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Hey, I worked with what math I knew. My math is perfectly fine, it's my assumptions that are wrong. (And my rules-shooting pistols in CC is something I forgot.)
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Also seems like the list is actively encouraging people to take more than one warboss, which doesn't seem proppa at all.
Despite all that, I'm looking forward to getting hold of my books on Sat, throwing a list together, and getting stuck in. Has anyone seen any indications of suggested Power Levels for small-ish games yet?
I see it as the Warlord being the main warboss and the others are like sergeants to him. That's why I've got Warlord Blitzgrab and Warboss Snagjaw.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
momfreeek wrote: Kommandos can set up at the end of your movement phase *over* 9" away from any enemy model.
They can charge this turn. They need to get within 1", so they need a 9+. They can reroll their charge roll.
Overwatch doesn't remove models from the front. No movement modifiers for cover.
9+ on 2D6 = 27.8%
9+ on 2D6 with reroll = 47.9%
At 9pt per kommando with free nob, I'd try a coin flip for an infiltration charge.
Maybe I'm missing something?
You missed a few things.
Burnas are free for them so take the max amount of 2 not only are they decent shooting. They are or best melee weapnsn for boys. Add a big choppa to the nob. Keep them at min 5 man squads. This forces your opponent to over or undercommit shooting on them. They get +2 in cover which is a 4+ save and it works in overwatch. At 5 man squads with a ld7nob you need to take 3 casualties to fail on a 6 on morale roll to lose 1 boy. At 4 casualties you fail on a 5 or 6 but you only have 1 boy left so it you will rarely ever lose more then 1 boy to morale. Add snikrot for more lols with +1 to opponents morale and rerolling 1 in combat. Spam these 5man squads and force your opponent to charge burnas or be charged/shot next turn with a lot of damage. They should also be a big enough distraction so your other boys reach combat.
The deffkopta is a great unit w free bombs but don't take expensive rokkits take the big shoota it's significantly cheaper and allows you to spam more bombs and blades.
If you want to spam rokkits spam tankbustas 5 man units with 2 tankhammers (which are cheaper then rokkits), nob w big choppa (cheaper than rokkits or regular nob w big choppa) and 1 bomb squig. Means you can fit 2 squads in a trukk and take 5 casualties before morale kicks in. You have accurate shooting and cheap fast squads that decimate in melee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 15:19:32
momfreeek wrote: Kommandos can set up at the end of your movement phase *over* 9" away from any enemy model.
They can charge this turn. They need to get within 1", so they need a 9+. They can reroll their charge roll.
Overwatch doesn't remove models from the front. No movement modifiers for cover.
9+ on 2D6 = 27.8%
9+ on 2D6 with reroll = 47.9%
At 9pt per kommando with free nob, I'd try a coin flip for an infiltration charge.
Maybe I'm missing something?
You missed a few things.
Burnas are free for them so take the max amount of 2 not only are they decent shooting. They are or best melee weapnsn for boys. Add a big choppa to the nob. Keep them at min 5 man squads. This forces your opponent to over or undercommit shooting on them. They get +2 in cover which is a 4+ save and it works in overwatch. At 5 man squads with a ld7nob you need to take 3 casualties to fail on a 6 on morale roll to lose 1 boy. At 4 casualties you fail on a 5 or 6 but you only have 1 boy left so it you will rarely ever lose more then 1 boy to morale. Add snikrot for more lols with +1 to opponents morale and rerolling 1 in combat.
2 models will let you lose 1 Boy to morale. 2+6=8, 8-7=1.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
momfreeek wrote: Kommandos can set up at the end of your movement phase *over* 9" away from any enemy model.
They can charge this turn. They need to get within 1", so they need a 9+. They can reroll their charge roll.
Overwatch doesn't remove models from the front. No movement modifiers for cover.
9+ on 2D6 = 27.8%
9+ on 2D6 with reroll = 47.9%
At 9pt per kommando with free nob, I'd try a coin flip for an infiltration charge.
Maybe I'm missing something?
You missed a few things.
