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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Also what's the tactical advantage of Grey Knight Dreads over the DK?


The dreadnought deals more damage and is cheaper, while the DK is tougher. Tactically I think they act differently. The dreadnought is not tough enough to be deployed alone, so its job is to escort and support the main battle line providing reliable dmg against medium and heavy armor. On the other side, the Dreadknight works as a flanking unit, deepstriking and distracting your opponent. The problem with the dreadknight is you don't need more than a couple deepstrikers and for that job paladins are a lot better.
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Seizeman wrote:
Also what's the tactical advantage of Grey Knight Dreads over the DK?


The dreadnought deals more damage and is cheaper, while the DK is tougher. Tactically I think they act differently. The dreadnought is not tough enough to be deployed alone, so its job is to escort and support the main battle line providing reliable dmg against medium and heavy armor. On the other side, the Dreadknight works as a flanking unit, deepstriking and distracting your opponent. The problem with the dreadknight is you don't need more than a couple deepstrikers and for that job paladins are a lot better.


Thanks, does the FW (chapter) allow grey knights or is it just the vehicles listed under Grey Knights that you can take?
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Thanks, does the FW (chapter) allow grey knights or is it just the vehicles listed under Grey Knights that you can take?


I don't think so. The regular index does not allow it, as in you can't use "grey knights" as your chapter to have bikes or predators, so it should works the same for FW.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Wraith






Seizeman wrote:
Thanks, does the FW (chapter) allow grey knights or is it just the vehicles listed under Grey Knights that you can take?


I don't think so. The regular index does not allow it, as in you can't use "grey knights" as your chapter to have bikes or predators, so it should works the same for FW.


This is correct. The only units GK are allowed to utilize are those marked with GK or those the index specifically states can be taken as <Grey Knights>. They can still be used but they don't get the Grey Knights label.

 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







Which is an interesting choice because that means GK lost access to a decent amount of Forgeworld models. Might just be that FW quality though which is present in the rest of the index.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Question, if I have a landraider in close combat, and I use gate of infinity to teleport him out, can he shoot that turn? I think he can because he didn't fall back out of combat

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 12:55:46


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 TheMostWize wrote:
Seizeman wrote:
Thanks, does the FW (chapter) allow grey knights or is it just the vehicles listed under Grey Knights that you can take?


I don't think so. The regular index does not allow it, as in you can't use "grey knights" as your chapter to have bikes or predators, so it should works the same for FW.


This is correct. The only units GK are allowed to utilize are those marked with GK or those the index specifically states can be taken as <Grey Knights>. They can still be used but they don't get the Grey Knights label.



Gibs55 wrote:
While talking about FW, is it only the stuff in the Gery Knight section you can take as the poster above mentions I.e. Could you take a leviathan dread as Grey Knight?

Also what's the tactical advantage of Grey Knight Dreads over the DK?


This is flawed thinking, then that means Blood Angels/Dark Angels and space wolves cannot take any other the forgeworld units either. The forgeworld units don't say they belong to any spcific list imo.

Having looked through the Forgewolrd Index, I can honestly say, nothing in the directs what units can be taken by what factions other then keywords. Since the Grey Knight sections says we can change keyword <Chapter> to grey Knight, I guess we can take all the space marine vehicles in addition to the GK specific things.

Dreadnoughts bring much better firepower imo then a dreadknight, where as a dreadknight has mobility and better close combat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 17:15:39


Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




They are going to have to clarify those Indexes. As obvious choices aren't obvious. For example: Greater Blight Drone has <Legion> which means technically by the book, DEATH GUARD cannot have Greater Blight Drones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 18:35:20


 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




The grey knights section of the index specifies wich units can change the <chaper> keyword for the <grey knights> one, it does not give you freedom to change it in any other instance.

If you could take forgeworld astartes units as "grey knights", then you could take any index space marine unit, like centurions and bikes as "grey knights" too. And no one is going to seriously argue that we can take every unit in the index.

So no, unless GW specifically corrects it, Grey Knights can't take generic astartes FW units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 18:47:00


 
   
Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




Seizeman wrote:
The grey knights section of the index specifies wich units can change the <chaper> keyword for the <grey knights> one, it does not give you freedom to change it in any other instance.

If you could take forgeworld astartes units as "grey knights", then you could take any index space marine unit, like centurions and bikes as "grey knights" too. And no one is going to seriously argue that we can take every unit in the index.

So no, unless GW specifically corrects it, Grey Knights can't take generic astartes FW units.


That's what the wording states, however by that logic the Space Wolves (who have a similar entry in the Imperium 1 index) would also be denied taking anything at all from the FW index, in spite of being a 1st Founding Legion. I definitely don't think that was the intention.

It wasn't spelled out, but I think the limitations spelled out in the start of the GK and SW entries refer to units from that index only. We shall have to wait for clarification.

