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Work, i'm aware it's legal with the new transport rules.

Use the breacher team to clear an objective or building, load the strikers into it to support over longer ranges. Maybe. Or something like that at any rate.

Sounds pretty effective. Just remember your transport has to weather fire for a turn. It's going to be weird getting out of transports FIRST.

Splitting Krootox and Hounds into their own units is fine, but making them Elite and FA is going to be rough.

Some insight to MP on crisis. I made some comparison charts on burst cannons with and without advanced targetting and compared it to missile pods with and without advanced targeting.
My insight here is that 2 BC + AT is superior over 3 MP if you shoot MEQ's.

The following charts show the added up probaility to do at least x unsaved wounds with the given config of one crisis:



The chart is a little cluttered. You can see that actually 2 BC + AT are superior to 3 BC and 3 MP are superior to 2 MP with AT.



This chart removes inferior configurations and that BC are far better than MP's here.

What you can see here is as long as you only shoot single wound models BC's are very good. Against 2 wound MEQ's the MP's have a chance to outright kill a model (Which is not in the chart as damage with the new one by one roll system is tough to calculate, which means every unsaved wound results still in D3 dmg here). Taking into consideration that MP's are not 28 points for a full kit but 72 points taking a Crisis far beyond 100 points I don't think its a good configuration.

XeZZ wrote:
Some insight to MP on crisis. I made some comparison charts on burst cannons with and without advanced targetting and compared it to missile pods with and without advanced targeting.
My insight here is that 2 BC + AT is superior over 3 MP if you shoot MEQ's.

The following charts show the added up probaility to do at least x unsaved wounds with the given config of one crisis:



The chart is a little cluttered. You can see that actually 2 BC + AT are superior to 3 BC and 3 MP are superior to 2 MP with AT.



This chart removes inferior configurations and that BC are far better than MP's here.

What you can see here is as long as you only shoot single wound models BC's are very good. Against 2 wound MEQ's the MP's have a chance to outright kill a model (Which is not in the chart as damage with the new one by one roll system is tough to calculate, which means every unsaved wound results still in D3 dmg here). Taking into consideration that MP's are not 28 points for a full kit but 72 points taking a Crisis far beyond 100 points I don't think its a good configuration.

Great information. How does the breakdown go with plasma rifles? Would two of them and an advanced targeting system be better than three of them? I presume that three fusion blasters would be better than two since the AP is already so good.

Played a game with tau and 8th today - just a small 50 point game to get a feeling of units and the rules.

A few observations;

* With the new markerlight rules, you need more shots than ever - as getting quality hits is VERY difficult.
* Sniper drones may be an uphill battle without a drone controller to supplement the marksman
* Broadsides with RR are very useful - if you want any chance to take out vehicles or MC's .- massed firewarrior shooting does not cover it...
* Darkstrider is essential - for running from assault and shooting.
* Darkstrider's ability to lower toughness is also essential when facing T6 MC's other wise even your pulse rifles are wounding on 5vs.
* The ghostkeels stealth is not as useful against BS4 opponents (most armies) any kind of volume of fire.
* Smart players will shot the GK's drones first, then the GK.
* Markerlights or multi-trackers are essential for the GK if you are overcharging (and other overcharged weapons).
* The Pathfinder gravity wave projector drone is actually useful - I thought it would be too situational, but it helped a lot - and since it is NOT tied to a unit, you can move it quite a bit.
* As cover is not as prevalent or determental as last edition the recon drone, or the 4 markerlight hit did not feel as valuable.
* Leadership is one of tau's weakness - battleshock can be more deadly than enemy fire. Especially on kroot or vespid.
* vespid are almost as good as they seem - the absolutely need markersupport (5 if you can do it) but if they get it, they help a lot.

So, the new "but they are persistent, so they are better " markerlights - are not better. In fact they almost HAVE to be persistent now.
Why?
Before, if you wanted to wipe out an enemy infantry squad, you could hit them will a few markers, then have a squad of firewarriors buffed by a fireblade, and rip up most units at BS 5 with a ton of shots. It was fine that the ML were consumed - be cause you killed your target.

