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 Vector Strike wrote:

 Boniface wrote:
Does any one feel Tau got the nerf bat a bit too hard?
I can't help but feel the a lot of army is largely irrelevant now with mostly small unit count and poor BS.

They have some nice stuff like drones saviour protocolsand some of the suit systems,but with the overly heavy nerf to markers mostly they just miss.

I don't want to moan too much but feel like we got a bit too shafted in places.

I don't mind some of it, I think the markers +1bs is too hard to get and therefore makes it irrelevant.

Although I feel the same, I advocate we should playtest a lot until we find how Tau is doing now. Many different lists against many different enemies.

I'm not trying to write them off too soon but I feel that outside some of the HQ options there are some issues.
An option I was considering was to have multiple shield lines with and ethereal and 2 Fireblades with 2 or 3 firewarriors and some vespid.

 Boniface wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Boniface wrote:
Does any one feel Tau got the nerf bat a bit too hard?
I can't help but feel the a lot of army is largely irrelevant now with mostly small unit count and poor BS.

They have some nice stuff like drones saviour protocolsand some of the suit systems,but with the overly heavy nerf to markers mostly they just miss.

I don't want to moan too much but feel like we got a bit too shafted in places.

I don't mind some of it, I think the markers +1bs is too hard to get and therefore makes it irrelevant.

Although I feel the same, I advocate we should playtest a lot until we find how Tau is doing now. Many different lists against many different enemies.

I'm not trying to write them off too soon but I feel that outside some of the HQ options there are some issues.
An option I was considering was to have multiple shield lines with and ethereal and 2 Fireblades with 2 or 3 firewarriors and some vespid.

Yes, they got hit too hard. But that is spilt milk, and there are already tons of posts about that (here and other places).

Moving forward, have to get over our losses, and try to figure out how to make good games from what we have;
A few things to leverage;

* We have some of the best "look out sir" with drones out there - automatic passing and our extra wounds are cheap.
* The pathfinder drones are independent now, so you can move then around and help enhance other units (just be careful not to get them killed).
* Gun drones are actually a decent source of shots per point, now having TWO carbines per drone.
* Vespid a a bit better - especially since we don't have to (yet) pay for the strain leader upgrade.
* Longstrike is good - if you want to run a hammerhead.
* Seekers, while losing ease of use, do mortal wounds, and are only 5 points now.
* Missile pods, while a lot more expensive, put out serious damage aginst vehicles and MC's - almost better than other means.
* Railsides having two shots is very nice, and with marker support can drop enemy units.
* The ATS system is awesome on burst riptides and some other units.
* All our HQ units are a LOT more durable, and combined with photon grenades can actually survive a round in CC sometimes enough to get out (have drones close by).
* FLY keyword - we got lots of it.
* More weapons on suits - commanders and others - yeah, they are expensive, and no you should not spam them, but gives options.


Yeah, that is not a glowing list - and the things we lost are bad, but its what we got; now to make lists to get the most of it.

Honestly what disappoints me most is that every functional list I make now relies on stationary gunlines hiding at the back edge of the table and making use of long range guns and rules that force models not to move in order to be successful.

In contrast, my list from last edition was made entirely of mobile units, the slowest moving being relentless Broadsides.

Also... Is there ever a reason to take Bodyguards anymore? Savior Protocols is straight up better, and for the same price as upgrading from regular Crisis Suits to Bodyguards, you can take the drones you need for it.

davethepak wrote:

 Boniface wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Boniface wrote:
Does any one feel Tau got the nerf bat a bit too hard?
I can't help but feel the a lot of army is largely irrelevant now with mostly small unit count and poor BS.

They have some nice stuff like drones saviour protocolsand some of the suit systems,but with the overly heavy nerf to markers mostly they just miss.

I don't want to moan too much but feel like we got a bit too shafted in places.

I don't mind some of it, I think the markers +1bs is too hard to get and therefore makes it irrelevant.

Although I feel the same, I advocate we should playtest a lot until we find how Tau is doing now. Many different lists against many different enemies.

I'm not trying to write them off too soon but I feel that outside some of the HQ options there are some issues.
An option I was considering was to have multiple shield lines with and ethereal and 2 Fireblades with 2 or 3 firewarriors and some vespid.

