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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/29/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-space-marines/

SO GRAV
Cannon and Amp - 24" Heavy 4, S5 AP-3 Dmg1
If the target hasa Save characteristic of 3+ or better, this weapon does D3 dmg


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Predators are powerful, able to carry 4 lascannons into battle while being Toughness 7 with 11 Wounds


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Dreadnoughts in the new edition are Toughness 7 with 8 Wounds, which makes them a lot more resilient than before. They also have 4 Attacks that are Strength 12, AP -3 and 3 Damage each

I'm fine with grav I just hope old Robby is appropriately costed, he is stil supremely powerfull.

So no matter what he has 3+ save except against Mortal wounds.

Knights with their "D" swords get flat 6 wounds, but they are not mortal wounds so He saves them on 3+ invlun

I'd have to think Magnus will be somewhat similar

Interesting stuff.... just to confirm, TL now doubles the shots but no re-rolls? Thinking about rifleman dreads here now sitting at T7 with a save and just hammering armor from across the board.

I was most interested in the "keep an Apothecary nearby" statement. Does this mean that the Apothecary is no longer tided down to a single unit almost no one takes and will instead be a character that can be used however you see fit.

 Aetare wrote:
Interesting stuff.... just to confirm, TL now doubles the shots but no re-rolls? Thinking about rifleman dreads here now sitting at T7 with a save and just hammering armor from across the board.

I’m pretty sure they said that in one of the early articles.

The problem with riflemen is going to the the lack of a powerfist. Dreads have a lot of potential in CC, that you loose if you go for a pure gunline build.

Points and the big picture can change that though. I think if you want to stand back and shoot, you might be better off with a pred.

Naaris wrote:
So no matter what he has 3+ save except against Mortal wounds.

Knights with their "D" swords get flat 6 wounds, but they are not mortal wounds so He saves them on 3+ invlun

I'd have to think Magnus will be somewhat similar

Remember that the way it works now it that damage is inflicted per failed save. So if Roboute fails a single 3+ invul, he automatically loses 6 wounds. It will only take 2 failed saves from a Knight to kill Rowboat.....the first time.

-

Grav still seems pretty strong. I wish they'd release all the unit info already so there's an idea of what is OP and what isn't.

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
I was most interested in the "keep an Apothecary nearby" statement. Does this mean that the Apothecary is no longer tided down to a single unit almost no one takes and will instead be a character that can be used however you see fit.

Sounds like it, enjoy your Painboys SM players! no doubt you'll get a proper 5+ from him too, rather than a 6+.

Interesting Faction Focus today, sounds like Preds will be pretty good and Guilliman sounds suitably powerful. Hopefully suitably costed to go with it. SM Dreads will be a lot of fun to use I think.

Tri(quad)-las predator does twice as much damage on average as the battlecannon against all unit types.

But don't worry lads, I'm sure the predator will be 30 points more expensive then the Leman Russ to compensate for this.

How many armies left?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Tri(quad)-las predator does twice as much damage on average as the battlecannon against all unit types.

But don't worry lads, I'm sure the predator will be 30 points more expensive then the Leman Russ to compensate for this.

But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons (and considerably more durable), so overall it's putting out way more firepower.
Battlecannon also kill-caps out at 6 models, versus the pred's 4.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
How many armies left?

Which ones have we seen so far?

I remember seeing:

Orks
SM
Guard
DE
Chaos Daemons
GSC
Death Guard
Nids
Knights
Tau
Eldar
CSM

So that leaves:

Necrons
Sisters
Mechanicus
Specific splinter factions like SM chapters and Harlequins etc.

GS Cults were also done

 McGibs wrote:
But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons

It *can* have three more weapons.

For a price.

I have been hoping that they would do a faction focus on the space wolves. I am pretty much chomping at the bit waiting to see how thunderwolf cav will look on stats.

I wouldn't mind a Dark Angels focus either.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons

It *can* have three more weapons.

For a price.

Well discussing relative points costs without the relative points costs is not that useful. Pretty much all discussion before 8th actually hits is just for keeping us amused for a few weeks anyway. I mean, all we have are small glimpses at a few different aspects. Even the core rules that were leaked are likely the simplified starter set rules.

Also, to be super-pedantic, the russ can have two more weapons. The hull mount is mandatory. Aren't the predator's sponsons optional too?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons

It *can* have three more weapons.

For a price.

And the Predator comes standard with an Autocannon and two Heavy Bolters, needing to pay to upgrade to Lascannons. Your point?

 McGibs wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Tri(quad)-las predator does twice as much damage on average as the battlecannon against all unit types.

But don't worry lads, I'm sure the predator will be 30 points more expensive then the Leman Russ to compensate for this.

But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons (and considerably more durable), so overall it's putting out way more firepower.
Battlecannon also kill-caps out at 6 models, versus the pred's 4.

Hrm, the Russ is not meaningfully more durable really. It's got 1 point more T and 1 extra wound, which, while nice, is going to be less meaningful than their current armor disparity in the 3E-7E paradigm. The Russ really isn't going to be meaningfully more resilient than it is now, it's looking to be a giant stinker unless they're dirt cheap. The battlecannon has a higher top end potential model kill count but is dramatically less effective in terms of expected kill count and damage output, with lower BS to boot. The Predator can get effectively just as many weapons too.

Grav weapons look like they've change rolls a bit. They wound all but the most fragile viehcles on a 5+, won't be getting extra damage on a lot of transports we've seen (despite still wounding on a 4+/5+). On the other hand, it's now great for clearing out both normal and heavy infantry, as it'll being getting d3 damage on terminators/primaris, ignoring most of their armor, and has 4 shots. Even against gaurdsmen it's better than the heavy bolter in shots and armor penetration, lacking only the range of the former option.