Just re-rolling 1's (for 1 marker) or getting a single BS boost (for FIVE) is a LOT more misses. You need the markers to be persistent, so you can use up a second squad - especially with almost everything that is not a troop choice having more wounds.

The game has a lot of new tactical nuances to it - from set up (read the mission set up very carefully - you will find some hidden gems in there) to movement in assault.

Tau are not total doom and gloom- but we certainly got whacked hard with the nerf bat - a little too hard in my opinion, but only time will tell.

Oh, and we played that "jet pack" did NOT give JSJ (since we don't know for sure yet) - and this was crippling to use - I heavily utilize JSJ in my tau lists, and its loss was keenly felt tactically.

Anyway, hope some of this was useful for some folks....

After looking pretty heavily at the leaked index, I have come to a conclusion. My Riptide and Ghostkeel will likely be sitting out of anything but 2.5k+ games. They are simply too expensive, for far too little return. The Ghostkeel is overpriced. And for no reason, it wasn't that fantastic of a unit, and they almost doubled the price on the optimal configuration, that was nothing special. The Riptide, is up in the air. It was terribly undercosted for what it was capable of, I don't dispute that. It's actually probably pretty close to correct, however, the change to large blasts really kills the Ion Accelerator (and -any- weapon that used large blasts, but that's a tangent for another thread). So I can no longer justify taking them.

And that's fine. I've played Tau since their very first codex at the beginning of 4th edition. Back when there were no Riptides, or Ghostkeels. No Stormsurges or Supremacy suits. I fell in love with the army then, due to the look of the suits and vehicles. I thought the XV8's looked great, and the fluff idea behind them was cool. The Hammerheads and Broadsides with their Railguns, a technology I am in love with, were awesome. Stealthsuits, optical camo and silenced weapons that attack 'outside the lines' of Tau doctrine sounded fun. Pathfinders, a unit with laser targeting aids for the rest of the force was such a cool concept. Firewarriors, a generic troop option with powerful weapons that had (at the time) nice looking, dynamic poses. The fluff was cool, in that each unit had a task to fulfill, and taken on their own were generally underwhelming, but when applied en masse, they became a powerful, effective fighting force. Much like the modern military, something that, as a Marine, I found intriguing in ways other armies didn't appeal to me. So, in a way, I'm going to 'return to my roots' with 8th ed. I will be using more Crisis and Broadsides now, my Pathfinders will return to the table, Breachers/Strikers in D-Fish supporting the advance of my mobile suits, while Broadsides engage heavy targets.

Will it rule tables like we are currently accustomed to? No, but it didn't in 4th/5th ed either. I'd like to see markerlights more effective, but maybe we will see a little added utility in an actual codex. I am actually excited to see a return to the style of Tau that first enamored me with the army. Whether it affects my games or not, I am going to miss JSJ, however. It was iconic. It was TAU. I think that is the one thing I am truly sorry to see go.

The Ghostkeel's weaponry was pretty brutal, especially in an OSC.

D6 for large blasts just made the different, it didn't kill them.

JSJ was probably hard to price in the initial codex. Maybe it will come back.

Martel732 wrote:
The Ghostkeel's weaponry was pretty brutal, especially in an OSC.

D6 for large blasts just made the different, it didn't kill them.

JSJ was probably hard to price in the initial codex. Maybe it will come back.

The OSC was the only reason Ghostkeels ever saw the table. And yes, it was broken, no doubt. But without OSC, the Ghostkeel is mediocre at best. It's not horrible, I'm definitely not crying foul that they nerfed Tau to uselessness, but on the whole, Crisis suits can do what it does, but better, in most cases.

