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That story of what happens on Baal. Looks like 8th won't have good background writers either.

Bobby G somehow crosses the rift which would be without the aid of a navigator and gets an entire fleet in orbit around Baal at the last moment. Would have been a better story to just have them wiped and the fleet getting there late, then working to rebuild the blood angels who would likely be overcome by the black rage but perhaps more stable cause they're marines and that's how this stuff works in 40k. Honestly the marines seem to invoke deus ex machina more than the adeptus mechanicus does.

 chalkobob wrote:
So assault weapons can run (ahem advance*) and shoot at a -1 to hit penalty? That's interesting.

Also interesting: you can now charge after firing rapid fire or even heavy weapons, the only actions that prevent charging now are Advance and Fall Back.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Speaking of which.. Why is the Stompa on the Games Workshop store in the Heavy Support section now instead of Lord of War?

That is nuts. Less power creep than power leak.

Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

 Talamare wrote:
Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

Yeah... I try to remain open-minded, but that was, objectively, a poorly set up excuse to hamfist primaris marines into the blood angels at the expense of throwing the tyranids under the bus again. I really hope that Roboute starts failing some missions as to not make him the most boring, predictable, and overused deus ex machina in the setting.

 Talamare wrote:
Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

yeah, the one deus ex machina may have been ok, but doubling down on it was aweful. I maintain the story could, COULD work, if one of the better black library writers made a trilogy of it.

Book 1 details the start of the battle the holding action, with the climax being the Battle of the dome of angels, (where a character whom was perhaps a major protagionist story dies, to show us the stakes clearly) the book ending as the tyranids begin to drain Baal and it's moons of all life.

Book 2: The Last stand of the Blood angels, more fighting etc, as the blood angels are slowly but surely pushed back to their fortress monestary. things are looking bleak, and we get some fantastic insights into the mentality of the blood angels and their sucessors as they realize that, this is it, lots of chances to really get a look in the heads of blood angel characters as they stare down the reality of death, not only theirs, but their tradtions etc, it ends with the warp rift opening up,

Book 3: you see some combat going on and the blood angels realizing that despite the dissapperance of the fleet they're STILL gonna die, byh about the third chapter the Imperial reinforcements arrive, and victory appers possiable. the crusade relives pressure on the fortress monestary, and Gulliman meets Dante and the other BA chapter masters, and perhaps introduces a primaris blood angels sucessor chapter master from the latest founding, the novel ends with Gulliman visiting his brothers tomb, and then giving a speach to the remaining blood angels where he praises their skill at arms, praising them as the true heros of this battle, as he, and the entire indomatus crusade take to the knee and bow to the remaining Sons of Sanguinis, out of respect for their courage and skill at arms. (that ending would I think immediatly take the stiong off the ending of the campaign, blood angels wouldn't be the guys who had to be bailed out of defending their home, instead they'd be the guys whose bad ass defense of their home world humbled even a damned primarch)

Well the only memorable loss the ultras have had since 4th was that company trazyn threw out of his necron pokeball, so it's pretty unlikely Bobby G will really lose anything. Closest we're probably getting was that thing with the parade.

 chalkobob wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

Yeah... I try to remain open-minded, but that was, objectively, a poorly set up excuse to hamfist primaris marines into the blood angels at the expense of throwing the tyranids under the bus again. I really hope that Roboute starts failing some missions as to not make him the most boring, predictable, and overused deus ex machina in the setting.

I dunno, at the same time you have him run the risk of becoming a joke character, which he really shouldn't be, Gulliman should be a character whom shows up rarely, but always at decisive moments. and he should never be beaten by anything other then superior numbers (where it should be made clear any other commander would have performed much worse) or when against a truel;y capable foe, such as a deamon primarch, or maybe abbaddon. (letting Abbaddon score a victory agaisnt Gulliman might actually be a good way to give him soem serious cred again)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n0t_u wrote:
Well the only memorable loss the ultras have had since 4th was that company trazyn threw out of his necron pokeball, so it's pretty unlikely Bobby G will really lose anything. Closest we're probably getting was that thing with the parade.

1st Battle of Damnos,
The Battle for Mcragge's honor (you know where Gulliman and his company got put in chains)

sure it's a short list, but it's a short list the number of BATTLES the Ultramarines have fought since 4th edition.

