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lonestarr777 wrote:
I don't think 6pt boyz deserve better than a 6+ save, I always happily paid my 4pts to give them eavy armor and a decent save of 4+.

What I think is why the feth should I be excited about occasionally getting to roll for a 6+ save thats bairly ever gonna fething happen or be a available. I'll sooner chuck 14 boyz in the deadpile than roll a fistful of dice cause two might not die, its a waste of fething time and nothing to be thrilled over. Oh but you get to roll 12 dice again on the offchance, oh, no sixes? Yeah their still dead.

What I want to have a better invuln save of some kind are my fething nobz or warbosses but theyll probably be stuck with the stupid once in a game miracle save while they still get fething blendered.

"Why even bother shooting my guns? Why waste time rolling all that dice just for a few lucky 5+ rolls? Why even take shootaz or tankbustaz or dakkajets when nearly 70% of my shooting will miss anyway?!"

I don't really understand your complaint. You're playing a faction that, as a rule, relies on sheer weight of dice to do pretty much anything.

All of this totally fits the mentality and tactics of Orks, which is really great since that is now translated into the game.

For possibly the first time in history it might become viable to field tightly packed hordes of Orks and have them basically ignore anything and everything coming their way.

I can see them being leadership 5. Grots maybe 4. Oh dear god I hope killa kanz don't have bad leadership that might still make them completely garbage. Kill a single kan and another 150 point model runs :(

Hopefully they buff mek gunz so you don't need five 50 dollar models in order for them to be kinda-good.

Also they said they would have rules for every model. But......mega armored warbosses never got a model. Neither did bosses and meks and painboys on bikes (the forgeworld guy is a special character, his datasheet won't work for generic warbosses). Either they make new ork models (ha!) or we might get screwed.

So I understood that the 5+ KFF and 6+ Pain Boy are SEPARATE rolls and you're allowed to take both.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

lonestarr777 wrote:
I don't think 6pt boyz deserve better than a 6+ save, I always happily paid my 4pts to give them eavy armor and a decent save of 4+.

What I think is why the feth should I be excited about occasionally getting to roll for a 6+ save thats bairly ever gonna fething happen or be a available. I'll sooner chuck 14 boyz in the deadpile than roll a fistful of dice cause two might not die, its a waste of fething time and nothing to be thrilled over. Oh but you get to roll 12 dice again on the offchance, oh, no sixes? Yeah their still dead.

What I want to have a better invuln save of some kind are my fething nobz or warbosses but theyll probably be stuck with the stupid once in a game miracle save while they still get fething blendered.

"Why even bother shooting my guns? Why waste time rolling all that dice just for a few lucky 5+ rolls? Why even take shootaz or tankbustaz or dakkajets when nearly 70% of my shooting will miss anyway?!"

I don't really understand your complaint. You're playing a faction that, as a rule, relies on sheer weight of dice to do pretty much anything.

That's how it's supposed to be effective, in reality missing 2/3 of your shots when you're paying similar prices, or more, than someone who misses 1/3 shots is terrible. Ever seen an Ork gunline work properly? Seen Orks do consistently well for two editions? I don't mind rolling loads of dice if it gives me a good chance, comparative to cost, of success. Rolling loads of dice to no avail is futile and it's what we've done for a while now.

 Talamare wrote:
So I understood that the 5+ KFF and 6+ Pain Boy are SEPARATE rolls and you're allowed to take both.

Isn't that how it works in 7ed? Not seeing how this is new new...

 Talamare wrote:
So I understood that the 5+ KFF and 6+ Pain Boy are SEPARATE rolls and you're allowed to take both.

One is an invuln and one is FNP. Or the equivalent in newhammer.

I am a little disappointed about no mention of invluns in CC, however, mega armor has effectively a 5++ invluns v. AP2 now, which isn't nothing.

Invluns would be nice on things like normal nobz, but still, for mega armor at least, v. power fists and the like I'd happily take a 5+ over nothing.

 More Dakka wrote:

Also, in the new system we have no reason to spread our boyz out. I'm thinking of making movement trays where they're all close packed on different levels to be truly a green tide.

Not a bad idea at all.

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
So I understood that the 5+ KFF and 6+ Pain Boy are SEPARATE rolls and you're allowed to take both.

One is an invuln and one is FNP. Or the equivalent in newhammer.

And while going from a 5+ FNP to a 6+ FNP is an objective nerf, painboyz are going to have an aoe effect, like KFFs, probably.

So, instead of giving 5+ FNP to one squad, a painboy could, potentially, give a 6+ to several. That could even out in the end.

Maybe cybork bodies could buff the FNP effect like, you know, it's supposed to.

