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Is it a bad idea to make the kind of "deathstar" type unit with Draigo, Paladin Ancient, Apothecary, Paladins and maybe even a normal Libby for an extra crazy smite?

Or would it be better to split up those auras so that you have Draigo+Apothecary+Paladins, Paladin Ancient+Paladins and then maybe a GM+Paladin Ancient+Paladins.

I'm trying to write a 3k list for a big game and I'm struggling how best to use the terminator models.

Paladins are powerful enough already, they really don't need much help to do their job, adding too much would be overkill. Also they are slow, and if you tie too many points into them that can be an issue.

For small games (1500) I use just a 5-man squad with 2 hammers and Draigo, as his buff is really important for the alpha strike.

In 2000 points I use a second unit of 4 paladins (1 hammer) + an apothecary (hammer) so I have a better control of the field.
In a 3k game you can easily have 2 units of 4 or 5 paladins with an apothecary for each one plus Draigo and an extra HQ (probably a GM) and that would be very effective. With that many points you can have them ride stormravens or land raiders for increased mobility. If you don't have them ride the ravens, you can consider a 3rd unit, but generally they get redundant and not as useful past the second one.

I really don't like the ancient. For it to be efficient for its cost you have to buff at least 3 units (or 2 units and a character with a hammer), and even then he's not better than another unit of paladins or an apothecary + something. It's pretty hard to make a coordinated charge with paladins + several characters while keeping everyone inside the aura and honesly, if you are chargin with some units + a character you are already destroying most things.

I don't have land raider(s) available unfortunately. I do have 1 stormraven but I'm currently thinking about using it to transport Crowe+purifiers right into CC range for turn 2. The 2xD6 mortal wounds will be insane.

I don't want this to turn into an army list discussion but I definitely want to use Paladins in this army. They will be the core power that the dreadnaughts/dreadknights/stormraven/purifiers/strike squads will all rotate around.

The thing with paladins is they can't be the main damage dealers in your army.

If you use them on foot (deep strike) they deploy far enough from the enemy that they can't reliably charge, and then they only move 5", so the enemy can avoid their charge for a turn or two. Meanwhile they will only do damage by shooting, and they are not very efficient at it. That's why you take advantage of the zoning they provide. The paladins act as spiky walls closing on the enemy. The opponent can't pass through them and killing them requieres a ton of resources, leaving the rest of your army unharmed. So your opponent has to either let your paladins charge (wich is bad) or fall back through the bottleneck you have created (wich is also bad), having them in a bad possition where your main force will take advantage of it. That's why, while being a key part of the army, they have a specific role and are not standard damage dealers.

If you want Paladins to reliably charge and do damage from the start, you need a 300+ points transport, so the cost also prohibits them to be the core power of the army in this case.

Purifiers look really hard to use. They cost a lot and require a transport, so they can't realistically replace strikes. Once you have the strikes, Paladins and heavy support takes a higher priority than the purifiers, and then you are out of points. Also, they will inmediately die the moment they disembark, so although they are very powerful, they won't have many chances to prove it, and that's not considering them failing their smite or the opponent denying it. Their transport being destroyed also makes them pretty useless. All in all I don't see how to fit them in an army of 2000 point or less. They are really powerful, but I'm not sure it can compensate their low durability and narrowness. Has anyone been able to use them in a consistently efficient manner?

Can't disagree with the points you make. I'm only really considering them because this is a 3k list and I'd quite frankly like to see the offensive power of them+crowe. Much of the rest of my list at the moment consists of 3 dreadnoughts (autocannons), 3 dreadknights and 20 strikes (my model limit otherwise I'd take more).

That's why I think the paladins need to be the core as I don't have enough PAGKs to build that solid core.

In the future I am looking to add an imperial knight to my GK list but I'm not really sure how it fits in (both strategy and force organisation wise).

Force-wise you just take a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment. Done. Doesn't even have the -1 CP of the other Auxiliaries.

I find the best Knights are ones that bring the heavy shooting Grey Knights lack. So Crusaders and Porphyrions (if you got the points for the latter since he runs about 800).

Ah cool, thanks Audustum I won't be able to get a knight done in time for this game but it is on my list for the future (once I also have money).

