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That was actually very well explained and to me makes a lot of sense.

I was originally panning on Scions with melta and plasma to drop in and kill stuff. At least hard targets.

I hate making choices sometimes lol.

 TheMostWize wrote:
That was actually very well explained and to me makes a lot of sense.

I was originally panning on Scions with melta and plasma to drop in and kill stuff. At least hard targets.

I hate making choices sometimes lol.

Haha, but at least it gets us playing! All the variants of my lists are what make me excited to try them out.

I was looking at Scions for the same thing too (plus cheap troop filling to cram a battalion in there). I'd also recommend looking at the humble Skitarii Ranger. They're about 50 points base and can take 2 specials per 5 (especially that Transauranic Arquebus).

I think the biggest struggle for pure gk is getting anti armor unless stormravens are the absolute solution to that.

Doomglaives/Riflemen dreads seem like another logical option. I am building 15 paladins and have 2 doomglaives to build because of the visuals of the army. Gotta figure out how to fit anti armor in here.

I dunno how much the Dreads cost, but 5 units of 3 Pallies with 1 hammer each is just a bit shy of 1k, right? Add in Dreads and HQ's and I'd say you should look at suicide Scion squads (which you are) maybe a single Stormraven or Tarantula Sentry Guns, which get you an immobile, but Hardy unit with a lascannon for only like 60 points.

EDIT: Whoops, right, pure GK is what we're talking about. Adding in MORE Dreads or the Stormraven are the only real good option I've seen. Some people say you can take a veritable horde of Strikes and some Brother-Captains to just mortal wound spam armor to death though.

Razorback lascannons are the other effective choice for AT. Relatively cheap for a durable, mobile platform with two shots, even if you don't use the transport capacity. I'd say most GK armies could use a backfield objective sitter or two as well.

Currently converting a couple of Rhinos using spare Stormraven hvy weapons.

Audustum wrote:
I dunno how much the Dreads cost, but 5 units of 3 Pallies with 1 hammer each is just a bit shy of 1k, right? Add in Dreads and HQ's and I'd say you should look at suicide Scion squads (which you are) maybe a single Stormraven or Tarantula Sentry Guns, which get you an immobile, but Hardy unit with a lascannon for only like 60 points.

EDIT: Whoops, right, pure GK is what we're talking about. Adding in MORE Dreads or the Stormraven are the only real good option I've seen. Some people say you can take a veritable horde of Strikes and some Brother-Captains to just mortal wound spam armor to death though.

Your sitting at 1080 with Voldus and 5 3 man terminator squads w/ hammer and falchions. At that point though your looking at another entire detachment to get Dreads in. Which means another HQ.

Just threw this together for a Paladin heavy list at 2k.


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [55 PL, 1100pts] ++

+ HQ +

Lord Kaldor Daigo [12 PL, 240pts]: Gate of Infinity, Purge Soul

+ Elites +

Doomglaive Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: Gate of Infinity, Heavy psycannon, Incinerator, Nemesis doomglaive

Doomglaive Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: Gate of Infinity, Heavy psycannon, Incinerator, Nemesis doomglaive

Paladin Squad [10 PL, 178pts]: Hammerhand
. 2x Paladin (Falchions): 2x Storm Bolter
. Paragon: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

+ Flyer +

Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 322pts]: 2x Hurricane Bolter, 2x Stormstrike Missile Launcher, Twin Lascannon, Typhoon Missile Launcher

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [53 PL, 895pts] ++

+ HQ +

Grand Master Voldus [10 PL, 190pts]: Gate of Infinity, Hammerhand, Purge Soul

+ Elites +

Apothecary [5 PL, 103pts]: Hammerhand, Nemesis Daemon Hammer

Paladin Squad [19 PL, 306pts]: Hammerhand
. 3x Paladin (Falchions): 3x Storm Bolter
. Paladin (Psycannon): Nemesis Force Sword, Psycannon (Terminator)
. Paragon: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

Paladin Squad [19 PL, 296pts]: Hammerhand
. 3x Paladin (Falchions): 3x Storm Bolter
. Paladin (Psilencer): Nemesis Force Sword, Psilencer (Terminator)
. Paragon: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter

++ Total: [108 PL, 1995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Draigo, Voldus, Apoth and 3 man Pallies in Stormraven with Dread. Other Dread starts on board and gates. Other 2 swuad teleport in turn 1.

