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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, for a unit of 5 with two Transuranic Arquebuses, Rangers or Vanguard? I know that the general thought is Vanguards, but Rangers have a bit more range (ha...) to them.

I am thinking(all 5 man) two units with 2x Arquebuses, one with 2x Plasma Caliver (definitely Vanguard here), and one with unknown. I am probably going to get two more Start Collectings, so two 10 man units to form a wall around my Onagers is also on the table.

Always go Rangers for your Arquebuses, Vanguards will just sit there and shoot at nobody. You may consider an Omnispex too if you want to run snipers. Vanguards all the way for the dirty jobs and the suicide missions. If you use Plasma, consider keeping your Techpriest Dominus close by to reroll the 1s to allow a safer Overcharge shot (for me Overcharge is all the point of Plasma this edition). Keeping them close to the Onagers is good if you equip the Onager with Broad-spectrum data tether, +1 Ld is nice to have and it's free (you won't get smoke launchers then).

Hi,

I have been wondering why all the focus of using only one detachment, and have the following questions:
1. Do command points from different or multiple detachments stack?
2. Adeptus Mechnicus "If you have a battle-forged army units only receive the bonus if every model in their detachment has this ability". What happens if you have two adeptus mechanicus detachments, where all models in the detachment have the canticle ability? Do you do canticle once pr detachment or once that applies to both? Also do canticles apply to the 2nd detachment?

1. Stack but inefficient
2. They just use them normaly

Anyone who plays ad mech 30k feel like we 8th makes us play like an ordo reductor list? Really, we are focused on our artillery and a spearhead detachment seems like the inevitable choice.

 buddha wrote:
Anyone who plays ad mech 30k feel like we 8th makes us play like an ordo reductor list? Really, we are focused on our artillery and a spearhead detachment seems like the inevitable choice.

I disagree. We need troops bad to avoid turn 1 charges and cap objectives (which count per model). And 1 Dominus is good for what it does:
A) an aditional aura to go forwards while cawl stays in the back
B) Fixing 2 things instead of 1
C) getting +2 CP
Spearhead for me seems bad unless it's a bonus detachment, which at that point - just go +9cp tbh

You can't get away with that many heavy support. It's too greedy and you will get punished.

 Aaranis wrote:
Why not just playing one big single Kastelan unit of 3-6 ? Sure you'll have less terrain covered but that frees up a slot for another Dunecrawler that will cover this terrain just as fast and without any movement penalties. I think the Robots should be set up on a central position with a bunch of your army around (like the TPD for rerolls), it's likely you'll face a better CC army in front of you and so you set up your defense point on the center and split-fire everything. Meanwhile you send your capturing units (like Infiltrators, Dragoons, Vanguards) to go well, capturing.

No one likes the Incendine Combustor ? Now that it's been buffed I really like it. 12" D6 hits, now at S5 AND -1 rend. Set them up in Protector protocol and no horde will survive entering your 24" bubble of prometheum and phosphor death.

A big unit is really bad. It gets locked in combat and your done. While if you have 2 units of 2 it makes your opponent need to try to lock up both.

also it doesent give you the flexablity of picking targets better. Remember you need to declare who is shooting who before rolling. If your one unit doesent kill something, you have the option of another taking it out or shooting something else.

Id never use the flamer, its trash. Guns are better for killing hordes. 18 Shots compared to d6....

str00dles1 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Why not just playing one big single Kastelan unit of 3-6 ? Sure you'll have less terrain covered but that frees up a slot for another Dunecrawler that will cover this terrain just as fast and without any movement penalties. I think the Robots should be set up on a central position with a bunch of your army around (like the TPD for rerolls), it's likely you'll face a better CC army in front of you and so you set up your defense point on the center and split-fire everything. Meanwhile you send your capturing units (like Infiltrators, Dragoons, Vanguards) to go well, capturing.

No one likes the Incendine Combustor ? Now that it's been buffed I really like it. 12" D6 hits, now at S5 AND -1 rend. Set them up in Protector protocol and no horde will survive entering your 24" bubble of prometheum and phosphor death.

