Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/15 16:43:51
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Moustache-twirling Princeps
|
gally912 wrote:My list is very close to yours em-en-oh-pee.
Trying to work a Crusader in cause I just got one, and I dont know if I have the stomach to buy another box of Kastelens
Any thoughts on Powersword Infiltrators? Especially now we can mix and match?
Not sure there is much a reason to mix and match, really. They aren't benefiting from the swords really.
And I have a list with a Crusader, but I think I mentioned I can't use it in my league games so I am worrying about it later. I mostly trim to one Robot squad and Datasmith, drop an Onager or two and cut the Infiltrators I think. Its slim, which worries me. It is so hard to easily fit in a Knight now!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/15 22:42:05
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Mandragola wrote:I’m a bit baffled by the degree people prefer vanguard over rangers. 30” range, occasional ap-1 and better strength mean that rangers do better damage to MEQs at all ranges, except 15-18”. Reducing the enemy’s toughness by 1 in melee doesn’t really do very much, when admech have so few units able to take advantage of it.
I think that both of the 6 to wound abilities are probably going to be negligible in effect, though the vanguard one does at least help if you’re shooting at tough models. The ranger one works on 1 shot in 36 (when you roll a 6 to wound and they roll the number for their save that would have saved them but now doesn’t). The vanguard one is harder to calculate, since it has no effect on 1-wound models, who are kind of the primary target of vanguard.
I don’t hate vanguard, I just think the two units are probably roughly equivalent. I think you probably give plasma to vanguard, Transuranic to rangers and arc rifles to whichever you like.
I realise that long-range fire from rangers doesn’t do huge amounts – but it does something. Games are often won and lost because of a model here or there on an objective, and being able to snipe a few away will be useful.
I’ve skipped the argument on destroyers. I will say that I think it looks like plasma ones do very respectable damage, to just about anything. Each one is, in effect, armed with a battlecannon, plus a phosphor blaster. With a TPD nearby they shouldn’t blow up too much.
Speaking of the TPD, I think any of his weapons could work. The ray gun is probably coolest. I think the serpeta is the least fun. You get to fire it with your other weapon, but it doesn’t do a lot. I’d rather have the pistol for if I get caught in combat, and to save a couple of points.
I was lucky enough to win a starter set and a box of skitarii rangers/vanguard as prizes in a couple of tournaments. I’m thinking of running them with my 3 existing knights in a list like this:
Superheavy detachment
Warden with reaper, stubber, flamer. 466
Paladin with reaper, 2 stubbers. 458
Errant with fist, stubber. 436
Patrol detachment
TPD with neutron and stubber. 141
5 rangers with 2 arc rifles 58
5 rangers with 2 transuronics 100
3 destroyers with plasma and blasters 210
Icarus dunecrawler 130
I don’t own the destroyers yet. I’ve just done some adding up and spotted that two Phosphor robots with a datasmith would cost only a bit more, but are probably quite a lot better. Any suggestions on where I could save the 40 points – or should I instead just field all 20 of the Skitarii I own?
Ironically my army is actually from Mars. My knights are house Taranis – painted up to go with my pre-heresy imperial fists (who pay a visit to mars in the early days of the heresy).
The Errant has a fist just because it looks good that way, by the way. I think the reaper is almost always better, but then it can always kick things. It would probably be better if all my knights were crusaders, but then I wouldn’t be able to take any fun stuff.
