8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

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**Homeskillet**

Elric Greywolf wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
Absolutely! GK do bolters like nobody else

Sadly, with the release of Deathwatch, this is definitely not the case. Special issue ammo, with the stratagem of Deep Strike, means that Intercessors are incredibly better at shooting and surviving than PAGK.

Bah, you got me there. Not gonna lie, I really want to put together some Primaris Kill Teams to go with my GK...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I experimented with a GK Air Force yesterday. In a 2k game, I took an Air Wing Detachment of a Stormraven (Lascannons/ Multi-melta/Hurricanes) and 2 Stormtalons (Typhoon Missiles). I filled out my army with a GK Battalion of Voldus, a Techmarine, 3 5 man Strike Squads, 2 Purgation Squads with Psilencers, and a brick of 6 Paladins with 2 Psilencers. We played a Maelstrom Mission from Chapter Approved, and it was against a Death Guard Poxwalker/Blight Drone list. We had a great game, I was behind on Objective points at the end, but the last turn I finished him off, tabling the Death Guard. I was very skeptical a GK flyer list would do much, but against this particular list the flyers wreaked havoc strafing around the board.

**Smotejob**

Homeskillet wrote:
Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in these models over the hurricane?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in the shield captains over the hurricane bolter?

Absolutely! GK do bolters like nobody else, so there was no reason to add a few more in the Shield Captains. The Salvo Launchers are fantastic anti-tank/anti-monster. I would typically shoot all three at one vehicle/monster, then charge them each into something else. If I were taking the Captains in an AM Army, maybe I'd go with bolters, but with GK, the Salvo Launchers were a great addition.

Went to a tournament yesterday, just to observe, and all but one imperium player had 3x shield captains on a bike. Nerf bat incoming on those in the future?

I was comparing them to our grandmasters. They are 2 pts cheaper than our grand Master, have more attacks, reroll wounds, more str, more wounds, more toughness, move almost 3x faster, can fly so can't get bogged down and has the equivalent of three of our guns.

Make our GM either like 120-130points stock or make custodes shield Capt on a bike 200ish stock.

In fact, they are as tough as our dreadknight, and can hide behind a wall of guardsmen for a turn or two before the charge. Amazing unit at that cost.

**Homeskillet**

Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in these models over the hurricane?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in the shield captains over the hurricane bolter?

Absolutely! GK do bolters like nobody else, so there was no reason to add a few more in the Shield Captains. The Salvo Launchers are fantastic anti-tank/anti-monster. I would typically shoot all three at one vehicle/monster, then charge them each into something else. If I were taking the Captains in an AM Army, maybe I'd go with bolters, but with GK, the Salvo Launchers were a great addition.

Went to a tournament yesterday, just to observe, and all but one imperium player had 3x shield captains on a bike. Nerf bat incoming on those in the future?

I was comparing them to our grandmasters. They are 2 pts cheaper than our grand Master, have more attacks, reroll wounds, more str, more wounds, more toughness, move almost 3x faster, can fly so can't get bogged down and has the equivalent of three of our guns.

Make our GM either like 120-130points stock or make custodes shield Capt on a bike 200ish stock.

In fact, they are as tough as our dreadknight, and can hide behind a wall of guardsmen for a turn or two before the charge. Amazing unit at that cost.

I agree on all counts; I would bet they'll see an increase in points. I wouldn't think any nerfs to abilities, but certainly a points increase. Or maybe a points decrease on Grandmasters? Ha ha ha, we know that won't happen!

**Smotejob**

Oh man wouldn't that be nice! 120ish point grandmasters? Whoa. And that would only be 2 points cheaper than a stock shield captain on foot.

**GuardStrider**

So, what FW you want coming to GK?

I am pretty sure we will get the vanilla space marine dreadnought range (contemptor, etc...) so I like the idea of us getting Deredeo pattern Dreadnought though I confess I don't know how well it performs in the field as FW stuff is rare on my meta

**grouchoben**

Deredeo is legit, and a great counter to Eldar flyers.

**Spartacus**

Grey Knights were formed after the golden age of the Legions. I believe that's why they were exempted specifically from taking most of the Relic Heresy-Era SM stuff from the IA Index, wouldn't expect that to change any time soon.

**Leo_the_Rat**

I think that there are only 3 models that FW makes for GK. The dread with the psycannon/can opener, the Land Raider with a psycannon and, a thunderhawk.

I could be wrong but those are the only models I can remember.

edit: found a 4th model a razorback with a psycannon.

