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2017/06/27 09:11:50
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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Suzuteo wrote:
I agree, and I probably will continue running 2 Neutron, 1 Icarus, and 2 Kastelans. But the concept of 6 Crawlers is interesting.
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It sure is. I am thinking on how to play it against my buddy with his nasty nids list. 5 melee flyrants, 3 murlocs and 90 gaunts...yikes.
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2017/06/27 09:45:54
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Iago40k wrote:Suzuteo wrote:
I agree, and I probably will continue running 2 Neutron, 1 Icarus, and 2 Kastelans. But the concept of 6 Crawlers is interesting.
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It sure is. I am thinking on how to play it against my buddy with his nasty nids list. 5 melee flyrants, 3 murlocs and 90 gaunts...yikes.
For you? I think you can stick to the 2x5 Infiltrators and squeeze in 4 Neutron, 2 Icarus Crawlers, and 2x2 Kastelans. (It's just me trying to use Dragoons. Haha.)
Spearhead Detachment - 1050
HQ - 250
1x Belisarius Cawl
Heavy Support - 800
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array
Vanguard Detachment - 887
HQ - 135
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Macrostubber
Elite - 312
1x Cybernetica Datasmith - Gamma Pistol, Power Fist
5x Sicarian Infiltrator - 5x Taser Goad, 5x Flechette Blaster
5x Sicarian Infiltrator - 5x Taser Goad, 5x Flechette Blaster
Heavy Support - 440
2x Kastelan Robots - 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, 2x Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters
2x Kastelan Robots - 2x Heavy Phosphor Blasters, 2x Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters
Total: 1937 points
5 Command Points
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 09:46:16
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2017/06/27 09:53:20
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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gakky thing is, we play 1850 over here.
So my list looks like this, with some points to spare (believe me, I want to make Dragoons work as well!  )
So, 41 points left to spend though I am not that keen on using that patrol detachment. Next game is Ynnari with loads of wave serpents and wraithguard. Should be fun 
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/27 09:56:27
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2017/06/27 10:13:28
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Iago40k wrote:gakky thing is, we play 1850 over here.
So my list looks like this, with some points to spare (believe me, I want to make Dragoons work as well! )
So, 41 points left to spend though I am not that keen on using that patrol detachment. Next game is Ynnari with loads of wave serpents and wraithguard. Should be fun
Cut the Stubbers on your Crawlers and add another unit of Vanguard or Rangers?
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2017/06/27 10:18:07
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Being able to splash Imperial units have been massive for my Ad Mech army. Pure Admech at the moment suffers greatly from efficient screens, and mobility constraints.
I have been running 1000-1400 points of Mechanicus, while splashing in 2x 30 Conscripts, 1 SoB Contingent and 2-3 units of Scions.
It has been incredible with so many different point efficient threat vectors.
My Mechanicus have always been
Cawl,
2-3 units of 2 Baymax, and 2-4 Onagers.
One of my Sample list:
Battalion
Lord Commissar
Tempestor Prime
2x 28 Conscripts
1x 10 Guardsmen
2x Tempestus Scions: 4 Melta
2x Rough Riders: 2 Plasma
Spearhead Detachment
Cawl
Data Smith
2x 2 Baymax (triple dakka)
2x Dunecrawler : Icarus
Vanguard Detachment
Lord Commissar
2x 5 Ratlings: Snipers
Eversor
2x Wyrdvane Psyker
Vulture
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for the emperor |
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2017/06/27 10:42:36
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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Suzuteo wrote:
Cut the Stubbers on your Crawlers and add another unit of Vanguard or Rangers?
Can't cut the stubbers, they are build in with the Neutronlaser.
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2017/06/27 10:44:20
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Deshkar wrote:Being able to splash Imperial units have been massive for my Ad Mech army. Pure Admech at the moment suffers greatly from efficient screens, and mobility constraints.
I have been running 1000-1400 points of Mechanicus, while splashing in 2x 30 Conscripts, 1 SoB Contingent and 2-3 units of Scions.