I'm wondering about the viability of taking 2 10-man squads of Fire Warrior Strike Teams (or 9-man teams with DS8 turrets) and putting them in a Tidewall Shieldline with Defence Platform. Maybe drop one guy from one of the units in order to stick a Cadre Fireblade in there. The opponent has to destroy the fortifications to be able to hit the guys, and the shieldline turns saves of 6+ into an automatic mortal wound for the firing unit. OUCH. And the shieldline and platform together cost just a little more than a Devilfish, which is faster and tougher but doesn't let your guys shoot out of it and could only transport 1 10-model unit. I'm thinking the fortification could be good for Strike teams, while Breachers would be better served in a 'fish since they need to get close to the enemy to maximize their firepower.

Stealth Suit math vs MEQ

Core 30 x3
MT 32 x3 - Doesn't stack with Markerlight
ATS 38 x3

Core - 12 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 1.33
MT - 12 * 21/36 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 1.55
ATS - 12 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 2.00

Points Relation, Lower is better
Core - 67.66
MT - 61.93
ATS - 57.00

Compared to Crisis Suits. Since we know that ATS is best, we are just going to compare ATS Crisis vs ATS Stealth.
Crisis 42 + Burst 10x2 + ATS 8 = 70 pts for 2 Bursts, or 35 points each vs Stealth Suits 38 points each.
Single Suit
ATS - 8 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 1.33
Point Relation - 52.63

3 Crisis Suits will equal 6 Stealth Suits in number of Shots.
228 points vs 210 points, for 18 points difference...
You get more wounds, but with less toughness. As well Stealth Suit additional Stealth defenses. Oh and the option of having 2 different groups running around. Overall Burst Crisis Suits are probably not worth it. What about Vespids?

Core 15 x4
Core 8 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 1.77

Point Relation
Core - 33.75

Also to reach 210 points of Vespids, we end up with 14 Vespids.
Which is 2 more wounds than Stealth Suits, and 5 more wounds than Crisis Suits. Same T as Stealth Suits, but lower Toughness than Crisis Suits. Finally lower saves than either.

Finally equal points offensive summary between the 3
15 Vespids = 30 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 6.66 Dead MEQ (225 points)
6 ATS Stealth = 24 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 4.00 Dead MEQ (228 points)
3 ATS/B Crisis = 24 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 4.00 Dead MEQ (210 points)


Edit - Let's check Gun Drones too!
28 Drones * 8 points each = 224 points
28 Drones = 56 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 4.18
With Drone Controller = 56 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 6.22 (Let's say this is 234 points, the cost of 2 Drone Controllers)

... and Fire Warriors... which is actually the exact same cost as Gun Drones
and have BS equal to Gun Drones with Drone Controller... So it's really just copy paste... 56 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 6.22

Point Relative - Lower is Better!
Gun Drones = 53.58
Gun Drones with Drone Controller = 37.62
Fire Warriors = 36.01


New Summary... Just use like the extra stuff in your army to kill MEQ. Don't use Battlesuits to kill MEQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plasma Rifle Suit vs MEQ
Triplasma - 75 = 42 + 11 * 3
Plasma ATS - 72 = 42 + 11 * 2 + 8

Full Range
Trip - 3 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 0.83
PATS - 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 6/6 = 0.66

Half Range
Trip - 6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 1.66
PATS - 4 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 6/6 = 1.33

Point Relation Cost (Lower is better)
Full
Trip - 90.36
PATS - 109.09
Half
Trip - 45.18
PATS - 54.13

===========================
Cyclic Ion Blaster
TriCy - 96 = 42 + 18 * 3
TriATS - 86 = 42 + 18 * 2 + 8

Standard
TriCy - 9 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 1.50
TATS - 6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 1.33

Overclock
TriCy - 6 * 1/2 * 5/6 * 1/2 = 1.25 || 1 - (5/6)^6 = ~67% chance of suffering a wound
TATS - 4 * 1/2 * 5/6 * 2/3 = 1.11 || 1 - (5/6)^4 = ~52% chance of suffering a wound