Not really a whole lot to look forward to IMHO.

**GuardStrider**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I think that there are only 3 models that FW makes for GK. The dread with the psycannon/can opener, the Land Raider with a psycannon and, a thunderhawk.

I could be wrong but those are the only models I can remember.

edit: found a 4th model a razorback with a psycannon.

Not really a whole lot to look forward to IMHO.

Well they said updates for the existing range AND new datasheets, so I assume we will get something more

**Spartacus**

GuardStrider wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I think that there are only 3 models that FW makes for GK. The dread with the psycannon/can opener, the Land Raider with a psycannon and, a thunderhawk.

I could be wrong but those are the only models I can remember.

edit: found a 4th model a razorback with a psycannon.

Not really a whole lot to look forward to IMHO.

Well they said updates for the existing range AND new datasheets, so I assume we will get something more

Certainly not impossible that we get access to other SM stuff. Its just nearly everything FW makes for Marines is either Relic/Heresy era or heavy support, not suited to Grey Knights doctrine. It would kinda fly in the face of fluff, which is not FW's style. A few extra LR/Thunderhawk variants perhaps?

On the other hand, maybe they got a lot of negative feedback when GK were exempted from all the cool Relic stuff, or maybe they just need to sell more stuff

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I hope they give us 'Mortis' Dreads - All hail the psybolt rifleman dreadnought!

**GuardStrider**

I mean forgive my ignorance as I am not that familiar with the immediate post-Heresy period but I assume that the loss of technology was slow and gradual not immediate, 2nd founding chapters still having access to some heresy era technology is not that far-fetched and GK technically were founded in the final stages of the heresy (when Malcador sealed Titan, before Horus invaded Terra) therefore they still could perfectly have access to Heresy era tech.

Otherwise then every one of those dreads would be marines from the Heresy era and Bjorns thing of being the oldest living dread who witnessed the Primarchs, Emperor, etc.... wouldn't make as much sense.

**Smotejob**

Spartacus wrote:
GuardStrider wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I think that there are only 3 models that FW makes for GK. The dread with the psycannon/can opener, the Land Raider with a psycannon and, a thunderhawk.

I could be wrong but those are the only models I can remember.

edit: found a 4th model a razorback with a psycannon.

Not really a whole lot to look forward to IMHO.

Well they said updates for the existing range AND new datasheets, so I assume we will get something more

Certainly not impossible that we get access to other SM stuff. Its just nearly everything FW makes for Marines is either Relic/Heresy era or heavy support, not suited to Grey Knights doctrine. It would kinda fly in the face of fluff, which is not FW's style. A few extra LR/Thunderhawk variants perhaps?

On the other hand, maybe they got a lot of negative feedback when GK were exempted from all the cool Relic stuff, or maybe they just need to sell more stuff

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I hope they give us 'Mortis' Dreads - All hail the psybolt rifleman dreadnought!

If only psybolts worked on autocannon

**Spartacus**

GuardStrider wrote:
I mean forgive my ignorance as I am not that familiar with the immediate post-Heresy period but I assume that the loss of technology was slow and gradual not immediate, 2nd founding chapters still having access to some heresy era technology is not that far-fetched and GK technically were founded in the final stages of the heresy (when Malcador sealed Titan, before Horus invaded Terra) therefore they still could perfectly have access to Heresy era tech.

Otherwise then every one of those dreads would be marines from the Heresy era and Bjorns thing of being the oldest living dread who witnessed the Primarchs, Emperor, etc.... wouldn't make as much sense.

Yeah don't get me wrong, I totally agree, it should be possible given the timing of it all. Its just not the angle GK fluff has taken for some reason, and I believe it is why FW specifically excluded GK from all the Legion era stuff. We will soon find out if that has changed.

If only psybolts worked on autocannon

That's what I'm hoping for, a GK specific entry which emulates something similar to that! Don't know if FW care enough to put so much thought into that however.

**Smotejob**

So I am really starting to like voldus, but I find him most effective in small games or in small gk detachments with your main force as guardsmen... And in this instance I use him as a source or mortal wounds.

The idea is that I have such a small detacent of grey knights where something else else cast goi and sanctuary and he casts purge soul, vortex and smite. Not uncommon for him to drop 5-7 mortal wounds a turn.

I like to embed him in my guard list with a couple go units rolling around. Lots of command points to abuse on my guys

**GuardStrider**

Anyone here using multiple GMDK after the faq? I have been running only one since I only own one, I am considering getting other but I question their usefulness after the FAQ where you can only Alpha Strike one.

