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Latest incarnation factoring in some reading:

5CP

Spearhead Detachment

HQ:
Belisarius Cawl
[250]

Elites:
Cybernetica Datasmith
Gamma, Fist
[52]

Cybernetica Datasmith
Gamma, Fist
[52]

Heavy:
(3) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[330]

(3) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[330]

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[130]

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus Array, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[130]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser & Cognis Heavy Stubber, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad Spectrum Data-tether
[151]

Outrider Detachment

HQ:
Tech-Priest Dominus
Eradication Ray, Macrostubber
[141]

Elites:
(4) Servitors
2x Heavy Bolters, 2x Servo-Arms
[52]

Fast Attack:
Ironstrider Balistarii
Twin Cognis Lacannon
[95]

Ironstrider Balistarii
Twin Cognis Lacannon
[95]

Ironstrider Balistarii
Twin Cognis Lacannon
[95]

Ironstrider Balistarii
Twin Cognis Lacannon
[95]

[1998]

Servitors may rank low, but they are not awful point filler. The funny thing is they are an exact point swap for a Datasmith, so if they don't work and I find 2 Datasmith inadequate, that is an easy switcheroo.

Not a major deviation from my most recent list. Really focused on firepower. Balistarii for anti-tank and anti-MC, Icarus Dunecrawlers do obviously knock out flyers, but to throw down a lot of generic firepower (hits on 4+ with a load of shots). Phosphor bots are obvious. Cawl for re-rolls. Dominus because second HQ, but helps spread some re-roll love if I don't want to cluster up.

Thoughts? Think this is a good direction? I know Hordes will swamp me, but I don't expect anyone to go full horde.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Ah, wonderful... I have all the bad units...

Servitors look to be the main bad unit because of the servo arm cost. It will be interesting to see how things shape up as more people play and we get additional feedback. I think most units are viable, sure some may be rated higher, but there are some that are the only option, Dragoons for a fast CC unit for example. Also roles are different, along with play style. I recall reading in the 7th edition thread that someone liked rust stalkers even though they were considered to be bad...

For those of us that are not Mars, or don't have Cawl, what is the load out for the Dominus? It seems the stock load out is what people are using from the lists that have been posted so far. I will probably magnetize them.

I'm still thinking about how to split up my infantry. I have 40 vanguard and 20 rangers. I'm thinking units of 10 for the vanguard and units of 5 for the rangers. The only real tax I see would be the omnispex, and I plan to build 6 of those. The two ranger onmispex would go to the squads that have the majority of the TA.

So thought of a list the other day for 2K, keepign in the spirit of the war Convo, and the fact FLG said they're even better now it has a knight

Ad Mech Battalion detachment +single LOW

Cawl
Tech priest with volkite & Stubber

Skitarri ranger x5, 2 arqbus + Omnispex
Skitari Vanguard X5 1 plasma arc maul
Skitari Ranger X5 1 arc rifle
Skitari Vanguard x 5

Kastellan X3, Phosphor/Twin phosphor

Datasmith

Fulgurite electro priests x10

Dunecrawler - Neutron + stubber
Dunecrawler - Icarus

Knight Crusader - Battle cannon, Gatling, 1 stubber

Its about 1999 points

bortass wrote:

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Ah, wonderful... I have all the bad units...

Servitors look to be the main bad unit because of the servo arm cost. It will be interesting to see how things shape up as more people play and we get additional feedback. I think most units are viable, sure some may be rated higher, but there are some that are the only option, Dragoons for a fast CC unit for example. Also roles are different, along with play style. I recall reading in the 7th edition thread that someone liked rust stalkers even though they were considered to be bad...

For those of us that are not Mars, or don't have Cawl, what is the load out for the Dominus? It seems the stock load out is what people are using from the lists that have been posted so far. I will probably magnetize them.

I'm still thinking about how to split up my infantry. I have 40 vanguard and 20 rangers. I'm thinking units of 10 for the vanguard and units of 5 for the rangers. The only real tax I see would be the omnispex, and I plan to build 6 of those. The two ranger onmispex would go to the squads that have the majority of the TA.