So I guess the question is: should I buy robots, destroyers, or nothing and just run my infantry? In the longer term I think I’ll pick up Cawl and maybe another starter set to expand the army further, so I expect both will come in useful. I still have the sprue from the warden with the carapace weapons for the knights, so I could stick a couple of those on to make up points. My other knights are too old to have come with the sprue, sadly.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I only take Rangers (now in 8th) when I give them sniper rifles and camp on objectives. Vanguards for me have been a "I can't ever see a reasons to take rangers over them" for two main reasons; first 30 shots at 18" and 30 more shots on overwatch. It just drowns your enemies in sheer volley fire. It doesn't matter what their units are, be it an ork boy or a terminator they are going to winch when they see you pick up that many die. The second is actually the minues one toughness. The fact that I can wound ork boyz or marines on a 4+ in melee is huge*. Especially if you take sergeants with melee kits. As others have stated, see sargent with power mace or taser goad with either pistol, suddenly does much more work than one would expect, rangers aren't bad, and work well in the case you metioned (sit far away on an objective and take advantage of their 30" range). They can also molest marines and other 24" range units to force them out of cover or take odd casualites for being defensive. But due to my local meta heavily favoring, 1/2 turn charges, they play Tyranids, Orkz, Chaos, the volley fire for me has been much more useful. This may change as our groups meta changes.
*Remember, combo this with +1 Strength Canticle and suddenly you're wounding stuff on a 2+. My disco tech priests become even more scary when they are attack with their now S6, AP-1 Mortal wound on 6s on marines who are thoughness 3 when tied up in melee. Vanguard just like in 7th seem to be a huge synergy unit.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/15 22:44:59
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/15 23:32:43
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Ship's Officer
London
|
Thanks Tsol, that's a good set of logic. Interesting point about melee. Shame they can't all have pistols!
So maybe I should just keep the 20 guys I've got and make them into 5-man units. I'm a bit nervous about their staying power, or lack thereof, but you do get a lot of cool guns for your points.
I think I'll go with the Kastellan robots rather than the destroyers for now.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 02:38:57
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
Some guys in my local gaming store(where we play) are reluctant to accept the house/tournament rule for first turn (the dude who deploys everything first gets a +1 on a roll-off).
I REALLY want to just bring cawl, a squad of 6 kastelans and vanilla vanguard to screen. If anyone has a problem with that, I'll say I want to go first and this is the way to stuff the most points into 1 unit. I thought you guys liked that rule :^)
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 02:41:07
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
So after looking more and how the local meta is, I'm thinking of replacing TPD with Greyfax. Still Battleforged since its all "Imperum" so it keeps the Command Points. Nids really crush Admech with all the psychers and her getting to dominate a enemy unit can be useful. Best is to stick her around Cawl and guard the robots for a bit. Plus only 85 points is really good.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 02:52:03
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Pewling Menial
KY, US
|
str00dles1 wrote:So after looking more and how the local meta is, I'm thinking of replacing TPD with Greyfax. Still Battleforged since its all "Imperum" so it keeps the Command Points. Nids really crush Admech with all the psychers and her getting to dominate a enemy unit can be useful. Best is to stick her around Cawl and guard the robots for a bit. Plus only 85 points is really good.
Worth the trade for Canticles, you think?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 03:56:48
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
gally912 wrote:str00dles1 wrote:So after looking more and how the local meta is, I'm thinking of replacing TPD with Greyfax. Still Battleforged since its all "Imperum" so it keeps the Command Points. Nids really crush Admech with all the psychers and her getting to dominate a enemy unit can be useful. Best is to stick her around Cawl and guard the robots for a bit. Plus only 85 points is really good.
Worth the trade for Canticles, you think?
Might as well just get another detachments with her
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 04:34:47
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Yea, that's true. Can take her as a single hero and loose 1 CP.
Canticles as is are pretty meh. Cover is good at the start, then its pretty meh
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 04:53:08
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
+1 save when going second is worth more than 1 command point.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 05:12:50
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
|
Aaranis wrote:
Well if it's the real mathammer that's pretty sad. I killed two Primaris Marines on the charge when I used mine in a game against the starter box Primaris, and when the Captain killed him he exploded, finishing off the Captain. That's the best use I've had of my Dragoon so far, go die in a melee to dish out a bunch of mortal wounds. I'll try it with the Radium Jezzail someday.