Burnas are free for them so take the max amount of 2 not only are they decent shooting. They are or best melee weapnsn for boys. Add a big choppa to the nob. Keep them at min 5 man squads. This forces your opponent to over or undercommit shooting on them. They get +2 in cover which is a 4+ save and it works in overwatch. At 5 man squads with a ld7nob you need to take 3 casualties to fail on a 6 on morale roll to lose 1 boy. At 4 casualties you fail on a 5 or 6 but you only have 1 boy left so it you will rarely ever lose more then 1 boy to morale. Add snikrot for more lols with +1 to opponents morale and rerolling 1 in combat.
but if you are in cover (other than ruins) u'll need to add 2" to your charge range. effectivly making it an 11" charge.
dont get me wrong. kommandoz are in my oppinion one of the best units for orks. but you dont need to sugarcoat it.
and they are a throwaway unit. ecxept them to die in the second round. also they are only good against certain targets. you cant take on full squads, big things or anny CC unit. not if you want them to be MSU.
momfreeek wrote: Kommandos can set up at the end of your movement phase *over* 9" away from any enemy model.
They can charge this turn. They need to get within 1", so they need a 9+. They can reroll their charge roll.
Overwatch doesn't remove models from the front. No movement modifiers for cover.
9+ on 2D6 = 27.8%
9+ on 2D6 with reroll = 47.9%
At 9pt per kommando with free nob, I'd try a coin flip for an infiltration charge.
Maybe I'm missing something?
You missed a few things.
Burnas are free for them so take the max amount of 2 not only are they decent shooting. They are or best melee weapnsn for boys. Add a big choppa to the nob. Keep them at min 5 man squads. This forces your opponent to over or undercommit shooting on them. They get +2 in cover which is a 4+ save and it works in overwatch. At 5 man squads with a ld7nob you need to take 3 casualties to fail on a 6 on morale roll to lose 1 boy. At 4 casualties you fail on a 5 or 6 but you only have 1 boy left so it you will rarely ever lose more then 1 boy to morale. Add snikrot for more lols with +1 to opponents morale and rerolling 1 in combat.
but if you are in cover (other than ruins) u'll need to add 2" to your charge range. effectivly making it an 11" charge.
dont get me wrong. kommandoz are in my oppinion one of the best units for orks. but you dont need to sugarcoat it.
and they are a throwaway unit. ecxept them to die in the second round. also they are only good against certain targets. you cant take on full squads, big things or anny CC unit. not if you want them to be MSU.
yup sorry forgot charge in cover however who plays with cover other then ruins. It's hard enough making/buying cover that's not ruins. Things like forest are a pain to play through and craters aren't that common.
As the guy above said I screwed up my math w the morale but it is still usually 1 boy flees.
Tankbustas and cheap deffkoptas are also beast this edition as are trukks for tankbustas or other melee units.
Stormboys are one of the best objective grabbers and independent of warbosses with out the need for them to be close for waagh. Add zagstruk to make any units close by basically fearless and add some beatstick melee.
Orks are good this edition we just have a bit of junk and a lot of stuff that needs to be played a certain way. Like mega nobs are slow as crap and at first I thought just use the jump to get them into range but at 4in movement w the need for s warboss just to get the same movement as last edition you kinda need them in trukks just so they can disembark 3in get a 4in move and then a 2d6 charge.
momfreeek wrote: Kommandos can set up at the end of your movement phase *over* 9" away from any enemy model.
They can charge this turn. They need to get within 1", so they need a 9+. They can reroll their charge roll.
Overwatch doesn't remove models from the front. No movement modifiers for cover.
9+ on 2D6 = 27.8%
9+ on 2D6 with reroll = 47.9%
At 9pt per kommando with free nob, I'd try a coin flip for an infiltration charge.
Maybe I'm missing something?
You missed a few things.
Burnas are free for them so take the max amount of 2 not only are they decent shooting. They are or best melee weapnsn for boys. Add a big choppa to the nob. Keep them at min 5 man squads. This forces your opponent to over or undercommit shooting on them. They get +2 in cover which is a 4+ save and it works in overwatch. At 5 man squads with a ld7nob you need to take 3 casualties to fail on a 6 on morale roll to lose 1 boy. At 4 casualties you fail on a 5 or 6 but you only have 1 boy left so it you will rarely ever lose more then 1 boy to morale. Add snikrot for more lols with +1 to opponents morale and rerolling 1 in combat. Spam these 5man squads and force your opponent to charge burnas or be charged/shot next turn with a lot of damage. They should also be a big enough distraction so your other boys reach combat.