Paladins better only have 3 wounds as well, or the mega nobz better have gone down in points compared to them. also wondering if normal nobz will be 3 or 2 wounds in 8th.

They might even have given all orks +1 wound in general.
2 wound loota's for the win : )

Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

pingu wrote:
Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

overwatch if i recall correctly will still be a thing, 9 inches away sure but then declare a charge and maybe that 9 inch becomes 11 inches away and difficult vs tau but stays 9 inches vs tyranids.

The way they described Mob Rules is it's leadership equal to the number of models in the unit OR and nearby unit.

If you have 3 20 model units of boyz then even if you kill 10 out of one of the units then each unit is STILL leadership 20.

Those Killa Kans might have poor leadership, but if they get Mob Rules they just need to hang out with some boyz.

They haven't said how vehicle squadrons will work yet, not sure if they'll be susceptible to LD wounds like regular squads.

pingu wrote:
Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

As long as it screws the Tau and Eldar, I'll live with it.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

pingu wrote:
Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

overwatch if i recall correctly will still be a thing, 9 inches away sure but then declare a charge and maybe that 9 inch becomes 11 inches away and difficult vs tau but stays 9 inches vs tyranids.

You only need to be within 1 inch for the charge to be successful, so it's really an 8+.

Yeah but psychic powers are easier to stop now remember.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

pingu wrote:
Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

overwatch if i recall correctly will still be a thing, 9 inches away sure but then declare a charge and maybe that 9 inch becomes 11 inches away and difficult vs tau but stays 9 inches vs tyranids.

Casualties don't work that way. You decide where to cut from.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

pingu wrote:
Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

overwatch if i recall correctly will still be a thing, 9 inches away sure but then declare a charge and maybe that 9 inch becomes 11 inches away and difficult vs tau but stays 9 inches vs tyranids.

Casualties don't work that way. You decide where to cut from.

awesome if true, back to casualties from the back, but where are you getting that part from?

 G00fySmiley wrote:


overwatch if i recall correctly will still be a thing, 9 inches away sure but then declare a charge and maybe that 9 inch becomes 11 inches away and difficult vs tau but stays 9 inches vs tyranids.

Player who owns the models chooses which ones die so you can remove models from the back. Also, Orks can reroll failed charges so they can more or less reliably pull it off.

As for sticking it to the eldar and tau players, not all of us played when those armies were broken (I own eldar and haven't played a single game in 7th), I would just like some balance in GW games.
Sadly, most of the time that seems like too much to ask.

Edit: I'm not saying that the sky is falling, maybe it will be the best Gw ruleset yet! I am just worried because after playing their games for more than 10 years I have lost confidence in their ability to write quality rules.

Everyone that has played Age of Sigmar knows how powerfull the Da Jump spell is gonna be.

Ask Sayl the Faithless and his Blodletterbomb about it

 G00fySmiley wrote:


overwatch if i recall correctly will still be a thing, 9 inches away sure but then declare a charge and maybe that 9 inch becomes 11 inches away and difficult vs tau but stays 9 inches vs tyranids.

I think that shot models can be removed from the back of the unit instead of the closest models so the distance would still be "at least 9 inches".

Edited: Seems someone was faster than me.

 Lance845 wrote:
The way they described Mob Rules is it's leadership equal to the number of models in the unit OR and nearby unit.

If you have 3 20 model units of boyz then even if you kill 10 out of one of the units then each unit is STILL leadership 20.

Those Killa Kans might have poor leadership, but if they get Mob Rules they just need to hang out with some boyz.

This is what I don't like. Mob rule is great for LD = unit size. That makes sense.
But the fact that it doesn't even matter how many you kill in a unit because a nearby unit gives them LD30? That's a bit weird to me.

So in your example, you have to kill 10 models FROM EACH UNIT before Morale even matters.
The one thing I do like about this is that it makes opponents have to think about which units they want to shoot at. That's always a good thing for game health.
And anything to help the poor Greenskins make a comeback, I'm all for.

Come to think of it, what if it means that Ork units can use the unmodified LD of nearby units? So they could use a Warbosses LD10, but not the Mob Rule LD of a 30 Boys unit?
Literally you get to treat your LD as YOUR unit size, or the LD of an nearby unit (not THEIR unit size)

-

XlDuke gets it. I know my shooting is piss poor and I know boyz are supposed to die in droves, thats not what pisses me off about the painboy. What is upsetting is wasting an HQ slot, presumably, to roll a fistful of dice for [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius] and thinking this is a feature to be thrilled over.

All this faction focus has shown me is painboy out, wyrdboy in. Meganobz wwwaaayyy in.

I really do love my orkz, I'm building a feral warband of snakebitez to add to my evil sunz right now. But exscuse me for not being over the [MOD EDIT - Language! - Alpharius] craptastic FNP and no mention of if my two favorite units Nobz and Warbosses are still gonna melt like ice cream in the sun in C&C.

