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 Aaranis wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
So some more input for you guys. I've played five games as Admech this week thus far. All of my lists were experimental and concerned variety over competitiveness (my opponents did the same) as we are all still on the learning curve of 8th. I fought Thousands suns 3 times and Orks/tyranids once....

Thanks for taking the time to write all this, really good to read and provides us a fresh view from what we usually see in this thread (AKA Dakkastelan spam). I'm glad the Electro-Priests might have a use beyond collecting dust in 8th, if we do get a transport they'll be a must take I feel. And to say I sold the 5 Priests I got in my Eradication Cohort box... their models are expensive to buy :/ (as with all Mechanicus sadly). Have you ever tried the Robots equipped with fists, AKA Fistellans ? I tried a game with them but my opponent's list was too specific for it to be successful. I think they have a great potential. I wonder if having two squads of Robots in Aegis Protocols to move up the field with the rest of the army might be nice or not, one squad in full shooting and the other with Cremators/Fists.

It feels like if we want to have a viable army WITHOUT Cawl we need some allies from the Imperium. I'll go with two squads of Vigilator Sisters of Silence and the Scions from their Start Collecting box, that'll add me a fast transport and/or deep strike capabilities, as well as powerful shooting.

No problem. The last two weeks, I've been reading and watching as many battle reports online as possible until I finally got my buddies to start building lists so we can test things out. And I love Admech models but to be honest, I played about 10 games of Tyrands before I touched any other army, simply because they are my faves, and its about damn time they didn't suck. But I felt that there wasn't enough info or enough practical info up on any sites, so I shared what I've seen thus far. I almost bought that box! In hindsight I wish I had, but just a heads up. Ebay has electro priests for about 32-36 USD free shipping. If you like I can even point you towards some bits sellers who will sell you the heads/bodies of them as well for about $15. I got all 20 of mine buy buying two boxes of them and then bought bits heads/bodies for a 1/3 of the price and used up all my spare bits, literally my sprues are empty, as the box gives you enough to make both types if you get extra heads/bodies.

I was very tempted to take fisty robots, as with canticles they can the rerolls of 1 to hit or +1 strength for that extra spice, but I never did. Mostly due to the fact, I played armies that were always going to be better than me at melee (orks/tyranids) or armies which I didn't need that kind of melee power (thousand suns). However, I can tell you from my experience with carnifexes, (i run at least 3 per list) which have a very similar statline. Are sadly not really good. Not bad mind you, but not good. Hitting on 4+ with only 3-6 attacks is not reliable. Carnifexes has old one eye, who gives them 3+ to hit and scything talons grant rerolls of 1, which make them very, very mean. But without those buffs, my first couple games all they did was miss or kill one random mook. I fear the rock em sockem robots, will not be worth their points for the melee kit, due to both the fists being very expensive and their only average 4+ to hit. Maybe with the double melee and some luck you can do real work with them, but I'm skeptical. I now ONLY take Carnifexes with old one eye, no reason not too as he is such a powerful force multiplier he makes them worth all their points. The robots without some sort of buff to compensate for their poor to hit rolls, to me won't be worth it (unless targeting buildings or maybe vehicles/monstrous creatures, where just 4 hits should be enough to kill the unit). In short, the fists like all fists I've seen be it on termies or dreadnaughts, should be applies to small units of powerful stuff or buildings/vehicles. Stock, don't expect much as 2 hits will be your average per robot and that may not be enought to do the job for tanks or mosterious creatures but should do the job for heros. With buffs, such as rerolls of melee 1s and double attacks, I think they could prove very deadly to just about anything other than swarms. Again, this is me extrapolating my carnifex experience, not playtime of robots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azegoroth wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
So some more input for you guys. I've played five games as Admech this week thus far. All of my lists were experimental and concerned variety over competitiveness (my opponents did the same) as we are all still on the learning curve of 8th. I fought Thousands suns 3 times and Orks/tyranids once....