I'll be using two Dominus(es?i?) for the most part, I dont think Cawl is worth the extra 110~ for reroll all versus 1's in a BS3+ army. I think stock is the best way to go. The E-ray is too short ranged for my taste, and unless the Phosphor rule gets modified or clarified to work for the whole turn, I'll be staying away from that. If it does tho, I will probably slap one on in a heartbeat.

I like omnispex even on vanguard, as marines getting that 2+ in cover just disgusts me


I still dont have a real role for the Dragoon yet. I feel like we're sitting here at distraction carnifex territory with them. I appreciate every unit not needing to be good at everything, but which situation is it designed to excel at? I'm stumped.

I've never understood the Dragoon really...

I don't have Kastellans yet, so my WarCon style is a tad heavier:

2 Doms,
6 Rangers
6 Van
6 Van
6 Infs
3 Onagers (2 Icarius, 1 Neutron)
1 Ironstrider
1 Crusdar (570 points worth)

Comes in the 1998 range with options. Thinking about dropping the CP's and a Dom to pick up two more IRonstriders so I can keep my 3/6/12 fluff going...

I only own one Dragoon right now, equipped with the Taser Lance. I'm thinking of switching for the Radium Jezzail because I'm simply used to its terrible performances in CC (best thing he did was to destroy a Rhino in 7th Ed Kill Team), but the -1 to hit on a highly mobile unit seems odd. As for its sniping capabilities, he'll need to move to make a nice shot so 4+ to hit, and no AP at all. At least it's two shots and you can dish a mortal wound, and you'll wound on 3+ most of the time. Still, not convinced. I think I'll test him once more in an upcoming game to decide his fate. I'm certain it's worth taking in numbers of 2-3 but the models are expensive in money for their point cost.

So, has anyone else noticed that technically an Onager doesn't have a 6W profile?

Huh, you're right. Its top bracket is 7-11, its second bracket is 3-5. What happens at 6?

I have 3 Dragoons/Ironstrider models that are yet to be built. I will magnetize them and run with the taser lance. If they are not working for me after a few games, I think I can swap them over to ironstriders by adding the gun shield.

I'm coming at this from the ground up since I never played 7th. The dragoon seems decent with the lance. They are immune from overwatch, thanks to incense cloud, and the lance causes three hits on a to hit roll of 6. I haven't done any math hammering but a unit of 3 should get about 9 hits in, off the top of my head. 6 hits, 1.5 of which are a 6 so 4.5 base hits and 4.5 hits from 6s. It may not be awesome but it could put the hurt on smaller units which is what Dragoons seem to be built for. But then again, I'm clueless, lol.

Resets back to full Wounds.

bortass wrote:
I have 3 Dragoons/Ironstrider models that are yet to be built. I will magnetize them and run with the taser lance. If they are not working for me after a few games, I think I can swap them over to ironstriders by adding the gun shield.

I'm coming at this from the ground up since I never played 7th. The dragoon seems decent with the lance. They are immune from overwatch, thanks to incense cloud, and the lance causes three hits on a to hit roll of 6. I haven't done any math hammering but a unit of 3 should get about 9 hits in, off the top of my head. 6 hits, 1.5 of which are a 6 so 4.5 base hits and 4.5 hits from 6s. It may not be awesome but it could put the hurt on smaller units which is what Dragoons seem to be built for. But then again, I'm clueless, lol.

Careful, I thought they were immune to Overwatch too but after reading a bit the rules, Overwatch states that you can only hit the charging unit on a 6, regardless of any modifiers. Sorry, I was sad too

Well in theory they're supposed to hurt by personnaly they barely wounded people on 7th, they just locked infantry in CC forever because they couldn't hurt me. I'll see if this new edition helps them, I had a game with one but didn't place him right and got one shot by a Fusion Pistol wagon.

After 2k pts vs tyranids
Knight Crusader :p
Cawl
Onagers
Were the standout units. Everyone is mars. Who cares what color you are. No one but you.
Kastelans died too fast.
Skitatii were OK
Infiltrators wrecked face
Datasmith is bad because 2+ saves are awful. Take 1 for kastelans
Balistarii is bad on autocannon
Dragoons are pretty good
Kastelans got focused fired sadly. Didn't really test them
Dominus is filler hq
I won though. Main lessons learned - don't pile in into flyers since they just hit you and fly away. Be very aware of smite

Anyone try out Infiltrators yet? I am looking for a highly mobile unit that can pop up and grab objectives across the board and still move reasonably fast. The rest of my current force is very much slow.