Dragoons are probably one of the better units to take care of Primaris due to the 2 Damage on Taser Lance. (Kastelans or something with AP like Caliver Vanguard is typically better, but Primaris is in a frustratingly good position to attract overkill with its high-armor, 2 Wound body.)
Dragoon vs. Primaris
(3)(.67) = 2 hits
(2)(.75) + (2)(3)(.25) = 3 hits after explodes
(3)(.83) = 2.5 wounds
(2.5)(.33) = 0.83 unsaved wounds
Assuming normal distribution and the standard deviation of a single dice roll, you will kill a Primaris 46.04% of the time.
gally912 wrote:I appreciate their mobility, but boy do they sure not kill anything well outside of low armor, multiwound models. Which I'm not seeing a lot of. Even the most paper vehicles have a 4+ save.
Yes, Dragoons are an average unit. They are pretty bad against anything with 1 Wound and decent Armor save. But I think we sell them short on light vehicles, and we're being reductionist by just looking at these units in isolation without considering what they do for other units.
Dragoon vs. Trukk
(3)(.67) = 2 hits
(2)(.75) + (2)(3)(.25) = 3 hits after explodes
(3)(.67) = 2 wounds
(2)(.5) = 1 unsaved wounds
(1)(2) = 2 damage
Kastelan (no Protector Protocol) vs. Trukk
(18)(.67) = 12 hits
(12)(.5) = 6 wounds
(6)(.5) = 3 unsaved wounds
Dragoon is more efficient per point:
34 points per wound
36.67 points per wound
Has a cheaper instant kill:
5*68 = 340
4*110 = 440
And a cheaper minimum point investment.
But you know whats better than all Kastelans and all Dragoons? Kastelans with Dragoons. Because the latter will let the former safely set up for Protector Protocols without a Trukk jumping out of LOS cover to dump a barrel of Boyz on it. (Infiltrators also work. Vanguard to a lesser extent.)
|
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 05:31:05
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 05:53:21
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Pewling Menial
KY, US
|
Not to dig your math, but Heavy Phosphor Blasters have -2 AP
So that would be 5 unsaved wounds, or half the trukk. They can also be buffed reliably. Two Kastelens in protector will eliminate a Trukk, even more efficient if nearby a reroll source. The Taze Dragoon doesnt benefit from TPD or Cawl
The thing is, I'm ok with Kastelens being so-so against (heavy) vehicles, its their only real downside. Thats why we have the Onager w/ Neutron, and Ironstriders with Lascannons. Kastelens are simply *excellent* against everything else.
Dragoons struggle to do any damage, to anything. Cracking light transports with ease, putting some hullpoints on other things, and instagibbing T4 (while locking them in melee with an AV11 walker) was the Dragoon's bread and butter last edition.
They really cant do any of that. I like the model, I just want it to do more than be a $50, 65pt harassment unit. I get way more bang for buck with infilitrators for movement, and vanguard are there to intercept.
Heck, now I'm wondering how the compare vs Breachers... :/
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 05:59:50
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 06:21:27
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
gally912 wrote:Not to dig your math, but Heavy Phosphor Blasters have -2 AP
So that would be 5 unsaved wounds, or half the trukk. They can also be buffed reliably. Two Kastelens in protector will eliminate a Trukk, even more efficient if nearby a reroll source. The Taze Dragoon doesnt benefit from TPD or Cawl
The thing is, I'm ok with Kastelens being so-so against (heavy) vehicles, its their only real downside. Thats why we have the Onager w/ Neutron, and Ironstriders with Lascannons. Kastelens are simply *excellent* against everything else.
Dragoons struggle to do any damage, to anything. Cracking light transports with ease, putting some hullpoints on other things, and instagibbing T4 (while locking them in melee with an AV11 walker) was the Dragoon's bread and butter last edition.
They really cant do any of that. I like the model, I just want it to do more than be a $50, 65pt harassment unit. I get way more bang for buck with infilitrators for movement, and vanguard are there to intercept.