See my math on pg. 9 regarding Psilencer vs. Psycannon

Nairul wrote:
See my math on pg. 9 regarding Psilencer vs. Psycannon

I'm on the Psilencer train. I only added the cannons for dealing with higher toughness like 6 and 7. It is probably not worth it though because now that you say that didn't you show that up to toughness 7 the psilencer is still more effective?

I'm not saying it's 'cheap' but my current build puts a pair of God hammer landraiders, a lascannon dread and a stormraven on the board. You'd be amazed at how much anti armour 12 lascannon, three melta's and some storms trike missiles bring to a game, especially on some pretty tough hulls.

 TheMostWize wrote:

Nairul wrote:
See my math on pg. 9 regarding Psilencer vs. Psycannon

I'm on the Psilencer train. I only added the cannons for dealing with higher toughness like 6 and 7. It is probably not worth it though because now that you say that didn't you show that up to toughness 7 the psilencer is still more effective?

Yep. Here's the breakdown on Psilencer vs. Psycannon in terms of damage output.

Against T3: Psilencer wins
Against T4: Psilencer wins
Against T5: Tie
Against T6: Tie
Against T7: Psilencer wins
Against T8: Psycannon wins

Then realize the Psycannon is the more expensive wargear... and the Psilencer becomes a no-brainer. I've been saying it for 10 pages now! This gun is the hidden gem of our codex. In my experience, at first glance my opponents seem to care less about this petty Strength 4 gun.

But then turn 1 you alpha strike everything near one flank. My competitive list contains 60 Psilencer shots in total, re-rolling misses thanks to Draigo. Watch the fear in their eyes as their big units get slowly chipped away by D3 damage rolls, smites, and good ol' Storm Bolter rapid fire.

Nairul wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:

Nairul wrote:
See my math on pg. 9 regarding Psilencer vs. Psycannon

I'm on the Psilencer train. I only added the cannons for dealing with higher toughness like 6 and 7. It is probably not worth it though because now that you say that didn't you show that up to toughness 7 the psilencer is still more effective?

Yep. Here's the breakdown on Psilencer vs. Psycannon in terms of damage output.

Against T3: Psilencer wins
Against T4: Psilencer wins
Against T5: Tie
Against T6: Tie
Against T7: Psilencer wins
Against T8: Psycannon wins

Then realize the Psycannon is the more expensive wargear... and the Psilencer becomes a no-brainer. I've been saying it for 10 pages now! This gun is the hidden gem of our codex. In my experience, at first glance my opponents seem to care less about this petty Strength 4 gun.

But then turn 1 you alpha strike everything near one flank. My competitive list contains 60 Psilencer shots in total, re-rolling misses thanks to Draigo. Watch the fear in their eyes as their big units get slowly chipped away by D3 damage rolls, smites, and good ol' Storm Bolter rapid fire.

Yea. I'm nervous the new codex is going to change something and they won't be as good anymore.

Oh well guess of it does I'll just tear em apart and make the needed changes. Going to magnetize the psilencer arm anyway.

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The other day my GK went against a friend's BA and on turn 2 I dropped a stormraven's payload of 2 purifier squads, Coteaz, and an Astropath in front of his untouched death company. These guys also came in near my bro-cap warlord and my ancient. Psychic Phase: The Astropath and Coteaz both successfully reduced leadership values (-3 is nasty on a Ld 7 unit), we spammed our smites (purifiers are awesome.), and then the Bro-Cap went to drop Purge Soul. My friend allowed me the more generous interpretation, and thus my Ld was 11 vs. his 4. It was a slaughter, but I can't help but feel we ran it incorrectly.

edit: I already see we goofed the astropath into the vehicle. Strike one.