Yes, they got hit too hard. But that is spilt milk, and there are already tons of posts about that (here and other places).

Moving forward, have to get over our losses, and try to figure out how to make good games from what we have;
A few things to leverage;

* We have some of the best "look out sir" with drones out there - automatic passing and our extra wounds are cheap.
* The pathfinder drones are independent now, so you can move then around and help enhance other units (just be careful not to get them killed).
* Gun drones are actually a decent source of shots per point, now having TWO carbines per drone.
* Vespid a a bit better - especially since we don't have to (yet) pay for the strain leader upgrade.
* Longstrike is good - if you want to run a hammerhead.
* Seekers, while losing ease of use, do mortal wounds, and are only 5 points now.
* Missile pods, while a lot more expensive, put out serious damage aginst vehicles and MC's - almost better than other means.
* Railsides having two shots is very nice, and with marker support can drop enemy units.
* The ATS system is awesome on burst riptides and some other units.
* All our HQ units are a LOT more durable, and combined with photon grenades can actually survive a round in CC sometimes enough to get out (have drones close by).
* FLY keyword - we got lots of it.
* More weapons on suits - commanders and others - yeah, they are expensive, and no you should not spam them, but gives options.


Yeah, that is not a glowing list - and the things we lost are bad, but its what we got; now to make lists to get the most of it.

I agree with everything you say there. But there's one point that makes almost all of that moot. The points costs. I understand everything in the game went up in price for every army. But the amounts are ludicrous for Tau. You know the HRR you mentioned? A squad of three of those are over 700 points. It's so high it's funny.

riptides are BS5+ if they move.
Fly is only usefull if they actually survive an assault from an assault-oriented sqaud... which would be a freaking miracle.
We move slower than we used to. 8" is less than 6+2d6, not even counting the sheer utility and anti assault that provides.
This list goes on... it's all bittersweet...

Here is my indepth review after studying it quite a few times

Markerlights are actually more useful when using either a huge amount or small amount of Markerlights. As well as Markerlight support MSU gameplay. There are 2 approaches you should consider for using Markerlights. 1 Concentrated - In which you attempt to go for the 5 Light bonus. 2 Distributed - In which you try to get a single Light on everything you will shoot this phase. I think Distributed will be more useful most of the time, but don't be afraid to attempt a Concentrated against enemies with over 15-20 wounds.

Actually almost everything except for Darkstrider, and Shadowsun supports MSU gameplay.

Crisis Suit Flamer Squad might be okay. However Crisis Suits should be focused on anti tank. This means Cyclic Ion and Missile Pods. I would personally recommend Drone Controllers for Crisis Suits if you're bringing lots of Drones. Otherwise Advanced Targeting System is probably the most viable. Sadly Crisis Suits are about 10 points overcosted. I would also find a way to re-word Crisis Suits so that they may take 1 Support System without it costing a Weapon System.

Broadsides are still good, HYMP is about equal to MP Crisis. Rail Rifles are viable, and should be taken into consideration. I would personally recommend either Target Lock, Advanced Targeting System (for HYMP), or Early Warning Override. While I want to say Broadsides are overcosted, they are actually about appropriate for what they can do. They are probably our best core Anti Tank system.

Hammerhead is slightly below par, but on par after Longstrike. Longstrike himself is INSANITY and should always be taken if you're taking at least 1 Hammerhead.

Skyray is garbage. Maybe around 40-60 points overcosted. If you want to spam Skyray missiles you are probably better off just getting them in Hammerheads, Broadsides, and Piranhas.

HQ Spam, Our HQ options such as Fireblade, Darkstrider, Ethereals. Are all AMAZING and insanely cheap. You should take them all and not regret it.

The Commanders are alright, and support a more mobile gameplay. They will become a lot stronger when Crisis Suits receive a small point cost reduction.

Melee Tau! Our Melee has been insanely buffed. We are probably still the weakest Melee faction in the game, but don't be surprised if you do alright in melee now.

Gun Drones have INSANE potential. You should not feel shy about taking 2 Gun Drones on literally EVERYTHING that offers it.