Heck, now I'm wondering how the compare vs Breachers... :/
Yeah, I've also noticed that Dragoons are just complete garbage. But everyone kept praising them for some reason :/
I remodeled mine to balistarii
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 07:42:14
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
|
gally912 wrote:Not to dig your math, but Heavy Phosphor Blasters have -2 AP 
Ah, good catch. I was actually expecting Kastelans to win against Trukks, and I was surprised by the result.
rvd1ofakind wrote:Yeah, I've also noticed that Dragoons are just complete garbage. But everyone kept praising them for some reason :/
I remodeled mine to balistarii 
Complete garbage seems a bit harsh. They are average due to the 0 AP, but they're notable along with Infiltrators in being the only units that are mobile and won't implode the instant they enter CC. (I really wish Dragoons got a more reliable pistol option. Right now, in terms of melee, Dragoons and Infiltrators are roughly on par, but those 25 flechette rounds put them over, especially against GEQ.)
Ballistarii are good too. Still trying to wrap my head around the paradoxical notion of a mobile artillery platform though.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 08:53:22
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
So some more input for you guys. I've played five games as Admech this week thus far. All of my lists were experimental and concerned variety over competitiveness (my opponents did the same) as we are all still on the learning curve of 8th. I fought Thousands suns 3 times and Orks/tyranids once.
HQs Cawl, TPD
Troops: 10 man Vanguard 3 plasma+omixpex, 10 Vanguard 3 arc rifles+omispex, 5 rangers, 2 snipers
Troops (heavy): 3 destroyers with heavy plasma and phospher, 3 destroyers, heavy grav and phospher, 3 breachers, arch claws and torsion cannons
Heavy: 2 Onegars with Iccaris array, Rock em sock em robots (range) with datasmith
Elites: 10 elctro disco priests, 10 jazz hands electro priests, 5 iniftrators (tasergoads) and 5 ruststalkers razors/chordclaws
This was my core for each game (add a few or subtract a few based on whim and point value change).
Thoughts and experinces. FYI, this is just how my forces performed.
Overall, Admech is a fantastic shooty army and surprisingly durable (overall). Obviously, they are slow and any objective style game will probably lose, almost guarteed, unless you spam ruststalkers or infiltrators. I'm assuming the codex will address this, because I am not exaggerating when I say, it's an autolose if you play objective games (where you'll have to goto your enemy). Stay in cover and abuse canticles, they are not as good as 7th, but they are far more important. Cawl is a MUST, don't bother playing Admech without him. Aruguably the worst part about Admech is Cawl, as any army that requires a specific hero unit to work is nonfunctional, and shows the GW team really dropped the ball hard here. I don't think the army is even competitive without Cawl. I say this because in all 5 games, his synergy buff of rerolls to hit was what carried the army every game. As soon as Cawl was killed (not hard to do in this edition FYI) or pushed away, all my guns simply didn't cut it, nor were they worth their costs. Even the rock em sock em robots with 18 shots don't do well without Cawl. In summary, fun army, but only one playstyle: Cawl, destroyers/Robots range build. No other way to play sadly, or so it seems (still new and too early to call any "This is how it is!")
Good news, Vangard and Rangers both performed well in all games. Dish out damage and can threaten anything. Bad news: they are weaker than glass. Even in cover and with their 6++, it doesn't mean jack. They need some sort of buff or point reduction or an extra save like before. A 6+ feel no pain would give them something much beter than their paultry 6++.
Vanguard are my best all around units, they tied up enemeies for about 1-2 rounds and can throw out so much dakka. More importantly, they hold gaunts or boyz long enough for my electropriests to countercharge.
Rangers, with snipers are amazing. They quickly became the biggest psychological threat on the battlefeild with their powerful sniper rifles. To the point that my opponents were firing all of their Laz cannons at the squad in hopes to remove them. Also Rangers overwatch with 2 shots each, I forgot that they have 30" range cut in have means all charges are double tapping. More useful than one might think.