It has been incredible with so many different point efficient threat vectors.
...
As I mentioned before, I don't think there is an option in Imperium that is efficient, mobile, and screens well. Conscripts are efficient and screen well, but they're a nightmare to move around. I prefer Caliver Vanguard over Melta Scions because they get Canticles and rerolling. And I would definitely run 2 Neutron over Icarus for Crawlers, since you have the 2x2 Kastelan already. At worst, 1:1 if your meta is Eldar or Tau-heavy.
Iago40k wrote:Suzuteo wrote:
Cut the Stubbers on your Crawlers and add another unit of Vanguard or Rangers?
Can't cut the stubbers, they are build in with the Neutronlaser.
OHHH... I have been doing this wrong.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 10:44:47
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2017/06/27 10:52:46
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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Deshkar wrote:Being able to splash Imperial units have been massive for my Ad Mech army. Pure Admech at the moment suffers greatly from efficient screens, and mobility constraints.
I have been running 1000-1400 points of Mechanicus, while splashing in 2x 30 Conscripts, 1 SoB Contingent and 2-3 units of Scions.
It has been incredible with so many different point efficient threat vectors.
Too AM heavy for my taste but I can see it working. Though I am on Suzuteos side when it comes to too many conscripts. Yes we need a screening unit but if they are that large movement becomes a heavier problem than it is already. It leans stronlgy to "I table you round 1 to 3 or else..."
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 10:59:46
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2017/06/27 17:23:47
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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Iago40k wrote:Deshkar wrote:Being able to splash Imperial units have been massive for my Ad Mech army. Pure Admech at the moment suffers greatly from efficient screens, and mobility constraints.
I have been running 1000-1400 points of Mechanicus, while splashing in 2x 30 Conscripts, 1 SoB Contingent and 2-3 units of Scions.
It has been incredible with so many different point efficient threat vectors.
Too AM heavy for my taste but I can see it working. Though I am on Suzuteos side when it comes to too many conscripts. Yes we need a screening unit but if they are that large movement becomes a heavier problem than it is already. It leans stronlgy to "I table you round 1 to 3 or else..."
Check out what is winning the tournaments though. 8 flyer lists are winning. 6 Onager + Celestine lists are winning. The objectives just don't matter that much anymore because tabling is a realistic option at a tournament now. Games are faster. Except for that Dark Eldar player I played who slow played me out of my third turn (I still rolled him on kill points even though I only got 2 turns).
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/06/first-reported-gt-results-in-for-8th.html
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2017/06/27 17:25:25
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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Wulfey wrote:Iago40k wrote:Deshkar wrote:Being able to splash Imperial units have been massive for my Ad Mech army. Pure Admech at the moment suffers greatly from efficient screens, and mobility constraints.
I have been running 1000-1400 points of Mechanicus, while splashing in 2x 30 Conscripts, 1 SoB Contingent and 2-3 units of Scions.
It has been incredible with so many different point efficient threat vectors.
Too AM heavy for my taste but I can see it working. Though I am on Suzuteos side when it comes to too many conscripts. Yes we need a screening unit but if they are that large movement becomes a heavier problem than it is already. It leans stronlgy to "I table you round 1 to 3 or else..."
Check out what is winning the tournaments though. 8 flyer lists are winning. 6 Onager + Celestine lists are winning. The objectives just don't matter that much anymore because tabling is a realistic option at a tournament now. Games are faster. Except for that Dark Eldar player I played who slow played me out of my third turn (I still rolled him on kill points even though I only got 2 turns).
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/06/first-reported-gt-results-in-for-8th.html
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to base any predictions off their limited results in thus far. The whole metagame is going to be fair game for at least 6 months, barring shake-ups from Codices.
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2017/06/27 18:08:33
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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 em_en_oh_pee wrote:Wulfey wrote:Iago40k wrote:Deshkar wrote:Being able to splash Imperial units have been massive for my Ad Mech army. Pure Admech at the moment suffers greatly from efficient screens, and mobility constraints.