For this game I'm looking at playing with 20 PA guys (strikes or interceptors), ~30 Terminators/Paladins, 10 purifiers, 3 dreadnoughts, 3 dreadknights, 1 stormraven and characters (apothecary, voldus/librarian, draigo, crowe). From that I need to field 3k points. There are multiple other players in like a massive 12k point-a-side game so I'm looking to test how good GK are in 8th as well as just have some fun with my favourite marines.

Seizeman wrote:
The apothecary makes better use of the ancient and draigo auras than the two paladins do, so I don't know what's your point. You fail to realise that even discounting the healing ability and the extra smite, the apothecary hits harder and it's more survivable than the two paladins. You are just trying to argue with fact.

Funny how you disregard the apothecary but favour the ancient. The ancient does less damage than the apothecary unless you are buffing at least 3 more units, while being 40 points more expensive.

And if you can't afford the extra slot because of deep striking, you are just building your list wrong.

Ancient doesn't work on a by a x unit basis. 2 min squads w/ an Ancient instantly do more damage than the Apothecary; since you obviously have other parts of the army an Ancient is better up until the moment everyone else is dead. So yes an Ancient can and will be pasted in combat with a Apothecary but he does more for the army overall.

As for durability, yes Apothecary operates at full capacity past 3 wounds whereas one Paladin dies, but those Paladins won't get killed by one lucky Lascannon or melta; so depends on how you value wounds to bodies. Call me an old-fashioned player but boys over toys has always been a rule for 40k.

Ancient doesn't work on a by a x unit basis. 2 min squads w/ an Ancient instantly do more damage than the Apothecary

It doesn't, that's the issue. Unless you are hitting light infantry, the apothecary deals more damage by himself than the ancient + the extra attacks. The ancient having just a falchion severely hinders his potential. The ancient only gets better than the apothecary once it affects 3 extra units (assuming units of 5) or 2 units with several hammers, and even then, it costs 40% more points, so point for point the apothecary is always more efficient. And that's assuming you can get that many units inside his aura, wich is pretty hard, and totally disregarding the apothecary's ability. The moment he prevents a single death his efficiency skyrockets. A particularly dirty trick is reviving a paladin and setting it in front of the unit so you gain more than 3 extra inches on the next charge, wich is really useful.

About the apothecary being hit by a laser, that won't happen unless you want it to happen, as he's a character, and even if he does, it is very risky to fire a laser into an apothecary instead of a paladin, as he will most probably survive and heal himself. It's a lot worse for the opponent to shoot an apothecary than to shoot a paladin, so there's no point to your argument.

Seizeman wrote:

Ancient doesn't work on a by a x unit basis. 2 min squads w/ an Ancient instantly do more damage than the Apothecary

It doesn't, that's the issue. Unless you are hitting light infantry, the apothecary deals more damage by himself than the ancient + the extra attacks. The ancient having just a falchion severely hinders his potential. The ancient only gets better than the apothecary once it affects 3 extra units (assuming units of 5) or 2 units with several hammers, and even then, it costs 40% more points, so point for point the apothecary is always more efficient. And that's assuming you can get that many units inside his aura, wich is pretty hard, and totally disregarding the apothecary's ability. The moment he prevents a single death his efficiency skyrockets. A particularly dirty trick is reviving a paladin and setting it in front of the unit so you gain more than 3 extra inches on the next charge, wich is really useful.

About the apothecary being hit by a laser, that won't happen unless you want it to happen, as he's a character, and even if he does, it is very risky to fire a laser into an apothecary instead of a paladin, as he will most probably survive and heal himself. It's a lot worse for the opponent to shoot an apothecary than to shoot a paladin, so there's no point to your argument.

And where is your math backing up this 3 extra units claim? Its very easy to come into a thread and claim your theory is better but you have yet to prove the merits. Auras are not hard to benefit from considering the fact Grey Knights already have few units to begin with, The biggest concern would be that once the charge has been made you may be out of aura range because there is a chance the ancient doesn't make the charge themselves.

The largest reason I disregard the apothecary is simply because his efficacy is dependent on the opponent having low quality weapons with which they will fail to kill a squad of X. This edition is very killy to the point I would build for bodies and buffs rather than pure point efficiency which ends up not being efficient.

Further you claim it is worse for a opponent to shoot an apothecary than a paladin, yet you say yourself the apothecary is more efficient in most ways. It makes much more sense to continue to shoot the apothecary as a result by your own argument.