Vespids are amazing! Have fun with them! Tho their downside is that they aren't really NEEDED. We have a ton of other options who do their job about equally.

Stealth Suits are also pretty good, since they were able to avoid the cost increase. Take Advanced Targeting Systems to maximize Burst Cannons. Drone Controller is also useful.

Devilfish is kinda of pointless. Don't take it. If you want a transport go buy a Tidewall. Tho, you don't really need any Transport for Tau. You're better off spending those 100 points on more Fire Warriors or Gun Drones.

Sniper Drones cost too much to be functional, you're probably better off just blowing up everything infront of the enemy character instead of trying to pick him off specifically. EDIT - Actually Sniper Drones might serve a purpose for filling up Heavy Slots (54 per slot, compared to ~150 for other options)

Because of Tau's MSU gameplay, and insanely cheap yet insanely useful HQs. You should be able to get Brigade Detachment every time. Even at 1000 points it should be possible and strong*. (Have not done the math for this)

 MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Is somebody else also planning on trying pulse carbines instead of pulse rifles on FW? I think I ll try it. Like the look of the gun much better and my models are magnetized anyways. Sure you have nearly half the range, but with assault armies being buffed I don't think that range will be such a big problem. They'll come to you :p. But the capability to run and shoot (BF-1) will help to keep my FW out of melee range as long as possible. What do you think? Pulse carbine finally worth it on FW?

Just bought another Start Collecting: am totally doing this. Pulse Blasters took a hard hit from the Nerf Bat, and just aren't worth it anymore.

Deadawake1347 wrote:
Honestly what disappoints me most is that every functional list I make now relies on stationary gunlines hiding at the back edge of the table and making use of long range guns and rules that force models not to move in order to be successful.

In contrast, my list from last edition was made entirely of mobile units, the slowest moving being relentless Broadsides.

Also... Is there ever a reason to take Bodyguards anymore? Savior Protocols is straight up better, and for the same price as upgrading from regular Crisis Suits to Bodyguards, you can take the drones you need for it.

Eh... Broadsides haven't been able to take relentless since the good ol' times of 5th edition (well, and the short while in 6th edition where you could play with the 5th edition codex in 6th edition).

In fact, now with Target locks you can play the equivalent to those old relentless broadsides.

 Talamare wrote:
Broadsides are still good, HYMP is about equal to MP Crisis (HYMP is slightly better). Rail Rifles are viable, and should be taken into consideration. I would personally recommend either Target Lock, Advanced Targeting System (for HYMP), or Early Warning Override. While I want to say Broadsides are overcosted, they are actually about appropriate for what they can do. They are probably our best core Anti Tank system.

Previously they were severely overgunned for their durability (more than many MBC) which is why they managed to get away with very low prices. 8th edition seems to have set some kind of minimum distribution to avoid overly efficient units like the broadsides.

Honestly, my only complaint is that I would have preferred less output and cost instead of keeping their previous output compensated with a hike on durability and cost.

Crisis Missile Pod, Tri vs ATS

Assumes T6 4+Save, T7 3+Save
Tripod(114)
T6 - 6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 2.66
T7 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.5
T8 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.0

ATS(98)
T6 - 4 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = 2.22
T7 - 4 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2 = 1.33
T8 - 4 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 0.88

vs HYMP (162)
T6 - 8 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 3.55
T7 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2 = 2.00
T8 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.33

By points relation (Lower is better)
Tripod vs ATS vs HYMP
T6 - 42.85 vs 44.14 vs 45.63
T7 - 76.00 vs 73.68 vs 81.00
T8 - 114.0 vs 111.36 vs 121.8

Thus ATS is better since it's cheaper and more efficient.


