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No idea, you can't see the ppm cost for Inceptors. Their guns are 7pts each though.

I don't think the PL are drastically off from the points value. OP just doesn't understand the Rubrics aren't the kind of models you want to soak fire from an alpha strike unit like Inceptors.

It's a silly thread. Put the Rubrics in a Rhino already.

Technically 20 points would still be within the range I gave.

Of course I wasn't actually expecting my guess to be that close, but I am greatly amused that it was.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
They're 18 points a model, you say? Well I sure hope somebody picks up that phone...

18ppm with no wargear. Likely aout 20-22 with an Inferno Bolter.

And maybe it,s too much DBZ Abridged but I feel like calling you Cooler all of a sudden....

They always have an inferno bolter......

BUT I fething CALLLEDD IT

Go look at the points costs list again. For anyone who is not a named special character it is given "without wargear". Which means that they could be more expensive once given a gun.

Yeah no......Upgrades cost things. This is default wargear for the unit. Look at their sheet.

Yoyoyo wrote:
No idea, you can't see the ppm cost for Inceptors. Their guns are 7pts each though.

I don't think the PL are drastically off from the points value. OP just doesn't understand the Rubrics aren't the kind of models you want to soak fire from an alpha strike unit like Inceptors.

It's a silly thread. Put the Rubrics in a Rhino already.

Either it is 39 ppm with basic wargear, or 53 ppm with two assault bolters. Either way, Inceptors cost twice as much as Rubric Marines.

 Luciferian wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
They will cost more.

For comparison, Hellblasters are 23ppm but their guns cost 17ppm.

By that logic Inceptors will cost 39 points plus whatever their weapons cost, no?

Indeed they are. Why else would I be pointing out that they're 53 points fully equipped?

Cost of the model is without wargear or options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:
No idea, you can't see the ppm cost for Inceptors. Their guns are 7pts each though.

I don't think the PL are drastically off from the points value. OP just doesn't understand the Rubrics aren't the kind of models you want to soak fire from an alpha strike unit like Inceptors.

It's a silly thread. Put the Rubrics in a Rhino already.

Rhinos are at least 4PL now... (70 points with nothing on it).

Rubrics are better fielded in larger sizes at PL14 since you get the soulcannon and more units benefit from the Icon. They're better with a transport, nobody judges Meltavets without Chimeras. Some things justify the extra cost easily.

Inceptors have pre-existing mobility and a capped squad size. There's not really a suboptimal build. Not something OP mentioned but then again, you either focus on problems or you focus on solutions.

Can we say Inceptors have an advantage at PL8? Sure. That wouldn't produce nearly as hysterical of a thread though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Luciferian wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
They will cost more.

For comparison, Hellblasters are 23ppm but their guns cost 17ppm.

By that logic Inceptors will cost 39 points plus whatever their weapons cost, no?

Indeed they are. Why else would I be pointing out that they're 53 points fully equipped?

Cost of the model is without wargear or options.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:
No idea, you can't see the ppm cost for Inceptors. Their guns are 7pts each though.

I don't think the PL are drastically off from the points value. OP just doesn't understand the Rubrics aren't the kind of models you want to soak fire from an alpha strike unit like Inceptors.

It's a silly thread. Put the Rubrics in a Rhino already.

Rhinos are at least 4PL now... (70 points with nothing on it).

Except we have no idea what the default options are for interceptors. I am pretty sure that they will have more options than just heavy bolters in their full kit. The prices are with their base wargear, some models have base wargear some dont. The power level in the starter set was set because they mostly have fixed gear so they pointed it at 20 per power.

 Leth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
They're 18 points a model, you say? Well I sure hope somebody picks up that phone...

18ppm with no wargear. Likely aout 20-22 with an Inferno Bolter.

And maybe it,s too much DBZ Abridged but I feel like calling you Cooler all of a sudden....

They always have an inferno bolter......

BUT I fething CALLLEDD IT

Go look at the points costs list again. For anyone who is not a named special character it is given "without wargear". Which means that they could be more expensive once given a gun.

Yeah no......Upgrades cost things. This is default wargear for the unit. Look at their sheet.

Then why are Assault Bolters (the Inceptor's gun) 7 points each?

Not all basic weapons will be free. Having a cost for a model with now gear makes exchanging gear easier, instead of adding points for their gear you lose, you just add points for the gear the model actually has on it after the exchange,

Pretty moot excercise at this point, but how bout we compare MEQ/TEQ etc with rough maths appropriate to the rough estimate that power levels are.
By that I mean not counting .3 wounds and such as that makes no sense for dice. .3 wounds means that more often than not, you won't cause a single wound as dice only have full integers, ie on average that's 0 wounds caused.
So basically rounding to the nearest integer instead before and after re-rolls.
Also noting that the psyker is on average going to succeed his test more often than not, which means he deals 1 wound that goes through saves and wounds automatically. So we're adding +1 to rubric wounds from smite.
Also let's not pretend that it's impossible to get into rapid fire range. That has never been a problem in 7th and if you can get into rapid fire range, you can get into flamer range due to how assault weapons work now.