1st and second battle of Damnos
the various GS3 battles,
Black Reach.

I missing anything?

 chalkobob wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

Yeah... I try to remain open-minded, but that was, objectively, a poorly set up excuse to hamfist primaris marines into the blood angels at the expense of throwing the tyranids under the bus again. I really hope that Roboute starts failing some missions as to not make him the most boring, predictable, and overused deus ex machina in the setting.

The worst part is that Rowboat didn't even do very much.
They made it painfully clear that it was actually Chaos who saved the day, not Rowboat.

They could have replaced Rowboat with anything else, since he literally only cleaned up and killed off a tiny amount of stragglers that remained.
Compound that with the last sentence or so; that basically made the entire event pointless...

SO AFTER THE BATTLE THAT LITERALLY COMPLETELY WRECKED THEM AND LIKE... NEARLY MADE THEM EXTINCT FOREVER...
THE BATTLE WITH SO MANY ENEMY FORCES THAT WOULD HAVE LIKE... TOTALLY DEVOURED THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE...
THEY REBUILT AND CLEANED UP IN LIKE... 2 HOURS, KAY BYE

They should have said hammed it up a little and said like and "Rowboat personally showed BAs how to make Numars, Even had his fleet that was bigger than da planet work on the reconstruction."
Tho, nah we just get "They rebuilt, the end."

keep in mind "they finished off the tyranids and then rebuilt" really doesn't likely capture the entireity of what happened. I mean one could call the entire pacific war post midway, a "mop up action" I'm exaggerating a LITTLE, but not a whole lot

BrianDavion wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

Yeah... I try to remain open-minded, but that was, objectively, a poorly set up excuse to hamfist primaris marines into the blood angels at the expense of throwing the tyranids under the bus again. I really hope that Roboute starts failing some missions as to not make him the most boring, predictable, and overused deus ex machina in the setting.

I dunno, at the same time you have him run the risk of becoming a joke character, which he really shouldn't be, Gulliman should be a character whom shows up rarely, but always at decisive moments. and he should never be beaten by anything other then superior numbers (where it should be made clear any other commander would have performed much worse) or when against a truel;y capable foe, such as a deamon primarch, or maybe abbaddon. (letting Abbaddon score a victory agaisnt Gulliman might actually be a good way to give him soem serious cred again)

The problem here is if he is a joke by ever being outsmarted or simply encountering a variable that would be impossible to predict (which happens even to the greatest minds) and failing, than by extention, he makes every other character (that isn't a primarch or possibly abbadon level) a joke by existing. Which either requires every faction getting a primarch equivalent, which is contrived (and completely deflates the characters that existed before the return of the primarchs), or by having all other factions being diminished, in the fluff, by not having a worthy adversary. Even the greatest minds fail sometimes, and personally, having guilliman as some unstoppable force in a setting where races have technology to blow up planets, stars and, in the case of necrons, the entire galaxy is not only trite, but predictable to the point of cringeyness. I don't mind him being a bad ass, but if his appearance is always (or close to always) a prelude to an imperial victory that will get old (read: super-boring) fast.

 Talamare wrote:
Blood Angel story was TERRIBLE

Do their writers actually know how to setup a story line?

Because this is what I read... You're in trouble

JK DEUS EX MACHINA...

Actually, know what? You're still in trouble

HAHAHAHA! GOT YA AGAIN!!! DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!

They haven't done much good in quite some time, IMO if you can't advance the timeline in a well thought out and well done way...then stop before you damage it beyond repair. 40k was fine as a setting and backdrop for models and gaming. I don't understand the sudden need to bring back primarchs and have all of these rapid story advancements over the course of only one year. I know they are trying to reinvigorate the gw brand and bring in sales, but in the long term if the setting is wrecked then it's not gonna do much good.

I feel like people are forgetting that Guilliman got punked by Fateweaver in Rise of the Primarch and had to be bailed out by the Harlequins. We literally saw him lose in the book where he was resurrected.

I love the rules so far but 2 things worry me.