Cool stuff, Just one little thing, The Discostick/Jazzhands charge rule is one d6 per model in the Charging unit, so one per suviving priest, not per enemy.
Otherwise, good to know that the kataphrons can dish out some hurt, Sadly I don't have cawl yet, but 2x Dominus should tide me over until I can get the big guy.

Thanks for the correction! I'll tell my mates, they'll be glad to hear I was doing it wrong. Cawl is worth it, not just as an army HQ (which sadly, I can't recommend playing Admech without him, at least until we get a codex to add our fluffy rules back which may help mitigate 8th overall lack of depth) but also as a freaking cool model. I spent about 15 hours painting him and I still never get tired of looking at his awesome design and style, not to mention it will grab lots of attention whereever it goes. The TPDs I have no idea if they are good or not, not once in any of my five games, did they do anything other than repair my Kataphrons or Cawl and grant their passive rerolls of 1 for shooting. My opponents never shot at them, never charged them and never got close enough for me to shoot with em. I feel like they might be too expensive though. At about 135pts, maybe if they boosted their buff to include melee rerolls, I think this would grant them enough synergy buff to include 1-3 in each of your detachments.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Well Dark Mechanicum FW rules just became better than Normal Ad Mech. They can repair all chaos vehicles and knights.

source?

Also very interested in this. Making Tzeentch Dark Mechanicum is sort of a dream, but they just never had the proper rules support...

++The so called "Angels" of the false omnissiah shall fall before our engines devious.++

Yea I don't get why our guys cant repair a knight....

Speaking on knights, I'm sure it might get a FAQ (or correct me if I'm wrong) but cant a knight just be from <MARS> himself as his house? Then he gets reroll from Cawl?

Thoughts after a few more decisive victories. Damn, AdMech feel really powerful:
Kastelans - disgustingly good.
Onagers - really really good. Both neutron and icarus.
Cawl - must take
Vanguard - must take for bubblewrap. Special weapons are next to useless since they just die turn 1 or 2.
Ranger - I'd take 1 squad of 5. Snipers are weird since you have to place them where they can see everything but can't be seen by anyone... But they're effective when they get shots off. Can kill a character a turn easily.
Infiltrators - still think they're a must due to no mobility in the army. But tasers feel really useless vs 3+ armour, which due to the popularity of space marines, is plentiful. Swords?
Dominus - actually not as bad as I thought. Still would be hard pressed to take more than 1 :p
Knight Crusader - very much so worth the points.
Balistarii - has yet to do any damage...... Like.... seriously? xD
Most games are easily won on turn 2 or 3. Tabled a guy on turn 3 once.
Ofc these aren't very well optimised lists facing me, but the players are competant definitelly with tournament wins.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Thoughts after a few more decisive victories. Damn, AdMech feel really powerful:
Kastelans - disgustingly good.
Onagers - really really good. Both neutron and icarus.
Cawl - must take
Vanguard - must take for bubblewrap. Special weapons are next to useless since they just die turn 1 or 2.
Ranger - I'd take 1 squad of 5. Snipers are weird since you have to place them where they can see everything but can't be seen by anyone... But they're effective when they get shots off. Can kill a character a turn easily.
Infiltrators - still think they're a must due to no mobility in the army. But tasers feel really useless vs 3+ armour, which due to the popularity of space marines, is plentiful. Swords?
Dominus - actually not as bad as I thought. Still would be hard pressed to take more than 1 :p
Knight Crusader - very much so worth the points.
Balistarii - has yet to do any damage...... Like.... seriously? xD
Most games are easily won on turn 2 or 3. Tabled a guy on turn 3 once.
Ofc these aren't very well optimised lists facing me, but the players are competant definitelly with tournament wins.

Two units of 2 Kastelans or one? I'm still wondering how to pick between 2 units of Crawlers and 2 of Kastelans in my 3 slots. Currently, it is the variety pack: Icarus, Neutron, Kastelan, and an RFBC Crusader for more anti-horde. (The fact that each unit of Kastelans will need a Datasmith is sort of annoying too.)