I have been running 1000-1400 points of Mechanicus, while splashing in 2x 30 Conscripts, 1 SoB Contingent and 2-3 units of Scions.
It has been incredible with so many different point efficient threat vectors.
Too AM heavy for my taste but I can see it working. Though I am on Suzuteos side when it comes to too many conscripts. Yes we need a screening unit but if they are that large movement becomes a heavier problem than it is already. It leans stronlgy to "I table you round 1 to 3 or else..."
Check out what is winning the tournaments though. 8 flyer lists are winning. 6 Onager + Celestine lists are winning. The objectives just don't matter that much anymore because tabling is a realistic option at a tournament now. Games are faster. Except for that Dark Eldar player I played who slow played me out of my third turn (I still rolled him on kill points even though I only got 2 turns).
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/06/first-reported-gt-results-in-for-8th.html
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to base any predictions off their limited results in thus far. The whole metagame is going to be fair game for at least 6 months, barring shake-ups from Codices.
Agreed. A lot of bloggers and Youtubers have only recently figured out stuff we've been speculating a month ago.
But it is true that flying lists are still a thing, and again, the 6 Crawler concept is intriguing. I suppose really the big question boils down to Heavy Support slots. How many Kastelans do we want to trade for Icarus? At what point does our anti-air and anti-horde game become insufficient?
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2017/06/27 18:13:04
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wulfey wrote: 8 flyer lists are winning. 6 Onager + Celestine lists are winning.
good info! (it's a mean 6 flyer list BTW.) Where did you see the Onager + Celestine result?
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2017/06/27 18:29:15
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Mysterious Techpriest
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I don't really understand how Flyers in mass are effective, really. You can't exit by a table edge to come back any more right ? So how do they manage the minimal movement distance with all the terrain and enemy models, and their own models ? Am I missing something ?
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40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts |
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2017/06/27 18:32:48
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 Aaranis wrote:I don't really understand how Flyers in mass are effective, really. You can't exit by a table edge to come back any more right ? So how do they manage the minimal movement distance with all the terrain and enemy models, and their own models ? Am I missing something ?
I think Space Marine flyers can hover?
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2017/06/27 18:51:14
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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 axisofentropy wrote:Wulfey wrote: 8 flyer lists are winning. 6 Onager + Celestine lists are winning.
good info! (it's a mean 6 flyer list BTW.) Where did you see the Onager + Celestine result?
At game empire last saturday. It was a better version of my list and he tabled all his opponents. I saw the list being run.
6 Onagers + Cawl
2 exorcists + 2 rhinos + 3 battle sister squads + Celestine
Onagers and cawl can move and fire freely (unlike robots and ballistari). Celestine is just bananas and keeps pressure off your Crawlers. He even beat this completely lame fire raptor list. The fire raptor list was 3 Fire Raptors, 2 hawk gunships, Guilliman, and a VSG. Everything hovers first turn and he tries to shoot you off the table. Only the crawler list was able to fight that and the crawlers almost lost.
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2017/06/27 18:57:58
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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Wulfey wrote: axisofentropy wrote:Wulfey wrote: 8 flyer lists are winning. 6 Onager + Celestine lists are winning.
good info! (it's a mean 6 flyer list BTW.) Where did you see the Onager + Celestine result?
At game empire last saturday. It was a better version of my list and he tabled all his opponents. I saw the list being run.
6 Onagers + Cawl
2 exorcists + 2 rhinos + 3 battle sister squads + Celestine
Onagers and cawl can move and fire freely (unlike robots and ballistari). Celestine is just bananas and keeps pressure off your Crawlers. He even beat this completely lame fire raptor list. The fire raptor list was 3 Fire Raptors, 2 hawk gunships, Guilliman, and a VSG. Everything hovers first turn and he tries to shoot you off the table. Only the crawler list was able to fight that and the crawlers almost lost.
