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2017/07/29 00:38:58
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Jaynen wrote: Whats the general opinion on Ruststalkers/infiltrators.
Worth having both?
They're both good but have different uses. The Infiltrators you'll want mostly as your mobile force, they can Infiltrate and they're the only AdMech units who do this, so this is useful to appear behind enemy lines to grab objectives or harass artillery/support. The Tasers/Flechettes loadout is good, it can send a lot of attacks with the Tesla rule but against heavily armoured opponents (talking about 3+ or 2+ save) they won't do much. Don't underestimate the Flechette Blasters however, you can have 25 shots at S3 with your unit of five and depending on the target you may be able to either slaughter a squad of light armoured troops or finish off one or two wounds on something you want dead. Got like 7 dead Pathfinders with a salvo of 20 shots once, and my dice weren't that good. They're pistols too, so if they survive a round of CC they can shoot it point-blank in the fight too. The Power Swords/stubber combo I've never tried (I play wysiwyg) but obviously it's going to be best against Marines and the likes because of the AP. You'll hit on S4 and not S6 though, but what you'll hurt you'll hurt well given they'll mostly get no armour saves. If I remember well they're cheaper than the Tasers too.
As for the Ruststalkers, I've only used them twice since I bought them recently but I think they're invaluable. They're your mortal wounds dispensers, ideal defense against deep striking Terminators and the like. I use mine with the Razors and Chordclaws, as I think it's the best loadout, hitting on S5 with the Swords is not worth it compared for the chance to do D3 mortal Wounds with the Chordclaw. In the two games I've used them they made more than their points back. Don't expect them to last long however, you must move them cleverly to get to your targets, charge it, slaughter/cripple it and then it's your luck if they don't get shot off or charged back, they're as flimsy as Skitarii can be. Still, 100 pts for five murder machines like that (with the Chordclaws/Razors) are well worth it. They'll remove any well armoured treats under the weight of attacks. Especially good against Terminators or troops with 3++ saves. We don't have many ways to deal mortal wounds in the AdMech apart from the Volkite Blaster, the Arquebus and the explosions of our vehicles (pro tip: don't rely on them), so I'll never have a list without them from now on.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/07/29 18:58:32
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Jaynen wrote: Whats the general opinion on Ruststalkers/infiltrators.
Worth having both?
I personally recommend OC Plasma Scions instead.
They don't have the same role. You'll want a Command Squad with Plasma/Melta to drop behind an enemy's tank/monster and use the Tempestor with command rod to re-roll your 1s to Hit and Wound. After they do that they'll end up getting shot 80% of the time, they're a suicide squad mostly. Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are not made to destroy tanks, the Infiltrators are for well, Infiltration and can deal with hordes pretty nicely, and so they'll be a little harder to kill if you manage a 9" charge. Ruststalkers are a protection in your lines against things like Terminators with Storm Shields, they're a counter charge unit. That said, you could have both Sicarians and the Scions, that's what I do and it's working fine. I'd recommend trying to fit the Scions in a Vanguard Detachment with two other Imperium Elites so that you don't mix them up with the Mechanicus and lose the Canticles.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/07/30 12:50:13
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Jaynen wrote: Whats the general opinion on Ruststalkers/infiltrators.
Worth having both?
They're both good but have different uses. The Infiltrators you'll want mostly as your mobile force, they can Infiltrate and they're the only AdMech units who do this, so this is useful to appear behind enemy lines to grab objectives or harass artillery/support. The Tasers/Flechettes loadout is good, it can send a lot of attacks with the Tesla rule but against heavily armoured opponents (talking about 3+ or 2+ save) they won't do much. Don't underestimate the Flechette Blasters however, you can have 25 shots at S3 with your unit of five and depending on the target you may be able to either slaughter a squad of light armoured troops or finish off one or two wounds on something you want dead. Got like 7 dead Pathfinders with a salvo of 20 shots once, and my dice weren't that good. They're pistols too, so if they survive a round of CC they can shoot it point-blank in the fight too. The Power Swords/stubber combo I've never tried (I play wysiwyg) but obviously it's going to be best against Marines and the likes because of the AP. You'll hit on S4 and not S6 though, but what you'll hurt you'll hurt well given they'll mostly get no armour saves. If I remember well they're cheaper than the Tasers too.
