nu-marines as OP is so we can have a nice Nu-marine vs Manlet Marine civil war and see who comes out on top.

Ya know what, I think I will boycott "Nu-Marines"

But not the models themselves or their use. Rather, I will boycott the name 'Nu-marine'. Their name is 'Primaris Marines' or 'Primarines' for short.
"Nu" marine is too Millennial for my taste

-

At last we get to the real issues.

 Galef wrote:
Ya know what, I think I will boycott "Nu-Marines"

But not the models themselves or their use. Rather, I will boycott the name 'Nu-marine'. Their name is 'Primaris Marines' or 'Primarines' for short.
"Nu" marine is too Millennial for my taste

-

I believe we've established that Adeptus Restartes is the official High Gothic name.

 EnTyme wrote:

I believe we've established that Adeptus Restartes is the official High Gothic name.

When I first read that, I thought you were saying "Adeptus Retardes" and had a nice chuckle.
Then I realized you said "Restartes" and it was even better.

Good job

 Galef wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

I believe we've established that Adeptus Restartes is the official High Gothic name.

When I first read that, I thought you were saying "Adeptus Retardes" and had a nice chuckle.
Then I realized you said "Restartes" and it was even better.

Good job

Brought forth by Reboot Guilliman!

Galef wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

I believe we've established that Adeptus Restartes is the official High Gothic name.

When I first read that, I thought you were saying "Adeptus Retardes" and had a nice chuckle.
Then I realized you said "Restartes" and it was even better.

Good job

I wish I could take credit, but someone else used the term in the N&R thread. I'm just coopting it.

BunkhouseBuster wrote:

Brought forth by Reboot Guilliman!

Yeah. I'm taking that, too.

I will be happy when Nu-Marines completely phase out the current range.

 Traditio wrote:
GW is a corporation.

Corporations care about one thing, and one thing only: profit.

There is, I think, a not-unwarranted fear that marines are going the way of the dodo with the advent of nu-marines.

There is a very clear way to avoid this:

Boycott them.

Get everyone you know to boycott them.

Make attempting to sell the fluff abomination which is nu-marines a fiscally painful experience for GW.

To be clear, this is very much, unlike my previous "Boycott Magnus" thread.

That was all about balance.

This is about the fact that nu-marines are an existential threat to vintage marines.

You want GW to keep supporting vintage marines?

Then show them, with your wallets, that you refuse to allow them to be replaced.

This entire post is based on the assumption that this isn't a good idea. How so?

Why is it bad for a business venture? Is it not better for a business to want to risk capital in new procedures or new products? Why stick with the old if they can manufacture better items or products for their customers?

If you like to consider how this is a poor decision please tell me. I would like to be educated as to why this would be a horrible risk to a company?

What would be a risk is to do nothing and not release new products with the advent of a new product line. Their goal is to make money and that involves satisfying their customers and their shareholders.

Your position is one of the few vocal minority: Who will boycott and we can see in this thread a lot of people are opposed to boycotting GW. Because they aren't doing any harm to the IP. It is the companies decision to do whatever it wants with the IP at hand.

I see no reason to boycott them for their current business dealings. Infact I applaud them for taking a risk and doing something that upsets their product line and offers something new.

Removed by insaniak.

Asherian Command wrote:This entire post is based on the assumption that this isn't a good idea. How so?

Why is it bad for a business venture?

Nowhere in the OP did I make the claim that it's a bad idea for a business venture.

It's not worthy of a boycott because it's a bad for business. It's worthy of a boycott because it's bad for people who have already purchased the vintage models.

 Traditio wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:This entire post is based on the assumption that this isn't a good idea. How so?

Why is it bad for a business venture?

Nowhere in the OP did I make the claim that it's a bad idea for a business venture.

It's not worthy of a boycott because it's a bad for business. It's worthy of a boycott because it's bad for people who have already purchased the vintage models.

Can you prove that? Even if Primaris MArines do cause old marine units to be phased out, what stops people from just using their old marine models as primaris marines?

CrownAxe wrote:Can you prove that? Even if Primaris MArines do cause old marine units to be phased out, what stops people from just using their old marine models as primaris marines?

That's the rub, isn't it?

I don't know.

For casual PUGs, it may or may not be problematic.

For tournaments?

 Traditio wrote:

CrownAxe wrote:Can you prove that? Even if Primaris MArines do cause old marine units to be phased out, what stops people from just using their old marine models as primaris marines?

That's the rub, isn't it?

I don't know.

For casual PUGs, it may or may not be problematic.

For tournaments?

The people going to the kinds of tourneys that will care about it, will have the models.

 Traditio wrote:

For tournaments?

It will potentially be a temporary issue (solved in the majority of cases by making it clear to the TO and/or your opponents which models are Primaris marines) that will last only until the old range is discontinued and the army reverts to just being 'Marines'...

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:This entire post is based on the assumption that this isn't a good idea. How so?

Why is it bad for a business venture?

Nowhere in the OP did I make the claim that it's a bad idea for a business venture.

It's not worthy of a boycott because it's a bad for business. It's worthy of a boycott because it's bad for people who have already purchased the vintage models.

Can you prove that? Even if Primaris MArines do cause old marine units to be phased out, what stops people from just using their old marine models as primaris marines?

Well, I don't want 1 company of Marines and 9 companies of Primaris Marines, I want 10 companies of regular marines. Plus I already have all my officers as regulars.

I think offering less options is a terrible idea, and that more options for customers is much more appealling. At current, Primaris marine basic (tactical) squads have little flexibility due to lack of weapon changes. This is good as it leaves a role open for both sets, and makes both appealling. Taking away regular marines and forcing me to use the Primaris would be the day I stop buying Marines, as I find the Primaris model to be personally unappealing (which is my main motivation for buying anything from GW)

If I remember correctly, there was a statement a while back when they changed base sizes that marines could be on either 25mm or 32mm bases,

I have my Wolves and Sisters on 25mm bases, and have never had a problem with it.


And if Grey Hunters are phased out for Primaris Grey Hunters, why would I not be able to use my old Grey Hunters? I haven't seen complaints about the two old terminator models I have. I've never seen complaints against other people using older models either.

I look at it this way, we will have tru-scale marines which is something a lot of people wanted, me too, it always irked me to have SM's same size as IG.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
If I remember correctly, there was a statement a while back when they changed base sizes that marines could be on either 25mm or 32mm bases,

I have my Wolves and Sisters on 25mm bases, and have never had a problem with it.


And if Grey Hunters are phased out for Primaris Grey Hunters, why would I not be able to use my old Grey Hunters? I haven't seen complaints about the two old terminator models I have. I've never seen complaints against other people using older models either.

I personally hate 25mm. I would rebase my entire SoB army on 32s if I could.

I haven't rebased my plague marines, sounds like alot of effort.