The deffkopta is a great unit w free bombs but don't take expensive rokkits take the big shoota it's significantly cheaper and allows you to spam more bombs and blades.
If you want to spam rokkits spam tankbustas 5 man units with 2 tankhammers (which are cheaper then rokkits), nob w big choppa (cheaper than rokkits or regular nob w big choppa) and 1 bomb squig. Means you can fit 2 squads in a trukk and take 5 casualties before morale kicks in. You have accurate shooting and cheap fast squads that decimate in melee.
Free burnas! That looks like an oversight.
I'm really looking forward to using nobs and flash gits now. Ammo runts taking ablative hits that don't count towards morale is great. I think it'll look great on the table too with all these servile grots following the nobs around. Thats all my grots getting re-tasked.
Nobs w power stabbas are great (toss on a cheap kustom shoota on the nob to use rerolls from ammo runt) and they can make a decent melee unit in a trukk but I feel I can do the same thing better with other choices. Basic boyz or dedicated units that are fairly cheap now. I do love the nob w waaagh banner though as it's cheap enough and helps w morale or assault blobs.
But my point is there is definitely some competitive options for orks although I'm still not sold that it's going to beat the imperial soup and I need to see what forgeworld does.
But ya I'm already planning to spam 20x kommandos, 20x tankbustas in trukks and 15x stormboyz with at least one big 30 boy blob maybe 2 sharing character buffs. Although I'm going to need to spam 2 vanguard detachments to use all those elites.
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
Tankbustas and cheap deffkoptas are also beast this edition as are trukks for tankbustas or other melee units.
how are deffkoptaz cheap? they cost 55 a piece plus 28 points for the rokkits... thats 83 points per kopta. if you want a killsaw, thats another 28 points so 111 points total.
a trukk is more resilient than before... but so are the transports of all armies. two dedicated antivehilce weapons can still take out a trukk in one volley, not likely but still possible (as it was in 7th)
EDIT:
pointless mathhammer the 3rd
to blow up a trukk in 7th: example vs common eldar weaponary, ie lance, scatter, catapults
heavy: two shots with s8 ap 2 3+ to hit, 3+ to pen, 5+ to blow up 5+ cover save -> 2*2/3*2/3*1/3*2/3 = 16/81 or 19,7% medium: 4 shots s6 no ap 4*2/3*1/2*2/3 = 8/9 or 0,89 hullpoints lost small: 10shots s4 10*2/3*1/6*2/3 = 20/27 or 0,74 HP lost
to detroy a trukk in 8th two shots with s8 ap -2 d6dmg 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, 6+ armour, 2x5+ for damage -> 2*2/3*2/3*5/6*1/3 = 20/131 or 29,4% 4shots s6 ap 0 1 dmg 4*2/3*1/2*1/2 = 2/3 or 0,67 wounds small: 10shots s4 10*2/3*1/6*1/2 = 20/36 or 0,56 Wounds
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 17:38:30
Tankbustas and cheap deffkoptas are also beast this edition as are trukks for tankbustas or other melee units.
how are deffkoptaz cheap?
they cost 55 a piece plus 28 points for the rokkits... thats 83 points per kopta. if you want a killsaw, thats another 28 points so 111 points total.
a trukk is more resilient than before... but so are the transports of all armies. two dedicated antivehilce weapons can still take out a trukk in one volley, not likely but still possible (as it was in 7th)
EDIT:
pointless mathhammer the 3rd
to blow up a trukk in 7th:
example vs common eldar weaponary, ie lance, scatter, catapults
heavy: two shots with s8 ap 2
3+ to hit, 3+ to pen, 5+ to blow up 5+ cover save -> 2*2/3*2/3*1/3*2/3 = 16/81 or 19,7%
medium: 4 shots s6 no ap 4*2/3*1/2*2/3 = 8/9 or 0,89 hullpoints lost
small: 10shots s4
10*2/3*1/6*2/3 = 20/27 or 0,74 HP lost
to detroy a trukk in 8th
two shots with s8 ap -2 d6dmg 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, 6+ armour, 2x5+ for damage -> 2*2/3*2/3*5/6*1/3 = 20/131 or 29,4%
4shots s6 ap 0 1 dmg 4*2/3*1/2*1/2 = 2/3 or 0,67 wounds
small: 10shots s4
10*2/3*1/6*1/2 = 20/36 or 0,56 Wounds
Drop the 28pt kopta rokkit and take the 6pt twinbig shoota. Use deffkoptas to drop bombs harass w the big shoota and charge into melee. That's 61pts. You can almost get 2 of them for 1 with a killsaw.