 Galef wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The way they described Mob Rules is it's leadership equal to the number of models in the unit OR and nearby unit.

If you have 3 20 model units of boyz then even if you kill 10 out of one of the units then each unit is STILL leadership 20.

Those Killa Kans might have poor leadership, but if they get Mob Rules they just need to hang out with some boyz.

This is what I don't like. Mob rule is great for LD = unit size. That makes sense.
But the fact that it doesn't even matter how many you kill in a unit because a nearby unit gives them LD30? That's a bit weird to me.

So in your example, you have to kill 10 models FROM EACH UNIT before Morale even matters.
The one thing I do like about this is that it makes opponents have to think about which units they want to shoot at. That's always a good thing for game health.
And anything to help the poor Greenskins make a comeback, I'm all for.

-

It's not necessarily EACH unit. It is heavily based on range. It could be or the leadership of a unit within 4 inches. If that is the case you need to set them up very carefully to maintain leadership bonuses. Which also means mobility will become an issue. Especially on a table with a good amount of terrain.

There frankly isn't enough information to know HOW strong it will be in practical application. I have no doubt that it will mean any group of boyz being followed around by a character will be able to grab that characters leadership. But I doubt any one characters leadership will matter next to a giant blob of orks either.

I really like the what they did with da orks (from what i've seen) Especially the use of Leadership buffs from nearby units, not just characters. Combine this with the lack of template weapons and new transport rules.... ork horde armies look very viable to me now. We will have to wait and see of course because we have only seen a few still images of the the bigger motion picture that is 8th, so to speak.

This offers tons of list options to the ork player:
1 Big unit with several smaller units nearby to take advantage of the bigger units LD buff
A few Big units with good LD
or screw it and go fully mechanized with smaller units in general and hope the transports can soak enought damage to make it across without battleshock affecting them too much

I don't play orks, but am really happy for them. They are looking like they will be masters of the buff bubbles

 Galef wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
The way they described Mob Rules is it's leadership equal to the number of models in the unit OR and nearby unit.

If you have 3 20 model units of boyz then even if you kill 10 out of one of the units then each unit is STILL leadership 20.

Those Killa Kans might have poor leadership, but if they get Mob Rules they just need to hang out with some boyz.

This is what I don't like. Mob rule is great for LD = unit size. That makes sense.
But the fact that it doesn't even matter how many you kill in a unit because a nearby unit gives them LD30? That's a bit weird to me.

So in your example, you have to kill 10 models FROM EACH UNIT before Morale even matters.
The one thing I do like about this is that it makes opponents have to think about which units they want to shoot at. That's always a good thing for game health.
And anything to help the poor Greenskins make a comeback, I'm all for.

Come to think of it, what if it means that Ork units can use the unmodified LD of nearby units? So they could use a Warbosses LD10, but not the Mob Rule LD of a 30 Boys unit?
Literally you get to treat your LD as YOUR unit size, or the LD of an nearby unit (not THEIR unit size)

-

I don't have much of a problem with that, as it means that players can run a genuine green tide anyway they want rather than having to rely on that formation mega-squad we have right now to do so.

I would imagine that fighting orks in the future, the question "Do I try to nerf their leadership or kill something that's about to ruin my day" will become a legitimate question. Which is a good thing considering Ork mentality described in fluff.

pingu wrote:
Most of you are fixated on Fnp and Inv. saves, have you seen the teleport power??

You can teleport ANY infantry unit within 9 inches of an enemy unit (without scatter) and then charge in the same turn, even first !
That is completely bonkers. Can you imagine how hard will it be to play around that ? A large unit can engage more than one enemy unit if they deploy close to each other. If your enemy spreads his units across the deployment zone, you can simply teleport near one of them, kill it, and then they will have a hard time killing your teleported unit (because their units are far apart). Only way I can think of to defend myself from this is having cheap units surround my strong squishy units or just playing super heavies who dont care about ork mobs (Imperial knights for example).
I liked most of the new rules for 40k, but this kind of reliable deep striking without consequence (like we have seen with Mawloc) and ability to charge in the same turn seems really broken.

This is the normal reserve/deep strike/tunnel rule they've been discussing for a while now in the previews. I expect every army will have some way to do this and now we know orks will do it thru weirdboyz. I doubt it will seem as broken when we have the full rules - especially if every army has the capability.

Also note it's _more_ than 9 inches from any enemy unit. If your enemy spreads their units around their deployment zone it's going to be tough to find a 30-ork-sized hole that's 9 inches away from everything. That makes charges tough to pull off too. Not impossible, especially with CP re-rolls and what looks to be ork special options, but it's not automatic.