**Spartacus**

GuardStrider wrote:
Anyone here using multiple GMDK after the faq? I have been running only one since I only own one, I am considering getting other but I question their usefulness after the FAQ where you can only Alpha Strike one.

I've swapped out one of them for Draigo in many of my lists. For the reason you listed and also becuase of the other FaQ that came out recently stating that stratagems cannot target things which are not on the board. My usual plan was to have both GMDK's in your face and rocking a 3++ from Turn 1. But even without the beta rules that is now impossible if both are coming from DS.

Actually, speaking more generally, my plan now is just to bring my Eldar

This codex cannot take any more hits and still compete in my gaming group

**Elric Greywolf**

Spartacus wrote:

Actually, speaking more generally, my plan now is just to bring my Eldar This codex cannot take any more hits and still compete in my gaming group

I think that's a general attitude at this point: "My plan now is just to bring _____." I'd just found a list I was happy with, and was doing very well with (2 GMDKs, 2 Assassins, 3 GKSS squads, an Inquisitor), and now ALL of it has been made obsolete.

One GMDK in the backfield, and one Raven flying upfield T1 is not going to survive the long-range anti-tank that EVERY other army easily fields. My threat-overload plan no longer exists :(

My blank is Tzeentch. TSons Princes and Pinks. Hadn't played HeroHammer up to this point!

**BillyN831**

How many Psilencers come in a Grey Knights Strike Squad box? Thanks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I made a list with Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight Armors and Strike Squads and was told it lacked anti-tank. Is a Stormraven Gunship a viable option or what else? Thanks.

**jeffersonian000**

BillyN831 wrote:
How many Psilencers come in a Grey Knights Strike Squad box? Thanks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I made a list with Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight Armors and Strike Squads and was told it lacked anti-tank. Is a Stormraven Gunship a viable option or what else? Thanks.

2 Psilencers, 2 Psycannons, 1 Incinerator.

SJ

**BillyN831**

Thanks!

**Smotejob**

Yup... I've switched to my guard. Can't do the gk anymore. GW killed them.

Here is the GW faq Dept....
40kfaq@gwplc.com

Please complain to them. Mass voice is what will get the change.

**macexor**

I'm bringing a GK patrol detachment to my SM army next game. It'll consist of 1 GMNDK and 1x5 Strike Squad.
I'm trying to buff GMNDK as much as possible. He himself will cast Sanctuary on himself and the Strike Squad can GoI him anywhere. Of course the 2++ invul stratagem is also available to him.
Vanilla SM psychic powers need an "Adeptus Astarters" unit to be able to target them, so Dreadknight seems a valid target. My plan is to cast a +1S/+1T/+1A buff on him and either a 4+ save against psychic mortal wounds or a charge reroll.

Any other ideas to buff him even more?

**GuardStrider**

Well, I only have GK and small friends detachment (either Sob or IG, not enough to field a full army) so I can't really switch factions while they don't fix it. Each game is a uphill battle, but I usually put a decent fight as long as I am not fighting Tau. Which is enough fun for me and sometimes I even win some games like my last one which was against Nids,thought it was won due to have more points when the clock ran out.
Against the Tau lists in my meta, well, I might as well bring 100 points of Guardmen since It will make the same dent on my opponent, I had whole squads being vaporized by overwatch.

Anyway currently waiting for the Knight codex to decide if I should get a Knight or a Stormraven for my list. Hopefully they will reduce the Knights costs/improve them enough to make it a nice distraction carnifex/ anti-tank platform

**Nairul**

macexor wrote:
I'm bringing a GK patrol detachment to my SM army next game. It'll consist of 1 GMNDK and 1x5 Strike Squad.
I'm trying to buff GMNDK as much as possible. He himself will cast Sanctuary on himself and the Strike Squad can GoI him anywhere. Of course the 2++ invul stratagem is also available to him.
Vanilla SM psychic powers need an "Adeptus Astarters" unit to be able to target them, so Dreadknight seems a valid target. My plan is to cast a +1S/+1T/+1A buff on him and either a 4+ save against psychic mortal wounds or a charge reroll.

Any other ideas to buff him even more?

What 2++ invul strategem are you referring to?