1. High level psykers have a HUGE mathmatical advantage over lower level psykers with how DtW works. This will be fine if each level is costed accordingly and increases significantly by level. Otherwise a lvl3 or 4 psyker can legitimately shut down an unlimited amount of level 1 psykers. Again - fine if it's costed appropriately.
Their advantages:
-Extremely likely to shut down multiple lower level psykers for the vast majority of the game.
-Higher chance of casting powers.
-Higher chance of getting to the 2nd tier of a spell (see Smite)
-Highly unlikely to be shut down by a lower level psyker.

These advantages need to be represented by something far greater than the 50pt difference between a lvl1 and a lvl3 that we see in 7th. If not 8th will be an edition of high level psyker s with no low levels to be seen.

2nd point is that since vehicles can move after models have embarked, units suffer a lot from a destroyed transport, and there is no side or rear values anymore, it will be advantageous for any passengers to just simply start the game hiding behind a vehicle that is side on then just jump in T1. So 8th could become an edition of the sideways set up transports on deployment.

Everything else is hunkydory! 4 point powerswords :-D!

 Robin5t wrote:
I feel like people are forgetting that Guilliman got punked by Fateweaver in Rise of the Primarch and had to be bailed out by the Harlequins. We literally saw him lose in the book where he was resurrected.

I didn't forget, but that was a minor set back, that was ultimately overcome, in a campaign that was, in essence, one deus ex machina after the other, until the "good guys" ultimately prevailed. Almost as though superman Roboute and the eldar plot-armour superfriends triumphed against impossible odds, which could have been remotely interesting, if the outcome wasn't so obvious that Steevie Wonder could have seen it coming.

 chalkobob wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
I feel like people are forgetting that Guilliman got punked by Fateweaver in Rise of the Primarch and had to be bailed out by the Harlequins. We literally saw him lose in the book where he was resurrected.

I didn't forget, but that was a minor set back, that was ultimately overcome, in a campaign that was, in essence, one deus ex machina after the other, until the "good guys" ultimately prevailed. Almost as though superman Roboute and the eldar plot-armour superfriends triumphed against impossible odds, which could have been remotely interesting, if the outcome wasn't so obvious that Steevie Wonder could have seen it coming.

right because losing god knows how many space marines, every guardsman, and a GOD DAMNED GLORINA CLASS FLAG SHIP, merely a set back
...

BrianDavion wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
I feel like people are forgetting that Guilliman got punked by Fateweaver in Rise of the Primarch and had to be bailed out by the Harlequins. We literally saw him lose in the book where he was resurrected.

I didn't forget, but that was a minor set back, that was ultimately overcome, in a campaign that was, in essence, one deus ex machina after the other, until the "good guys" ultimately prevailed. Almost as though superman Roboute and the eldar plot-armour superfriends triumphed against impossible odds, which could have been remotely interesting, if the outcome wasn't so obvious that Steevie Wonder could have seen it coming.

right because losing god knows how many space marines, every guardsman, and a GOD DAMNED GLORINA CLASS FLAG SHIP, merely a set back
...

Unless it has a noticeable effect on their efficacy moving forward, or actually prevents them from victory in the campaign, than it is literally a set back.

The rules look cool and everything but I only have one question.

Where did they put my Hive Fleet???

Leviathan is just sucked into the Warp???


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
I love the rules so far but 2 things worry me.

1. High level psykers have a HUGE mathmatical advantage over lower level psykers with how DtW works. This will be fine if each level is costed accordingly and increases significantly by level. Otherwise a lvl3 or 4 psyker can legitimately shut down an unlimited amount of level 1 psykers. Again - fine if it's costed appropriately.
Their advantages:
-Extremely likely to shut down multiple lower level psykers for the vast majority of the game.
-Higher chance of casting powers.
-Higher chance of getting to the 2nd tier of a spell (see Smite)
-Highly unlikely to be shut down by a lower level psyker.

These advantages need to be represented by something far greater than the 50pt difference between a lvl1 and a lvl3 that we see in 7th. If not 8th will be an edition of high level psyker s with no low levels to be se:-D!

I'm not seeing where you're getting any of this. The psykers level determines how many Powers they get and how many times they can deny the witch. That's it. I don't get why you think that they can cast better or denying more times then they have levels.

They all have the same chance of casting and deny. It's a 2d6 for both for everyone.

The new rules seem solid. There are a few changes in there that might take a while to adjust to. Now units can charge different units to the one they have been shooting at. Rapid Fire and Heavy Weapons can fire and charge now. It does shake up the game quite a bit.