What killed your Kastellans and how were they loaded out if you dont mind me asking?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
After 2k pts vs tyranids
Knight Crusader :p
Cawl
Onagers
Were the standout units. Everyone is mars. Who cares what color you are. No one but you.
Kastelans died too fast.
Skitatii were OK
Infiltrators wrecked face
Datasmith is bad because 2+ saves are awful. Take 1 for kastelans
Balistarii is bad on autocannon
Dragoons are pretty good
Kastelans got focused fired sadly. Didn't really test them
Dominus is filler hq
I won though. Main lessons learned - don't pile in into flyers since they just hit you and fly away. Be very aware of smite

People who care about their fluff cares about their color, so no Mars for me. I'm actually happy they've set up those keywords to somewhat forbid Space Marine players and such of using 6 different characters and switching chapter tactics as they saw fit every game. So I'll keep my Noctholm Forge-World. Plus it's dumb to see a named character die to an Ork Boy.

What do you mean 2+ saves are awful ? Because of new modifiers ? How did he die ?
Your opponent was wise to focus Kastelans, just wondering how he got to them that fast ?
How do Tyranids have access to Smite ? They have Psykers ?
Yeah my Dominus was pretty useless too against those Harlequin-Ynnari. I was boasting of his new durability until he lost exactly 6 Wounds on a single round of combat (I hate Jain Zarr and her "no overwatch" aura to Banshees). I'll play my next game more carefully though.

Tyranids have quite a bit of Psyker access. All their HQ choices are Psykers,

3 flying psykers with D3 mortal wounds each.
1 kastelan died from: drop pod, carnifex, elite (support) unit in back, 3 biovores(they do mortal wounds...), The other died from smites since he can't move.

2+ before was almost immortal. Now it just becomes a 5+ or worse 99% of the time. Or just mortal wound the bitch

BTW opponent had
10 genestealers
10 genestealers
30 gargoyles
30 hormagaunts
3 flying hive tyrands
carnifex in droppod
6 warriors
3 hive guard
3 venomthropes
3 biovores

So yeah it was kinda scary seeing all that horde coming to me. But I just deployed in the corner while he deployed his stuff to cover everything and had to run to the corner.
Infiltrators were amazing. They're pretty much untouchable by and DESTROY hordes of melee dudes. Killed 30 hermagaunts in 1 turn, they didn't even care.
Knight Crusader just shot up a storm
150 of skitarii did what they had to - wasted time
Cawl's re-roll is amazing
Onagers are really good for their cost
Datasmith did feth all and died like a little bitch

BTW, Cawl died on turn 4. He was surrounded by like 2 hordes (or what's left of them), a drop pod and a hive tyrant. So I used the stratagem after the tyrant dropped me to 1 wound, used mechadendrites against one of the hordes and the axe against the drop pod. And the drop pod exploded with 3 mortal wounds to all his stuff. (Cawl died obviously)
It was glorious "If I'm going down... I'M TAKING YOU WITH ME"

edit: my two kastelans were full phosphor obviously

Should the Onagers be loaded out with the array or Neutron laser? The array has so many shots I'm almost sure it's worth the -1 bs.

Also, why are Destroyers being ranked so low?

DjPyro3 wrote:
Should the Onagers be loaded out with the array or Neutron laser? The array has so many shots I'm almost sure it's worth the -1 bs.

Also, why are Destroyers being ranked so low?

Both are great
Destroyers are good in a vacuum
However Onagers and Kastelans cover the same role and do more damage, from better range, are more survivable and CHEAPER. Why would you EVER take them?

Before they had the niche of grav. Now grav is very situational

DjPyro3 wrote:
Should the Onagers be loaded out with the array or Neutron laser? The array has so many shots I'm almost sure it's worth the -1 bs.

Also, why are Destroyers being ranked so low?

I prefer the laser (it has nothing to do with the fact I call my Onager a Donkeytank with a frickin' laser on its head). That damage profile can be devastating. The minus one to hit some flyers just isn't enough of a drawback to not take the laser to me. I might put the array on 1/3 Onager though. I haven't totally decided yet.

