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what are the numbers to the left? wounds caused?

Work wouldn't let me download that Excel sheet, but now that i see it...damn. Thanks a lot for that, Aeri.

For the CIR, I don't really have any idea why you'd overcharge it, especially with ATS as an add-on.

 Vector Strike wrote:
what are the numbers to the left? wounds caused?

Average Damager per Point for that category. So (Damage Output * 100) / Points. It's multiplied by 100 just to have a more readable figure.

e.g.
The 2+ category averages all the values in the row for all toughnesses.
The T6+ category averags all the values with T6 and up for all armor saves.

On a bell curve overcharge is better, but it doesn't seem entirely worth it.

By the way, what that chart teaches me is that you should use an ATS on your Commander and dedicate a couple marker sources to him to get the benefits of a MT. Have your cake and eat it, too! Overcharged CIBs sound pretty darn nice when you can reroll your 1s.

 Talamare wrote:
Crisis Missile Pod, Tri vs ATS

Assumes T6 4+Save, T7 3+Save
Tripod(114)
T6 - 6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 2.66
T7 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.5
T8 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.0

ATS(98)
T6 - 4 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = 2.22
T7 - 4 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2 = 1.33
T8 - 4 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 0.88

vs HYMP (162)
T6 - 8 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 3.55
T7 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2 = 2.00
T8 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.33

By points relation (Lower is better)
Tripod vs ATS vs HYMP
T6 - 42.85 vs 44.14 vs 45.63
T7 - 76.00 vs 73.68 vs 81.00
T8 - 114.0 vs 111.36 vs 121.8

Thus ATS is better since it's cheaper and more efficient.

Add ATS HYMP Broadside (170 pts)
T6 - 8 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = 4.44
T7 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2 = 2.67
T8 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 1.78

I believe, using your numbers
T6 - 38.29
T7 - 63.67
78 - 95.51

That roughly translates into more efficient, point per point, even if you don't take into account the extra weapons the Broadside takes are also benefitting from the ATS - that can include SMS, with Plasma Rifles costing and benefitting less.

Or you might consider a Broadside with EWO. Slightly less efficient when firing the HYMP and only the HYMP per shooting phase, but the HYMP might be getting an extra shooting phase or two (or, minimally, provide strong incentive to make the 9" no Deepstrike Zone into a <12" I Told You So zone for the enemy).

A HYMP Broadside with a CDS has an advantage when making Overwatch attacks - almost doubling its efficiency in that phase.

MilkmanAl wrote:
To be clear, your "points relation" number is points paid per wound dealt, correct? I know you ran similar stats for Crisis Suits against MEQs, and with a little quick-and-dirty adaptation of what you've done here, it appears that Commanders dramatically outperform their more junior counterparts. Am I misinterpreting anything?

Correct, Commanders are vastly better than Crisis Suits. Crisis Suits are currently overcosted garbage. I would recommend Stealth Suits with Drone Controller and ATS. They are slightly weaker than Crisis Suits, but are really cheap per squad. As well as putting a Drone Controller on one of them doesn't cause that Suit to lose most of it's effectiveness. I would recommend taking as many Commanders as possible. The only viable thing Crisis Suits do better than Commanders is spamming Flamers.

Finally the way of the 'Monat' is similar to Kuayon or Mont'ka, but instead it means a Personal Path to the Greater Good.

However Hammerhead under Longstrikes buffs is on par with them RailRifle Broadside

In terms of damage output, sure, but Hammerheads are far more durable. That counts for a ton.

Arguably more durable, while it's true that they have higher base stats. Broadsides have an insane amount of extra wounds due to Drones absorbing fire. As I also said in this thread, Gun Drones are INSANITY!!! You should take as many as possible.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Am I right to conclude that Plasma Rifle outside RF range and 2 Missile Pods + ATS (vs 1 wound) are the worst cost-effective options, while CIBs are the best?