Point Relation Cost - Lower is better
Standard
TriCy - 64
TATS - 64.66
Overclock
TriCy - 76.8
TATS - 77.4

===================================
Airburst or Flamers
Triple - 69[72] = 42 + 3 * [9 +1 for Airburst]
ATS - 68[70] = 42 + 2 * [9 +1 for Airburst] + 8

Triple Airburst - 3 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 0.87
Triple Flamers - 3 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 1.75

ATS Airburst - 2 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 0.87
ATS Flamers - 2 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1.75
... This is actually a little surprising

Point Relation
Airburst - 80
Flamers - 38


IMPORTANT EDIT!! I did the math for Gun Drones assuming they had 1 Pulse Carbine, they apparently have 2!!! Pulse Carbines!!!!!! FOR 8 POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
28 Drones * 8 points each = 224 points
28 Drones = 112 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 8.29
With Drone Controller = 112 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 12.44

Point Relation
Normal = 27.02
DC = 18.81

This is so massive that there is basically no reason why you should use anything except for Gun Drones for killing MEQ.
Crisis Suits will literally exist as Anti Tank Firing Base and to carry Drone Controllers.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:


Great information. How does the breakdown go with plasma rifles? Would two of them and an advanced targeting system be better than three of them? I presume that three fusion blasters would be better than two since the AP is already so good.

Here you go;




So yes 3 Plasma >> 2 Plasma and in RF Range they are actually better in killing everything then BC's

For now I think I will kit my crissis with 3 Plasma.

(on a sidenote: I postet the tool to do the charts here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727608.page)

Basically same numbers as before but using Xezz calculator. vs MEQ

Fire Warriors assume 2 shots, so Carbine or half RF.

Conclusions~
1 - Burst Cannons are terrible
2 - Crisis Suits should not be made to be Anti Infantry, we get plenty of it from the rest of the army
3 - Seriously, don't make Burst Cannon Crisis Suits.
4 - Plasma is alright... but since it's still an anti infantry gun. It's still not very good.
5 - Crisis Suits are overcosted, by about 10 points per model

Edit - Uploaded new chart using the new Calculator

Gun drones seems great. To bad they cant fire an extra shot from the Cadres

just did an update to the tool so low probabilities wont extent the chart to unreadable^^

 Vryce wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The Ghostkeel's weaponry was pretty brutal, especially in an OSC.

D6 for large blasts just made the different, it didn't kill them.

JSJ was probably hard to price in the initial codex. Maybe it will come back.

The OSC was the only reason Ghostkeels ever saw the table. And yes, it was broken, no doubt. But without OSC, the Ghostkeel is mediocre at best. It's not horrible, I'm definitely not crying foul that they nerfed Tau to uselessness, but on the whole, Crisis suits can do what it does, but better, in most cases.

It was still an mc in an edition where mcs were godly sporting s 6/7 spam in an edition where s 6/7 spam was godly. Ghostkeels were godly, just not as godly as riptides or stormsurges. Mediocre for tau was autotake for have-not lists.

Actually, I'd say stealth suits are the best drone controller carrier, now that crisis can't be taken as single suits anymore - cheap, with some additional durability from stealth field (they can use it in close combat, too!) and you can even take a markerlight on them to boost the drones' shooting.

The main advantage of using crisis would be that they can take up to 6 drones with them in a manta hold.

XeZZ wrote:
Gun drones seems great. To bad they cant fire an extra shot from the Cadres

just did an update to the tool so low probabilities wont extent the chart to unreadable^^

Why not? The Cadre's volley fire rule is only keyed to <Sept> units, not infantry units like the Ethereal. And the ability does affect carbines.

Well you are right. Wow I totally missed that. I thoguht Drones do not have the <Sept> Keyword!