Combat servitors: Overall, second best unit outside the Robots. The heavy grav cannon/phospher and heavy plasma cannon/phospher threw out lots of very powerful shots. Combined with Cawl's re-rolls (THIS IS A MUST OR DONT TAKE THEM, not a TPD but CAWL, BS4 is not good enough to justify their costs) and the other TPD repairing the squads each turn, made them soak most small arms fire with ease and just recovered next round from repairs. They delted terminator squads and ork boyz with equal effecitancy. I agree, that they are still too expensive considering by themsevles, they might be utter crap, but when babysat by Cawl, TDP or even just a techpreists (who can also repair them and is cheaper than the other two), these things in cover can be hard to kill and project a very large threat bubble. Weakness, too freakin expensive. I could have bought an Imperial knight fully kitted out with every bell and whistle and still would have been cheaper than these three squads, and possibly more useful.
Weakness: Super expensive. Also super fragile towards heavy hitters. Plasma and greater will melt these bastards. As soon as my opponents dealth with my Ranger snipers they'd turn their heavy weapons to these guys. Great at absorbing small arms fire, horrible at big guns. T5 and 3W with only a 3/4+ save won't suffice. I lost one to each lazcannon shot, even in cover/canticles.
Breachers were the worst unit I had each game. The Torsion cannons, never performed. I did do 3 dmg to a landraider with it. Nothing else was ever hit or killed by them in all 5 games. This did have bad luck involved, will keep using them but they are looking to be the worst unit in the codex in my mind thus far.
Onegars and Rock em sockem robots are the freakin bees knees. I cannot sing their praises enough, my opponets describe them as overpowered. I call them cool. FYI my opponets stopped firing (range shots) at both of these units due to their invulerable saves. Onegars, I actually recommend 3 of, due to if you lose one you lose the reroll of 1++save. It does makes the difference and its not a tax, because they are awesome. Note, Cognis Stubbors are overpriced. Don't take them. They didn't do anything in any of my games. If they come down to 5 pts per, I think they will be worth it but at 8pts per, just take more of other units.
Rock em Sock em robots, pretty much the same summary as the breachers/destroyers, ignores small arms, but relatively weak to heavy shots, but these guys I feel are appropriately costed and cheaper would be too good, anymore and they wouldn't be worth it. I lost a robot each game to a Lazcannon shot. Ageis mode is awesome. Not just for the 2+/4++ but the mortal wounds on 5/6++. KEEP THAT ABILITY IN MIND for my conclusion section.
Datasmith did his job, repaired and changed protocols, I won't say mandatory, but I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't want to take him, and he is not too expensive either.
Infiltrators: currently a must due to them being able to deep strike equivalnt. However, they never once did anything in any of my games. As they always died before they could charge. Their stubcarbine is surprisingly effective. Killed many orks, Gaunts and even some Rubric marines with their S4 and large volley fire. This is primarily bad luck. I even took 2 squads of 10 in one match. Failed every charge. And then were quickly blown off the table. I think they need either a speed buff or maybe a 5++ like in 7th. As the 2 wounds 4+6++ is not enough. Again, like the Vanguards/rangers/Breachers/Destroyers, I think a 6+ feel no pain, would do them all a great service.
Ruststalkers: Great! Cheap unit at 100pts, quick and excellent counter-chargers. I place these guys out of LOS and just behind my Vanguards or Breachers/Destroyers. Anything that gets too close, they either run out to become a human/robot shield or their countercharge causes much grief to my opponets. In particular, Chordclaws are awesome. These guys melted a 5 man terminator squad and Rubric marines. Super squishy, don't expect them to survive a countercharge. They are a hit once and whipe unit. If they don't wipe the enemy, and your opponents does not think the original unit he charged is still worth attack and pick these ruststalkers instead, don't expect any to survive. Also ALWAYS keep them out of LOS. They die to a stiff breeze. Again, would really benfit fomr a 5/6+ Feel not pain. Or at least a 5++!
