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Thefriendlygrot wrote:
I assume Grey Knights lose the Heed the Prognosticar’s buff if they use Gate of Infinity because of the BRB FAQ. Is that how everyone here sees it?

Hadnt thought of that but yeah. I thought that was a weird ruling tbh, not sure what was being abused for them to rule that way

Where is the rule or can someone summarize it?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Where is the rule or can someone summarize it?

Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield
and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects
(for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of
an ability)?
A: No

I hadn't noticed that question. Thank you.

I will admit that Heed hasn't been one of my most used stratagems simply due to not having enough CPs. I have mostly used it when I'm already on the board (GMDK) and just wanted some extra armor to survive to the next round.

I like you give it to a grand Master dk to get him that 3++ then sanctuary another gmdk so I have two of them at 3++... But now gate of infinity kills it. : ( GW keeps nerfing us little by little.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:



Also has anyone considered just making 6 man strike squads and interceptors? It really raises the PL of the army and would allow us to drop more models from deepstrike without too much more in point costs. Strike squads go from 7 PL to 14PL with that extra model.

And two squads fit perfectly in a storm raven...

 Smotejob wrote:
I like you give it to a grand Master dk to get him that 3++ then sanctuary another gmdk so I have two of them at 3++... But now gate of infinity kills it. : ( GW keeps nerfing us little by little.

Just cast sanctuary on the one that's gating and give heed to the one that isn't

Edit: just remembered this doesn't work if the one that isn't gating is deepstriking

What are the top tier units to use for Grey Knights? I think they were Grand Masters in Nemesis Dreadknight armor and Strike Squads. What are they now with the update?

BillyN831 wrote:
What are the top tier units to use for Grey Knights? I think they were Grand Masters in Nemesis Dreadknight armor and Strike Squads. What are they now with the update?

Grandmaster Dreadknights, Strike Squads, and Interceptor Squads. Then you have the middling Paladins and Purgator Squads and Draigo. Ignore anything else.

few list from tourneys that I would like to share

https://diceshot.com/category/grey-knight/

Bossanovee wrote:
few list from tourneys that I would like to share

https://diceshot.com/category/grey-knight/

Great, but it kinda sucks that we have to include a batallion of IG to work..

I'd imagine those tournaments weren't running the beta deep strike rule ?

Would a Rhino be viable in updated lists? Or at least a single one if it fills up 2000 points?

It depends on the rest of the list. If you're just looking to spend points then you'd be better buying a couple more troops.

List from London GT. Player going essentially pure GK. Should be interesting to see how it turns out.

Player name: Michael Cook

Army Faction: Grey Knights

Total command points: 8

Total army points: 1999

Battalion Detachment [1284] +5cp

HQ1: Grand Master Nemesis DreadKnight [190] + gatling psilencer + Heavy Psycannon + Nemesis Great sword + teleporter [260] – WARLORD (first to the fray)

HQ2: Kaldor Draigo [240]

Troop1: 5 Strike squad [95] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters [105]

Troop2: 5 Strike squad [95] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters [105]

Troop3: 5 Grey Knight terminators [205] – 4 Halberds (0), Hammer, 5 storm bolters [228]

Flyer1: Stormraven gunship [192] – Twin multimelta, Twin lascannon, 2 x stormstrike missiles + 2 Hurricane bolters [346]

Outrider Detachment [503] +1cp

HQ1: Brother Champion [113] – Nemesis force sword (0), storm bolter [115]

Fast1: 5 Interceptor squad [115] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters[125]

Fast2: 5 Interceptor squad [115] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters[125]

Fast3: 5 Interceptor squad [115] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters, [125]

Auxiliary detachment [225] -1cp

Hq1: Saint Celestine [200] + Gemini [25]  

Thenord wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
few list from tourneys that I would like to share

https://diceshot.com/category/grey-knight/

Great, but it kinda sucks that we have to include a batallion of IG to work..

Or some tactical marines.... Interesting choice from the guy who ran UM

Bartali wrote:I'd imagine those tournaments weren't running the beta deep strike rule ?

Going by the third list which had a soup detatchment with Assasins in, I'd guess not

 Zarroc1733 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Where is the rule or can someone summarize it?

Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield
and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects
(for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of
an ability)?
A: No

Well damn, that will really hurt my list.The 2+ save was really helping my lists survivability by turning the GMDK in a firepower sponge

 GuardStrider wrote:

 Zarroc1733 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Where is the rule or can someone summarize it?

Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield
and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects
(for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of
an ability)?
A: No

Well damn, that will really hurt my list.The 2+ save was really helping my lists survivability by turning the GMDK in a firepower sponge

Gate isn’t a Stratagem so it shouldn’t have any effect on bonus already applied by a Stratagem. At least, not per the quoted Q&A.