Cyclic Ion vs Tanks
TriCy - 96 = 42 + 18 * 3 || 1 - (5/6)^6 = ~67% chance of suffering a wound
TriATS - 86 = 42 + 18 * 2 + 8 || 1 - (5/6)^4 = ~52% chance of suffering a wound

Standard
TriCy
T6 - 9 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 2
T7 - 9 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1.12
T8 - 9 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 = 0.75

ATS
T6 - 6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 1.66
T7 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 1.00
T8 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 2/3 = 0.66

Overclock TriCy
T6 - 6 * 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 2.66
T7 - 6 * 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 = 2.00
T8 - 6 * 2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1.50

Overclock ATS
T6 - 4 * 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 2.22
T7 - 4 * 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 1.78
T8 - 4 * 2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 1.33

By point relation (Lower is better)
TriCy vs ATS || Overclock TriCy vs Overclock ATS
T6 - 48.00 vs 51.80 || 36.09 vs 38.73
T7 - 85.71 vs 86.00 || 48.00 vs 48.31
T8 - 128.0 vs 130.3 || 64.00 vs 64.66


Overall, I recommend Cyclic Ion for general purpose. 3 Shots means they are useful against infantry. S7 means they are amazing against light vehicles, and the option to Overclock makes them even useful against Heavy Vehicles. Triple Cyclic is slightly stronger than ATS Cyclic, but has considerably less Overheat chance. If you rather not be so close to the enemy, Missile Pods aren't much worse. Again I would recommend ATS, since it makes each suit cheaper without losing much efficiency. HYMP may have demonstrated lower number here, as well as are sluggish by comparison to Crisis Suits. However Broadsides have the advantage of actually using a Support system. So they can carry Early Warning Override or Drone Controller while still being very effective. I would personally recommend EWO. I don't think I would recommend any other gun for Crisis Suits.

You know what really would help?

an Excel spreadsheet with proper documentation.
Please consider, it would be a huge help!

Bringing tripion with a few marker drones just to get the 1 light bonus means you've got basically no reason to not overcharge too. No need to fear those 1 rolls.

Yeah, it's way too early to tell in my opinion.

 doc1234 wrote:
Bringing tripion with a few marker drones just to get the 1 light bonus means you've got basically no reason to not overcharge too. No need to fear those 1 rolls.

I'm not 100% certain that this math is correct, but if someone who would know how to do the math correctly would at least understand my logic.

You have a 1/6 chance of rolling a 1, and on a reroll you would again have a 1/6 chance.
So 1/6 * 1/6 = 1/36

So we can use that for the chance of rolling 1 twice.

4 Trions 1 - [(35/36)^4] = 10.65% chance
6 Trions 1 - [(35/36)^6] = 15.55% chance

Also important that unlike other Plasma weapons that state "the bearer is slain", Trion merely states the bearer suffers a mortal wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, it's way too early to tell in my opinion.

Too early to tell what? We have all the information.

Question:

Rules say, I always have to allocate wounds to wounded models first.

Scenario 1:

3 Crisis. 2 with burstcannons, one with Ion.
1 BC Crisis has a wound already and the Ion gets hot. is the BC slain, or does the Ion get the wound?

Scenario 2:
3 Ion Crisis.
I roll all hit rolls at the same time and get 3 mortal wounds.
Do I kill 1 Crisis or do have to roll the Hits seperately to see which suit gets a wound?

Aeri wrote:
Question:

Rules say, I always have to allocate wounds to wounded models first.

Scenario 1:

3 Crisis. 2 with burstcannons, one with Ion.
1 BC Crisis has a wound already and the Ion gets hot. is the BC slain, or does the Ion get the wound?

Scenario 2:
3 Ion Crisis.
I roll all hit rolls at the same time and get 3 mortal wounds.
Do I kill 1 Crisis or do have to roll the Hits seperately to see which suit gets a wound?

Scenario 1 - It specifically states bearer of weapon, so the Burst Cannon is safe.
Scenario 2 - I suppose so, yea. If you rolled all the 3 suits together for 9d3 shots and roll 3 mortal wounds, you would have no idea which shots came from which suit.
This is easily countered by rolling each Suit individually which is legal. You would need to decide the target of each suit/each Ion before making any rolls. If you kill your target early, it's wasted shots.


Scenario 1.5 - Suppose you have the Burst Cannon Suit but it happens to have an Ion - 2x Burst and 1x Ion which has taken 2 damage. Then the other 2 suits are Trions. If you roll 7d3 attacks, then the Burst Cannon suit will now die if you roll a 1. However if you told your opponent that the Burst Cannon Suit is not overclocking then it wouldn't.

I think I would handle it like I did in 7th then.
I roll off to see which model gets the wound, if all have the same amount of Ions.