Musings about the general list building
In order to build a sucessful AdMech list you should have at least 50% in heavy artilery
Onagers are amazing but they take up 1 spot each and they're not that good vs hordes
Since the Knight is so good, you will usually only have 3 spots for heavy unless you want to pay the dominus tax.
Therefor you should always take 2 onagers and a unit of kastelans(add bots to fill points) if you have 3 spots.
Kastelans are better at: hordes, fighting, filling points. The last bit is VERY important


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think that allying in 1 psyker/denier is really important

Also for everyone looking for what to buy:
3 start collecting (only 1 Dominus is useless out of ALL 3 packs. Really great value)
Cawl
Imperial Knight
2-3 packs of Kastelans
1-2 infiltrators
1-2 electropriests
2-3 ironstriders





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Last post about this.
Here are the final(-ish) versions of the AdMech+Knights+Inquisition+Assassins+Librarians+Fortifications and Chaos Daemons+Knights+Heldrakes Indexes and list builders as well as a summary of the rulebook.
How to use the List Builders:
Copy rows into the new competitive list tab and insert them just bellow the first row for every UNIT you want to add.
Then change parameters in the cells with RED borders. The YELLOW cells will change by themselves. If you mess something up - a cell with the error will appear.
Have fun playing 8th edition. It's great (unless you're Tzeentch)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4SQd_H1eW8S2U4Qnl3dWpqU0E

If you find any errors or are having trouble using this - tell me

I've been thinking about what you guys sais about the Kataphron Destroyers and realised they were really expensive now. 228 points for three Grav-Cannons/Cognis Flamers combo, on models that may ignore the penalty for moving but still only have 5". They're less resistant thank Aegis Kastelan Robots too, and the grav is not as a no-brainer as it was before, not everyone has a 3+ save and when they do it's out of LoS or doesn't have more than 1 Wound anyway. I'll replace them by more Robots with twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters and Incendine Combustors. Want to equip two of them with Fists and single Phosphor gun too to see if it's a nice CC anti-MC/Tank unit.

The only advantage I see is that you can just park the Destroyers in a building on deployment to have the high ground (it's over Anakin) and a cover save, while the Robots now can't climb anymore.

So I just finished my first game of 8th! We played ~1400 (a little light, but we wanted to play all painted so...)

I took:

Battalion
Cawl
TPD
Vanguard x10 (1 PC, 1AR, Omni)
Rangersx10 (1 TUA, 1AR, Omni)
Breachers x3 (2 HAR, 1TC)
Destroyers x3 (2 PC, 1HGC)
Datasmith
Onager (Eray)
Kastelen (1Fists, 1HP)

Against FOOT GUARD. His list included well over a hundred infantry. 4+ Infantry squads, 4+ SWS (flamers, meltaguns/Democharge), 4 Command Squads (grenade launchers), 3 HWS, assorted commisars/commanders. Playing Valhallans, he ran across the board to shoot/assault me to death. I was more than a little nervous with all the bodies he had and my anti-vehicle meant nothing. We played kill point mission with old dawn of war deployment.

Some notes:
-Life was looking good to take first turn until he seized the initiative.
-Definitely should have opened up with in-cover Cantacile.
-Cawl reroll is a must have for Kataphron and Kastelen units. Mostly reroll/cantacle bot.
-TPD is Cawl light for Onager/Skitarii, can hold his own against non-specialized combat pretty well. Can't shoot macrostubber and volkite blaster in same turn. :(
-Vanguard performed great, withering amount of shots from this squad. Lost most to forgetting his Flamer SWS could run/shoot at no penalty.
-Rangers got one sniper shot off on a commissar, rolled one for damage. They ate 6d6 mortar shots back to back turns so they left. Get cover from mortars now. (how is one mortar squad of 3 only 27 points??)
-Breachers spend the game hunting HWS and popping them with d3 damage. Snipped head off commissar when charged, but didnt do much else once in CC for rest of game. Ate a lot of shots with their 2+ in cover and T5.
-Destroyers PC did lots of work, eliminating a squad a turn. HGC did okay. They are still Infantry so they get infantry cover rules for area terrain and stuff.
-Eray Onager was meh. D6 shots didnt do much against infantry spam. Rolled a 1 for shots going after Lascannon HWS. Used CP to reroll. Another 1. Did 1 wound to one squad. Lived all game bc ignored by enemy.
-Shooty Kastelen MVP in protector stance. Eliminated two SWS/Command squads a turn for two turns. First Kastelen ate an assaulting meltagun, died to a 6 on the d6. Second Kastlen had taken one wound, ate Krak missile that popped for 5. Feelsbadman.jpg
-Without a vehicle to shoot at, Datasmith just stood for most game and charged with his wiffing powerfist.