That makes room for cool builds with some Stealth suits as controllers and gakloads of drone swarms and Fireblades

3 stealth suits, 1 drone controller, 2 ATS and 2 gun drones
12 gun drones (Fast attack)
1 Cadre fireblade (HQ)

costs 228, and should be able to put 68 BS 4+ hits within 18-9" with possibly a ML hit from the fireblade, 96 within 0"-9", and in melee the stealth suits should be able to handle most enemies quite decently, as stealth field works in close combat and you can redirect wounds to the drones. On top of that, the fireblade can throw a photon grenade for an additional -1 to be hit, and even space marines will be hitting the stealth suits on 5+

Shadeseraph wrote:
3 stealth suits, 1 drone controller, 2 ATS and 2 gun drones
12 gun drones (Fast attack)
1 Cadre fireblade (HQ)

costs 228, and should be able to put 68 BS 4+ hits within 18-9" with possibly a ML hit from the fireblade, 96 within 0"-9", and in melee the stealth suits should be able to handle most enemies quite decently, as stealth field works in close combat and you can redirect wounds to the drones. On top of that, the fireblade can throw a photon grenade for an additional -1 to be hit, and even space marines will be hitting the stealth suits on 5+

You need to keep in mind, though, that Gun Drones can only shoot at the closest enemy. I know they look amazing on first glance, but I'd not putt all my eggs in that basket when cleverly positioned chaff can just eat up all those shots.

Shadeseraph wrote:
Actually, I'd say stealth suits are the best drone controller carrier, now that crisis can't be taken as single suits anymore - cheap, with some additional durability from stealth field (they can use it in close combat, too!) and you can even take a markerlight on them to boost the drones' shooting.

The main advantage of using crisis would be that they can take up to 6 drones with them in a manta hold.

XeZZ wrote:
Gun drones seems great. To bad they cant fire an extra shot from the Cadres

just did an update to the tool so low probabilities wont extent the chart to unreadable^^

Why not? The Cadre's volley fire rule is only keyed to <Sept> units, not infantry units like the Ethereal. And the ability does affect carbines.

I think this might actually be broken...

Drones vs Baneblade...
Baneblade is T8 26wounds, 3+ Save

We are going to assume the Drones have 5 Markerlights on the Baneblade. As well as they are all being buffed by a Drone Controller and Kauyon
This means that they will be, BS3, reroll misses. So 1/3 * 2/3 + 2/3 = 2/9 + 6/9 = 8/9 Accuracy.
They will also be buffed by a Fireblade which means that each of their 2 guns, gains an additional shot.
So Each Drone will be able to fire 6 shots.

Accuracy - 8/9
Wound - 5+ or 1/3
Armor - 3+ or 1/3

8/9 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 8/81
26 / (8/81) = 233 shots required

264 shots divided by 6 shots per Gun Drone equals 44 Gun Drones
44 Gun Drones cost 8 points each, or 352 points.

A Baneblade without any equipment or guns factored in costs 430 points, I expect it's guns to cost around 500 points.

This absolute insanity. Gun Drones aren't intended to be viable Anti Super Heavy Tank guns.
Admittedly, it does a once per battle effect. It requires 5 markerlights, which requires [5 / (21/36)] about a dozen Pathfinders. It also requires a Fireblade.
Finally, and this is the least plausible. It requires the 40 Drones being within 9" without having moved this turn.

Without the last rule, we wouldn't need Kauyon anymore. It would also allow us to move and shoot, but raise the amount of required Drones to...
28/36 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 28/324
26 / (28/324) = 301 shots
(301 / 6) = 51 Gun Drones, or 408 points worth.

I hate to say it, you might add in "needs an eclipse, and ice cream that burns fat".

Why would a baneblade get that close? Your drones not move? You are CONSTANTLY on the move in 8th, as assault is VERY fast. Also, don't forget, a single servo skull - (or spore mine, or what ever) and a drone squad HAS to target the closest target.

While a fun exercise in math, and in looking at potentials - once these exercises go too far in "just needs..." they loose a lot of value in influencing game play.