Edit: Dark Angels and Blood Angels too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 19:35:12


 
   
Made in us
Pile of Necron Spare Parts





I'm confused why Grey Knights can't take any of the generic astartes FW units in their army. I don't have the book so I don't know but do those units not have the Imperium faction keyword? I thought all that mattered when building an army was that every unit needed to share at least one faction keyword.
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




I agree that it is probably not the intention, but right now there's no doubt rules wise that they can't take FW units.

Althought it could actually be on purpose, as those chapters have already a lot of unique stuff and are very peculiar about which equipment they do or don't like to use. But that's probably not the case, because it does not sell models.

So ideally they should clarify it in an early FAQ, along some other stuff (in fact FW indexes need a ton of errata corrections).
   
Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




 Hakumei wrote:
I'm confused why Grey Knights can't take any of the generic astartes FW units in their army. I don't have the book so I don't know but do those units not have the Imperium faction keyword? I thought all that mattered when building an army was that every unit needed to share at least one faction keyword.


You can take whatever you want, FW, Space marine, Astra Militarum or whatever. The issue is that they can't necessarily share the Chapter Keyword, so you can't put your marines in a FW transport for example.

Just an administrative issue, and should be cleared up by Tournament Org's if not by GW/FW. I wouldn't be put off buying more Forgeworld for my GKs in the meantime (looks like I need another dreadnought anyway )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 20:01:56


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Where it will matter is Gate of Infinity.

If the Relic Mastodon Super-Heavy Siege Transport is allowed to take GREY KNIGHT in place of <CHAPTER>. Then you could start with 1 Brotherhood champion outside of the vehicle and 35 Purifiers inside the vehicle with Crowe. On first psychic phase of the game teleport the Mastodon to 9" from an opponents army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/30 04:40:34


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Baal Fortress Monastery

I figure this is the best place to ask since everyone here is a Grey Knights player, but do Grey Knight Power Armor models come on the older small marine bases or the new updated sizes for marines? Most of my Grey Knights are un-assembled and I bought them back in 6th edition so I was wondering if I should switch to the new base size if that's actually legal.
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Grey knights come with the small 25mm bases, so technically you can only use those.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







You know you can probably take FW units as Grey Knights. They have nothing prohibiting it and the Grey Knight keyword on the psycannon vehicles is there to prevent others from taking them.

For instance, the Minotaur have their own vehicle. It would be too much of a departure for FW to to say GK lose these toys they had explicit access to before.

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in fr
Been Around the Block




Youn wrote:
Well, just won this weekends FLGS tournament. Was pretty easy to pick up objectives and still put out enough firepower with the following list:

Stormraven (AC, Melta, HB)
- Crowe (Gate)
- Purifier (Psilencer, Psycannon) Justicar with hammer (Gate)
- Purifier (Psilencer, Psycannon) Justicar with hammer (Gate)
- Dreadnought - Melta, CCW with SB
Stormraven (AC, Melta, HB)
- Purifier (Psilencer, Psycannon) Justicar with hammer (Gate)
- Purifier (Psilencer, Psycannon) Justicar with hammer (Gate)
- Dreadnought - Melta, CCW with SB
Dreadknight - H.Inc, H.Psy + 2 dreadfists (Gate)


What do you think about swapping Dreadnoughts by Venerable Dreadnoughts and some Hammers by falchions?
The BS 2+ is really good with multi-melta plus the feel no pain should be nice.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Well, figure the points.. you will have trouble fitting the Venerable dreadnoughts.
.

   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Baal Fortress Monastery

Seizeman wrote:
Grey knights come with the small 25mm bases, so technically you can only use those.
Oh interesting. I thought with the repackage they would have changed the base sizes on them too. Thanks for the info!
   
Made in nz
Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice






I was looking to round out my GK force with some allies. Haven't played since 5th, was looking at It or Mechanicus, what would people recommend?

I'm worried about antitank, and it seems my old autocannon dreads aren't as good as they used to be in 5th.

As a lifetime marine player no idea where to start with IG/Mech
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




 grimz wrote:
I was looking to round out my GK force with some allies. Haven't played since 5th, was looking at It or Mechanicus, what would people recommend?

I'm worried about antitank, and it seems my old autocannon dreads aren't as good as they used to be in 5th.

As a lifetime marine player no idea where to start with IG/Mech


The army you like the look of will always be far more important, no one can tell you what that is. If you'd rather just know what is super hot OP right now, Its Imperial Guard.

-----

I've got a 1K points doubles Tourney coming up. FAQ's will be legal, 2 detachments max, all other rules the same. Not sure on team mate but will be one of either Marines, IG, Tau or Necrons, I will have some say in choosing.