You are looking at the trukk wrong it's NOT suppose to survive in a firefight.
You want the trukk simply to deliver your suicide units into comba range and then charge and actually deal damage which most armies transports can't do in combat so that your suicide unit can get into combat and not take overwatch.
For instance take 2x 5 man squads of tankbustas with 2 rokkits, 2x tankhammers, nob w big choppa and a bomb squig. Both in a trukk with wrecking ball. If the trukk explodes you need to take 5 casualties before you even roll for morale. If it doesn't you disembark 3in forward then move and charge with the trukk hopefully get into combat to block overwatch. Shoot with your 2x rokkits and 1x bomb squig per squad and charge with your 2x 1d3 mortal wounds and 3x str6 ap-1 per squad. If the trukk blows up it can also deal mortal wounds as well. But the point is cheap target overload. Tankbustas are cheaper then basic boys at base. The tankhammers are cheaper than the rokkit, the big choppa is even cheaper. You can fit 2 squads per trukk and spam a lot of tankbustas into your enemy lines. The trukk isn't meant to survive it just needs to deliver your boys into combat and then charge do some damage and die.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 20:32:49
A bit sad I still can't have a lad in Mega Armour carrying the Waaagh banner, to match the rest of my warboss' retinue. Sure, there's no model for it but that didn't stop them including painboyz on bikes.
JNAProductions wrote: Hey, I worked with what math I knew. My math is perfectly fine, it's my assumptions that are wrong. (And my rules-shooting pistols in CC is something I forgot.)
Your math is fine except where totally wrong as was proved, and if you cant get a point cost right of an Ork Boy you didn't even make it to the first hurdle you fell over the starting block and your credibility is ruined
JNAProductions wrote: Hey, I worked with what math I knew. My math is perfectly fine, it's my assumptions that are wrong. (And my rules-shooting pistols in CC is something I forgot.)
Your math is fine except where totally wrong as was proved, and if you cant get a point cost right of an Ork Boy you didn't even make it to the first hurdle you fell over the starting block and your credibility is ruined
My assumptions were wrong. My math was fine. I'll freely admit what I wrote ain't useful, because I had the points cost wrong. But don't tell me I'm stupid because I made one mistake.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
JNAProductions wrote: Hey, I worked with what math I knew. My math is perfectly fine, it's my assumptions that are wrong. (And my rules-shooting pistols in CC is something I forgot.)
Your math is fine except where totally wrong as was proved, and if you cant get a point cost right of an Ork Boy you didn't even make it to the first hurdle you fell over the starting block and your credibility is ruined
My assumptions were wrong. My math was fine. I'll freely admit what I wrote ain't useful, because I had the points cost wrong. But don't tell me I'm stupid because I made one mistake.
You are looking at the trukk wrong it's NOT suppose to survive in a firefight. You want the trukk simply to deliver your suicide units into comba range and then charge and actually deal damage which most armies transports can't do in combat so that your suicide unit can get into combat and not take overwatch. For instance take 2x 5 man squads of tankbustas with 2 rokkits, 2x tankhammers, nob w big choppa and a bomb squig. Both in a trukk with wrecking ball. If the trukk explodes you need to take 5 casualties before you even roll for morale. If it doesn't you disembark 3in forward then move and charge with the trukk hopefully get into combat to block overwatch. Shoot with your 2x rokkits and 1x bomb squig per squad and charge with your 2x 1d3 mortal wounds and 3x str6 ap-1 per squad. If the trukk blows up it can also deal mortal wounds as well. But the point is cheap target overload.[u] Tankbustas are cheaper then basic boys at base. The tankhammers are cheaper than the rokkit, the big choppa is even cheaper. You can fit 2 squads per trukk and spam a lot of tankbustas into your enemy lines. The trukk isn't meant to survive it just needs to deliver your boys into combat and then charge do some damage and die.