Electropreists: laughbly bad in 7th, arugably most improved in 8th. Although more expensive than 7th, for 140/160 pts for Disco Sticks and Jazz hands, they are worth every point. Causing mortal wounds by just charging (roll a D6 for every enemey model in the charged unit,every 6 is a mortal wound), quickly made both my buddies hate them almost as much as my Destroyers and Robots. Discosticks if they get the charge off, just desytroy whatever they hit. S5 AP-2 DD3 6 D3mortal wounds, is nuts. After the first two games, both my opponets prioritized these guys, even over my snipers. Keep them out of LOS cause although a 5++/5+++ is not terrible, its not good either. Truest defintion of a glass cannon.
Jazzhands: I thought these guys were going to be crap quite frankly. Now they might be my favorite assualt unit in the army. 3 shots each at S5 and explode on 6s is SO MUCH BETTER in game than on paper. IF these guys are near Cawl... omg... It might even be worth it to take a TPD along with these mooks for his rerolls of 1. After all my games, I know this. I am buying 10 more Jazzhands (alrady have 10) and one more box of Rock em sockem robots. There was a round that I rolled 39 hits from my 10 man squad and was wounding on 3s (rubric marines), I killed the whole squad outright. Just like the discosticks though, these guys are super soft and my opponets after seeing their better than Vanguard like shot output, immediatly began focus firing on them. They aren't too survivable... Just a heads up.
Right now the army feels incomplete. I also play Deamons/Chaos, Space marines and Tyranids (thus far in 8th but not the others) and all of those factions feel fleshed out. Admech feels like its missing some core pieces, their complete lack of transports and fragile but high cost infantry is confusing at best, but servicable. The combat servitors, Robots and Cawl are sadly seem to be the center of the army and everything else might be to serve that force. At least its kinda fulffy, if nothing else. Right now, I'm building a new 2k list and going to inculde some striders drop some of the combat servitors and replace them with more vanguards/rangers to see how those will perform in greater numbers. Lastly, I think Admech might require fortifications to be proper. In particular a Bastion and/or a Void Shield generator. Bastion (or bunker) will allows 6 desyroyers of Grav or Plasma to fire with impunity for the first two turns of the game, at the loss of increased accuracy due to no longer reciving Cawl or TPD buffs. Canticles should still help though with rolls of 1.
The second and most obvious one is the Shield generator, which effectively is the answer to all my criticisms. Put Vanguard/rangers/breachers/desyroyers with a 4++ negates most of my thoughts on their biggest weaknesses.
Overall, first week impressions is they might be too expensive pointweise overall. I'd like to see slight buffs or slight point reductions in Vanguards and rangers maybe like 8/9pts per model or give them a 6+++ feel no paint. Breachers/Destyroyers, are powerful but they need either a 5++ or a 5+++ feel no pain to help mitagate Krak/plasma/Lazcannon fire as currently its too easy to kill these super epxensive units. That or drop their points. I think Desyroyers would be well costed at about 190/200pts and Breachers are stupidly overpriced, with their thiny amount of shots and short range. I'd say drop these guys to 150 for Trosion cannon and powerclaws and I'd think they'd be worth it.
Sicarians in general, might need some cost reducton, not too much. 100-140 pts is quite reasonable, but maybe increase their points to about 120-160 but give them all a 5++ and/or a 5/6+++ feel no pain and bam. I think they'd be very viable.
*note there is potential for abuse here. Rock em sock em robots Ageis rules specifically states add plus 1 to regualr and invulnerable saves. If they have are within the shield generator, they will have a 3++ save with Ageis and reflect on 5/6++. No one, I mean no one, will bother to shoot them.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 09:05:29
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 12:40:24
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Tsol wrote:So some more input for you guys. I've played five games as Admech this week thus far. All of my lists were experimental and concerned variety over competitiveness (my opponents did the same) as we are all still on the learning curve of 8th. I fought Thousands suns 3 times and Orks/tyranids once....