Two units can't cast the same power in the same turn (except for Smite). Strike two, sadly.

Hi guys,

Wouldn't normally post a list in the tactis thread howeber just about to push play on buying some Grey Knight models and want to make sure I don't make any critical mistakes when modelling the load outs!

The other thing I was consider was dropping a DK and picking up a FW Dreadnought?

Grey Knights

Lord Kaldor Draigo 240

5 Paladins: Paragon (Nemesis Daemon hammer); 4 Paladins; Nemesis warding stave; Nemesis Daemon hammer; 2 × 2 Nemesis falchions; 4 × storm bolter; psycannon 321

Paladin Ancient 142

Apothecary: Nemesis Daemon hammer 103

3 Paladins: Paragon; 2 Paladins; Nemesis warding stave; 2 Nemesis falchions; incinerator 181

3 Paladins: Paragon; 2 Paladins; Nemesis warding stave; 2 Nemesis falchions; incinerator 181

Nemesis Dreadknight: dreadfist & Nemesis greatsword; heavy incinerator; heavy psycannon; Dreadknight teleporter 245

Nemesis Dreadknight: dreadfist & Nemesis greatsword; heavy incinerator; heavy psycannon; Dreadknight teleporter 245

Stormraven Gunship: twin lascannon; twin multi-melta; 2 hurricane bolters 326

1,984 points

Skip the NDK in my opinion at this current point dreads are better.

 daedalus wrote:
Two units can't cast the same power in the same turn (except for Smite). Strike two, sadly.

The Astropath and Coteaz cast two different powers. Terrify & terrifying visions. Both do leadership modifications.

As Smotejob says, Terrify and Terrifying Visions are different schools/powers and so stack. I know I'm still learning, but I did get that part right.

 TheMostWize wrote:
Skip the NDK in my opinion at this current point dreads are better.

Gunna have to disagree with you there. I'd take a NDK over a dread any day. Personal teleporters allow them to synergize so much better with Draigo.

Nairul wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:
Skip the NDK in my opinion at this current point dreads are better.

Gunna have to disagree with you there. I'd take a NDK over a dread any day. Personal teleporters allow them to synergize so much better with Draigo.

A doomglaive brought on a storm Raven is awesome. But I still like dread knights.. but don't so heavily arm my dread knight anymore. I'm just taking an incinerator these days for guns. His ballistic skill drops too much and gets stuck in combat to often to justify two guns. When his bs drops from wounds his incinerator keeps a steady output.

I like to take one of each.

 Smotejob wrote:

Nairul wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:
Skip the NDK in my opinion at this current point dreads are better.

Gunna have to disagree with you there. I'd take a NDK over a dread any day. Personal teleporters allow them to synergize so much better with Draigo.

A doomglaive brought on a storm Raven is awesome. But I still like dread knights.. but don't so heavily arm my dread knight anymore. I'm just taking an incinerator these days for guns. His ballistic skill drops too much and gets stuck in combat to often to justify two guns. When his bs drops from wounds his incinerator keeps a steady output.

I like to take one of each.

However you'd NEED a Stormraven for each one.

I'd go with the thought you can get away with a Dread for each raven, and then go for dreadknights.

Thanks guys I think I will just go with one NDK and one DN to fly in the Stormraven. That always adds a little variety into the list which helps when playing fun games.

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The two abilities don't interact, you ether use your own leadership (with the +1) or the inquisitor's one.

The purge soul situation is cool, but is absolutely overkill. Just draigo and the Paladins would have massacred the company anyway.

Why are you guys under the impression that you need a transport for the dread? Between advancing turn one and GoI I have no problems moving them across the board. There's no reason ever to take the NDK over a dread or a paladin squad.

Seizeman wrote:

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The two abilities don't interact, you ether use your own leadership (with the +1) or the inquisitor's one.

The purge soul situation is cool, but is absolutely overkill. Just draigo and the Paladins would have massacred the company anyway.