It ended with Cawl, the Datasmith, the TPD,and 2 breachers in CC with two guard squads and two more Guard squads out on the table. I got first blood and slay warlord, he had linebreaker. Final total- Mechanicus 25, Guard 5.

So to all those afraid of infantry hordes, do not fear! Just be sure to play Kill Points and all will be okay. I would have been able to keep him off a backfield objective and maybe shot him off a center one, for a much closer game than I anticipated.

"Can't shoot macrostubber and volkite blaster in same turn. :( "
gak, that's right... :/

Aaranis wrote:I've been thinking about what you guys sais about the Kataphron Destroyers and realised they were really expensive now. 228 points for three Grav-Cannons/Cognis Flamers combo, on models that may ignore the penalty for moving but still only have 5". They're less resistant thank Aegis Kastelan Robots too, and the grav is not as a no-brainer as it was before, not everyone has a 3+ save and when they do it's out of LoS or doesn't have more than 1 Wound anyway. I'll replace them by more Robots with twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters and Incendine Combustors. Want to equip two of them with Fists and single Phosphor gun too to see if it's a nice CC anti-MC/Tank unit.

The only advantage I see is that you can just park the Destroyers in a building on deployment to have the high ground (it's over Anakin) and a cover save, while the Robots now can't climb anymore.

They are a little expensive, but being troops its nice to fill that slot. Rather have them then more units of rangers/vanguard. I haven't taken them as grav yet but I think they are better all plasma+blaster. And a little cheaper at 210pts.

why cant he shoot volkite and stubber in same turn? You can shoot all range weapons in a turn.

I had 2 robots, and after 1 game went and bought 2 more boxes. All 6 are now 3 Blasters each. They don't need fists. Its a crazy amount of shots, and if they need to melee, are still STR 6 base. Being a shooty army, if you have the options of guns or melee, always guns. I let the melee be for the units they are only melee

gally912 wrote:So I just finished my first game of 8th! We played ~1400 (a little light, but we wanted to play all painted so...)

Some notes:
-Life was looking good to take first turn until he seized the initiative.
-Definitely should have opened up with in-cover Cantacile.
-Cawl reroll is a must have for Kataphron and Kastelen units. Mostly reroll/cantacle bot.
-TPD is Cawl light for Onager/Skitarii, can hold his own against non-specialized combat pretty well. Can't shoot macrostubber and volkite blaster in same turn. :(
-Vanguard performed great, withering amount of shots from this squad. Lost most to forgetting his Flamer SWS could run/shoot at no penalty.
-Rangers got one sniper shot off on a commissar, rolled one for damage. They ate 6d6 mortar shots back to back turns so they left. Get cover from mortars now. (how is one mortar squad of 3 only 27 points??)
-Breachers spend the game hunting HWS and popping them with d3 damage. Snipped head off commissar when charged, but didnt do much else once in CC for rest of game. Ate a lot of shots with their 2+ in cover and T5.
-Destroyers PC did lots of work, eliminating a squad a turn. HGC did okay. They are still Infantry so they get infantry cover rules for area terrain and stuff.
-Eray Onager was meh. D6 shots didnt do much against infantry spam. Rolled a 1 for shots going after Lascannon HWS. Used CP to reroll. Another 1. Did 1 wound to one squad. Lived all game bc ignored by enemy.
-Shooty Kastelen MVP in protector stance. Eliminated two SWS/Command squads a turn for two turns. First Kastelen ate an assaulting meltagun, died to a 6 on the d6. Second Kastlen had taken one wound, ate Krak missile that popped for 5. Feelsbadman.jpg
-Without a vehicle to shoot at, Datasmith just stood for most game and charged with his wiffing powerfist.