The main reason I'm hesitant to bring an Apothecary for bringing back Paladins is the fact that he can't do anything if you fail the roll. That's a pretty major thing to just lose his combat punch for an entire turn, and as a GK player I don't have disposable command points to reroll that sort of stuff all game.

I would still take him to back up Draigo, as was mentioned earlier, but that's about it.

On another note, according to the FW FAQ's it looks like I was wrong about bringing FW SM tanks as Grey knight chapter. They cut out Deathwatch and Grey Knights. Oh well, no gate shenanigans I suppose.

And where is your math backing up this 3 extra units claim? Its very easy to come into a thread and claim your theory is better but you have yet to prove the merits. Auras are not hard to benefit from considering the fact Grey Knights already have few units to begin with, The biggest concern would be that once the charge has been made you may be out of aura range because there is a chance the ancient doesn't make the charge themselves.

The largest reason I disregard the apothecary is simply because his efficacy is dependent on the opponent having low quality weapons with which they will fail to kill a squad of X. This edition is very killy to the point I would build for bodies and buffs rather than pure point efficiency which ends up not being efficient.

Further you claim it is worse for a opponent to shoot an apothecary than a paladin, yet you say yourself the apothecary is more efficient in most ways. It makes much more sense to continue to shoot the apothecary as a result by your own argument.

Man, it's basic level math, you can do it yourself. Assuming 2 undamaged 5 man squads under his aura plus his attacks, the ancient averages 6.53 wounds vs light infantry and 4,31 vs armor, while the apothecary does 5,46 and 4.34 respectively. That makes the apothecary 15% more efficient in the first case and 40% more in the second.

It's very hard to have more than 2 units benefit from an aura when it only works in combat. The moment you have to charge a target it's likely they get split, and that's if everyone charges the same. The moment you want to charge different targets it's virtually impossible to keep several units under the aura, and really, if you are charging with 3 or 4 units into a single target, it's already dead. Furthermore, the apothecary is a pretty good threat on his own and you don't need it to charge the same unit as the paladins, while the ancient, both because of his aura and because how little damage he does by himself, it's pretty much forced to follow the paladins at every time.

As you seem to keep ignoring, I've already shown that the apothecary's efficiency only depends on how powerful he is by himself, not taking into account his special rules. But his special rule is really good and adds even more to a guy that's already good enough. You will easily get at least 2 heals, wich is worth a Paladin already. His revive ability is very risky to use if you don't have a reroll, but the reward is inmense and can turn around a tough situation giving you the extra damage and/or the extra charge distance. You just have to use it sensibly, but just the healing part is good enough anyway.

The apothecary is not only more efficient, but more durable. Shooting the apothecary has a higher chance of not killing him, meaning your damage potential remains undiminished, and giving you a perfect target for his healing (himself) because of his large wound pool (he can take advantage of a 3-wound heal and has a hicher chance to take advantage of a 2.wound one). If the opponent shoots the paladins instead, it's more likely that he kills a whole model, reducing your damage and the effectiveness of the apothecary's heal. The only situation in which it would be better to shoot the apothecary is if you have a high enough volume of fire that you can "guarantee" his death, but that situation is unlikely as he's a character so he will be usually be able to be shot by no more than a couple of units. Even in the case that the opponent can shoot them effectively, he's still cheaper than the paladins, so it's a win/win situation. But most of the time the opponent won't be able to shoot him at all, at least the first turns, so it's not a big point anyway.

How is everyone loading out their paladin squads?

How is everyone loading out their paladin squads?

For a 5 man, 2 hammers and 3 pairs of falchions. I've found that if they have a single hammer they lack punch, and with more than 2 they lack versatiliy and start becoming too expensive. If I use a 4 -man unit joined by an apothecary, only one hammer as the apothecary uses the second one. For shooting, always bolters.

3-man squads, 1 Hammer and 2 Falchions. Bolters for guns.

Is no one using heavy weapons at all on them? Not even psilencers? I thought a good load out would be 5 dudes, two hammers, three falchions, and two heavy guns.

Also this obviously depends on the opponent, but what power do you bring on them?

Lastly, I have thought about bringing not one but two apothecarys. That way dragio has one to buff him, and one to help the pallies. What do you all think? Plus it's another two smiles to shoot at things. Which is always good.