Why are you guys under the impression that you need a transport for the dread? Between advancing turn one and GoI I have no problems moving them across the board. There's no reason ever to take the NDK over a dread or a paladin squad.

I agree with this sentiment. The stormraven is great for one dread. Also I think NDKs are way overcosted for what they bring. Your paying an extra 65 points for what amounts to 4 wounds. Doomglaives have a better BS/WS that doesn't deteriorate as he loses wounds. NDK has +1 save, Doomglaive has +1 toughness. Firepower is equal. But the Doomglaive ends up being more consistent in combat do to stat loss on the NDK. Based on the stats anyway.

1 Doomglaive in a stormraven one GoI to the deep striking paladins.

If you want to run a NDK go for it just saying dreads are proving to be much more point effective at this point.

 TheMostWize wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The two abilities don't interact, you ether use your own leadership (with the +1) or the inquisitor's one.

The purge soul situation is cool, but is absolutely overkill. Just draigo and the Paladins would have massacred the company anyway.

Why are you guys under the impression that you need a transport for the dread? Between advancing turn one and GoI I have no problems moving them across the board. There's no reason ever to take the NDK over a dread or a paladin squad.

I agree with this sentiment. The stormraven is great for one dread. Also I think NDKs are way overcosted for what they bring. Your paying an extra 65 points for what amounts to 4 wounds. Doomglaives have a better BS/WS that doesn't deteriorate as he loses wounds. NDK has +1 save, Doomglaive has +1 toughness. Firepower is equal. But the Doomglaive ends up being more consistent in combat do to stat loss on the NDK. Based on the stats anyway.

1 Doomglaive in a stormraven one GoI to the deep striking paladins.

If you want to run a NDK go for it just saying dreads are proving to be much more point effective at this point.

You're also paying more for more natural mobility. That's always going to be worth the price

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The two abilities don't interact, you ether use your own leadership (with the +1) or the inquisitor's one.

The purge soul situation is cool, but is absolutely overkill. Just draigo and the Paladins would have massacred the company anyway.

Why are you guys under the impression that you need a transport for the dread? Between advancing turn one and GoI I have no problems moving them across the board. There's no reason ever to take the NDK over a dread or a paladin squad.

I agree with this sentiment. The stormraven is great for one dread. Also I think NDKs are way overcosted for what they bring. Your paying an extra 65 points for what amounts to 4 wounds. Doomglaives have a better BS/WS that doesn't deteriorate as he loses wounds. NDK has +1 save, Doomglaive has +1 toughness. Firepower is equal. But the Doomglaive ends up being more consistent in combat do to stat loss on the NDK. Based on the stats anyway.

1 Doomglaive in a stormraven one GoI to the deep striking paladins.

If you want to run a NDK go for it just saying dreads are proving to be much more point effective at this point.

You're also paying more for more natural mobility. That's always going to be worth the price

1) I consider the most cost-efficient loadout of the NDK to be Gatling Psilencer/Heavy Psycannon. So that's 45 extra points.
2) How could you say firepower is equal? It's not.
3) +1 save will always be useful, whereas +1 toughness may not matter.

Space marine dreads are more efficent but greyknight dreads are totally trash. +20 points for a 1 damage smite is NOT good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is a doom glaive?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Space marine dreads are more efficent but greyknight dreads are totally trash. +20 points for a 1 damage smite is NOT good.

Well we're talking specifically about the Doomglaive... which unlike the other GK Dreads (trash I agree!) knows 1 power from Sanctic discipline, allowing it to GoI around the board.

 Xenomancers wrote:
What is a doom glaive?

It's one of those Forgeworld units. You wouldn't like it.

Nairul wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The two abilities don't interact, you ether use your own leadership (with the +1) or the inquisitor's one.

The purge soul situation is cool, but is absolutely overkill. Just draigo and the Paladins would have massacred the company anyway.

Why are you guys under the impression that you need a transport for the dread? Between advancing turn one and GoI I have no problems moving them across the board. There's no reason ever to take the NDK over a dread or a paladin squad.

