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 Crimson Devil wrote:
From the Great Rift Article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/04/new-warhammer-40000-the-great-riftgw-homepage-post-4/

The Great Rift is a tear in reality that essentially divides the Imperium in half. Its emergence was a literal galaxy-shattering event, which threw the Imperium into chaos and ushered in new wars across nearly every world in the Imperium. So powerful and far was this storm that the very laws of physics fray at the edges as the inconsistencies of time fluctuations, once largely localised to larger storms such as the Eye of Terror, spread across the galaxy. Some worlds felt centuries go by in an instant while others were all but frozen in time, and still others have suffered constant temporal shifts.

Ka'Bandha saved the Blood Angels to taunt them and to make sure only he can deliver the deathblow.

Apparently their is a novel by Guy Haley coming out in November to explain the details of this summery we've seen.

https://www.amazon.com/Devastation-Baal-Space-Marine-Battles/dp/1784965936

hopefully it does justice to the blood angels

At least the Blood Angels didn't lose most of their Chapter to a space hulk this time!

Poly Ranger wrote:
So Khorne (plus Papa Smurf) saves the Blood Angels and all their successors... This. Does. Not. Bode. Well.
I can only think of 1 reason he would send his greatest lieutenant to stop Leviathan eating them...

Interestingly enough we also find out that:
-The Blood Angels do not get wiped out (just).
-The Crusade of RG made it through the warp rift and is now in the Dark Imperium, not on the Terran side (this is quite a huge development).
-Chaos has the ability to wipe out the entirety of the largest hive fleet seen to date (this is an assumption - they may have sent the majority of it through the warp elsewhere), whilst it is already committed to countless fields of war across the galaxy.
-Sanguinus does not reappear from the dead to save Baal.
-All the BA, aside from 1 chapter, are in 1 place, therefore in Legion strength before Leviathans attack, presumably given Primaris marines to make up for losses to be towards legion strength again after it's all over. Make of that what you will.

Thoughts?

Khabanda is massively butthurt at Sanguinus for punking him twice and won't abide some xenos chumps stealing the glory of destroying the Blood Angels. He wants to be the one responsible for it- thus Khabanda and the Bangles are currently frenemies.

As someone else said in another thread...it would have been cool if if it had been the Demiurg coming to the rescue of the BA. Payback time. Great way to introduce them as a new faction. And a nod to the old Lore.

Or the crusade could have been lead by the Sisters of Battle with the Primaris Marines tagging along. Great way to introduce the new plastic sisters range!

Or an unprecedented intervention by the Legion of Death heralding their new plastic range..

(begins to plead)

Or the Lamenters drop out of warp on their return from their successful Crusade of Penitence...inadvertently dropping into boarding range of the North Queens' vessels they wipe them out in an heroic combination suicidal ramming/boarding actions. Wiped out to a man the Lamenters break the back of the fleet who flee into the void.

Their Primaris battle-brothers become the first old Chapter to be 100% numarines.

Or the fleeing Space Wolves drop by seeking refuge...

All of which is hack writing, I know...but god-emperor did it have to be the smegging Ultramarine.

I don't understand the aversion to the Blood Angles loosing Baal all together. The fluff has had the Marines winning everything for so long. The villians have suffered DRASTIC villian decay because they never get a win. Starting off 8th by kicking in the teeth of the imperium of man just as they are getting new toys would have been great. The BA could have become a crusading chapter that would need to start pulling in recruits from a new system. Loosing Baal does not mean the BA don't exist. It just means they have to move on and forward.

And if it was really the BA vs a Hive Fleet like they described then it's not even a mark against the BA. You look at how hard they fought and think man... what a bunch of bad asses for still existing.

So far the only way the IoM have suffered any "meaningful" loss is Cadia and they still managed to send Abaddon packing.

My aversion is a tongue in cheek aversion to being rescued by the Ultramarines.

Ball is already a rad wasteland. As long as the planet is still there...meh.