(random allocation gets a lot harder if your crisis have different amounts of Ions, since you cannot simply roll a D3 )

I think what you calculated is the chance of having atleast one double 1. So the chance there is not 10% for 1 MW but 10% for 1+ MW.

The weapon profile also suggest that you only can suffer 1 MW for each weapon fired even if all 3 of 1 weapon are 1s. So again we must split the rolls by weapon....

No you don't.

Example: Full Crisis Ion Squad of 3.
I roll 3 mortal wounds.
I roll 3 D3 to allocate them.
I rolled: 1, 1, 3

--> First Crisis gets 1 Wound, Third Crisis gets a wound.

This only does not work, if you have different numbers of weapons on each suit.

XeZZ wrote:
I think what you calculated is the chance of having atleast one double 1. So the chance there is not 10% for 1 MW but 10% for 1+ MW.

The weapon profile also suggest that you only can suffer 1 MW for each weapon fired even if all 3 of 1 weapon are 1s. So again we must split the rolls by weapon....

Very true, if for example a single Ion Gun on a Crisis Suit with 3 Ion Guns rolls three 1s. Then you would only take a single mortal wound.
Despite having rolled 1 three times.

What I was aiming to figure out was roughly the chance of rolling 1 when you have reroll 1 chance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aeri wrote:
No you don't.

Example: Full Crisis Ion Squad of 3.
I roll 3 mortal wounds.
I roll 3 D3 to allocate them.
I rolled: 1, 1, 3

--> First Crisis gets 1 Wound, Third Crisis gets a wound.

This only does not work, if you have different numbers of weapons on each suit.

If a Crisis Suit team of 3 with 3 Ion guns each

Crisis Suit Alpha rolls
1, 1, 1
2, 2, 2
2, 2, 2

Then he would take 1 wound. Despite rolling 3x 1s

Crisis Suit Beta rolls
1, 2, 2
1, 2, 2
1, 2, 2

He would suffer 3 wounds, Despite rolling the exact same amount of 1s as Crisis Suit Alpha

Crisis Suit Delta rolls
1, 1, 1
1, 1, 1
1, 1, 1

He would suffer 3 wounds, just like Beta.

If we had rolled all of these dice together, we would have a total of 15 1s rolls, which would be enough to kill the whole squad if rolled seperately. However we know that Alpha would survive taking only 1 wound.
If Beta had rolled exactly the same as Alpha, we would still have 15 1s rolls. Yet both Alpha and Beta would survive.

I don't think there is any reasonable way of trying to figure out the math after the rolling that wouldn't cause more problems.

Oh, and the player also picks up his dice and throws them into the trash.

As question can the riptide transfer mortal wounds from the nova reactor to drones?

The wording is that using the nova reactor gives you a mortal wound but the saviour protocol allows you to allocate *any* wound (of which a mortal one is a type) to a drone instead. That would imply you can offset the nova charge effects if you surround them with some cheap(er) drones?

Its kinda badly done in 8th. There is a lot of stuff that has to be rolled separately which really cracks play flow here. shooting 9 Weapons with 3 dice each and keeping track of hits/wounds is much more complicated then rolling 9 dice and maybe separate out the overcharges to a another die roll (roll a die if one get a MW no matter what)

Shadeseraph wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:
Honestly what disappoints me most is that every functional list I make now relies on stationary gunlines hiding at the back edge of the table and making use of long range guns and rules that force models not to move in order to be successful.

In contrast, my list from last edition was made entirely of mobile units, the slowest moving being relentless Broadsides.

Also... Is there ever a reason to take Bodyguards anymore? Savior Protocols is straight up better, and for the same price as upgrading from regular Crisis Suits to Bodyguards, you can take the drones you need for it.

Eh... Broadsides haven't been able to take relentless since the good ol' times of 5th edition (well, and the short while in 6th edition where you could play with the 5th edition codex in 6th edition).

In fact, now with Target locks you can play the equivalent to those old relentless broadsides.