As for the Ruststalkers, I've only used them twice since I bought them recently but I think they're invaluable. They're your mortal wounds dispensers, ideal defense against deep striking Terminators and the like. I use mine with the Razors and Chordclaws, as I think it's the best loadout, hitting on S5 with the Swords is not worth it compared for the chance to do D3 mortal Wounds with the Chordclaw. In the two games I've used them they made more than their points back. Don't expect them to last long however, you must move them cleverly to get to your targets, charge it, slaughter/cripple it and then it's your luck if they don't get shot off or charged back, they're as flimsy as Skitarii can be. Still, 100 pts for five murder machines like that (with the Chordclaws/Razors) are well worth it. They'll remove any well armoured treats under the weight of attacks. Especially good against Terminators or troops with 3++ saves. We don't have many ways to deal mortal wounds in the AdMech apart from the Volkite Blaster, the Arquebus and the explosions of our vehicles (pro tip: don't rely on them), so I'll never have a list without them from now on.
I would encourage you to try Fulgurite Electropriests if you're looking for mortal wounds. They're cheaper, and in many cases more survivable with the 5++/5+++. They're a bit slower, but we're mainly talking about the enemy coming to us anyway. The last several games I've used them they've charged a weakened transport near my front line to activate their 3++ first turn, then wiped out a couple squads before going down.
2017/07/30 13:45:56
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
I would encourage you to try Fulgurite Electropriests if you're looking for mortal wounds. They're cheaper, and in many cases more survivable with the 5++/5+++. They're a bit slower, but we're mainly talking about the enemy coming to us anyway. The last several games I've used them they've charged a weakened transport near my front line to activate their 3++ first turn, then wiped out a couple squads before going down.
You're right, I'd like to try them sometime. I need to buy at least 10 to make them effective, and I was waiting for a chance to have a transport someday for us (let us pray the Omnissiah). They're really interesting too ! I just loved the looks of the Sicarians better haha
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/07/30 14:07:29
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
You're right, I'd like to try them sometime. I need to buy at least 10 to make them effective, and I was waiting for a chance to have a transport someday for us (let us pray the Omnissiah). They're really interesting too ! I just loved the looks of the Sicarians better haha
I'd agree with that. They're much easier to paint as well.
2017/07/30 15:08:06
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
You're right, I'd like to try them sometime. I need to buy at least 10 to make them effective, and I was waiting for a chance to have a transport someday for us (let us pray the Omnissiah). They're really interesting too ! I just loved the looks of the Sicarians better haha
I'd agree with that. They're much easier to paint as well.
I think they're pretty easy to paint, half of the model is Leadbelcher with touches of Brass Scorpion for me, then I apply Nuln Oil and that's half the model. Don't know, Infiltrators weren't hard I find.
Jaynen wrote:So try a unit of electro priests vs the rust stalkers for the melee/anti charger role?
How do you need to kit them out?
Electro-priests: with the staves, they're the Fulgurite variants. For Ruststalkers: Razors and Chordclaws. I see no reason to have the twin Swords just for S5, S5 is in a very special place with the new wounding values. Chordclaws give one attack that gives D3 mortal wounds, that's more than one attack from a sword any time.
Let's compare the two units for curiosity, not trying to prove a point or anything, no Mathammer because I don't know how it works sorry.
5 Ruststalkers outfitted with Chordclaws and Transonic Razors, 100 pts, 10W, T3, 4+/6++ saves. 8" move, 16 attacks at S4, 5 of them will deal D3 mortal wounds on 6s to Wound, and 11 of them 1 mortal wound on the same result. Other results just deal 1 Damage with no AP. Ld 7 with the Princeps, 6 for the others.