Your statement on Infiltrators is exactly why I am taking Dragoons even if I know that there are more point efficient options.

You doing Thermal + Avenger on your Crusader?

Funny... Balistarii have mobility and range. How are they doing as objective grabbers? (Unless you're doing pure point games.)

 Verviedi wrote:


++The so called "Angels" of the false omnissiah shall fall before our engines devious.++

Oooh. Question though: Are these going to have their own specific lines of models, or can we use regular Admech stuff as well? =\

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Thoughts after a few more decisive victories. Damn, AdMech feel really powerful:
Kastelans - disgustingly good.
Onagers - really really good. Both neutron and icarus.
Cawl - must take
Vanguard - must take for bubblewrap. Special weapons are next to useless since they just die turn 1 or 2.
Ranger - I'd take 1 squad of 5. Snipers are weird since you have to place them where they can see everything but can't be seen by anyone... But they're effective when they get shots off. Can kill a character a turn easily.
Infiltrators - still think they're a must due to no mobility in the army. But tasers feel really useless vs 3+ armour, which due to the popularity of space marines, is plentiful. Swords?
Dominus - actually not as bad as I thought. Still would be hard pressed to take more than 1 :p
Knight Crusader - very much so worth the points.
Balistarii - has yet to do any damage...... Like.... seriously? xD
Most games are easily won on turn 2 or 3. Tabled a guy on turn 3 once.
Ofc these aren't very well optimised lists facing me, but the players are competant definitelly with tournament wins.

Hmm, I think it's your Knight who's really helping you out. They look terrifying now.

Any news of the FAQ that was supposed to pop today ?

EDIT: Found the FAQ but no errata, was it officially announced anyway ?

Hmm... regarding the inability to repair Knights, how might Baneblade variants hold up as a substitute? Cawl and Dominus still wouldn't be able to repair a Baneblade, but an Enginseer can.

 Aaranis wrote:

Any news of the FAQ that was supposed to pop today ?

EDIT: Found the FAQ but no errata, was it officially announced anyway ?

In case anyone cannot find it:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/17/new-edition-now-available-read-the-rules-get-the-t-shirtgw-homepage-post-1/

I really am not liking how they phrased dice rolls. They should probably introduce phrasing such as "pre-modified hit roll" or "natural hit roll" to eliminate the need for this fine-tuning.

I played 2 games today and won both of them- neither were landslides but I never felt like the game was running away from me either.

The first game against astra militarum was the scouring with night fight and the second was the relic with burning skies (I think that was the scenario..?)

Thoughts:

Night fighting rules are ROUGH for a primarily shooting army.

I played 1000 point games for reference.

Tech Priest: Awesome. I sat him near my dunecrawlers and (when I could) the grav destroyers for repairs (useful mainly to keep dunecrawlersat the top stat line), and for the rerolling 1s, which is GREAT on the dunecrawlers and only okay for the destroyers.

I also took 2 7 man squads of rangers with 2 TAs. I really like the snipers, but I've found their usefulness really depends on the terrain and what army you are facing. For instance, there was a guard army I faced and the commander was out of line of sight the whole game using his vox to send orders.. couldn't touch him. I also fought a hive tyrant (I think? big nid HQ) and while they certainly plinked off a few wounds, the sniper benefit was lost since anyone could target it. I added some extra guys to the squads because I had points left over, and honestly if you have the points I would definitely recommend it. It made the snipers survive that much longer. I'm not totally sold on omnixpex's. It seems like most of the time the characters that you would want to shoot at won't be in cover because for the most part they will be protected by the other models and they'll want to get in the middle of all of them to use the buff auras.

Infiltrators were definitely stars. I might even consider picking up another box. They are also good character killers, or at least harassers. Being able to put them down within 9" and drop 25 bs 3+ shots into something is great, and I've had great luck charging them in that turn provided I spend a command point to reroll one die. They are no slouch in combat either. I took them head to head with some genestealers and they came out on top (granted I shot and charged) You can even go light/ medium vehicle hunting if you combine it with the +1 strength canticle.