What do you guys think about purge soul? It seems to me that on things like gms or even Paladins the possible amount of mortal wounds you could put on a unit/ character is really deadly. One bad roll and a monster loses 4-5 wounds in a poof

Grey knight special wrapons are, sadly, very inefficient. Paying 8 extra points for a weapon that's slightly better than a storm bolter is just a waste of points. Psycannons are even worse. They are worse than the psilencer against anything multiwounded, an cost 10 points more. You should never take special weapons. I hope the codex changes this.

I pick hammerhand with them. They deploy along Draigo and/or the apothecary, so you will not have many problems gating them if needed, and hammerhand is really good on them. Every other unit in the army has GoI.

Apothecaries are always good, so no harm in having more of them, but it really depends on how many points you have. If you have the 100 points, the apothecary is really effective, but so is a razorback (if you have someone to embark on it). On smaller games, a unit of paladins + apothecary + Draigo is good enough, so it's probably better to spend the points somewhere else. In bigger games (1850+), I try to have an apothecary for each unit of paladins (so 2 most of the time). That way each squad can act independently, having enough power to kill most things and forcing your opponent to focus them or risk them getting healed, wasting their firepower.

Purge soul is great. It's usually better to use them to soften vehicles, as they are not easy to crack outside of combat, and they usually have reasonable leadership stats. Trying to use them on characters is not very effective unless they are already wounded, because thy have high leadership and will, most likely, not die, and you will not be able to finish them off because of the character rule. I have purge on Draigo and usually give him the +1L trait for that extra wound.

Hmm that's really kind of a bummer heavy weapons suck suck so much. I always thought they were so cool on our terminators. I'll probably still take them just because I like them and I'm stubborn like that.

Yeah I'm hoping the codex does a few things. Some kind of a defensive psychic power would be nice. Also maybe some kind of rule for psybolts. Those were always fun.

Basically my list is looking like two storm Ravens and two paladin squads with an apothecary for each. With dragio. Probably not as competitive or max efficiency as it could be but it's basically my favorite army. In the whole game "The shiny dozen"

So how do you guys organize charges? I watched a battle report and the guy basically deep struck or landed everything turn one right in front of the enemy. Then turn two charged and basically won the game. But his opponent was also clumped together. Which vs grey Knights is a terribly idea since we are so few yet so hard hitting. But what do we do if the opponent is super spread out? Should we keep our little hammer together buffed by our auras? Or should we spread out? Seems like staying together and deleting anything you touch is the best idea. By about turn 3 the enemy shouldn't have much left.

About charges, it depends on the enemy, but generally, the first turn deep strike the whole army won't work against a decent opponent, because he'll use scouts and screens of infantry to block you.

My army consists of 3 razorbacks with strikes, 2-dreads, 0-1 stormravens and 1-2 units of paladins depending on points.

You can advance with the whole army using smoke to position yourself, then 2nd turn set the deep strike units, disembark and do the alpha strike. If you deploy the paladins first turn, they won't be able to be supported and can be focused.

If the opponent's shooting is not that scary, you can shoot instead of using smoke and/or deploy the paladins first turn so they have a better chance of charging.

In both cases you can deploy all paladins together or split. It depends entirely on the opponent's army and deployment and how the objectives are set.

If the opponent is a close combat army with limited shooting, like tyranids, orks or harlequins, you want to maintain the distance for a couple turns and then use the Paladins and transport as roadblocks to give you some extra time or just disembark and finish them off, depending on the situation. If the opponent overextends, you can also deepstrike some paladins and/or a Gated unit (dreads are good for this) to destroy their backline.

Generally, you want to use the tankiness of the paladins and the mobility of the rest of your army to force the opponent to spread while your army stays together so you can focus on their units one by one. That's why paladins are so vital, because they are practically the only unit that can take care of themselves without support.

Apoth is garbage - Fail his roll to regen wounds and he does nothing that turn - let that sink in - HE DOES NOTHING. Factor that into the fact that for his price you could just take 2 paladins and it becomes a pretty easy choice not to include him. Ancients are also bad - their cost is absurd.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Apoth is garbage - Fail his roll to regen wounds and he does nothing that turn - let that sink in - HE DOES NOTHING. Factor that into the fact that for his price you could just take 2 paladins and it becomes a pretty easy choice not to include him. Ancients are also bad - their cost is absurd.