Cool stuff, Just one little thing, The Discostick/Jazzhands charge rule is one d6 per model in the Charging unit, so one per suviving priest, not per enemy.
Otherwise, good to know that the kataphrons can dish out some hurt, Sadly I don't have cawl yet, but 2x Dominus should tide me over until I can get the big guy.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 13:11:06
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Moustache-twirling Princeps
|
My FLGS is starting an 8th Ed Escalation League the end of the month and it looks like Week 1 is going to be a 500pt Patrol Detachment, which really hurts as it makes me take a Troop slot. That means generally I have about 300pt to actually mess around with if I want any reasonable toys.
Here is what I am considering:
HQ:
Tech-Priest Dominus
Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber
[135]
Elites:
Cybernetica Datasmith
Gamma, Power Fist
[52]
Troops:
(6) Vanguard
2x Plasma Calivers, Arc Maul
[73]
Heavy:
(2) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[220]
[500]
Thoughts? Ideas?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 15:28:01
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Do you want any friends after this is over? Those two robots are going to be a lawn-more at 500 points.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 15:50:36
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Moustache-twirling Princeps
|
Gitsplitta wrote:Do you want any friends after this is over? Those two robots are going to be a lawn-more at 500 points.
Disclaimer: My shop is in Central NC and is one of the most competitive areas ever.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 15:52:43
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
...Which store do you go to? I'm also in Central NC.
|
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 16:02:33
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
|
So with the expedited release of the Xenos and Militarium FW books, I'm hopefully Cyraxis will be not far behind as the only FW models without 8th rules will basically be Mechanicum/Ad Mech
|
3000
4000 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 17:01:10
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Moustache-twirling Princeps
|
Hit Point Hobbies. Western edge of Central NC area. I am in the NC 40k Gamers FB group!  You can probably attest to how competitive this area is.
Wren, man... I hope so. I truly do. Any excuse to get those GORGEOUS models on the table too. The Triaros, Thanatar, Thallax, and Vultarax would be welcome additions, for sure.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 17:09:05
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
|
Well considering it was delayed because of 8th, it has to be done soon
I mean the tau models that were suposed to be in Cyraxis are going to be in the Xenos book with 8th, thats half the work right there
|
3000
4000 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 17:27:46
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Hit Point Hobbies. Western edge of Central NC area. I am in the NC 40k Gamers FB group!  You can probably attest to how competitive this area is.
Wren, man... I hope so. I truly do. Any excuse to get those GORGEOUS models on the table too. The Triaros, Thanatar, Thallax, and Vultarax would be welcome additions, for sure.
Ah, excellent, I'll say hello at some point. That's about an hour 45 from where I live.
No, I really can't attest. The only store I'm near is GW Pinecrest, so I usually go there, or to the Armory (I've been there like twice, once to play Peregrine, once to restock my spray primer). GW Pinecrest is usually extremely casual, but two or three people ramp it up to tournament level at times. I don't really play enough 40k to fully examine it.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/16 17:40:23
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 17:50:47
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
|
Speaking of hordes and canticles... remember that Litany of the Electromancer exists.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 18:30:16
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Moustache-twirling Princeps
|
Verviedi wrote: em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Hit Point Hobbies. Western edge of Central NC area. I am in the NC 40k Gamers FB group!  You can probably attest to how competitive this area is.
Wren, man... I hope so. I truly do. Any excuse to get those GORGEOUS models on the table too. The Triaros, Thanatar, Thallax, and Vultarax would be welcome additions, for sure.
Ah, excellent, I'll say hello at some point. That's about an hour 45 from where I live.