5 Fulgurite Electro-Priests, 80 pts, 5W, T3, 6+/5++(turns to 3++ after wiping a unit)/5+++ saves, 6" move, 10 attacks at S5, all of them deal D3 mortal wounds on 6s to Wound, other results still deal D3 Damage with AP-2. They have a chance to deal 1 additional Mortal Wound per model with a 6 on a D6 after a successful charge. Ld 8 for all.
So our 5 Ruststalkers have twice the Wounds of the 5 Priests, but have less resilience. Any weapon with a decent AP (which their targets will have most of the time) will make quick work of their saves, but two wounds need to be taken off before removing a model. They have no means to counter mortal wounds themselves, whereas the Priests have a 5+ save. The real power of the Priests comes after wiping out a unit, and it's easier than it looks in some cases, like said earlier, just finishing off a light vehicle or a small squad will ensure that. After that they'll become as resilient as Terminators with Storm Shields (my bane), with a lower T but with chances to ignore wounds with the 5+ save. An earlier poster many pages ago talked about how his Priests were unstoppable after securing their 3++, and I believe that. I played an apocalypse game yesterday where whe had the full 1st Company of the Blood Angels in our side, 100+ Terminators. Nothing could break the line.
After this comparison I'd say no units surpasses the other, but I reckon I'm considering the Priests with a better look now. They are each to be used differently in my opinion, Rustalkers have the number of attacks and the speed, however their large bases make them hard to hide from enemy fire. In the few games I had they had their targets, did the job and then promptly died with honour. Priests are easier to hide, and can be taken in big units. I'd say a minimum of 10 would be recommended, they're still somewhat flimsy by the time they kill that unit, so they'll have less impact if there's only 2 alive after that. 10-15 Priests with 3++ /5+++ saves will be really hard to stop and the enemy WILL have to deal with your 160-240 pts blob of murder machines.
As soon as we have a decent transport I'd daresay the Priests will do the CC duty at the front lines while the Ruststalkers are best left guarding your artillery, using their speed to meet any threat appearing in the rear guard.
Congrats you'll have me buy some now haha I think I'll change their heads though, not a fan of the blue bald blind guys (hope the adjectives were in the right order). Sorry for the big post I always get carried away
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/07/30 20:57:05
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Jaynen wrote: Whats the general opinion on Ruststalkers/infiltrators.
Worth having both?
I personally recommend OC Plasma Scions instead.
They don't have the same role. You'll want a Command Squad with Plasma/Melta to drop behind an enemy's tank/monster and use the Tempestor with command rod to re-roll your 1s to Hit and Wound. After they do that they'll end up getting shot 80% of the time, they're a suicide squad mostly. Infiltrators and Ruststalkers are not made to destroy tanks, the Infiltrators are for well, Infiltration and can deal with hordes pretty nicely, and so they'll be a little harder to kill if you manage a 9" charge. Ruststalkers are a protection in your lines against things like Terminators with Storm Shields, they're a counter charge unit. That said, you could have both Sicarians and the Scions, that's what I do and it's working fine. I'd recommend trying to fit the Scions in a Vanguard Detachment with two other Imperium Elites so that you don't mix them up with the Mechanicus and lose the Canticles.
Well, we don't need Deep Strike anti-horde. We need Deep Strike anti-tank and anti-character.
Your point on Ruststalkers is correct though. Not sure if they are point efficient enough though. I would much rather have another Arquebus squad for anti-character.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/31 06:33:06
2017/08/01 02:53:57
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
So BAO was an interesting learning experience, didnt do as well as hoped but learned some new ideas
Vanguard/rangers: mainly useless now, die too fast on their own, with the leadership hit, would die even worse with squads more than 5 man, dont take any unless you take a unit of ranger with Arquebusses, those things are honestly great
Kataphrons: Probably still wont use, them, not worth the points with their weapons now.