A big unit is really bad. It gets locked in combat and your done. While if you have 2 units of 2 it makes your opponent need to try to lock up both.

also it doesent give you the flexablity of picking targets better. Remember you need to declare who is shooting who before rolling. If your one unit doesent kill something, you have the option of another taking it out or shooting something else.

Id never use the flamer, its trash. Guns are better for killing hordes. 18 Shots compared to d6....

It's more of 12 shots + 2D6. It has different purposes I suppose. I get it why two units are better, you could use a Spearhead Detachment to stuff all your Support with a Dominus and keep the main Detachment for everything else + some extra Dunecrawlers.

I really feel either the Robots or the Heavy Phosphor Blasters are going to get a dramatic points increase, don't sacrifice all of your money to the meta god while the 8th Edition is not even out.

 Aaranis wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Why not just playing one big single Kastelan unit of 3-6 ? Sure you'll have less terrain covered but that frees up a slot for another Dunecrawler that will cover this terrain just as fast and without any movement penalties. I think the Robots should be set up on a central position with a bunch of your army around (like the TPD for rerolls), it's likely you'll face a better CC army in front of you and so you set up your defense point on the center and split-fire everything. Meanwhile you send your capturing units (like Infiltrators, Dragoons, Vanguards) to go well, capturing.

No one likes the Incendine Combustor ? Now that it's been buffed I really like it. 12" D6 hits, now at S5 AND -1 rend. Set them up in Protector protocol and no horde will survive entering your 24" bubble of prometheum and phosphor death.

A big unit is really bad. It gets locked in combat and your done. While if you have 2 units of 2 it makes your opponent need to try to lock up both.

also it doesent give you the flexablity of picking targets better. Remember you need to declare who is shooting who before rolling. If your one unit doesent kill something, you have the option of another taking it out or shooting something else.

Id never use the flamer, its trash. Guns are better for killing hordes. 18 Shots compared to d6....

It's more of 12 shots + 2D6. It has different purposes I suppose. I get it why two units are better, you could use a Spearhead Detachment to stuff all your Support with a Dominus and keep the main Detachment for everything else + some extra Dunecrawlers.

I really feel either the Robots or the Heavy Phosphor Blasters are going to get a dramatic points increase, don't sacrifice all of your money to the meta god while the 8th Edition is not even out.

I mean, my opponent just killed them turn one with smite and other mortal wounds.. so it's not that amazing that it'd get hotfixed IMO

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

I mean, my opponent just killed them turn one with smite and other mortal wounds.. so it's not that amazing that it'd get hotfixed IMO

True, even in the small points games I'm playing lately they can die rather quickly. At least that's wounds that go to them and not to my capturing troops, because let's face it, it's not Protector Robots that are going to go capture objectives.

I'm interested in the Corpuscarii Electro-Priests, I think the models look awesome, and it sounds like they can lay down some heavy anti horde pain!

As for the losers in this roundup, meh, by the sounds of it GW will be quick to make adjustments when the feedback and tournemnt data starts coming in.

I'm a bit out of the loop in regards to all the Adeptus Mechanicus FW models out there - am I right in thinking FW will be releasing their own index books?

Going by mere speculation - were there any gaps in our current AM armies that the FW models (in theory anyway) will be able to fill? I'm thinking cheap speed bumps to melee for one

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:

Going by mere speculation - were there any gaps in our current AM armies that the FW models (in theory anyway) will be able to fill?

I'm mainly looking forward to non-hideous looking robots.

Qarp wrote:
Hi,

I have been wondering why all the focus of using only one detachment, and have the following questions:
1. Do command points from different or multiple detachments stack?
2. Adeptus Mechnicus "If you have a battle-forged army units only receive the bonus if every model in their detachment has this ability". What happens if you have two adeptus mechanicus detachments, where all models in the detachment have the canticle ability? Do you do canticle once pr detachment or once that applies to both? Also do canticles apply to the 2nd detachment?