No, Plasma Rifle is pretty garbage. Only really useful against targets that the rest of the army absolutely DEMOLISHES.
Missile Pod+ATS is amazing because it hurts Tanks while having a ton of range.
CIB is the best overall and will be the one everyone spams.
CIB is the new Plasma Rifle, but better.

The only useful Crisis Suit weapons are Flamer, CIB, Missile Pod, and Fusion Blaster.
Altho ABFG is really cute, even if it's mathematically ineffective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
I don't see a good reason to overcharge a Cyclic Ion Raker - what am I missing?

The D6 shots instead of flat 6 seems like a bad trade.

I think the problem with the CIR is that they figured the same idea for the CIB would work with it.

However, what they didn't realize is that 1d3 is effectively only 1 less shot than 3. While 1d6 is about 3 less shots than 6.

The only time that it would make sense to Overclock the CIR would be against Toughness 8, where S7 would be at a penalty...

 Vector Strike wrote:

Aeri wrote:
I could't resist and made my own excel spreadsheet to make comparing the different weapon loadouts easier.
I would also like to add some graphs, but that's as far as my excel knowledge goes :-P
Point costs are for 1 Crisis with the corresponding loadout.

Ps: please tell me If I made any mistakes. Also, I didn't know how to incorporate choosing the higher Damage roll for fusion blasters, so I didn't include it. They don't seem to be worth taking anyways :(

Am I right to conclude that Plasma Rifle outside RF range and 2 Missile Pods + ATS (vs 1 wound) are the worst cost-effective options, while CIBs are the best?

Correct.
Plasma only shines against 1 wound Models in rapidfire range, singe the MPs and CIBs extra damage is wasted against those.
What Plasma Needs is a damage modifier or at least D2 to be worth the risk of getting so close. Then it would outperform the CIBs in Close range and you had to Make the tactical descission.
Singe Terminators got 1 extra wound Plasma cant even serve for hunting those...

There is 1 Thing about Plasma that is appealing.
Because of it's high AP value it is quite relliable, while CIB and MP rely on volume of fire. Might bei worth considdering...

Also: MP ans CIB values always assume the model has atleast 3 wounds. There is 1 table for MP against single wound Models in my sheet. You can See that ist becomes very expensive against those. Might be worth comparing Plasma/MP/CIB against 2w Models.

// Written by cellphone

I've been playing around with stuff I have in my collection and every time I removed a tank it just got better (I don't have many suits, I played a fire warrior focussed army in devilfish). I eventually came up with the below and.... it scares me.

This setup makes 288 S5 shots, rerolling 1s to hit a turn at 36 inches. 432 at 18 inches. It has some small Kroot and Pathfinder squads to scout forwards and screen out T1 charges and can easily make sure there is no 9" gap in their own deployment zone whilst still maintaining all benefits, additionally, the grav-inhibitor drones make those long charges very tough.

With just the pulse rifles at maximum range, they are taking half the wounds off a Knight per turn. They wipe out 50+ marines, nuke land raiders, kill over 100 orcs/stealers/etc. And then they still have 32 S7 AP-1 shots that do d3 wounds. Also, they have a 4+/6++ followed by a 6+ to ignore any wounds they suffer, making them pretty durable for a 1 wound guy and you need to kill a lot of them to drop their effectiveness. Sure it relies heavily on the characters to work correctly, but it can protect them from snipers with shield drones long enough for the torrent of fire to remove the snipers.

Oh did I mention it has 10 CPs? Nice little bonus.

So what are the major weaknesses of this army I missed?