Fulgurite Priest: holy crap are these guys good, as counter charge or marching them up the field after they kill something, mine slapped the hell out of a Solitaire and then mobbed around the board
Cawl: Good for what he does, but the FNP removal hurts, If anything his invuln should be upgraded to 4++, but still good
Dominius: Necessary tax, good backup if cawl bites it
Kastellans: Dude, the shooty ones, holy crap, mow down anything and take a beating, all the reflects and all the shots, these guys are great, dropping my knight to take more because honestly, one of these guys is better than an avenger gatling
Dunecrawlers: Both the Neutron and the Iccarus ones worked out amazingly, just as good as we're all saying
Our main issue is mobility, by dropping the Knight for 3 bots, 1 crawler, a unit of infiltrators and a ironstrider, should make up the punch and add more mobility/objective grabbing to the army.
Dropping the battalion detachment and 1 command point for an Vanguard and a Spearhead, mainly so i dont have to take any troops except for the aforementioned ranger sniper squad
3000
4000
2017/08/01 03:54:59
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Do you mind posting your army list and number of points? I might be running something similar for my first game (going up against mainly Space Marines) and I wouldn't mind some feedback:
I think it is a mistake to drop the Knight. They are also really good. They are mobile, shoot well (I like TC+AGC), fight well (Feet > Reaper in most cases), got a massive base to screen with, and are a great distraction.
Mr. Funktastic wrote: Do you mind posting your army list and number of points? I might be running something similar for my first game (going up against mainly Space Marines) and I wouldn't mind some feedback:
Dude, what are you doing with your vanguard. Never run any upgrades on them. The only one I'd accept even as a remote posibility is plasma.
Agreed. These sorts of upgrades would only be efficient in a maximum squad, but right now, they're too expensive and too vulnerable in numbers. We have nothing like Commissars to protect us from failed morale rolls. Here's hoping the Secutarii Peltasts have crazy good combi-weapons and some form of bubble shield. Might be our only chance for decent infantry.
2017/08/01 11:03:41
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
The more I think about it the more I believe our troops are severely overcosted. 10 pts/model for a Vanguard compared to a 7 pts Kabalite Warrior:
Kabalite: 7" Move, WS 3+, BS 3+, T3, 1W, 1 Attack (2 for sergeant), Ld 7 (8 for sergeant), 5+ save and 6+++ from turn one.
Vanguard/Ranger: 6" Move, WS 4+, BS 3+, T3, 1W, 1 Attack (2 for sergeant), Ld 6 (7 for sergeant), 4+/6++ saves
So we are paying 3 pts more per model for what, a better save ? I wouldn't even call it better because the Kabalite have a mean to ignore mortal wounds and we don't. What's more, the Kabalite can buy more special weapons and embark on a transport whereas we don't yet. They even fight better in CC.
Same thing for Fire Warriors, 8 pts/model, but they have WS 5+ and BS4+, but have a way better way to deal with Morale and better base guns than us. For a 4+ save too.
Really hoping they will lower points value for our troops, or at least give us Forge-World tactics or stratagems that allow us to buff them like the old Imperatives.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/08/01 11:08:04
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Vanguard always have cover due to the CotO buff(so they are 3+ vs shooting) and have the -1 toughness aura. Also Morale doesn't really matter as you should run 5 man units anyway.
Not saying they are great, just pointing out some important things you missed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 11:08:20
Makes sense to run the vanguard naked, but I'm just not sure what to do with the extra 27 points in that case. Guess I'll think of something! Rest of the list looks good otherwise?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 11:16:32
2017/08/01 11:30:04
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
rvd1ofakind wrote: Vanguard always have cover due to the CotO buff(so they are 3+ vs shooting) and have the -1 toughness aura. Also Morale doesn't really matter as you should run 5 man units anyway.
Not saying they are great, just pointing out some important things you missed
The Canticle lasts for a turn, not always (except if you roll it several time but that would be a waste considering the other nice canticles), true for the -1T aura but it's only true in CC and you'll need a dedicated melee unit to exploit that malus. Once they get charged they'll get slaughtered most of the time too. And that may be true for Vanguards but Rangers have lost their special rules. They got cheaper by 1 point but Vanguard got more expensive by 1 point so what's the point (no pun intended) ?