Apothecary and Ancients work well for me; I run 3x (5x Interceptors) so its pretty easy for me to get in range of the banner with other units. I spam Purge Soul, so the +1 leadership helps a lot, as does the additional attack.

Apothecary isn't necessary but its a Paladin + 1x Interceptor cost. They automatically can restore D3 wounds, they only roll for a resurrection. Feels fine for me.

Well I like the idea of keeping Paladins alive. So I'll probably try apthocarys out

How do you guys arm your storm Ravens? It would seem like pure anti armor style with las cannons and multi meltas is the best as that is what we lack. Plus the hurricane bolsters. Just to help clear away numbers. But then again that is super expensive. On mine I have an assault cannon and multi melta. And hurricanes.

Also just because we have a good conversation going. What would you guys like to see in the new codex to fill in our tactical gaps? For many reasons I want terminators to be able to take storm shields. Maybe only be allowed to take sword so you don't get any staff plus shield abuse. I don't know how GW made space marine Knights and gave them no shields. Except for dragio that is.

More questions. What do you guys think about taking staves in groups of power armor Knights for at least 1 5++? Can't imagine he would last longer but not by much. Do you think it's worth it?

Doesn't the staff only give +1 thus making a PAGK 6++? Probably won't do much.

I'd also like to see Storm Shields be available to Grey Knights. Just make it so we can't use Daemon Hammers or dual-wield Falchions with them and it seems O.K. to me. It's kinda silly that only Draigo has one, yet our non-psychic analogues (Custodes) can spam the darn things.

I would like it if Smite was unnerfed on our HQ's. I understand not wanting us to spam it, but psychic HQ's shouldn't be neutered like our rank and file. Even Voldus can't cast a full-powered Smite and he's supposed to be one of the most powerful Librarians alive!

Since we're likely getting more psychic powers too I'd welcome a return of Sanctuary to give our Dreadknights a 4++.

We could also probably do with a HQ who lets us re-roll charges, like Lemartes for the Blood Angels.

Audustum wrote:
Doesn't the staff only give +1 thus making a PAGK 6++? Probably won't do much.

I'd also like to see Storm Shields be available to Grey Knights. Just make it so we can't use Daemon Hammers or dual-wield Falchions with them and it seems O.K. to me. It's kinda silly that only Draigo has one, yet our non-psychic analogues (Custodes) can spam the darn things.

I would like it if Smite was unnerfed on our HQ's. I understand not wanting us to spam it, but psychic HQ's shouldn't be neutered like our rank and file. Even Voldus can't cast a full-powered Smite and he's supposed to be one of the most powerful Librarians alive!

Since we're likely getting more psychic powers too I'd welcome a return of Sanctuary to give our Dreadknights a 4++.

We could also probably do with a HQ who lets us re-roll charges, like Lemartes for the Blood Angels.

The staff gives 5++, or +1 to your invun if you already have one

I was thinking the same thing about unmodified smite. It seems silly that GMs and voldus can't cast it full strength.

Inquisitors get a full smite at 55 pts, the rites of banishment is purely due to it being available on all of our models.

I think the lack of stormshields hints heavily at psychic invul saves.

I feel great about the state of GK right now, but I always add them to Inquisition (which is in a tough spot). I'm curious to see the codex, hard to imagine taking pure GK though.

 The_Grey_Knight wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Doesn't the staff only give +1 thus making a PAGK 6++? Probably won't do much.

I'd also like to see Storm Shields be available to Grey Knights. Just make it so we can't use Daemon Hammers or dual-wield Falchions with them and it seems O.K. to me. It's kinda silly that only Draigo has one, yet our non-psychic analogues (Custodes) can spam the darn things.

I would like it if Smite was unnerfed on our HQ's. I understand not wanting us to spam it, but psychic HQ's shouldn't be neutered like our rank and file. Even Voldus can't cast a full-powered Smite and he's supposed to be one of the most powerful Librarians alive!

Since we're likely getting more psychic powers too I'd welcome a return of Sanctuary to give our Dreadknights a 4++.

We could also probably do with a HQ who lets us re-roll charges, like Lemartes for the Blood Angels.