I think it really needs to be reiterated that 8th edition is essentially penalizing a lot of armies for taking additional detachments by requiring you to pay an HQ tax. You also lose out on the bonus CP that you would get if you were to upgrade that Battalion into a Brigade like so:

Brigade Detachment

HQ - 620
1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber

Troops - 300
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard

Elites - 156
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - 1x Gamma Pistol, 1x Power Fist
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - 1x Gamma Pistol, 1x Power Fist
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - 1x Gamma Pistol, 1x Power Fist

Fast Attack - 204
1x Sydonian Dragoon - 1x Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - 1x Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - 1x Taser Lance

Heavy Support - 705
1x Onager Dunecrawler - 1x Icarus Array
1x Onager Dunecrawler - 1x Neutron Laser, 1x Cognis Heavy Stubber
2x Kastelan Robots - 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, 2x Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters
2x Kastelan Robots - 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, 2x Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters

1985 points
12 CP

Yea, but that army isn't as efficient looking as other lists with less CP. I can't imagine CP is enough to warrant is taking lots of filler.

Might want at least 1 squad of rangers to camp on ruins?
Also 3 datasmiths D: They're so bad. 52pts unit that gets killed by 2 genestealers (20 pts)

Suzuteo wrote:

Qarp wrote:
Hi,

I have been wondering why all the focus of using only one detachment, and have the following questions:
1. Do command points from different or multiple detachments stack?
2. Adeptus Mechnicus "If you have a battle-forged army units only receive the bonus if every model in their detachment has this ability". What happens if you have two adeptus mechanicus detachments, where all models in the detachment have the canticle ability? Do you do canticle once pr detachment or once that applies to both? Also do canticles apply to the 2nd detachment?

I think it really needs to be reiterated that 8th edition is essentially penalizing a lot of armies for taking additional detachments by requiring you to pay an HQ tax. You also lose out on the bonus CP that you would get if you were to upgrade that Battalion into a Brigade like so:

Brigade Detachment

HQ - 620
1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber

Troops - 300
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard
5x Skitarii Vanguard

Elites - 156
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - 1x Gamma Pistol, 1x Power Fist
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - 1x Gamma Pistol, 1x Power Fist
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - 1x Gamma Pistol, 1x Power Fist

Fast Attack - 204
1x Sydonian Dragoon - 1x Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - 1x Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - 1x Taser Lance

Heavy Support - 705
1x Onager Dunecrawler - 1x Icarus Array
1x Onager Dunecrawler - 1x Neutron Laser, 1x Cognis Heavy Stubber
2x Kastelan Robots - 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, 2x Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters
2x Kastelan Robots - 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, 2x Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters

1985 points
12 CP

Really don't feel the dragoons are any good. Very meh.

I'm still in the Vanguard are better then Rangers. The guns are not to good, so I don't get why people want them to be objective campers. Rather use Vanguards every time.

More then 1 Datasmith is horrible. They are terrible and serve only to make the bots shooty.

Because they just stand on top of ruins and shoot all the time. And the best you can hope for with vanguard is overwatch since no one will get inside the 18'' without a plan to charge.

I really want to see more tests on the snipers BTW :>

 MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:
I'm interested in the Corpuscarii Electro-Priests, I think the models look awesome, and it sounds like they can lay down some heavy anti horde pain!

As for the losers in this roundup, meh, by the sounds of it GW will be quick to make adjustments when the feedback and tournemnt data starts coming in.

I'm a bit out of the loop in regards to all the Adeptus Mechanicus FW models out there - am I right in thinking FW will be releasing their own index books?

Going by mere speculation - were there any gaps in our current AM armies that the FW models (in theory anyway) will be able to fill? I'm thinking cheap speed bumps to melee for one

The Corpuscarii are really short-ranged, it needs a bit of planning at deployment , or to use them to flank by hiding behind terrain or something, they'll die like flies when looked upon by some shooting unit. Even lasguns are terrifying to them.

They should release a cheap HQ, the Secutarii Axiarch, which is a Skitarius character. I wonder how the Secutarii Hoplites and Peltasts will be too. If we could get the Triaros Armoured Conveyor as a transport I'd be so happy.

Even if it costs 92£ :(

As for the snipers I had one game where they did absolutely nothing and another where they put a Warlord to 1 Wound and severely damaged the other characters. So far, I'll keep try them in games. They might be really nice against the likes of Necrons and Astra Militarum, to snipe the weak characters that buffs the troops around.