These are extreme outlier lists trying to define the meta. I can't see them lasting or if they do, they might wind up being a scissor to a rock to some other paper.
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2017/06/27 19:36:29
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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em_en_oh_pee wrote:
These are extreme outlier lists trying to define the meta. I can't see them lasting or if they do, they might wind up being a scissor to a rock to some other paper.
Well, while I don't believe in onager's list, I think ultramarines' gunline will last no less than riptide spam in 7ed.
It is just matter of calculating which units provide best value for points and raptors are insanely good.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 19:36:45
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2017/06/27 19:47:48
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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Fan67 wrote: em_en_oh_pee wrote:
These are extreme outlier lists trying to define the meta. I can't see them lasting or if they do, they might wind up being a scissor to a rock to some other paper.
Well, while I don't believe in onager's list, I think ultramarines' gunline will last no less than riptide spam in 7ed.
It is just matter of calculating which units provide best value for points and raptors are insanely good.
Three Fire Raptors is a lot of points in three T7 models with a 3+ save. I mean, they are 400+ points a pop. At 36" they do throw 34 dice between the Bolt Cannon and QHBs though, so they will trainwreck horde lists.
Against a lot of lists though, you just focus-fire each one until they are dead. If they are hovering, won't be hard to hit either.
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2017/06/27 20:05:15
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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I agree. Worst comes to worst, we run 1:1 Neutron to Icarus. But if they're just hovering, even Neutron Crawlers should be able to take them out.
My real worry are the hordes. Like I asked, the tradeoff for us seems to be balancing screening elements with anti-air and anti-horde. We've got anti-tank and anti-MEQ/Primaris in the bag.
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2017/06/27 20:23:34
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Mysterious Techpriest
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Hordes can be dealt with Corpuscarii Electro-Priests, Infiltrators with Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters, Radium carbines, Dakkastelans, Kataphrons Destroyers (Grav, Plasma or even the flamers), hell even the Icarus Array could deal with hordes. Honestly I don't see the problem of hordes as much as before, and I have yet to face a horde army at my LGS, people are more inclined towards low body count armies for now, with one of our best players writing dirty lists full of Characters.
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40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts |
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2017/06/27 20:39:36
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Aaranis wrote:Hordes can be dealt with Corpuscarii Electro-Priests, Infiltrators with Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters, Radium carbines, Dakkastelans, Kataphrons Destroyers (Grav, Plasma or even the flamers), hell even the Icarus Array could deal with hordes. Honestly I don't see the problem of hordes as much as before, and I have yet to face a horde army at my LGS, people are more inclined towards low body count armies for now, with one of our best players writing dirty lists full of Characters.
Hordes are more efficient than all of those options but the Kastelans though. For example, consider that Infiltrators need to kill 40 Conscripts to make their points back. Destroyers and Radium Carbines also aren't too great for Hordes. =\
Anyone play hordes regularly and have an opinion? Maybe the most egregious sorts that just carpet the board with models?
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2017/06/27 21:19:57
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Three Fire Raptors is a lot of points in three T7 models with a 3+ save. I mean, they are 400+ points a pop. At 36" they do throw 34 dice between the Bolt Cannon and QHBs though, so they will trainwreck horde lists.
Against a lot of lists though, you just focus-fire each one until they are dead. If they are hovering, won't be hard to hit either.
Well of course you can counter that list. Given enough preparation you can counter anything.
But FW based gunline list for SM can shut down threats efficiently enough to stay in meta for some time.
I wouldn't call it pay to win, but it is closer to that than usual.
Moving back to Martians, I am going to test this list on weekend:
I tried to include means to deal with characters, vehicles and, most of all, mass infantry.
Eversor is here to lock enemy gunline, but previous tests show that I fail to roll 9" on 3d6 pretty often, thinking about Callidus.
Inquisitor for overwatch denial and conscripts are ideal tarpit to protect vehicles.