It ended with Cawl, the Datasmith, the TPD,and 2 breachers in CC with two guard squads and two more Guard squads out on the table. I got first blood and slay warlord, he had linebreaker. Final total- Mechanicus 25, Guard 5.

So to all those afraid of infantry hordes, do not fear! Just be sure to play Kill Points and all will be okay. I would have been able to keep him off a backfield objective and maybe shot him off a center one, for a much closer game than I anticipated.

Needed more Blasterbots! Im sure a squad of them kills a squad of guard a turn no problem.

Eray Onager looked rather meh. Laser and Icarus seem to be the way to go. Laser also gets the heavy stubber which helps vs hordes.

I thought breachers were horrid just by the profile, but after a few have played with them and said the same, glad I didn't build any. Never will.

I am excited to see when FW releases the AdMech book, brining in 30k to 40k. They really need it for some variety. As much as I like Cawl, he is pretty much mandatory for his amazing shoot bubble.

The best stuff id say are...

Blasterbots /Datasmith (really you always take him with bots so...)
Cawl (Id pay 250 alone for his bubble)
Laser Onager/Icarus (Solid AA and tank murderbot)
Plasma Destoryers (Can overcharge more often with Cawl reroll)
Tech PRiest Dom. (all around solid. )

Id never take
Breachers, (nuff said)
Ruststalkers. (Just a really bad version of Infiltrators. While infilatators with Taser are not to bad.)
Servitors. (If the army didn't cost an arm and a leg (baaa daa chishhh) they would be ok to spam, but to costly for that they are.)
Engineer.( I have one, and the model is cool but hes kinda pointless when there are better options.)

Everything else seems ok.
Rangers did as much as I expected, Vanguard will do the same.
Chicken walkers are cheap, but not sure how much they are needed.
Priests are kinda meh all around. Great if they kill something but unless in a large blob, they kinda just vanish off the table.

Destoryers are not good. If you say that Onagers and Kastelans are better then that means Destroyers are awful. You can just take those two to better effect. AND you can take a knight. Look at how many backfield units you have. Do you really need a 6th one? Better fill the troops with cheap vanguard to hold the line with their -1 toughness aura and 15 overwatch attacks

So, after reading and considering I've come up with the following based on what I've already got painted and what people seem to like. I was hoping for some suggestions on how to fill it in.

I'm using whatever formation is basically the old CAD.

HQ: Cawl
TP: 10 rangers, 3 arquebii, onmispex, enhanced dt
TP: 10 vanguard, 3 plasma caliver, enhanced dt, arc maul
EL: cybernetica data smith
EL: cybernetica data smith
EL?: 5x infiltrators (tazer/flachette)
HV: 4 kastellan robots (all guns)
HV: onager dunecrawler (Icarus), smoke, cognis heavy stubber
HV: onager dunecrawler (Icarus), smoke, cognis heavy stubber

Now if I've done my math right... that comes out to 1367 pts (no guarantees on the math).
There are some options... I could replace the Icarus Arrays with Neutron Lasers for example, I could split the skitarii troops into 2 units, or vary the special weapons in the skitarii units, etc.


Minor tweaks aside, I am hoping for some suggestions as to how to bring it up to 2000 pts. I have...

2 tech priests dominus
3 grav destroyers
3 arc breachers
2 tazer dragoons
5 rust stalkers
4 knights of different types (chainsword/fist, melta, gatling gun, FW knight lancer)

Thoughts?

@Git: Why smoke over the tether?

And thoughts overall from folks on Knights?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
@Git: Why smoke over the tether?

That's actually an excellent question em. I looked at it this way. Given the construction of the army... it's a) unlikely that any unit that suffers morale will be within 3" of the dunecrawlers... b) the skitarii shooting units already have their own data tether and c) while not terribly useful... the smoke is free.

That being said I did see that the dune crawlers actually have a morale value. Not knowing how morale affects vehicles I didn't realize this was something I should be concerned about. I should re-think that. Thanks em!

Knights are crazy good this edition