Are we certain that drone controllers don't stack? If they DID stack, that'd make Stealth Suits the drone escorts of choice since you could easily plop multiple DCs in the same region and go to town with Gun Drones hitting on 2+.

BertBert wrote:

Shadeseraph wrote:
3 stealth suits, 1 drone controller, 2 ATS and 2 gun drones
12 gun drones (Fast attack)
1 Cadre fireblade (HQ)

costs 228, and should be able to put 68 BS 4+ hits within 18-9" with possibly a ML hit from the fireblade, 96 within 0"-9", and in melee the stealth suits should be able to handle most enemies quite decently, as stealth field works in close combat and you can redirect wounds to the drones. On top of that, the fireblade can throw a photon grenade for an additional -1 to be hit, and even space marines will be hitting the stealth suits on 5+

You need to keep in mind, though, that Gun Drones can only shoot at the closest enemy. I know they look amazing on first glance, but I'd not putt all my eggs in that basket when cleverly positioned chaff can just eat up all those shots.

TBH, the best source of drones isn't the tactical drone unit, but individual piranhas/devilfishes/strike teams/hammerheads whatever. The pair of drones each one of these can take counts as a single unit, so you can use them little by little to avoid overspending shots.

It also makes drones much less vulnerable to battleshock, too, as all the damage is only accounted for on a unit by unit basis.

Also, you can send a small unit of two to tie that baneblade up for a turn

davethepak wrote:
I hate to say it, you might add in "needs an eclipse, and ice cream that burns fat".

Why would a baneblade get that close? Your drones not move? You are CONSTANTLY on the move in 8th, as assault is VERY fast. Also, don't forget, a single servo skull - (or spore mine, or what ever) and a drone squad HAS to target the closest target.

While a fun exercise in math, and in looking at potentials - once these exercises go too far in "just needs..." they loose a lot of value in influencing game play.

The 2nd math allows the Drones to move and shoot. It's still heavily in their favor. Also, it's not 1 super unit of drones. It's would be like a dozen micro units.

The point wasn't that "look, they can kill a Baneblade". It was... THEY WILL KILL EVERYTHING!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:
Are we certain that drone controllers don't stack? If they DID stack, that'd make Stealth Suits the drone escorts of choice since you could easily plop multiple DCs in the same region and go to town with Gun Drones hitting on 2+.

Friendly Drones within 6" of a Drone Controller add 1 to hit rolls.

Definitely doesn't stack, but it does stack with 5 Markerlights. Meaning your ultimate target is going to get wrecked.

Talamare wrote:
Drones vs Baneblade...
Baneblade is T8 26wounds, 3+ Save

We are going to assume the Drones have 5 Markerlights on the Baneblade. As well as they are all being buffed by a Drone Controller and Kauyon
This means that they will be, BS3, reroll misses. So 1/3 * 2/3 + 2/3 = 2/9 + 6/9 = 8/9 Accuracy.
They will also be buffed by a Fireblade which means that each of their 2 guns, gains an additional shot.
So Each Drone will be able to fire 6 shots.

Accuracy - 8/9
Wound - 5+ or 1/3
Armor - 3+ or 1/3

8/9 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 8/81
26 / (8/81) = 233 shots required

264 shots divided by 6 shots per Gun Drone equals 44 Gun Drones
44 Gun Drones cost 8 points each, or 352 points.

A Baneblade without any equipment or guns factored in costs 430 points, I expect it's guns to cost around 500 points.

This absolute insanity. Gun Drones aren't intended to be viable Anti Super Heavy Tank guns.
Admittedly, it does a once per battle effect. It requires 5 markerlights, which requires [5 / (21/36)] about a dozen Pathfinders. It also requires a Fireblade.
Finally, and this is the least plausible. It requires the 40 Drones being within 9" without having moved this turn.

Without the last rule, we wouldn't need Kauyon anymore. It would also allow us to move and shoot, but raise the amount of required Drones to...
28/36 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 28/324
26 / (28/324) = 301 shots
(301 / 6) = 51 Gun Drones, or 408 points worth.