We COULD have bigger units if Morale wasn't a issue like it is, there's a few reasons we'd like to have bigger units: more special weapons, more bodies to protect the special weapons, fewer detachment slots required if you want a quantity of infantry in your Troops choices. We HAVE to run min squads because of the costs of the units, their poor morale and so their inefficiency. We wouldn't have to run min squads if they were properly balanced. Personnaly I don't like the looks of 5 man squads, and they're not really efficient either as you'll get shot three times and lose more than half your fire power.
Our codex feels so far away :(
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/08/01 11:46:15
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
What other nice canticles? Shroudpsalm is the only one that will be good always. Others are niche. I usually roll for it after I choose it turn 1 unless I have multiple units in CC (since half of our buffs are CC related for some reason...), the re-roll 1s in shooting is irrelevant due to cawl and I don't even remember the 6th one off the top of my head showing how awful it is.
Mr. Funktastic wrote: Do you mind posting your army list and number of points? I might be running something similar for my first game (going up against mainly Space Marines) and I wouldn't mind some feedback:
That is almost the exact list I am running for my Week 4 today for the Escalation League at my shop. Probably a good sign they are similar (posted below). I honestly don't know about Dragoons, but the addition of them as a screen unit seems actually not bad. They aren't killing anything, just tying stuff up. Might have to give those a go.
Spoiler:
HQ:
Cawl
[250]
Elites:
Cybernetica Datasmith
Gamma, Power Fist
[52]
(10) Fulgurite Priests
[160]
Troops:
(5) Rangers
2x Arquebus, Omnispex
[107]
Heavy:
(3) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[330]
(2) Kastelan Robot
Triple Heavy Phosphor Blasters
[220]
rvd1ofakind wrote: Maybe toss the cognis upgrades on Onagers as well(I assume only Icarus has that ar the moment in your list).
The Balistarii aren't great but you could do a lot worse, I guess
The ironstrider is there for relatively cheap AV and mobility, park him at an objective or near Cawl and take shots against important targets.
If I went for naked vanguards, I could probably drop a dragoon (since I only really need one for mobility and tying up shooty vehicles and other ranged units) and have 2 dakkastelans and 2 fist kastelans, or I could sacrifice the extra melee threat and reliable AV and go all in with 4 dakkastelans. At least there's some reasonable options.
2017/08/01 12:13:05
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
rvd1ofakind wrote: What other nice canticles? Shroudpsalm is the only one that will be good always. Others are niche. I usually roll for it after I choose it turn 1 unless I have multiple units in CC (since half of our buffs are CC related for some reason...), the re-roll 1s in shooting is irrelevant due to cawl and I don't even remember the 6th one off the top of my head showing how awful it is.
Edit: lol morale, sure mate
Because a good chunk of our army is CC-oriented. Sicarians, Fulgurites, Cawl, Dominus, Fistelans for those who want. Cawl's bubble is not 30" wide so yes it have a use. There's a canticle to reroll failed Morale tests too.
What "lol morale, sure mate" ? I'm getting tired of your latent passive-aggressive tone that's gone on for as long as I remember in this thread, don't know if I'm the only one but whatever, thinking you own the universal truth about how the army works. It's not encouraging to have an argument about 40k with people like you.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/08/01 12:23:18
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
rvd1ofakind wrote: What other nice canticles? Shroudpsalm is the only one that will be good always. Others are niche. I usually roll for it after I choose it turn 1 unless I have multiple units in CC (since half of our buffs are CC related for some reason...), the re-roll 1s in shooting is irrelevant due to cawl and I don't even remember the 6th one off the top of my head showing how awful it is.
Edit: lol morale, sure mate
Because a good chunk of our army is CC-oriented. Sicarians, Fulgurites, Cawl, Dominus, Fistelans for those who want. Cawl's bubble is not 30" wide so yes it have a use. There's a canticle to reroll failed Morale tests too.
What "lol morale, sure mate" ? I'm getting tired of your latent passive-aggressive tone that's gone on for as long as I remember in this thread, don't know if I'm the only one but whatever, thinking you own the universal truth about how the army works. It's not encouraging to have an argument about 40k with people like you.