Destroyers: I really wanted to like these guys since I just bought some. I tried to. I almost didn't include them in my list after reading some reviews, but thought I should at least give them a fair shot. Well, when they hit, they certainly pack a punch. But the problem is actually getting them to hit. Part of this is in survivability- they die pretty quickly even in cover with 3 wounds, and each loss hurts. Even setting this aside however, bs4+ is so weak. They might be more useable with Cawl, but with just a normal tech priest the rerolling 1s isn't enough. I took the grav and the phosphor variety. I agree with some other posters that these could definitely be useful... but they are WAY too expensive right now. For almost the same price I could have gotten another unit of infiltrators and a sniper squad of rangers, which would be way more useful.

Dunecrawlers:

- Neutron flavor: Wow this thing really is as great as people say. I found myself using command point rerolls a few times when rolling for numbers of shots because the damage is just that good, and it's so easy to wound with a good bs and occasional rerolls, S10, and AP -4. Definitely awesome.

- Icarus flavor: I have to say I didn't love it during my first game, as there were no enemy flyers, but it did fine. Effective BS4+ is fine for the number of shots and damage/ AP it puts out, and it's on quite a durable platform. Compare this to the destroyers who die quite easily- no bueno.

In my second game, this guy ROCKED it, and almost took out a hive tyrant in one salvo. BS 2+ plus tech priest reroll means he hit all of his shots.. and those pack a punch! So I definitely will be continuing to include one of this variety, in case there are fly keywords popping up (and they do pop up.. landspeeders, tau suits, plus all the "true" flying stuff). It's pretty cheap and durable for the firepower it packed.

Small rules question- we looked and for the rules for cover it did not seem to differentiate between vehicles and infantry for "obscuring" so we read it as if a vehicle is all the way in a terrain piece they do in fact benefit from cover. Now they cant' go in ruins, but for instance on hills or in craters we played them as benefiting. Is this correct? If not could you please point me to a page number? Thanks!

Depends on what cover rules you play with. If you do basic cover rules, if a unit is fully within a terrain feature, it has +1 to is armor save (never invulns)

If you used the advanced rules that calls out specific terrain, vehicles (PG 249 I believe) only get cover is 50% of them are obscured by the terrain feature. Infantry always have to be fully inside it.

It is odd one guy outside of cover means the whole squad is out for a realism standpoint, but it makes streamlining rules easy.

str00dles1 wrote:
Depends on what cover rules you play with. If you do basic cover rules, if a unit is fully within a terrain feature, it has +1 to is armor save (never invulns)

If you used the advanced rules that calls out specific terrain, vehicles (PG 249 I believe) only get cover is 50% of them are obscured by the terrain feature. Infantry always have to be fully inside it.

It is odd one guy outside of cover means the whole squad is out for a realism standpoint, but it makes streamlining rules easy.

But you can allocate 1 of the wounds to the guy and then benefit from cover on the others So no big.

Thoughts from today's games...

1. Rangers, low man count (I play 6, but 5 will work) are a must take. They did not take a single casualty all day, course that might have had something to do with distractionOnagers... Their highlight was taking out a Broodlord in a 500 point match, in turn 1. (Ok, so an Icarus Array might have took off two points first...)

2. Vanguard, PC's are nice, but really, you just need these guys for bubble wrap, and fall back all the time. Who cares if they don't get to shoot. I will say, I got mighty lucky today with my Overwatch rolls, but Assault 3, either thinned the onslaught or threw a wound on a MC/Vehicle every Charge, -1 to Toughness becomes huge when you get another unit or two (or Dominus) into the mix.

3. Didn't play with Cawl, did just fine, didn't roll canticles, didn't matter.

4. Tabled one opponent turn 3. He went first, made the mistake of piecemeal "reserves", allowed me to focus fire on 2-3 units at a time.