that unit costs 281 points by the way... really pricy for a throwaway unit... and for what? couple 5+ to hit shots, ONE TIME 2xd3 mortal wounds and six big choppa attacks??? oh and the mighty wrecking ball with 3 str 6 attacks that hit on 5+...
sorry mate nearly 300 points for this is huge gak.
tankbustaz are there because they can hunt tanks with their rokkits. no other unit can bring as much rokkity power than bustaz. their biggest buff is the reroll to hit... giving em a tankhammer (which was a joke before and is even more now... what happened? orks got so stupid they forgot to put the bomb on a stick? instead they now just allah akbahr themselves while hitting you with a bomb in the hand????)
also as i said earlier a trukk has gotten alot slower. its now 12" +d6" as before it was 12"+12" not so good for delivering units into CC. the save bet is to have them zip around and shoot from the trukk. i ran a trukk with 5 lootaz and 5 tankbustaz yesterday. not bad but not amazing either.
but please stop telling me how good ork AV units are. i made a list before comparing the AV units of several armies and their price increase from 7th to 8th. orks took the biggest hit. yes tankbustaz got a boost as they are essentially twinlinked now and a rokkit does 3 dmg. but so did all the other armies AV units.. just at a lower cost.
Drop the 28pt kopta rokkit and take the 6pt twinbig shoota. Use deffkoptas to drop bombs harass w the big shoota and charge into melee. That's 61pts. You can almost get 2 of them for 1 with a killsaw.
this on the other hand is good news... didnt see the shoota option on em.
EDIT: the twin shoota is 14 points not 6. but they could take KmB for 9. clocking in at a total of 64 points... not bad for one time mortal wound drop on 5's. but not amazing either
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 00:57:53
So for a Big Mek in Mega Armour it says it is equipt with a Kustom Mega Blaster and a Power Klaw, but can exchange its Kustom Mega Blasta with a Shooty Weapon or a Killsaw.
Does that mean we can't get a Big Mek with double killsaws for the +1 attack?
Also, completely unrelated, if you inflict multiple wounds with a weapon that does D3 or D6 damage on a unit with multiple multi-wound models, do you need to roll the damage dice one by one since the damage doesn't spill over?
tilds wrote: So for a Big Mek in Mega Armour it says it is equipt with a Kustom Mega Blaster and a Power Klaw, but can exchange its Kustom Mega Blasta with a Shooty Weapon or a Killsaw.
Does that mean we can't get a Big Mek with double killsaws for the +1 attack?
Also, completely unrelated, if you inflict multiple wounds with a weapon that does D3 or D6 damage on a unit with multiple multi-wound models, do you need to roll the damage dice one by one since the damage doesn't spill over?
tilds wrote: So for a Big Mek in Mega Armour it says it is equipt with a Kustom Mega Blaster and a Power Klaw, but can exchange its Kustom Mega Blasta with a Shooty Weapon or a Killsaw.
Does that mean we can't get a Big Mek with double killsaws for the +1 attack?
Also, completely unrelated, if you inflict multiple wounds with a weapon that does D3 or D6 damage on a unit with multiple multi-wound models, do you need to roll the damage dice one by one since the damage doesn't spill over?
you don't get +1 attacks now for having 2 CC weapons. Also if you inflict multiple wounds with a multi damage weapon you can roll all the D3s or D6s together and just dish them out to kill models individually but as you mentioned they don't spill over to other models.
So if you roll 3 wounds that do D6 damage and your targeting a unit filled with 3wound models then you roll all 3 dice and use them to kill models one by one until you run out of dice.
Seems like no double kill saws, I was disappointed that the Warboss in Mega Armor cannot take them at all. Given that there is no rule for extra attacks with 2 power klaws, his options are various shooting weapons, or a big choppa. Seems like very limited options to me.
Yes you roll damage dice 1 at a time. SO it would be
1.Roll to hit
2.roll to wound
3.roll saves
4.allocate first unsaved wound
5. Roll damage
6.) Repeat 4 and 5
tilds wrote: So for a Big Mek in Mega Armour it says it is equipt with a Kustom Mega Blaster and a Power Klaw, but can exchange its Kustom Mega Blasta with a Shooty Weapon or a Killsaw.
Does that mean we can't get a Big Mek with double killsaws for the +1 attack?