As the owner of a couple of units of kataphron destroyers, I'm personally fairly excited by those changes.

The new missle launcher is in the same rough position, being useful against any unit but not outstanding against any one. Biggest usage is high toughness multiwound models that lack much of an armor save.

RG is already downright frustrating this edition, the changes to the new one look like they overall toned him down. His ability to act as a force multiplier are at least lessened, unless he has a bucket more special rules/warlord traits on top of what was mentioned. Even in combat mortal wounds aren't as scary as D strength attacks were imo, so looks less horrifically frustrating.

As far as faction focuses go, assuming it's the factions on the 40k site we have



Which would put as between 10-13 more. Which is about right for the current pace, up until release.

Full BA datasheets and points cost for every vanilla SM unit:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334013-full-leaked-blood-angels-rules-other-space-marine-prices/

-Rhinos more expensive than Razorbacks

-Apothecaries are ICs and take an elite slot (d'oh!)

-Same with other command squad units, they are all separate characters and each take an elite slot (brutal)

-Points have gone way up for many things. A majority of my models have had their points increased by an additional 100%, with the smallest increase being about 30%

I wonder if there is any limit to auras stacking. From a first glance over it seems you can get +2 attacks (on the charge),+2 strength, re-rolls to hit and +leadership a few times. Did I miss anything? Not saying that it's strong, just that it's quite a few possible buffs (requiring death company to get them all iirc)

 Nevelon wrote:

 Aetare wrote:
Interesting stuff.... just to confirm, TL now doubles the shots but no re-rolls? Thinking about rifleman dreads here now sitting at T7 with a save and just hammering armor from across the board.

I’m pretty sure they said that in one of the early articles.

The problem with riflemen is going to the the lack of a powerfist. Dreads have a lot of potential in CC, that you loose if you go for a pure gunline build.

Points and the big picture can change that though. I think if you want to stand back and shoot, you might be better off with a pred.

Yeah, in my case it's the fact that I don't want to spend any more $$$ on tanks and already have the Riflemen, which I hope shouldn't suffer too badly with my otherwise very choppy armies (GK, Wolves, etc...)


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 Books wrote:
I have been hoping that they would do a faction focus on the space wolves. I am pretty much chomping at the bit waiting to see how thunderwolf cav will look on stats.

Same here; hoping for some leaked rules even at this point leading up to release. I can't imagine they'll change the overall feel of the army though; my grey hunters will still be as swiss-army-knife-esque as ever, and my Thunderwolves will still be very choppy. Now all I need is to add some wulfen to my collection...

 Luciferian wrote:
Full BA datasheets and points cost for every vanilla SM unit:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334013-full-leaked-blood-angels-rules-other-space-marine-prices/

-Rhinos more expensive than Razorbacks

-Apothecaries are ICs and take an elite slot (d'oh!)

-Same with other command squad units, they are all separate characters and each take an elite slot (brutal)

-Points have gone way up for many things. A majority of my models have had their points increased by an additional 100%, with the smallest increase being about 30%

Neat stuff, though razorbacks will be more expensive than rhinos with weapons equipped. Also points increase means smaller games, in theory. 72 points for a storm bolter powerfist terminator so yeah almost double. Tac squad is still 14 points a model though. Don't know if that's a good comparison though.

Oh look, the Predator outpowers the Russ in almost every significant aspect.
But dont worry, I am sure it will cost more than the Russ - after all it is not like GW have a history of horrifically buffing Space Marines beyond every other faction....

 master of ordinance wrote:
Oh look, the Predator outpowers the Russ in almost every significant aspect.
But dont worry, I am sure it will cost more than the Russ - after all it is not like GW have a history of horrifically buffing Space Marines beyond every other faction....

Actually no. Normally Space Marines have always sucked and have been mid to top tier but never the TOP one.

Personally I'll prefer if the best tanks of the Imperium are for the imperial guard (They already are with the biggers ones like the baneblade, etc...)

 Grimgold wrote:


Neat stuff, though razorbacks will be more expensive than rhinos with weapons equipped. Also points increase means smaller games, in theory. 72 points for a storm bolter powerfist terminator so yeah almost double. Tac squad is still 14 points a model though. Don't know if that's a good comparison though.

It will certainly mean smaller games for my army. I don't have the Dark Angels list, obviously, but making a couple of educated guesses I come up with right around 2,000 points for this:

Interrogator Chaplain, bike
Librarian with Force Sword, bike

Company Champion, bike, twin plasma guns
Apothecary, bike, twin plasma guns
Company Ancient, bike, twin plasma guns

Black Knights x9, bikes, twin plasma guns, corvus hammer (assuming those will be just a few points)

Ravenwing bikers x12, Grav Gun x4, Melta Gun x4

And that's it. That's a 1000 point list in 7th.

 EnTyme wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
But then the russ has 3 other heavy weapons

It *can* have three more weapons.

For a price.

And the Predator comes standard with an Autocannon and two Heavy Bolters, needing to pay to upgrade to Lascannons. Your point?

The point is that pre-8th a tri-las predator was 10 points less then a stock BC Russ, and if that ends up being the case again then the Russ is in trouble. If you're still having trouble grasping this, I can try to whip something up in MS Paint for you.

Edit- Also, lel, the stock autocannon+HB sponsons does comparable or better damage then the battlecannon on average to most targets.

Points increases across the board seem pretty promising. The predator has a defacto 27 point increase- extrapolating from that, if lascannons end up costing around 30 points you're looking at a ballpark of 190 for the quad-las configuration.

Quad LCs is 202 pts with no other wargear, according to the leaked lists. (25/sponson LC and 50 for the twin)