Any ideas for a good combo list at such low points? I'm struggling to put bodies on the table as my collection consists of mostly Terminators.
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




With grey knights, the best antitank choices are stormraven, melee and more melee.

There's no way for almost any army to kill multiple vehicles in a cost efficient way, as vehicles are very cheap and heavy weapons very expensive, so the way to deal with vehicles is to ignore them or tie them in melee. This is specially true for grey knights.

So the answer against artillery is just to charge (transports are good for this).

As for targets you can't ignore and must kill fast, they are basically tough melee units like dreadnoughts or monstruous tyranids. Against those you can use the aforementioned stormraven, as it packs enough firepower to blow up almost anything in a turn and it complements the grey knights playstyle nicely. You can also use dreadnoughts (specially of the doomglaive variety) in melee, because, agains those kind of threats, you will be in range to charge them. Grand masters (specially Draigo) and Paladins (give them at least a couple of hammers) can also work the same way.

And as Spartacus said, don't take allies just for their gameplay power, do it only if you like them. But honestly, I don't think grey knights need allies, and single faction armies are generally better, and it will be even more true as codex get released, with more additions to single factions.
   
Made in nz
Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice






Seizeman wrote:
With grey knights, the best antitank choices are stormraven, melee and more melee.

There's no way for almost any army to kill multiple vehicles in a cost efficient way, as vehicles are very cheap and heavy weapons very expensive, so the way to deal with vehicles is to ignore them or tie them in melee. This is specially true for grey knights.

So the answer against artillery is just to charge (transports are good for this).

As for targets you can't ignore and must kill fast, they are basically tough melee units like dreadnoughts or monstruous tyranids. Against those you can use the aforementioned stormraven, as it packs enough firepower to blow up almost anything in a turn and it complements the grey knights playstyle nicely. You can also use dreadnoughts (specially of the doomglaive variety) in melee, because, agains those kind of threats, you will be in range to charge them. Grand masters (specially Draigo) and Paladins (give them at least a couple of hammers) can also work the same way.

And as Spartacus said, don't take allies just for their gameplay power, do it only if you like them. But honestly, I don't think grey knights need allies, and single faction armies are generally better, and it will be even more true as codex get released, with more additions to single factions.


Thanks for advice I'll check out these doomglaive dreadnoughts. I've got some DKOK which I was running as henchmen before ad I really like that aesthetic. I don't think I really want to buy more marines so I'll be looking at some kinda Guard or Mechanicus if I can pick up cheap.
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Seizeman wrote:
With grey knights, the best antitank choices are stormraven, melee and more melee.


So..we don't use the Dakkaraven? I thought it would be the best loadout.
But to be honest I wondered why most people were eager to add more Bolter/Assaultcannons to a force that can spam rapidfire like no one else, but lacks the options for anti tank.
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Yes, grey knights are now great vs light infantry. Massive amount of bolter fire plus the assault cannons on razorbacks is enough against most stuff. That's why I prefer to go full antitank with the raven: lascannon and melta. It still has the hurricane bolters for an extra 24 bolter shots (and so ridiculously cheap).

Honestly I think that the way grey knights play right now is flavorful, and represents exactly how they would do in the lore. They use massive bolter fire to clear the chaff and make way so they can charge the big demon lord and beat it with a hammer in epic hand to hand combat, all this achieved in a swift and perfectly executed alpha strike.

Most armies that I've seen must play how they are supposed to act in the lore to be effective, which I think shows the great work the development team has done and they does not get enough recognition for it.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






It is a bit of a downer that we have to start with several units on the field. Having to put purgators, purifiers, and dreadnoughts on the table always felt lame since Grey Knight stories rarely ever set them up as fighting pitched battles where there'd be a battle line vs a battle line. Now that the rules literally force us to keep 50% of our army on the field to begin with it's ruined the "teleport in, kill everything, teleport out" flavor that inspired me to get Grey Knights in the first place.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




Allies help with the fluff too! Have a Space Marine chapter, like the Exorcists, be your on the field units. Then Deep Strike in a Grey Knight detachment.

Plus, Centurion Destroyers solve a lot of anti-tank problems.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Audustum wrote:
Allies help with the fluff too! Have a Space Marine chapter, like the Exorcists, be your on the field units. Then Deep Strike in a Grey Knight detachment.

Plus, Centurion Destroyers solve a lot of anti-tank problems.


Yea, that's what I'm moving towards doing. Problem is, my 2 armies are Grey Knights and Deathwatch at the moment, and i have ground forces for neither, haha.

Once I get my 40k paint pile down, I'm buying some Astra Militarum (but, by the time I actually get there, plastic SoB might be released, and I'll have all 3 military arms of the Inquisition!)

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

I've been considering a GK force, with Sisters. Start the SOB on the field, DS the Knights. Workable? Seems plenty fluffy, but can it win?

The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
 
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