I agree with this sentiment. The stormraven is great for one dread. Also I think NDKs are way overcosted for what they bring. Your paying an extra 65 points for what amounts to 4 wounds. Doomglaives have a better BS/WS that doesn't deteriorate as he loses wounds. NDK has +1 save, Doomglaive has +1 toughness. Firepower is equal. But the Doomglaive ends up being more consistent in combat do to stat loss on the NDK. Based on the stats anyway.

1 Doomglaive in a stormraven one GoI to the deep striking paladins.

If you want to run a NDK go for it just saying dreads are proving to be much more point effective at this point.

You're also paying more for more natural mobility. That's always going to be worth the price

1) I consider the most cost-efficient loadout of the NDK to be Gatling Psilencer/Heavy Psycannon. So that's 45 extra points.
2) How could you say firepower is equal? It's not.
3) +1 save will always be useful, whereas +1 toughness may not matter.

You are correct I was assuming both were bringing incinerators.

That being said while the NDK is tougher the Doomglaive has proven to be able to kill just as efficiently but for less points. If a 168 point model can kill as many models as a 200+ point model in less turns why wouldn't you save the points? Sure the NDK might be around and extra turn but the effectiveness of it drops once it drops half its wounds means your now hitting on 5s if you move. That is horrible in my opinion. Its already hitting on 4s if it moves and fires. The fact that the Doomglaive can move and hit on 3s is hugely beneficial. Plus it hits on 2s in combat which turns into more kills in combat.

 TheMostWize wrote:

Nairul wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Hey guys, quick question. How does an inquisitor's Unquestionable Wisdom ability interact with our Ancient's Banner? Does the offering of leadership value replace your base or modified value, or rather, do we get a leadership value of 9, then the +1 from our banner?

The two abilities don't interact, you ether use your own leadership (with the +1) or the inquisitor's one.

The purge soul situation is cool, but is absolutely overkill. Just draigo and the Paladins would have massacred the company anyway.

Why are you guys under the impression that you need a transport for the dread? Between advancing turn one and GoI I have no problems moving them across the board. There's no reason ever to take the NDK over a dread or a paladin squad.

I agree with this sentiment. The stormraven is great for one dread. Also I think NDKs are way overcosted for what they bring. Your paying an extra 65 points for what amounts to 4 wounds. Doomglaives have a better BS/WS that doesn't deteriorate as he loses wounds. NDK has +1 save, Doomglaive has +1 toughness. Firepower is equal. But the Doomglaive ends up being more consistent in combat do to stat loss on the NDK. Based on the stats anyway.

1 Doomglaive in a stormraven one GoI to the deep striking paladins.

If you want to run a NDK go for it just saying dreads are proving to be much more point effective at this point.

You're also paying more for more natural mobility. That's always going to be worth the price

1) I consider the most cost-efficient loadout of the NDK to be Gatling Psilencer/Heavy Psycannon. So that's 45 extra points.
2) How could you say firepower is equal? It's not.
3) +1 save will always be useful, whereas +1 toughness may not matter.

You are correct I was assuming both were bringing incinerators.

That being said while the NDK is tougher the Doomglaive has proven to be able to kill just as efficiently but for less points. If a 168 point model can kill as many models as a 200+ point model in less turns why wouldn't you save the points? Sure the NDK might be around and extra turn but the effectiveness of it drops once it drops half its wounds means your now hitting on 5s if you move. That is horrible in my opinion. Its already hitting on 4s if it moves and fires. The fact that the Doomglaive can move and hit on 3s is hugely beneficial. Plus it hits on 2s in combat which turns into more kills in combat.

I like to have one of each so far. Since you can only GOI one unit a turn, the deep strike on a dreadknight can be useful alongside a goi doomglaive dreadnought.

I don't take ballistic skill guns on the dreadknight anymore.... just been missing too much for me to justify it on a platform that wants to be moving. These two on a flank can chew it up/pressure it pretty well.