Suzuteo wrote: Aaranis wrote:Hordes can be dealt with Corpuscarii Electro-Priests, Infiltrators with Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters, Radium carbines, Dakkastelans, Kataphrons Destroyers (Grav, Plasma or even the flamers), hell even the Icarus Array could deal with hordes. Honestly I don't see the problem of hordes as much as before, and I have yet to face a horde army at my LGS, people are more inclined towards low body count armies for now, with one of our best players writing dirty lists full of Characters.
Hordes are more efficient than all of those options but the Kastelans though. For example, consider that Infiltrators need to kill 40 Conscripts to make their points back. Destroyers and Radium Carbines also aren't too great for Hordes. =\
Anyone play hordes regularly and have an opinion? Maybe the most egregious sorts that just carpet the board with models?
Well I played a chaos list with just over 150 brimstone horrors and it has yet to fail. More sofisticated daemon lords are going to field over 300 brimstones on the local team tournament this weekend.
But local master minds muster mass SM sniper scouts with mass sisters of silence list to counter brimstone spam. On paper seems like a solid counter.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/27 21:25:16
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2017/06/27 23:32:11
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Mindless Servitor
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Still new and buying painting jupiter forces but I havn't seen anyone talk about servitors yet, I made 2 4borg units 2 plasma cannons each for my army. Plan is they act as my 2 Hqs bodyguards always keeping them cover cuz of chariter rule with added bonus of rerolls of 1 to negate gets hot. Thoughts?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/27 23:34:03
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2017/06/27 23:36:41
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Mysterious Techpriest
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 Magos-Macrotek-Danny wrote:Still new and buying painting jupiter forces but I havn't seen anyone talk about servitors yet, I made 2 4borg units 2 plasma cannons each for my army. Plan is they act as my 2 Hqs bodyguards always keeping them cover cuz of chariter rule with added bonus of rerolls of 1 to negate gets hot. Thoughts?
Hey saw your Jupiter army on the forums ! Well there's been talk about the Servitors, the general consensus is that they are really expensive for their limited use, because of the price of the servo-arm that no one will ever use in melee. There is probably potential in your idea, but in my opinion a min squad of Vanguards with one or two Plasma Calivers should do the trick well enough and with a better reliability.
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40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts |
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2017/06/28 00:05:15
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Mindless Servitor
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Ty and good to know, I'll probably try out 1 unit for fluff. I know they suck but just love the lore.
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2017/06/28 03:16:14
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Why stop at 6 Onagers? Can get 9 with two spearheads, then flesh out an allied battalion with cheap AM HQ's and troops for under 500 points...
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si vis pacem, para bellum |
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2017/06/28 03:24:59
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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A lot of the flyers can hover, but they still need to move.
Most jet/plane aircraft is 45 inches MUST move and 90 turn, or hover for 20 inch MUST move and turn any direction. Also if for any reason yours flies off the table then its auto dead.
Biggest thing is they mostly wont be in any reroll bubbles and are usually very expensive if you want a good attack plane. As mentioned the Fireraptor is 386PTS with las option. It is murderous but very expensive so loosing it is a big loss. (Also once its crippled its crappy aswell)
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2017/06/28 03:28:58
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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No, I'm pretty sure hover mode removes your minimum move and allows you to stop.
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2017/06/28 05:57:00
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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Pedroig wrote:Why stop at 6 Onagers? Can get 9 with two spearheads, then flesh out an allied battalion with cheap AM HQ's and troops for under 500 points...
Er... well, one problem is that their bases are like dinner plates, and you can't fit nine of them around Cawl?
baseSize / (2*sin(180/numberUnits)) = distanceFromCenter
130/(2*sin(20)) = 190
Cawl is 35mm in radius on his shortest side, so 190 - 35 = 165mm = 6.10236 inches
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 06:07:06
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2017/06/28 06:27:07
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
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Dakka Veteran
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I am already looking forward to the moment when spamlists aren't viable anymore.
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