With that we get the following (rapid fire/flamer range for both, that also means the sorc gets to fire bolt pistol/warpflame pistol. Power levels are assuming such after all)
(shots/hits/wounds/after saves)
Rubrics (bolters) vs inceptors vs Rubrics(flamer) (vs each other)
9/6/2/2 vs 18/12/8/3 vs 15/15/5/4

Same vs MEQ
9/6/3/3 vs 18/12/8/3/4 vs 15/15/8/6

TEQ
9/6/3/2 vs 18/12/8/3 vs 15/15/8/5

4+ save assuming Toughness 3 (same for the following)
9/6/4/4 vs 18/12/8/5 vs 15/15/10/9

5+
9/6/4/5 vs 18/12/8/7 vs 15/15/10/11

6+
9/6/4/6 vs 18/12/8/8 vs 15/15/10/13

So against common infantry models, Rubrics are always worse than inceptors , but not by much.
In assaults, they have 7 attacks for inceptors and 6 for the rubrics, but the sorc has a better weapon so they're roughly equal there too unless you go up against multi wound where the sorc will deal two wounds on average (1 wound /2 damage).
Flamers on the other hand are amazing and outperform inceptors due to auto hitting and better ap while generating about as many attacks due to rubrics having more models.

So with flamers they beat inceptors, but it's much harder for rubrics to get into flamer range thna it is for interceptors to stay withing 18.
Bolters are worse, especially past 18 inch where you can't add smite, but they're also likely to be much cheaper and are still relatively close.

All in all they are both have pretty similar damage outputs, it's just that rubrics are a bit harder to use/risky, but that's were army synergy matters.
Also about their 4+ invulnerable? They've had that for several editions now, if anything you should expect them to have it)

Pretty sure you do have to pay for your default gear, if said gear does have a cost.

However, considering bolt rifles are 0 points, I suspect that the Rubrics' bolters will only be 1 or 2 points at most. After all, it's just a bolter with AP -2, bolt rifles are a bolter with AP -1 and 6" of extra range. Therefore, I can expect that they will be similar in cost.

Assault bolters are so expensive because it's basically a heavy bolter, so of course its cost is similar to a heavy bolter.

There's a psychic power that will give Rubrics an extra 5" move in the psychic phase. Probably helpful to get warpflamers up in a unit's face.

So again, synergy. Still lots of missing elements in this discussion. And if they're in flamer range, they can probably charge.

There is a decent chance that inferno bolt rifles end up costing zero. Bolt rifles have -1 ap but shoot further. That's not so terribly different. Even an auto bolt rifle which I presume is better than a bolt rifle still costs nothing.
It's not like anybody else gets to use them. (probably)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:
There's a psychic power that will give Rubrics an extra 5" move in the psychic phase. Probably helpful to get warpflamers up in a unit's face.

So again, synergy. Still lots of missing elements in this discussion.

More actually if you want to use flamers. It's not a move, they move as though it was another movement PHASE. Meaning they get to advance too, so 2 moves an 2 advances for an average 16 inch move + flamer range

 Roknar wrote:
There is a decent chance that inferno bolt rifles end up costing zero. Bolt rifles have -1 ap but shoot further. That's not so terribly different. Even an auto bolt rifle which I presume is better than a bolt rifle still costs nothing.

It's not impossible but I would like to raise the following point: PL is the cost of something plus basically half the cost of a model's upgrades. Seeing as the PL for a Rubric works out to 24 points, that means that half the cost of their flamer would be 6 points if we assume the bolter is free. So 12 points per Inferno flamer.

That seems off to me.

Yikes.

Why do people keep forgetting that Thousand Sons are a army focusing around psychic force multipliers? If they dominated the shooting phase unsupported, they'd be straight broken.

@Zion, we will get leaks sooner or later. It'll be resolved in time. But leaving a unit in the lurch to be ambushed by an alpha striker? This is a terrible choice in any edition. No speculation necessary.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
There is a decent chance that inferno bolt rifles end up costing zero. Bolt rifles have -1 ap but shoot further. That's not so terribly different. Even an auto bolt rifle which I presume is better than a bolt rifle still costs nothing.