Battallion Detachment (860pts)

HQ (88 pts)

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Cadre Fire Blade 42 Pts

Troops (772 Pts)

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

Battallion Detachment (860 pts)

HQ (88 pts)

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Cadre Fire Blade 42 Pts

Troops (772 Pts)

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

Outrider Detachment (280 pts)

HQ (92 pts)

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Fast Attack (188 Pts)

5 Pathfinders 78 Pts
Pulse Accelerator Drone, Grav Inhibitor Drone, 2 Shield Drones

5 Pathfinders 78 Pts
Pulse Accelerator Drone, Grav Inhibitor Drone, 2 Shield Drones

4 Kroot Hounds 16 Pts

4 Kroot Hounds 16 Pts

Is that 174 models? my only critique would be to remove 2 firewarriors from each squad and replace them with the 2 gundrones each strike team is permitted to take (4 strength 5 shots each!) since they are tougher, faster and killier for the same points, and they will provide more ablative wounds for the ethereals and fireblades necessary for the list to work because every sniper will be focusing them down. Apart from that, the list looks really good, and I do believe swarmy foot T'au will be the ideal way to run them! Cheers!

It is! Hmmm. the gun drones might be a good choice. I have plenty lying around. And it's 5 shots each when near a fireblade, at a range of 24". Will have to find the right balance for drones vs Firewarriors. That is a steadily increasing storm of fire though you do not want to be within 18" of it!

Drager wrote:
It is! Hmmm. the gun drones might be a good choice. I have plenty lying around. And it's 5 shots each when near a fireblade, at a range of 24". Will have to find the right balance for drones vs Firewarriors. That is a steadily increasing storm of fire though you do not want to be within 18" of it!

It's 6 shots, they have 2 different guns. Each gun gets a shot.

This keeps getting better.

Where are you getting 288 shots at max range from ? Fireblades only give you an extra shot at half range.

Also for every Fire Warrior unit to get the extra 6" range they all have to be within 3" of 1 of your 2 pulse accelerator drones - that's either not possible or you're giving a golden consolidation opportunity to any durable CC unit out there.

The drones themselves are all separate units after deployment and cannot in turn trigger savoir protocols (that protects inf and battlesuits only) so expecting the fancy drones to be alive after the first turn is also unrealistic, they can be shot by anything trivially.

And finally with that many deployments you're almost certainly going 2nd. With such a static list that doesn't seem like a great plan either.

Making an error that's where! OK, so it's only 144 shots at max range (36) and a ridiculous number (432) at 18". My assumption was that they would be firing without marker light support, though.

Let me do some recalculation. It drops it to like 50 stealers or such dead at long range (cause still going to assume no marker light support), obviously a lot more at short range. Against a big target, I can probably get a good deal of marker hits so let's assume I get the +1 to hit. That takes it to about 6 wounds against a Knight class enemy at max range from rifles, plus another 4 from missiles. Still decent. Obviously, if things come close it gets worse for them, but at range you are still crippling/destroying single heavy targets or deleting multiple squads. I'll take it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The fancy drones are individual models which make them trivial to keep out of sight. The CC unit would have to be exceptionally durable and then is likely to only engage the front rank at first, wipe them and move into the second. The further back ranks can then fire when Rank 2 falls back. It's not hard to get 6 units within 3" of a static drone. That gives you a 7" diameter circle into which you must have 6 models. Not a big ask.

Saviour protocols won't protect the drones, true, but they will protect the characters and its really only the pulse accelerator that is very important.

Drager wrote:
I've been playing around with stuff I have in my collection and every time I removed a tank it just got better (I don't have many suits, I played a fire warrior focussed army in devilfish). I eventually came up with the below and.... it scares me.

This setup makes 288 S5 shots, rerolling 1s to hit a turn at 36 inches. 432 at 18 inches. It has some small Kroot and Pathfinder squads to scout forwards and screen out T1 charges and can easily make sure there is no 9" gap in their own deployment zone whilst still maintaining all benefits, additionally, the grav-inhibitor drones make those long charges very tough.