5. Onager is simply mean, -1 to hit non-Fly with Icarus Array, ok, even hitting half the shots brings down anything under Toughness 7 pretty quick. More than toughness 7? NeutrOnager is your friend.

Hardest part to remember Overwatch is determined before Charge die are rolled.

As far as Horde, beat a Genestealer focused army, no silly mission or objectives, just kill count.

If you play objective missions, mobility is not the strong point, I think I moved my models less than 10' all day in total...

Quick newbie question - does our HQ choice seem expensive?

Cawl is too expensive for the small getting started sizes I'm at, and our one HQ choice doesn't seem to have as big an impact on the game as others.

Would be happy to hear if I'm way off-base here

The Dominus seems to be torn between being a pretty decent beatstick and a pretty good buff bubble. His main problem is he can't do both at the same time: he's a melee beatstick that buffs range.

I guess he can plink at stuff with what is basically a multilaser while he's being a buff bubble though, and then if the stuff he's buffing dies he can go ape on whatever killed them for a glorious last stand.

Him being a mandatory HQ at least means you'll have no shortage of repair bubbles for your dunecrawlers.

Any thoughts against a daemon horde, fellow priests of the omnissiah? The normal dakkastelen is in order, but much less efficient. Any tips or strats?

Not planning to tailor, of course, just looking for ideas.

Errr why is it less efficient? >_>
Just do the core list without any changes. Daemons are really bad

The AP on them doesn't do a whole lot. Plaguebearers harder to hit, their big stuff is t7+, etc.

I guess I just play like I did against orks. Vanguard and tazer weapons do a little more work, I suppose.

Now I'm wondering, do we have a playstyle beyond...

Vanguard screen gunline of onagers and kastelens, infiltrator deepstrike, with knight support flavored to taste?

 gally912 wrote:
The AP on them doesn't do a whole lot. Plaguebearers harder to hit, their big stuff is t7+, etc.

I guess I just play like I did against orks. Vanguard and tazer weapons do a little more work, I suppose.

Now I'm wondering, do we have a playstyle beyond...

Vanguard screen gunline of onagers and kastelens, infiltrator deepstrike, with knight support flavored to taste?

Eh, they still put out a lot of shots with good str. I think that's still amazing. But yeah, tazer infiltrators are insane vs no armour hordes. 5 of mine killed 30 gaunts

Got my first game of 8th, and first game of 40k in over 3 years, played yesterday. We did power level 78, it turned out to be a natural number for both armies. I was hamstrung by the lack of built models, I only have 1 TPD based for a HQ and had to use a patrol detachment. I played against a BL army and won thanks to a lucky roll right before the game ended.

The main highlights are what others have seen.

Dakkabots, unit of 4, melted what they shot at. I took out two assault marine squads, one per turn and they won me the game. 72 shots at a full strength razorback that had popped smoke. 14 wounds, he failed 10 saves, and failed a reroll, so dead razor back. It blew up and his only two units in range of his objective had been hiding behind it. I get lucky and roll a 5 and 6 to kill the three assault marines and 3 wnd priest. That swung the game from a 4-4 tie to 4 - 1 win for me.

My unit of 10 fulgrites managed a charge on a combat squad of tac marines. 2 dies to overwatch and my vohlgeist field charge effect did nothing. In combat I got two 6's to wound and did 5 mortal wounds wiping them with another 4 normal wounds to spare. Once they got that 3+ save they just tarpitted his units. They killed 10 tac marines and 4 assault marines before finally dying.

I think my opponent has learned the power of those two units.

My other stuff didn't do much and I forgot to place my infiltrators and and lost the unit. Too bad, they would have pressured my opponent more.

Now if only we'd get some cheap HQ options...

Played 8th today for the first time,
loved it.