SJ

There is an extropolation that removing a model from the board (which GoI does) removes any effects that the model had on it previously. So putting +1 Sv on a model and then removing the model from the board via GoI would then remove the +1 persistant effect.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
There is an extropolation that removing a model from the board (which GoI does) removes any effects that the model had on it previously. So putting +1 Sv on a model and then removing the model from the board via GoI would then remove the +1 persistant effect.

Is that fair though? To make the assumption that is what is implied? Or should we take the question as it was asked and apply it only to the ruling of strategems.

If you want to be very legal about it then all answers are only to be applied to the specific (and narrow) scope of the question asked. Most people will make a logical jump and say that if an answer applies to a specific situation and there is a similar situation that arises then the same answer should apply.

The answer says that if a model is removed from the board then all persistant effects on that model are no longer available when the model "reappears" on the board. GoI literally says to remove the unit from the board and then place it back onto the board. This seems to be analagous to the Q&A. As such, it is reasonable to assume that the same answer would apply to GoI. If you're unsure then feel free to ask the TO or your opponent how they would rule.

 TheMostWize wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
There is an extropolation that removing a model from the board (which GoI does) removes any effects that the model had on it previously. So putting +1 Sv on a model and then removing the model from the board via GoI would then remove the +1 persistant effect.

Is that fair though? To make the assumption that is what is implied? Or should we take the question as it was asked and apply it only to the ruling of strategems.

It seems no bigger a jump than using the Death Guard FAQ answer allowing a stratagem to be used to take non-warlord faction relics being applied to every faction in the game.

The issue has more to do with GW’s poor use of language. The Q&A could have answered that any effect that removes a model from the table will also remover any persistent effect on that model regardless of whether or not the model is immediately returned to the table. But they didn’t. They answered a specific question with a specific answer, while ignoring how else they could have/should have answered to address the wider, more general question. Add to the situation that GW has contradictory rules in their Q&A’s, we cannot just apply a specific ruling to a general category.

That’s why the response is problematic.

SJ

That's why I said that you should talk it over with the TO or your opponent. My stance would be that it does apply to other effects.

 TheMostWize wrote:
List from London GT. Player going essentially pure GK. Should be interesting to see how it turns out.

Player name: Michael Cook

Army Faction: Grey Knights

Total command points: 8

Total army points: 1999

Battalion Detachment [1284] +5cp

HQ1: Grand Master Nemesis DreadKnight [190] + gatling psilencer + Heavy Psycannon + Nemesis Great sword + teleporter [260] – WARLORD (first to the fray)

HQ2: Kaldor Draigo [240]

Troop1: 5 Strike squad [95] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters [105]

Troop2: 5 Strike squad [95] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters [105]

Troop3: 5 Grey Knight terminators [205] – 4 Halberds (0), Hammer, 5 storm bolters [228]

Flyer1: Stormraven gunship [192] – Twin multimelta, Twin lascannon, 2 x stormstrike missiles + 2 Hurricane bolters [346]

Outrider Detachment [503] +1cp

HQ1: Brother Champion [113] – Nemesis force sword (0), storm bolter [115]

Fast1: 5 Interceptor squad [115] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters[125]

Fast2: 5 Interceptor squad [115] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters[125]

Fast3: 5 Interceptor squad [115] – 5 Twin falchions (0), 5 Storm bolters, [125]

Auxiliary detachment [225] -1cp

Hq1: Saint Celestine [200] + Gemini [25]  

I like this list minus the terminators. Maybe they will do work.

The maths is a bit off for that list isn't it? Its going to a GT?

Stormraven should be 358 points, and the GMDK is missing the mandatory dreadfist, so should be 285.

Has anyone tried out a Libby with a stormshield + staff + curiass of sacrifice? Can tank like a boss I would assume. Or use storm shield + heed the prognisticars + curiass + falcions?

Could use him like a lone wolf, just go off on his own since he doesn't actually benefit the rest of the army.

 Smotejob wrote:
Has anyone tried out a Libby with a stormshield + staff + curiass of sacrifice? Can tank like a boss I would assume. Or use storm shield + heed the prognisticars + curiass + falcions?

Could use him like a lone wolf, just go off on his own since he doesn't actually benefit the rest of the army.

I liked the stave / shield combo when he could tank for other characters, but now that he can't, it's less appealing. I can't see too many situations where I'd want my libby going solo enough to sink extra points / CP into him - I think it's probably easier and more cost efficient just to screen him with other units

Just trying to think of ways to use my Libby I spent time and energy converting a while back. He is pretty useless right now with other grey knights on the field.

In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

What gave you a boost in survivability?