Even a legion wouldn't have lasted 10 min vs the descriptions I've read about this particular hive fleet. Marines are too few in number in the fluff to matter at all, and yet, GW insists that they do.

Active Chapters: Angels Encarmine, Angels Numinous, Angels Penitent, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, Blood Drinkers, Blood Legion, Blood Swords, Carmine Blades, Charnel Guard, Disciples of Blood, Flesh Tearers, Knights of Blood, Red Knights, Red Wings, Scions of Sanguinius, Templars of Blood

Dead and Dying: Brothers of the Red, Crimson Legion, Crimson Swords, Exsanguinators, Flesh Eaters, Golden Sons, & Knights Sanguine

Absent: Lamenters

We know that the Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers are under strength at the beginning of the siege of Baal. And we can assume others are too. And if we add in a couple of unnamed chapters; At best the Dante had access to 15,000 - 20,000 marines. That's not a lot to take on a whole Hive Fleet. There simply was no way to win by themselves.

 TheLumberJack wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
So, just as GW Roboute Guilliman arrives with new models to sell desperately needed reinforcements, the old founding chapters are decimated in the fluff. What a twist!

This is what I've been saying! All the special snowflake chapters get destroyed, their homeworld effectively destroyed, and look like primaris marines are gonna take over the chapters

Remember: This is new GW. "Buy all our playsets and toys!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YaWpUy4BQE

 Lance845 wrote:
I don't understand the aversion to the Blood Angles loosing Baal all together. The fluff has had the Marines winning everything for so long. The villians have suffered DRASTIC villian decay because they never get a win. Starting off 8th by kicking in the teeth of the imperium of man just as they are getting new toys would have been great. The BA could have become a crusading chapter that would need to start pulling in recruits from a new system. Loosing Baal does not mean the BA don't exist. It just means they have to move on and forward.

And if it was really the BA vs a Hive Fleet like they described then it's not even a mark against the BA. You look at how hard they fought and think man... what a bunch of bad asses for still existing.

So far the only way the IoM have suffered any "meaningful" loss is Cadia and they still managed to send Abaddon packing.

if by "packing" you mean advancing into imperial space, sure, according to the most recent info Ultramar is still under siege. one thing to consider is that it's not the Imperium of man, the blood angels are their own faction with it's own codex and fanbase, they're not gonna wipe em out. that said keep in mind this victory was proably pretty phyrrhic victory, Baal has been absolutely TRASHED, the world may no longer be a suitable recruiting local. which means the world is almost lost effectivly anyway. thing is the blood angels would NOT have retreated from the world, so to have the world be lost, the blood angels and ALL THEIR SUCESSORS would have had to be wiped out

This is the second time Khorne has saved a Snowflake chapter from destruction.
Both first founding, both melee specialists...

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
This is the second time Khorne has saved a Snowflake chapter from destruction.
Both first founding, both melee specialists...

what was the other one?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
This is the second time Khorne has saved a Snowflake chapter from destruction.
Both first founding, both melee specialists...

what was the other one?

Wolves maybe?

Yeah the leaked story.. was a massive disappointment...

I started the game with Blood Angles and then went to Tyranids.. Was keen for a epic story, but the whole... oh fleet disappeared.. and here are your new marines..

Oh BTW the moon that was getting eaten looks like a Daemon killed all the bugs for you

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
This is the second time Khorne has saved a Snowflake chapter from destruction.
Both first founding, both melee specialists...

what was the other one?

Space Wolves.
Khorne supercharged Logan Grimnar's axe which enabled him to hurt Magnus and send him crying back to the warp.
That instance made perfect sense - he was screwing over the Tzeentch poster boy, not saving Fenris.
Baal doesn't make as much sense until you look at what the Blood Angels have in common with the Space Wolves - First founding chapter, melee specialists, heroes to entire systems - unstable geneseed that turns them into psychotic killers.