 Talamare wrote:
Broadsides are still good, HYMP is about equal to MP Crisis (HYMP is slightly better). Rail Rifles are viable, and should be taken into consideration. I would personally recommend either Target Lock, Advanced Targeting System (for HYMP), or Early Warning Override. While I want to say Broadsides are overcosted, they are actually about appropriate for what they can do. They are probably our best core Anti Tank system.

Previously they were severely overgunned for their durability (more than many MBC) which is why they managed to get away with very low prices. 8th edition seems to have set some kind of minimum distribution to avoid overly efficient units like the broadsides.

Honestly, my only complaint is that I would have preferred less output and cost instead of keeping their previous output compensated with a hike on durability and cost.

Farsight Enclaves Retaliation Cadre gave Broadsides relentless, as well as the ability to deepstrike. The list was quite fun, suits and drones and that was it, everything constantly in motion, and it took a fair amount of planning not to screw it up and get mauled.


As far as being over gunned... I think Space Marine Predators win that. Four lascannon shots for a hair over 200 points, on a fairly durable platform. The closest we can get is one slightly better shot for around 170, or two worse shots for about 180, depending on other gear. As far as antitank goes.. suicidal fusion suits are still the best bet, I think. With the new deepstrike it's not too hard to get that precision you need, and while you're not getting the reroll of the wound D6 your still getting 6-9 shots, which should put out some serious hurt. And you force the opponent to commit to their destruction, or suffer even worse next round.

 Whirlwind wrote:
As question can the riptide transfer mortal wounds from the nova reactor to drones?

The wording is that using the nova reactor gives you a mortal wound but the saviour protocol allows you to allocate *any* wound (of which a mortal one is a type) to a drone instead. That would imply you can offset the nova charge effects if you surround them with some cheap(er) drones?

That is my understanding so far. That could push Riptides into the usable range but only barely. While it'd be nice to shuck an 8pt drone for a heavy d6 S9/-3 every turn, 350pts is a huge amount to pay for them when you can readily get fusion elsewhere.

As for the detailed appraisal of units above, I agree with everything with the possible exceptions of the Commander and Hammerheads. I feel like Commanders may be our most efficient source of heavy firepower. While I haven't run any number to back that assertion up, it sure seems like 4 weapons or 3+ATS in the 150pt range on a platform that can't be singled out except by snipers could be very valuable. Similarly, a bunch of Hammerheads around Longstrike just need a single marker light to be ultra-reliable death machines. They don't appear to be the most durable of platforms, but at ~200pts, they're probably worth it. Ion cannons could be very interesting, indeed, in that situation.

 Whirlwind wrote:
As question can the riptide transfer mortal wounds from the nova reactor to drones?

The wording is that using the nova reactor gives you a mortal wound but the saviour protocol allows you to allocate *any* wound (of which a mortal one is a type) to a drone instead. That would imply you can offset the nova charge effects if you surround them with some cheap(er) drones?

While I said Yes, that you should be able to. I change my answer to No, you cannot. After reading some of the other armies. The game always specifies when it works against Mortal Wounds.

So instead of thinking of it as Mortal Wounds is a subset of Wounds. Think of it as if it said Mortal Bananas.

MilkmanAl wrote:

As for the detailed appraisal of units above, I agree with everything with the possible exceptions of the Commander and Hammerheads. I feel like Commanders may be our most efficient source of heavy firepower. While I haven't run any number to back that assertion up, it sure seems like 4 weapons or 3+ATS in the 150pt range on a platform that can't be singled out except by snipers could be very valuable. Similarly, a bunch of Hammerheads around Longstrike just need a single marker light to be ultra-reliable death machines. They don't appear to be the most durable of platforms, but at ~200pts, they're probably worth it. Ion cannons could be very interesting, indeed, in that situation.

 Talamare wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:
As question can the riptide transfer mortal wounds from the nova reactor to drones?

The wording is that using the nova reactor gives you a mortal wound but the saviour protocol allows you to allocate *any* wound (of which a mortal one is a type) to a drone instead. That would imply you can offset the nova charge effects if you surround them with some cheap(er) drones?

While I said Yes, that you should be able to. I change my answer to No, you cannot. After reading some of the other armies. The game always specifies when it works against Mortal Wounds.

So instead of thinking of it as Mortal Wounds is a subset of Wounds. Think of it as if it said Mortal Bananas.