I like to play infantry heavy Admech and boy did they deliver.
Rangers are still pretty good objective sitters and the snipers are fantastic, they easily took out small characters each turn. They made their points back quite fast.
Vanguard are amazing, totally worth taking. Move + advance and still being able to shoot that lovely assault 3 weapon is fantastic. It makes them fast and a threat.
Infiltrators their point decrease makes them a good investment, but I really did like their special rules from 7th and think they should have a lil' bit more depth. Taser variant is really good for huge amount of attacks and can take on big units, while the power sword variant is great at killing marines.
Ruststalkers I think they lost the most with the new edition change, sure their move + advance makes them decent at running towards the enemy, but having no AP value on their weapons is a shame. The lose of their grenades is also a shame. I do love the mortal wounds bit, but everything these guys do, Infiltrators can do better.
Corpuscarii They are not bad and fall in the same category as Taser Infiltrators. But with only one wound they sure are fragile. Movement is not such a big problem with them having assault weapons as you can move + advance while still shooting (at -1 bs) and their best target is large blobs of enemy units, as their sheer possible amount of shots is incredible.
Fulgrite Based on their weapon options these really are better then Ruststalkers, but a bit slower. This unit suffers the most of the Admech not having any transports. But should you get them in close combat then they will most surely win it, because those D3 mortal wounds are delicious.

Bonus
Dragoons No longer being able to tie up units of marines without losing some health in return really hurts them as they are quite fragile in prolonged combats. Best use for them is fighting vehicles that are terrible in close combat and eating up lone support characters by running up and close to them, while ignoring larger groups of enemies.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
Depends on what cover rules you play with. If you do basic cover rules, if a unit is fully within a terrain feature, it has +1 to is armor save (never invulns)

If you used the advanced rules that calls out specific terrain, vehicles (PG 249 I believe) only get cover is 50% of them are obscured by the terrain feature. Infantry always have to be fully inside it.

It is odd one guy outside of cover means the whole squad is out for a realism standpoint, but it makes streamlining rules easy.

But you can allocate 1 of the wounds to the guy and then benefit from cover on the others So no big.

Not correct. It states that if a single model is not in the area cover then the entire unit does not have cover.

You allocate, then its all rolled at once for each guy. So even if the 1 guy dies the unit was not in cover during the saving throws. After its done then yes they would be

The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

 gally912 wrote:
Any thoughts against a daemon horde, fellow priests of the omnissiah? The normal dakkastelen is in order, but much less efficient. Any tips or strats?

Not planning to tailor, of course, just looking for ideas.

Dragoons and Infiltrators do really well against units with poor armor.

 Arlen wrote:
Dragoons No longer being able to tie up units of marines without losing some health in return really hurts them as they are quite fragile in prolonged combats. Best use for them is fighting vehicles that are terrible in close combat and eating up lone support characters by running up and close to them, while ignoring larger groups of enemies.

It is so funny seeing tanks trapped against walls. But yeah, charging large units is suicidal with pretty much any unit.

str00dles1 wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

Oh reaaaaaally?
I never say things without proof.
https://twitter.com/rvd1ofakind/status/871305345636999168

Kudos for you for documentation. And good to know...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

Oh reaaaaaally?
I never say things without proof.
https://twitter.com/rvd1ofakind/status/871305345636999168

Twitter is not any proof. Just how people's questions on Facebook and the answers they give mean nothing in any sort of tourney.

str00dles1 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 gally912 wrote:
The new faq seems to contradict you st00dles1.

No, because you allocate the wounds, then you make all the saves. This all happens at once.

How what the FAQ states is how the game normally flows. You do each shooting attack separate. And example is a Knight Titan shooting its battle cannon and gatling cannon at a single squad. Shooter picks and resolved 1 weapon fully, then the next. so between removing dead models outside of cover for the one attack, the squad can now gain cover for the next of the attacks at it.

Oh reaaaaaally?
I never say things without proof.
https://twitter.com/rvd1ofakind/status/871305345636999168

Twitter is not any proof. Just how people's questions on Facebook and the answers they give mean nothing in any sort of tourney.

Yes, a tweet from the main game dev isn't proof enough...

So to you all what's better dune crawlers or robots I have one of each and trying to deside what for slot number 3