It's not impossible but I would like to raise the following point: PL is the cost of something plus basically half the cost of a model's upgrades. Seeing as the PL for a Rubric works out to 24 points, that means that half the cost of their flamer would be 6 points if we assume the bolter is free. So 12 points per Inferno flamer.

That seems off to me.

Well there is still the icon and cannon to account for. Who knows, they might overcompensate for soulblaze by making the icon crazy good and crazy expensive.
But yea, I don't expect their guns to cost more than 2, which is still pretty good.

 Roknar wrote:
Also about their 4+ invulnerable? They've had that for several editions now, if anything you should expect them to have it)

I missed this, good point.

So against Rend -2 without cover, Rubrics are saving on a 4+ while Inceptors are at a 5+.

Yea, I could see Rubrics having a 2+ most of the time, but never worse than 50% chance at saving. That's pretty much the equivalent of cataphractii terminator armour.

It's 5+ invul against multiwound since they will lose the bonus.

Still, 2+/4++ is more than decent for a MEQ unit against everything else.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:
They're 18 points a model, you say? Well I sure hope somebody picks up that phone...

18ppm with no wargear. Likely aout 20-22 with an Inferno Bolter.

And maybe it,s too much DBZ Abridged but I feel like calling you Cooler all of a sudden....

They always have an inferno bolter......

BUT I fething CALLLEDD IT

Go look at the points costs list again. For anyone who is not a named special character it is given "without wargear". Which means that they could be more expensive once given a gun.

Yeah no......Upgrades cost things. This is default wargear for the unit. Look at their sheet.

Then why are Assault Bolters (the Inceptor's gun) 7 points each?

Not all basic weapons will be free. Having a cost for a model with now gear makes exchanging gear easier, instead of adding points for their gear you lose, you just add points for the gear the model actually has on it after the exchange,

I think they're future proofing, which is awesome. This way if some unit is super busted because of their baseline equipment, like warp spiders they can adjust it without needing to nuke the whole unit AND it lets them give more power to standard wargear.

Yoyoyo wrote:
It's 5+ invul against multiwound since they will lose the bonus.

Still, 2+/4++ is more than decent for a MEQ unit against everything else.

Oh, you're right. I thought the bonus for only for armour saves but it's for their invuln too. I though they would get their 4+ invuln from somewhere else we didn't know yet.
Still pretty good. If you're "wasting" multi damage weapons on Rubrics, that's multi damage weapons not firing into actual multi wound units like the prince.
I suppose it depends on how much those bolters/icon cost if it's warranted. Warptiming a unit of flamer rubrics could make it a tough call for your opponent.

And inceptors are actually 45pts each before the actually 15 point assault bolter.(bolter and chainsword PHOTO leaks)

So one inceptor with 2 assault bolters is 75points.

How much were rubrics again?

ERJAK wrote:
And inceptors are actually 45pts each before the actually 15 point assault bolter.(bolter and chainsword PHOTO leaks)

So one inceptor with 2 assault bolters is 75points.

How much were rubrics again?

18 points base.

ERJAK wrote:
And inceptors are actually 45pts each before the actually 15 point assault bolter.(bolter and chainsword PHOTO leaks)

So one inceptor with 2 assault bolters is 75points.

How much were rubrics again?

Where's this coming from? Got a link?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334013-full-leaked-blood-angels-rules-other-space-marine-prices/

Photos from the book.

Drop pods 103 lol

Nice, thanks.

Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder which version is the more recent. It doesn't seem likely that Space Marines and Primaris Space Marines would pay different points for the same model, so one of those leaks must be out of date. Though it might be a good idea to put that over in the Space Marine thread.

Did anyone notice that Rhinos are more expensive than Razorbacks according to that leak?

I'm pretty sure that's because the model price doesn't include weapons. The Razorback has less transport capacity, so its base hull is cheaper. But then you put a 25 point lascannon on it, and it's not so cheap anymore.

49 points for a Predator Autocannon too, that's interesting. So a basic Predator is 151 points, but instead of a standard autocannon it gets one that fires d3 blasts?

 ross-128 wrote:
Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder which version is the more recent. It doesn't seem likely that Space Marines and Primaris Space Marines would pay different points for the same model, so one of those leaks must be out of date. Though it might be a good idea to put that over in the Space Marine thread.

These are from the retail version of the books, so are most likely the correct ones.

 ross-128 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that's because the model price doesn't include weapons. The Razorback has less transport capacity, so its base hull is cheaper. But then you put a 25 point lascannon on it, and it's not so cheap anymore.

49 points for a Predator Autocannon too, that's interesting. So a basic Predator is 151 points, but instead of a standard autocannon it gets one that fires d3 blasts?

Probably true, I keep forgetting that points start off with no weapon choices at all.