No, I really can't attest. The only store I'm near is GW Pinecrest, so I usually go there, or to the Armory (I've been there like twice, once to play Peregrine, once to restock my spray primer). GW Pinecrest is usually extremely casual, but two or three people ramp it up to tournament level at times. I don't really play enough 40k to fully examine it.
Well, in the Fayetteville area, it can get pretty serious.  We host a load of large tourneys locally, so you should definitely swing by! Next one is the 1776 Tourney in July.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/16 21:14:49
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
Tsol wrote:So some more input for you guys. I've played five games as Admech this week thus far. All of my lists were experimental and concerned variety over competitiveness (my opponents did the same) as we are all still on the learning curve of 8th. I fought Thousands suns 3 times and Orks/tyranids once....
Thanks for taking the time to write all this, really good to read and provides us a fresh view from what we usually see in this thread (AKA Dakkastelan spam). I'm glad the Electro-Priests might have a use beyond collecting dust in 8th, if we do get a transport they'll be a must take I feel. And to say I sold the 5 Priests I got in my Eradication Cohort box... their models are expensive to buy :/ (as with all Mechanicus sadly). Have you ever tried the Robots equipped with fists, AKA Fistellans ? I tried a game with them but my opponent's list was too specific for it to be successful. I think they have a great potential. I wonder if having two squads of Robots in Aegis Protocols to move up the field with the rest of the army might be nice or not, one squad in full shooting and the other with Cremators/Fists.
It feels like if we want to have a viable army WITHOUT Cawl we need some allies from the Imperium. I'll go with two squads of Vigilator Sisters of Silence and the Scions from their Start Collecting box, that'll add me a fast transport and/or deep strike capabilities, as well as powerful shooting.
|
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/17 03:29:13
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
Aaranis wrote: Tsol wrote:So some more input for you guys. I've played five games as Admech this week thus far. All of my lists were experimental and concerned variety over competitiveness (my opponents did the same) as we are all still on the learning curve of 8th. I fought Thousands suns 3 times and Orks/tyranids once....
Thanks for taking the time to write all this, really good to read and provides us a fresh view from what we usually see in this thread (AKA Dakkastelan spam). I'm glad the Electro-Priests might have a use beyond collecting dust in 8th, if we do get a transport they'll be a must take I feel. And to say I sold the 5 Priests I got in my Eradication Cohort box... their models are expensive to buy :/ (as with all Mechanicus sadly). Have you ever tried the Robots equipped with fists, AKA Fistellans ? I tried a game with them but my opponent's list was too specific for it to be successful. I think they have a great potential. I wonder if having two squads of Robots in Aegis Protocols to move up the field with the rest of the army might be nice or not, one squad in full shooting and the other with Cremators/Fists.
It feels like if we want to have a viable army WITHOUT Cawl we need some allies from the Imperium. I'll go with two squads of Vigilator Sisters of Silence and the Scions from their Start Collecting box, that'll add me a fast transport and/or deep strike capabilities, as well as powerful shooting.
Complete hear say but the Sisters have been nerfed to the ground
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/17 04:38:38
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
|
Well Dark Mechanicum FW rules just became better than Normal Ad Mech. They can repair all chaos vehicles and knights.
|
3000
4000 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/17 05:43:59
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
WrentheFaceless wrote:Well Dark Mechanicum FW rules just became better than Normal Ad Mech. They can repair all chaos vehicles and knights.
source?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/06/17 06:48:09
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
|
 |
Mysterious Techpriest
|
Oh I know that, but they're still usable I believe. They can be a screen against Smite, as you have to target the closest enemy unit, and they can't be targeted, then the psyker won't be able to Smite. Two units are still a malus of -2 to all attempts at using a psychic power. They have a 7" movement and their swords are +1S -3 Rend and 1d3 Damage, at two attacks each (three for the Sister Superior). I'll try them out once I'll have them painted and I'll have bought my Tempestus box. Could be used to escort my Fistellans.
|
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts |
|
 |
 |
|