With just the pulse rifles at maximum range, they are taking half the wounds off a Knight per turn. They wipe out 50+ marines, nuke land raiders, kill over 100 orcs/stealers/etc. And then they still have 32 S7 AP-1 shots that do d3 wounds. Also, they have a 4+/6++ followed by a 6+ to ignore any wounds they suffer, making them pretty durable for a 1 wound guy and you need to kill a lot of them to drop their effectiveness. Sure it relies heavily on the characters to work correctly, but it can protect them from snipers with shield drones long enough for the torrent of fire to remove the snipers.

Oh did I mention it has 10 CPs? Nice little bonus.

So what are the major weaknesses of this army I missed?

Battallion Detachment (860pts)

HQ (88 pts)

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Cadre Fire Blade 42 Pts

Troops (772 Pts)

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

Battallion Detachment (860 pts)

HQ (88 pts)

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Cadre Fire Blade 42 Pts

Troops (772 Pts)

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 136 Pts
2 Missile Pod Turrets

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

12 Strike Team Firewarriors 114 Pts
Marker Drone, Guardian Drone

Outrider Detachment (280 pts)

HQ (92 pts)

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Ethereal 46 Pts
Equalisers

Fast Attack (188 Pts)

5 Pathfinders 78 Pts
Pulse Accelerator Drone, Grav Inhibitor Drone, 2 Shield Drones

5 Pathfinders 78 Pts
Pulse Accelerator Drone, Grav Inhibitor Drone, 2 Shield Drones

4 Kroot Hounds 16 Pts

4 Kroot Hounds 16 Pts

That is seriously a f**k ton of models.

144 shots at 36:
Around 72 will hit on average.
Around 12 more hits with re-roll
Of those 84 shots the wounds will be:
T3 or 4: Around 55 wounds
T5: Around 42 wounds
T6, 7, 8 or 9: Around 28 wounds.

Assuming the majority of models are in the 3 or 4 bracket:
2+ save: 10 unsaved wounds
3+ save: 18 unsaved wounds
4+ save: 28 unsaved wounds
5+ save: 36 unsaved wounds
6+ save: 46 unsaved wounds

Whilst those numbers are awesome in theory, bear in mind a couple of things:
Firstly that is more or less your whole army shooting at 1 unit (maybe 2) to delete them (which is only possible maybe once in a game and isn't likely with terrain blocking LoS).
Secondly you're going to take losses which will reduce the number of shots.
You can roughly double/triple the numbers at half range.
It is very dependant on not moving and key characters.

The average for a single squad at 36" is (2+, 3+, 4+):
7 hits, 4-5 wounds and 0-1 unsaved, 1-2 unsaved, 2-3 unsaved.
at 18" (triple tap):
21 hits, 12-15 wounds. and 0-3 unsaved, 3-6 unsaved, 6-9 unsaved.

I like the list and concept but i feel like this kind of list only goes to emphasis that Tau now have to rely on weight of shots and spamming gimmicks to really compete in 8th.

Dont get me wrong it's powerful at danger close stages.

Drager wrote:

The fancy drones are individual models which make them trivial to keep out of sight. The CC unit would have to be exceptionally durable and then is likely to only engage the front rank at first, wipe them and move into the second. The further back ranks can then fire when Rank 2 falls back. It's not hard to get 6 units within 3" of a static drone. That gives you a 7" diameter circle into which you must have 6 models. Not a big ask.

Saviour protocols won't protect the drones, true, but they will protect the characters and its really only the pulse accelerator that is very important.

Not quite, they would form a small group together.
So each Grav + Accel drone would for a 2 Drone unit. Meaning they would need to travel together.

The downside to this is that the Grav Drone is a super high priority target for an assault army. Then again... Grav Drones don't need LoS... So I suppose it's easy to keep them hidden in a building.

Putting it another way, all that firepower kills 1 and a bit Rhino's at long range if they're in cover.

It really proves that taking the correct tool for the job is more effective than spamming the hell out of the same weapon. Which is good for the game!

Pretty much. Grav and Accel should be able to be hidden behind a wal.