Oh and both stories would have made a good series but got cut to a few pages then a few paragraphs.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Active Chapters: Angels Encarmine, Angels Numinous, Angels Penitent, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, Blood Drinkers, Blood Legion, Blood Swords, Carmine Blades, Charnel Guard, Disciples of Blood, Flesh Tearers, Knights of Blood, Red Knights, Red Wings, Scions of Sanguinius, Templars of Blood

Dead and Dying: Brothers of the Red, Crimson Legion, Crimson Swords, Exsanguinators, Flesh Eaters, Golden Sons, & Knights Sanguine

Absent: Lamenters

We know that the Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers are under strength at the beginning of the siege of Baal. And we can assume others are too. And if we add in a couple of unnamed chapters; At best the Dante had access to 15,000 - 20,000 marines. That's not a lot to take on a whole Hive Fleet. There simply was no way to win by themselves.

Thanks for the list thats very helpful :-). That's just the list of known chapters and GW have said since 2nd ed that there are 1000 chapters and they haven't named them all so that players can come up with their own. If the list of known chapters comes in at just over 300 say, we can extrapolate from that that there are around 75-80 chapters of BA descent. With battle casualties and some chapters worse off from the Black Rage, that would put the numbers around say 50-60 thousand. Take off another 10k for forces unable to make it/ homeworld garrisons and we could say around 40-50 thousand were present in the Baal system. All conjecture of course and even those extra would make no difference against a hive fleet of Leviathans proportions still.

Baals population was on its moons. With both moons wiped out to lifeless rocks, Baal as a recruiting world is dead. The Blood Angels are now effectively homeless and slowly dying out.

Tygre wrote:
Baals population was on its moons. With both moons wiped out to lifeless rocks, Baal as a recruiting world is dead. The Blood Angels are now effectively homeless and slowly dying out.

You clearly missed that one empty sentence that said "Oh, btw, Blood Angels have fully rebuilt as if nothing happened."

Tygre wrote:
Baals population was on its moons. With both moons wiped out to lifeless rocks, Baal as a recruiting world is dead. The Blood Angels are now effectively homeless and slowly dying out.

Is there a reason that they cannot simply recruit from other planets?

Even if they can't. ..Robute probably arrived with a bunch of Primaris Blood Angels ready to roll.

This seems pretty similar to Fenris getting trashed. A way of forcing those chapters to accept new Primaris marines?

 Souleater wrote:
Is there a reason that they cannot simply recruit from other planets?

Nope. Apart from wolves there isn't really limit on what planet you can recruit. Fleet based ones don't even have a home world! Dark angels use several recruit planets.

Tygre wrote:
Baals population was on its moons. With both moons wiped out to lifeless rocks, Baal as a recruiting world is dead. The Blood Angels are now effectively homeless and slowly dying out.

They can recruit from anywhere - as long as they have geneseed they are fine - they might have to change some traditions or they just find a similar death world and set up shop.

Its unlikely but be nice to know what happened to the non Astartes forces after Shield of Baal.....

 Souleater wrote:

Tygre wrote:
Baals population was on its moons. With both moons wiped out to lifeless rocks, Baal as a recruiting world is dead. The Blood Angels are now effectively homeless and slowly dying out.

Is there a reason that they cannot simply recruit from other planets?

Even if they can't. ..Robute probably arrived with a bunch of Primaris Blood Angels ready to roll.

This seems pretty similar to Fenris getting trashed. A way of forcing those chapters to accept new Primaris marines?

Blood Angels have been dying out for a while and their planet has very little to do with it. The Blood Angels' and all their successor chapter's recruits have been succumbing to the Black Rage earlier and earlier meaning they aren't actually getting any military service out of more and more before they have to off their own numbers.

As for Fenris the Dark Angels blew chunks out of Midguardia, a neighbouring planet in the Fenris system - due to bad writing they somehow couldn't tell the difference.
Most of the damage being done to Fenris' population is at the hands of the Grey Knights - why are they getting minimal attention at Cadia? Most of them are at Fenris getting payback for Armageddon.