The last bit was mocking the one canticle I forgot for how utterly terrible it is. What, are you going to predict you will fail morale tests on your opponents turn? That'll just make decisions easier for him to just finish off every unit. Also morale is almost a non-factor for AdMech because of how small units are model wise. You only fail on a 6 or 5 at worst.
And our CC orientated units are all worse than other armies due to 0 mobility and survivability. Mobility/Survivability is actually a lot more important than damage for CC units. Index AdMech wants to sit and shoot and that's it. That may well change in the Codex but for now our CC unts are a complete joke.
Also I've yet to shoot a single relevant gun(read "Phosphor"/"Neutron"/"Icarus"/"Sniper rifle") not in range of Cawl
Also I'm active-agressive against what I consider to be bad advice for players reading a thread.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/01 12:32:31
I don't really want to run lots of blandguard, but they came in my starter boxes and you guys keep mentioning how important screening is and deep strike protection.
Im definitely building the 5man ranger squad with the two sniper rifles
I have 2 crawlers one neutron one icarus
I am picking up some fulgurites instead of rust stalkers for some counter charge and melee blobbing.
I kind of want a unity of kastellans+datasmith setup dakka style just because I like the models even
I also sort of want to run a knight crusader eventually for the same reason
I like the idea of the deepstrike infiltrators or scions. I should probably play with what I have before I buy too much stuff tho
2017/08/01 15:37:21
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Aaranis wrote: The more I think about it the more I believe our troops are severely overcosted. 10 pts/model for a Vanguard compared to a 7 pts Kabalite Warrior:
Kabalite: 7" Move, WS 3+, BS 3+, T3, 1W, 1 Attack (2 for sergeant), Ld 7 (8 for sergeant), 5+ save and 6+++ from turn one.
Vanguard/Ranger: 6" Move, WS 4+, BS 3+, T3, 1W, 1 Attack (2 for sergeant), Ld 6 (7 for sergeant), 4+/6++ saves
So we are paying 3 pts more per model for what, a better save ? I wouldn't even call it better because the Kabalite have a mean to ignore mortal wounds and we don't. What's more, the Kabalite can buy more special weapons and embark on a transport whereas we don't yet. They even fight better in CC.
Same thing for Fire Warriors, 8 pts/model, but they have WS 5+ and BS4+, but have a way better way to deal with Morale and better base guns than us. For a 4+ save too.
Really hoping they will lower points value for our troops, or at least give us Forge-World tactics or stratagems that allow us to buff them like the old Imperatives.
I hear you and have said the same thing on Bolter and Chainsword about the skitarii. though the cabalite warriors are a good example I have yet to think of. for me and the local GW power level is the main deciding factor for pick up games, and even there where all upgrades are technically free the skitarii fail when compared to guard.
for example we really need screening for our heavy tanks and vehicles, and the blandguard are 8 PL for 10 guys with all the problems you have listed... when for 5 PL we can get 20 conscripts with a commisar backing them up, giving us a screen of admitting useless infantry that is made for it's job... standing in front of an oncoming tide of genestealers or giving us a bubble wrap against deep-strikers. Sure, they will get slaughtered, but for one power more than a squad of five guys you can really see how it would be a good addition in place of the vanguard, right? it also gives us at least 3 PL that we can invest in with an IG infantry squad, giving us 10 more bodies, a HWT / Special weapon, and filling out another troop slot.
plus, with the edition change a rad-carbine is basically a lasgun trying to overcompensate.
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
2017/08/01 19:41:15
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus 2.0 - Deus Est Machina! - Summaries Online
Vanguard x5 no upgrades
Vanguard x 5 no upgrades
Rangers X 5 no upgrades (didnt have another 5 vanguard models, didnt want to buy more)
Rangers X5, 2 Arquebus, omnispex
Fulgurite Priests X10
Datasmith
Kastellan X3, phosphor/phosphor
Dunecrawler - Neutron/stubber, smoke
Dunecrawler - Icarrus/Smoke
Knight Crusader - Gatling/Battle Cannon, Stubber x2, heavy flamer
3000
4000 