Accuracy is 7/9 hits.

You have a 3+ to hit initially (happens 2/3 of the time), you miss with no recourse 1/6 of the time, and you get to reroll your 2/3 chance to hit 1/6 of the time:
2/3 +0 + (1/6 *2/3)= 2/3 +1/9 = 6/9 + 1/9 = 7/9.

Talamare wrote:
Edit - Let's check Gun Drones too!
28 Drones * 8 points each = 224 points
28 Drones = 56 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 4.18
With Drone Controller = 56 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 6.22 (Let's say this is 234 points, the cost of 2 Drone Controllers)

... and Fire Warriors... which is actually the exact same cost as Gun Drones
and have BS equal to Gun Drones with Drone Controller... So it's really just copy paste... 56 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 6.22

Point Relative - Lower is Better!
Gun Drones = 53.58
Gun Drones with Drone Controller = 37.62
Fire Warriors = 36.01

Gun drones get 2 Pulse Carbines each, for 4 shots each. They effectively have Burst Cannons. Every Gun Drone has a Burst cannon.

So the 28 gun would have 112 shots, and would have 168 if within range of the Cadre Fireblade.

Add a Drone controller, and every single Gun Drone within range has a Burst Cannon as accurate as a baseline stealth suit.

The question is not what has the most efficient firepower (Gun Drones in the right circumstances probably rival anti-tank weaponry in point efficiency versus tanks, and they are pretty much unrivaled in anti-infantry), but putting that firepower in a useful place.

That means using your other units to "clear a path" for your Drone shooting - prune whatever they put in the way that is inefficient for massed pulse fire to get to, get something worth shooting closest to the drones, then let fly.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

Accuracy is 7/9 hits.

You have a 3+ to hit initially (happens 2/3 of the time), you miss with no recourse 1/6 of the time, and you get to reroll your 2/3 chance to hit 1/6 of the time:
2/3 +0 + (1/6 *2/3)= 2/3 +1/9 = 6/9 + 1/9 = 7/9.

8/9 is assuming Kauyon which allows you to reroll all your dice.

The 2nd math using 28/36 is with Markerlight 1, 28/36 = 7/9

Why did I use 28/36... because I copied pasted it from my math in page4 and didn't feel like simplifying.

Seems like Gun Drones will be the preferred choice all round with Markerlights being (arguably ? ) a lot less of an autoinclude now, and even if the Savior Protocols are neat, the mortal wound it gives doesn't make the shield drones as useful as they could be.

 doc1234 wrote:
Seems like Gun Drones will be the preferred choice all round with Markerlights being (arguably ? ) a lot less of an autoinclude now, and even if the Savior Protocols are neat, the mortal wound it gives doesn't make the shield drones as useful as they could be.

Saviour Protocols does not give mortal wounds, so shield drones are still pretty good ablative wounds against anything that is armor piercing.

Does any one feel Tau got the nerf bat a bit too hard?
I can't help but feel the a lot of army is largely irrelevant now with mostly small unit count and poor BS.

They have some nice stuff like drones saviour protocolsand some of the suit systems,but with the overly heavy nerf to markers mostly they just miss.

I don't want to moan too much but feel like we got a bit too shafted in places.

I don't mind some of it, I think the markers +1bs is too hard to get and therefore makes it irrelevant.

 Boniface wrote:
Does any one feel Tau got the nerf bat a bit too hard?
I can't help but feel the a lot of army is largely irrelevant now with mostly small unit count and poor BS.

They have some nice stuff like drones saviour protocolsand some of the suit systems,but with the overly heavy nerf to markers mostly they just miss.

I don't want to moan too much but feel like we got a bit too shafted in places.

I don't mind some of it, I think the markers +1bs is too hard to get and therefore makes it irrelevant.

Although I feel the same, I advocate we should playtest a lot until we find how Tau is doing now. Many different lists against many different enemies.