**Audustum**

Nairul wrote:
macexor wrote:
I'm bringing a GK patrol detachment to my SM army next game. It'll consist of 1 GMNDK and 1x5 Strike Squad.
I'm trying to buff GMNDK as much as possible. He himself will cast Sanctuary on himself and the Strike Squad can GoI him anywhere. Of course the 2++ invul stratagem is also available to him.
Vanilla SM psychic powers need an "Adeptus Astarters" unit to be able to target them, so Dreadknight seems a valid target. My plan is to cast a +1S/+1T/+1A buff on him and either a 4+ save against psychic mortal wounds or a charge reroll.

Any other ideas to buff him even more?

What 2++ invul strategem are you referring to?

Heed the Prognosticators. It doesn't cap at 3++ like other invulnerable buffing powers. So you put Sanctuary on him then Heed and ta-da, he's 2++.

**Nairul**

Audustum wrote:
Nairul wrote:
macexor wrote:
I'm bringing a GK patrol detachment to my SM army next game. It'll consist of 1 GMNDK and 1x5 Strike Squad.
I'm trying to buff GMNDK as much as possible. He himself will cast Sanctuary on himself and the Strike Squad can GoI him anywhere. Of course the 2++ invul stratagem is also available to him.
Vanilla SM psychic powers need an "Adeptus Astarters" unit to be able to target them, so Dreadknight seems a valid target. My plan is to cast a +1S/+1T/+1A buff on him and either a 4+ save against psychic mortal wounds or a charge reroll.

Any other ideas to buff him even more?

What 2++ invul strategem are you referring to?

Heed the Prognosticators. It doesn't cap at 3++ like other invulnerable buffing powers. So you put Sanctuary on him then Heed and ta-da, he's 2++.

Wouldn't the order be Heed, then Sanctuary? And once he has Heed on him, Sanctuary would be redundant... as it cannot improve his Invuln beyond the 3++ that Heed already provides.

**Audustum**

Nairul wrote:
Audustum wrote:
Nairul wrote:
macexor wrote:
I'm bringing a GK patrol detachment to my SM army next game. It'll consist of 1 GMNDK and 1x5 Strike Squad.
I'm trying to buff GMNDK as much as possible. He himself will cast Sanctuary on himself and the Strike Squad can GoI him anywhere. Of course the 2++ invul stratagem is also available to him.
Vanilla SM psychic powers need an "Adeptus Astarters" unit to be able to target them, so Dreadknight seems a valid target. My plan is to cast a +1S/+1T/+1A buff on him and either a 4+ save against psychic mortal wounds or a charge reroll.

Any other ideas to buff him even more?

What 2++ invul strategem are you referring to?

Heed the Prognosticators. It doesn't cap at 3++ like other invulnerable buffing powers. So you put Sanctuary on him then Heed and ta-da, he's 2++.

Wouldn't the order be Heed, then Sanctuary? And once he has Heed on him, Sanctuary would be redundant... as it cannot improve his Invuln beyond the 3++ that Heed already provides.

Heed technically doesn't improve the invulnerable but adds +1 to the roll. So Sanctuary's restriction is never violated.

**Nairul**

Audustum wrote:

Heed technically doesn't improve the invulnerable but adds +1 to the roll. So Sanctuary's restriction is never violated.

I see, so you're saying one affects the datasheet and the other is a modifier. Thanks for explaining. Elsewhere there seems to be extensive debate about this issue...

Seems like a combo I would only use in tournaments/competitive games. Not sure I would want to do this to my opponent in a friendly match.

**Spartacus**

Nairul wrote:
Audustum wrote:

Heed technically doesn't improve the invulnerable but adds +1 to the roll. So Sanctuary's restriction is never violated.

I see, so you're saying one affects the datasheet and the other is a modifier. Thanks for explaining. Elsewhere there seems to be extensive debate about this issue...

Seems like a combo I would only use in tournaments/competitive games. Not sure I would want to do this to my opponent in a friendly match.

The rules are clear cut, but I imagine many people received the FaQ under the impression it was designed to stop 2++ saves, and disregarded the language when first reading it. Unfortunately some people like to hang on to their own perceived idea of the rules and so you get internet debate.

Just be prepared to show/explain the language clearly to someone in person if you're going to take advantage of it.

**Lanlaorn**

You're spending 2 command points with inconvenient timing (start of your turn) for a strategem that the Imperial Guard get for 1 CP that can be used reactively (used in opponent's shooting phase).

You should never feel like you're using cutthroat tactics with Heed the Prognosticators, it's so much worse than many other defensive strategems.