The staff gives 5++, or +1 to your invun if you already have one

I stand corrected! Maybe worth it if you take 2. They'll only stop wounds 1/3 of the time.

How do you guys arm your storm Ravens? It would seem like pure anti armor style with las cannons and multi meltas is the best as that is what we lack. Plus the hurricane bolsters. Just to help clear away numbers. But then again that is super expensive. On mine I have an assault cannon and multi melta. And hurricanes.

I agree about going full antitank on the raven. The only armour you need to shoot down are dreadnought equivalents and transports, but you want to kill them early. The raven is perfect, as it packs enough concentrated firepower to destroy almost anything in a single turn (specially with Draigo nearby) and makes taking more antitank unnecesary. And of course, you always take hurricane bolters, they are so damn cheap.

About the wishlist for the new codex, they aren't giving us stormshields unless they change the terminator kit, and I don't think that's happening. Also I think is a good way to differentiate us from other terminators. If they were to gives us storm shields, I think it would have to be in the form of a new unit, paladin crusaders or something like that, with very limited gear options, probably just shields and sword to keep it balanced.

I'd like them to redo the NDK. Not only is he bland an uninteresing but also pretty terrible. I'd like if they make so they are playable but different from dreadnoughts so neither is clearly superior to the other.

They also need to fix HQs. We need some extra psychic powers, but that alone is not going to fix HQs, as you will just take Draigo + Voldus so you have all the powers and the rest of HQ would remain unplayable. I would in fact add pychic powers exclusive to librarians, although maybe that would make them mandatory. Some other auras or effects for the rest of HQ would be nice, or well, just make the brotherhood champion amazing in combat as it's supposed to be, but an "inspiration" aura would be pretty cool.

One of the most important things is increasing weapon variety. Now the only playable weapons are bolters and falchions (and hammers). It works well but it is not fun.

Also, I really really hope our unique stratagems are not all just stupid anti-demon stuff.

Audustum wrote:

 The_Grey_Knight wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Doesn't the staff only give +1 thus making a PAGK 6++? Probably won't do much.

I'd also like to see Storm Shields be available to Grey Knights. Just make it so we can't use Daemon Hammers or dual-wield Falchions with them and it seems O.K. to me. It's kinda silly that only Draigo has one, yet our non-psychic analogues (Custodes) can spam the darn things.

I would like it if Smite was unnerfed on our HQ's. I understand not wanting us to spam it, but psychic HQ's shouldn't be neutered like our rank and file. Even Voldus can't cast a full-powered Smite and he's supposed to be one of the most powerful Librarians alive!

Since we're likely getting more psychic powers too I'd welcome a return of Sanctuary to give our Dreadknights a 4++.

We could also probably do with a HQ who lets us re-roll charges, like Lemartes for the Blood Angels.

The staff gives 5++, or +1 to your invun if you already have one

I stand corrected! Maybe worth it if you take 2. They'll only stop wounds 1/3 of the time.

Our Librarians can take Storm Shields and Nemesis Staves now, due to unit consolidation. That's 2++ in melee.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 The_Grey_Knight wrote:

Audustum wrote:
Doesn't the staff only give +1 thus making a PAGK 6++? Probably won't do much.

I'd also like to see Storm Shields be available to Grey Knights. Just make it so we can't use Daemon Hammers or dual-wield Falchions with them and it seems O.K. to me. It's kinda silly that only Draigo has one, yet our non-psychic analogues (Custodes) can spam the darn things.

I would like it if Smite was unnerfed on our HQ's. I understand not wanting us to spam it, but psychic HQ's shouldn't be neutered like our rank and file. Even Voldus can't cast a full-powered Smite and he's supposed to be one of the most powerful Librarians alive!

Since we're likely getting more psychic powers too I'd welcome a return of Sanctuary to give our Dreadknights a 4++.

We could also probably do with a HQ who lets us re-roll charges, like Lemartes for the Blood Angels.

The staff gives 5++, or +1 to your invun if you already have one

I stand corrected! Maybe worth it if you take 2. They'll only stop wounds 1/3 of the time.

Our Librarians can take Storm Shields and Nemesis Staves now, due to unit consolidation. That's 2++ in melee.

SJ

Yeah, though I thought we were only talking about PAGK.

I love that our Librarians can take them, but I think rather than encourage that GW will take it away from us when our Codex is released :(.