Also, completely unrelated, if you inflict multiple wounds with a weapon that does D3 or D6 damage on a unit with multiple multi-wound models, do you need to roll the damage dice one by one since the damage doesn't spill over?
you don't get +1 attacks now for having 2 CC weapons. Also if you inflict multiple wounds with a multi damage weapon you can roll all the D3s or D6s together and just dish them out to kill models individually but as you mentioned they don't spill over to other models.
So if you roll 3 wounds that do D6 damage and your targeting a unit filled with 3wound models then you roll all 3 dice and use them to kill models one by one until you run out of dice.
The kill saw specifically says you get +1 attack for having 2 in the mega nob entry.
And no you cannot roll damage dice first and then allocate, that makes a huge difference. If you have a unit of 3 wound models and roll 1, 3, 2 for damage, it matters the order of damage because if you allocate a wound roll a 1, then allocate to the same model and roll a 3 you lose a wound of damage, then roll a 2 on the last damage you kill only 1 model. If you roll all 3 then allocate you put 3 damage on 2 separate models and kill 2 models.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:36:26
es you roll damage dice 1 at a time. SO it would be
1.Roll to hit
2.roll to wound
3.roll saves
4.allocate first unsaved wound
5. Roll damage
6.) Repeat 4 and 5
And no you cannot roll damage dice first and then allocate, that makes a huge difference. If you have a unit of 3 wound models and roll 1, 3, 2 for damage, it matters the order of damage because if you allocate a wound roll a 1, then allocate to the same model and roll a 3 you lose a wound of damage, then roll a 2 on the last damage you kill only 1 model. If you roll all 3 then allocate you put 3 damage on 2 separate models and kill 2 models.
Let's recreate for clarity:
1. Roll to hit, you hit x times.
2. Roll to wound, you wound 3 times.
3. Wounds have to be allocated before they can be saved, (this being out of order is where the confusion lies)
4. Wound 1, fail save, roll damage, does 1 damage, wound, whatever... (it is called damage, but you remove wound, really clunky wording really)
5. Wound 2, fail save, roll damage, does 3 damage, wound, whatever, rules state that any previously damaged model MUST be allocated any further wounds first in an unit. So remove model that took previous damage, lose one point of damage.
6. Wound 3, fail save, roll damage, does 2 damage, wound, whatever, unit now has 1 model at 1 wound left, 1 model at 3 wounds.
In short, Saves are made against Wounds, unsaved Wounds cause Damage. So get hit by something that does 6 Damage, you only get to make ONE Save, if you fail, you take 6 Damage. You do not get to make 6 Saves for each point of Damage caused. Hit are not Wounds, Wounds are not Damage...
So the battlewagon has Mobile Fortress which allows it to ignore penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.
It is also Open topped which says, among other things, that any restrictions and modifiers which applies to the battlewagon also applies to the embarked units.
Does that mean it can drive around with a squad of Flash GItz that are shooting at BS 4+ ?
tilds wrote: So the battlewagon has Mobile Fortress which allows it to ignore penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.
It is also Open topped which says, among other things, that any restrictions and modifiers which applies to the battlewagon also applies to the embarked units.
Does that mean it can drive around with a squad of Flash GItz that are shooting at BS 4+ ?
that is correct! and you can even get ammo runts to work too for rerolls
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
tilds wrote: So the battlewagon has Mobile Fortress which allows it to ignore penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.
It is also Open topped which says, among other things, that any restrictions and modifiers which applies to the battlewagon also applies to the embarked units.
Does that mean it can drive around with a squad of Flash GItz that are shooting at BS 4+ ?
that is correct! and you can even get ammo runts to work too for rerolls
Yes, but they will count towards the transport capacity right?
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
tilds wrote: So the battlewagon has Mobile Fortress which allows it to ignore penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.
It is also Open topped which says, among other things, that any restrictions and modifiers which applies to the battlewagon also applies to the embarked units.
Does that mean it can drive around with a squad of Flash GItz that are shooting at BS 4+ ?
that is correct! and you can even get ammo runts to work too for rerolls
Yes, but they will count towards the transport capacity right?
Yeah, ammo runts and etc count towards the troop cap, but they also count as wounds, which means they die first. I say fill a battlewagon with lootas and tankbustas and shoot the crap out of whatever needs to be shot. Honestly I predict that battlewagons are going to become mobile cover for our shooty units.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