Got another testgame today against nids and 2 list concepts (no antibuild, looking for a viable tournament build for 1850). I really liked the Knight Crusader but thats sooo many points and I'd like to try out something else. Since we need something to scare off first turn charges in that first list Ive got a knight errant. Not too bad at shooting stuff with Thermal and pretty okay in melee (I could take the gauntlet but I want to try out the sword and of course points (yes, 5 points!)).

So this is list #1:
Cawl
TPD
3x5 Vanguard
1x5 Rangers with 2 Arquebusses (have to test them)
1x5 Infiltrators (Flachette/Taser)
3 Dakkastelans
Datasmith
Icarus Onager
Neutron Onager
Knight Errant

And list #2 without the Knight. I switched the knight for some countercharge potential that could do the same job, some more screening and potential first turn charges of my own with the Dragoons.
List #2:
Cawl
TPD
4x5 Vanguard
1x5 Ranger 2 Arquebusses
1x5 Infiltrators
1x5 Ruststalkers
3 Dakkastelans
Datasmith
Neutron Onager
Icarus Onager
2 Dragoons
2x5 Corpuscarii

Thoughts? Comments?

Just want to say I love the word "Dakkastelan" and I'm going to use it whenever I can now haha

 Aaranis wrote:
Just want to say I love the word "Dakkastelan" and I'm going to use it whenever I can now haha

That and Neutronager.

Iago40k wrote:
Got another testgame today against nids and 2 list concepts (no antibuild, looking for a viable tournament build for 1850). I really liked the Knight Crusader but thats sooo many points and I'd like to try out something else. Since we need something to scare off first turn charges in that first list Ive got a knight errant. Not too bad at shooting stuff with Thermal and pretty okay in melee (I could take the gauntlet but I want to try out the sword and of course points (yes, 5 points!)).

So this is list #1:
Cawl
TPD
3x5 Vanguard
1x5 Rangers with 2 Arquebusses (have to test them)
1x5 Infiltrators (Flachette/Taser)
3 Dakkastelans
Datasmith
Icarus Onager
Neutron Onager
Knight Errant

And list #2 without the Knight. I switched the knight for some countercharge potential that could do the same job, some more screening and potential first turn charges of my own with the Dragoons.
List #2:
Cawl
TPD
4x5 Vanguard
1x5 Ranger 2 Arquebusses
1x5 Infiltrators
1x5 Ruststalkers
3 Dakkastelans
Datasmith
Neutron Onager
Icarus Onager
2 Dragoons
2x5 Corpuscarii

Thoughts? Comments?

Besides 1850 being weird, go list 1. Second list has lots of junk in it. Id never take rust stalkers. The priests are again, very bad.If you must use them, it atleast has to be a min of 10 guys or they will be dead before they do anything. Dragoons are very underwhelming.

I know there is a huge stigma with having no more then 5 guys per ranger/vanguard, but I disagree mission depending. You want to go first, every game so your dakkabots get double shots before the enemy is hopefully in your face. More units you deploy the higher change you are stuck trying to seize.

str00dles1 wrote:


Besides 1850 being weird, go list 1. Second list has lots of junk in it. Id never take rust stalkers. The priests are again, very bad.If you must use them, it atleast has to be a min of 10 guys or they will be dead before they do anything. Dragoons are very underwhelming.

I know there is a huge stigma with having no more then 5 guys per ranger/vanguard, but I disagree mission depending. You want to go first, every game so your dakkabots get double shots before the enemy is hopefully in your face. More units you deploy the higher change you are stuck trying to seize.

Ruststalkers are great for harrassing and countercharging. Still don't know about the priests, haven't had a chance using them but on the paper you are right. They die to a stiff breeze. I like Dragoons as a second layer of bubble wrapping and used them a lot in 7th (played 6 of them) but up until now you are right, their performance wasn't that great.

With the "going" first you are right, we really want to go first. But in most matchups that will be a very close call with 12 units. So one has to think: is it better to try to get first turn for having lesser units or just accept the fact to have more think about always going second?

Iago40k wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:


Besides 1850 being weird, go list 1. Second list has lots of junk in it. Id never take rust stalkers. The priests are again, very bad.If you must use them, it atleast has to be a min of 10 guys or they will be dead before they do anything. Dragoons are very underwhelming.