But then why the reference to *any* wounds in the rules. Why not just state wounds as that would make things clearer. By stating *any* it implies there is more than one type of wounds (which there is) and hence they apply to both.

Bit of food for thought, but it seems like Vespid are flat out better than breachers now right? Both being Assault 2, but the vespid have more consistent (and longer) range without needing to pile into a devilfish repeatedly to get inside of 5 inches.

A unit i'v not seen mentioned here yet is the Coldstar Commander. with a 20"/40" move, and the equivalent of a double burst cannon, a missile pod, plus two system slots, it seems like it could be a fun one to use. Slap on ATS, split fire with the missiles. Possibly throw on a shield as the second system to have a T5, 3+/4/++ HQ that iirc the Wounds right can still hide behind other units. And the 20" move should possibly let it get right around hidden HQs to pelt them with S5 AP-1 shots instead of having to gun down the unit in front of them with almost complete impunity.

Tripod ATS (156)
T6 - 6 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = 5.55
T7 - 6 * 5/6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2 = 3.33
T8 - 6 * 5/6 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 2.22

Trion ATS (138)
T6 - 9 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 4.16
T7 - 9 * 5/6 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 2.50
T8 - 9 * 5/6 * 1/3 * 2/3 = 1.66

T6 - 6 * 2 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 5.55
T7 - 6 * 2 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 4.44
T8 - 6 * 2 * 5/6 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 3.33

Points Relation (lower is better)
Tripod || Trion vs Trion Overclocked
T6 - 28.10 || 33.17 vs 24.86
T7 - 46.84 || 55.20 vs 31.08
T8 - 70.27 || 83.13 vs 41.44

Kauyon? Mont'ka?

More like Monat~

I could't resist and made my own excel spreadsheet to make comparing the different weapon loadouts easier.
I would also like to add some graphs, but that's as far as my excel knowledge goes :-P
Point costs are for 1 Crisis with the corresponding loadout.

Ps: please tell me If I made any mistakes. Also, I didn't know how to incorporate choosing the higher Damage roll for fusion blasters, so I didn't include it. They don't seem to be worth taking anyways :(

 Talamare wrote:
Tripod ATS (156)
T6 - 6 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = 5.55
T7 - 6 * 5/6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2 = 3.33
T8 - 6 * 5/6 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 2.22

Trion ATS (138)
T6 - 9 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 4.16
T7 - 9 * 5/6 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 2.50
T8 - 9 * 5/6 * 1/3 * 2/3 = 1.66

T6 - 6 * 2 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 5.55
T7 - 6 * 2 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 4.44
T8 - 6 * 2 * 5/6 * 1/2 * 2/3 = 3.33

Points Relation (lower is better)
Tripod || Trion vs Trion Overclocked
T6 - 28.10 || 33.17 vs 24.86
T7 - 46.84 || 55.20 vs 31.08
T8 - 70.27 || 83.13 vs 41.44

Kauyon? Mont'ka?

More like Monat~

To be clear, your "points relation" number is points paid per wound dealt, correct? I know you ran similar stats for Crisis Suits against MEQs, and with a little quick-and-dirty adaptation of what you've done here, it appears that Commanders dramatically outperform their more junior counterparts. Am I misinterpreting anything?

However Hammerhead under Longstrikes buffs is on par with them RailRifle Broadside

In terms of damage output, sure, but Hammerheads are far more durable. That counts for a ton.

Aeri wrote:
I could't resist and made my own excel spreadsheet to make comparing the different weapon loadouts easier.
I would also like to add some graphs, but that's as far as my excel knowledge goes :-P
Point costs are for 1 Crisis with the corresponding loadout.

Ps: please tell me If I made any mistakes. Also, I didn't know how to incorporate choosing the higher Damage roll for fusion blasters, so I didn't include it. They don't seem to be worth taking anyways :(

Am I right to conclude that Plasma Rifle outside RF range and 2 Missile Pods + ATS (vs 1 wound) are the worst cost-effective options, while CIBs are the best?

I don't see a good reason to overcharge a Cyclic Ion Raker - what am I missing?

The D6 shots instead of flat 6 seems like a bad trade.