HQ <-- Highly Desired
Commander / ShadowSun, ColdStar, FarSight
Ethereal / Aunshi, Aunva
Fireblade / Darkstrider
Longstrike

Elite <-- Expensive, Slightly Undesired
Kroot Shaper
Krootox
Crisis Battlesuit / Bodyguard
Stealth Suit
Ghostkeel
Riptide
Sniper Drone Marksman

Heavy <-- Partially Desired
Skyray
Hammerhead
Sniper Drones
Broadsides

Fast Attack <-- Highly Desired
Vespid
Tactical Drones
Pathfinders
Piranha
Kroot Hounds

Troops <-- Highly Desired
Strike Team
Breacher Team
Kroot Carnivores


For trying to get a Brigade, I feel that we won't have any issues with HQ and Troops since those are really strong for us.
Fast attack is also a non-issue since Pathfinders, Drones, and Vespids are all really strong.
Our Heavy options are arguably some of our best Anti Tank options, so they aren't undesired. However, they are really expensive making it a little difficult.

Our Elites are currently our weakest point. Crisis Suits are worse than spamming Monat. Riptide is pretty overnerfed. Kroot........ Stealth Suits might be our best option for their relatively low cost, but it's not like they are really desired.
Final option is just to take Sniper Drone Marksman, they are only 24 points each and count as a slot.

 Talamare wrote:


I think the problem with the CIR is that they figured the same idea for the CIB would work with it.

However, what they didn't realize is that 1d3 is effectively only 1 less shot than 3. While 1d6 is about 3 less shots than 6.

The only time that it would make sense to Overclock the CIR would be against Toughness 8, where S7 would be at a penalty...

Hmm. I made a script that models dice rolls and iterates a salvo 65,000 times just so I can visualize.

It reduces the chance for 0 damage from ~65% to ~60% and splits that difference to 1 and 2 damage. A tiny extra on 3 and 4. This was against T8 3+.



Oh...you know what...it's a terminator/primaris killer.

vs T4 2+

XeZZ wrote:
Its kinda badly done in 8th. There is a lot of stuff that has to be rolled separately which really cracks play flow here. shooting 9 Weapons with 3 dice each and keeping track of hits/wounds is much more complicated then rolling 9 dice and maybe separate out the overcharges to a another die roll (roll a die if one get a MW no matter what)

Perhaps consider getting dice of different colors? I have red, white, black, yellow, blue, clear....

Brigade Detachment
Sub Teams
Cadre Fireblade - 42
Strike Team(5 man) - 40
Strike Team(5 man) - 40
Pathfinders(5 man) - 40
Broadside (Rails, Plasma Rifle, EWO) - 173
Stealthsuits ([Fusion/VT], [Burst, DC], [Burst]) - 108
7 Drones - 56

= 499 x3, or 1497 points.

30 Firewarriors, 21 Drones, 9 Stealth Suits

I like the combo of using the Stealth Suit homing beacon to drop a triple flamer crisis team in range and just melt something. Kind of expensive, but really fun to roll 9d6 s4 hits

 Whirlwind wrote:
As question can the riptide transfer mortal wounds from the nova reactor to drones?

The wording is that using the nova reactor gives you a mortal wound but the saviour protocol allows you to allocate *any* wound (of which a mortal one is a type) to a drone instead. That would imply you can offset the nova charge effects if you surround them with some cheap(er) drones?

The nova reactor makes the riptide "suffer a mortal wound". The saviour drones allow you to "allocate" wounds on them. Allocating wounds is a specific activity mentioned in the fight and shooting phases in the main rulebook, at a determined point of the turn - as such, assigning a wound to a model doesn't intrinsically imply that you are "allocating" that wound, and as such, they can't be redirected to your drones.