Also no barrage or indirect fire, unless I missed that. Friendly units block line of sight.

All very good.

Regarding the background, I think people are forgetting just how big the Hive Fleet was...

I'll leave this here as reminder..

 Gloomfang wrote:
The rules look cool and everything but I only have one question.

Where did they put my Hive Fleet???

Leviathan is just sucked into the Warp???


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
I love the rules so far but 2 things worry me.

1. High level psykers have a HUGE mathmatical advantage over lower level psykers with how DtW works. This will be fine if each level is costed accordingly and increases significantly by level. Otherwise a lvl3 or 4 psyker can legitimately shut down an unlimited amount of level 1 psykers. Again - fine if it's costed appropriately.
Their advantages:
-Extremely likely to shut down multiple lower level psykers for the vast majority of the game.
-Higher chance of casting powers.
-Higher chance of getting to the 2nd tier of a spell (see Smite)
-Highly unlikely to be shut down by a lower level psyker.

These advantages need to be represented by something far greater than the 50pt difference between a lvl1 and a lvl3 that we see in 7th. If not 8th will be an edition of high level psyker s with no low levels to be se:-D!

I'm not seeing where you're getting any of this. The psykers level determines how many Powers they get and how many times they can deny the witch. That's it. I don't get why you think that they can cast better or denying more times then they have levels.

They all have the same chance of casting and deny. It's a 2d6 for both for everyone.

True, looking straight at the rules again. I had it in my head that you added your power level to the roll, since that's what we gathered from the psychic phase leak. Reading it again that doesn't seem the case. That is much better if so.

A few little disappointments. Like if you fail your charge you stand around doing nothing. Turns out you don't move your charge distance like people thought.

 Lance845 wrote:
A few little disappointments. Like if you fail your charge you stand around doing nothing. Turns out you don't move your charge distance like people thought.

True, but now charges can be made from outside a weapons range so it can't fire in Overwatch, namely flamers. It might be a stretch to get to combat, but still going to help against units with a lot of flamers.

Woah, woah... stop right there. I know that Hellblaster Squad is gonna be expensive piece (200 points for 5 models) but they have nothing like Gets Hot!, only OPTIONAL supercharged thingy. What the absolute... fudge?

I love the new army building method : )

Its quite a lot of fun trying to fit your idea of an army into it while also trying to max out the fluff/command points

 Kandela wrote:
Woah, woah... stop right there. I know that Hellblaster Squad is gonna be expensive piece (200 points for 5 models) but they have nothing like Gets Hot!, only OPTIONAL supercharged thingy. What the absolute... fudge?

That is how the new plasma rules work. In the news thread, the leaked the plasma guns and pistols that the Death Guard use. Same rules. S7 AP-2 with no risk, S8 with a 1/6 chance of die like a goober.

 oldzoggy wrote:
I love the new army building method : )

Its quite a lot of fun trying to fit your idea of an army into it while also trying to max out the fluff/command points

I'm totally having a same situation here, before new edition comes, my projects were;
- Imperium (from 10k upgrading to 15k+)
- Tyranids living tide (about 200 models)
- a very distant project of Ultramarines First Company (from apocalypse, consisting over 100 models)

But this new way allows nicely Astra Militarum Super-Heavy tanks into my projects

The new plasma rules have me thinking about Dawn of War 3 and how somewhat similar they are.
I wonder if we will see more Dawn of War 3 things comes to light in 8th edition.

A few things stand out to me:

First, being able to see through models in your own unit is the same as every edition I've played. It does NOT mean that your own models from other units block LOS automatically (though they could). If you can still see the enemy to some capacity, you can see them.

Another thing I noticed is that it appears that units are no longer restricted to charging units that they shoot at, and they can charge after firing Rapid Fire or Heavy weapons.
So a unit can rapid fire it's Bolters at unit A, but then charge unit B.

These read like the quick rules as opposed to the main rules. I'm going there's more details in the CRB

 Shadelkan wrote:
These read like the quick rules as opposed to the main rules. I'm going there's more details in the CRB

Those details will be on the more competitive style of play, i.e. points, competitive missions, etc. There will be no difference in the Phases between the free rules and the printed rulebook.