I know there is a huge stigma with having no more then 5 guys per ranger/vanguard, but I disagree mission depending. You want to go first, every game so your dakkabots get double shots before the enemy is hopefully in your face. More units you deploy the higher change you are stuck trying to seize.

Ruststalkers are great for harrassing and countercharging. Still don't know about the priests, haven't had a chance using them but on the paper you are right. They die to a stiff breeze. I like Dragoons as a second layer of bubble wrapping and used them a lot in 7th (played 6 of them) but up until now you are right, their performance wasn't that great.

With the "going" first you are right, we really want to go first. But in most matchups that will be a very close call with 12 units. So one has to think: is it better to try to get first turn for having lesser units or just accept the fact to have more think about always going second?

Feel the bubblewrap/harassing is where the vanguard/ rangers come in. Give them a try, but another unit of infiltrators would be a better use if you want to harass. Also having two units to deep strike can off set the spamming of 5 man units and helps going first. Still my vote is for list 1.


To the OP of the reference section of page 1, I think its worth pointing out that it is unknown as of yet if you pick canticles all game or pick just rolling or mix. Should be stated as such, and not that it is how you play it, don't want to tell the new players this is how it is until we know.

It reads a lot like physic powers, where you can roll OR pick, not do a mix.

I strongly feel in my experience it is the same here. You do not get to pick then try to roll for it next turn. Again, there is only every a "bad" canticle roll if you roll a 1, then you cant get your shroudpsalm. any other roll lets you modify it by +2 or -2.

str00dles1 wrote:
Again, there is only every a "bad" canticle roll if you roll a 1, then you cant get your shroudpsalm. any other roll lets you modify it by +2 or -2.

Why/How +2 -2? There is Cawl for +1 -1 but 2?

The difference is Psychic powers are assigned at the beginning of the game, and they do not change throughout the game. Canticles are picked at the beginning of each battle round. So the relevant text comes into play every time it comes up in the process. At the beginning of each battle round you may either pick a canticles, with not being able to pick any canticle that has been used earlier in the game OR you may roll.

+1/-1 from the roll, you can't take two Cawl's

Iago40k wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Again, there is only every a "bad" canticle roll if you roll a 1, then you cant get your shroudpsalm. any other roll lets you modify it by +2 or -2.

Why/How +2 -2? There is Cawl for +1 -1 but 2?

From Tech Priest Dom, which you will always have 1 of these for now atleast. Archmagos – While Cawl is on the battlefield, you can +1 or -1 when rolling on the Canticles table.

Pedroig wrote:The difference is Psychic powers are assigned at the beginning of the game, and they do not change throughout the game. Canticles are picked at the beginning of each battle round. So the relevant text comes into play every time it comes up in the process. At the beginning of each battle round you may either pick a canticles, with not being able to pick any canticle that has been used earlier in the game OR you may roll.

+1/-1 from the roll, you can't take two Cawl's

Right, you pick or roll at start of game, but its pretty much the same. That was the intention I feel they were doing. I don't see the reason to cheese it because of bad wording.

str00dles1 wrote:


From Tech Priest Dom, which you will always have 1 of these for now atleast. Archmagos – While Cawl is on the battlefield, you can +1 or -1 when rolling on the Canticles table.

I don't..what? Cawls got Archmagos for +1/-1 but TPD does not have such an ability.

Iago40k wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:


From Tech Priest Dom, which you will always have 1 of these for now atleast. Archmagos – While Cawl is on the battlefield, you can +1 or -1 when rolling on the Canticles table.

I don't..what? Cawls got Archmagos for +1/-1 but TPD does not have such an ability.

My Mistake. Ive bene using rvd1ofakind's points sheets, and under TPD it has Archmago ability also. Guess he copy/pasted and didn't take it out.

Had a practice game this weekend

Fulgurite electro priests do work as a counter assault unit, wipe out a unit and they just mob around the table with their 3++ and their 5+ FNP equivalent.

Since cover is a +1 to save now, then what do people think about taking omnispex on their 5 man vanguard units? I think it would at least help out a bit, the data tether seems pretty crappy to begin with when you can just MSU them to avoid the same problem it tries to bandaid.