So how do you guys feel about Commander spam? While not incredibly durable for the cost, being characters provides a fair amount of protection, and they aren't terribly easily sniped. As was shown, they also spew a ton of reliable firepower. Maybe a Supreme Command detachment plus a Brigade for a total of 5 Commanders might be useful. Missile pods would likely be my weapon of choice to maximize damage at range. Toss in a couple Kroot units to stymie charges and some Pathfinders. Gun Drones and FW to taste for horde control, and voila!

So is 2000 really the middle ground for matched play? That takes the sting off some of these point increases.

I'm really curious how good the coldstar would be as an assassin unit. Straight up 40" advancement pretty much guarantees you optimum angle on whatever you want. Include the TL to do so with impunity, but what else? I feel like even with a shield generator he's going to get himself in serious trouble.

Also, loving all the math in this thread, feel like I've dodged a bullet trying to make plasma work. Keep it up!

MilkmanAl wrote:
So how do you guys feel about Commander spam? While not incredibly durable for the cost, being characters provides a fair amount of protection, and they aren't terribly easily sniped. As was shown, they also spew a ton of reliable firepower. Maybe a Supreme Command detachment plus a Brigade for a total of 5 Commanders might be useful. Missile pods would likely be my weapon of choice to maximize damage at range. Toss in a couple Kroot units to stymie charges and some Pathfinders. Gun Drones and FW to taste for horde control, and voila!

They honestly aren't even very expensive for what they do.
It's only 34 points + the cost of the additional gun.

Monat Tau is going to become mainstream.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

I'm really curious how good the coldstar would be as an assassin unit. Straight up 40" advancement pretty much guarantees you optimum angle on whatever you want. Include the TL to do so with impunity, but what else? I feel like even with a shield generator he's going to get himself in serious trouble.

I think they should consider making Coldstar into a unique character. The name is cool enough. His unique aspects are cool enough.
FARSIGHT
SHADOWSUN
COLDSTAR

Fits right in!
As far as support systems go, he basically NEEDS to bring ATS to be a threat. So the question is TL or Shield(or even Stims). You don't really need to move 40" every turn. Moving 20" is more than enough usually. Even if you do move 40", he still hits on 3+.

FYI

Tau are playing Khorne in matched play today on Twitch:

https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer

Free to watch live.

I haven't really taken a super hard look at the index that is at the FLGS yet but am just coming back to 40k after playing fantasy and Kings of war for a number of years. Last time I played was in 6th Ed but never really built up my Tau to much.
I really wanted to go with a suit heavy army and have 9 XV8 suits. From what I'm reading the suits now are a little overpriced (especially broadsides).

I'm reading that the Riptide is also pretty expensive? What would you equipt a Riptide with if you did want to use one? Never even played with a tide before but picked one up a few months back cause I wanted to get back in and now thinking it was not a wise choice in 8th?

Was thinking of going a ton of XV8 suits(mix in cyclic ion blaster, missile pods and maybe a few fusion blasters?), 1 Riptide, maybe 2 units of 12 firewarriors, possibly a squad of stealth suits and Probably a hammerhead with railrifle and a piranha for fun! Not sure if that would be viable at all tho. Also where are the points in the index? When I was flipping through it at the FLGS it just showed the power level in the top left for each unit but didn't say anything about the points? Those in the main rulebook or?

OK so after looking at the basics it's looking like GW wants less battlesuits on the table, which were basically the best part of the army. That is a real bummer as they are great models. But it also looks like other armies saw some significant price hikes when it comes to monstrous creatures and vehicles so I guess, in a competitive sense, it's a bit of a wash. But the nerf to markerlights seems to make Riptides near unplayable if you want to move them - as a 5+ BS is no go for a 350+ point unit. So am I to understand that anything with a heavy weapon for Tau, for practical purposes, is just stationary artillery? You really aren't going to want to move them if they start with a 4+ BS and it goes to 5+. Have the rules for the shield wall changed or can I start placing my heavy weapon suits on them to negate the penalty to move and shoot?


Watching the Tau and Khorne matched play...Kroot charging
bloodletters...lol. Well this might be a thing...