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 Aaranis wrote:
Hmm funny, I always thought the Sicarians to be worth it. Infiltrators can just shoot so much they can be useful against light-armoured opponents, and they can still dish out loads of attack with the Goads. The Ruststalkers I've used only a few times since I bought them recently, but I'm really satisfied from them. Twice they were able to counter a 3-man squad of Terminators deep-striking behind me. They put out a lot of attacks and with a little luck, a lot of 6's to Wound for the mortal wounds. Always played them with Razors + Chordclaws.

The Fulgurites are indeed really nice and cheap enough that you're not angry when they die. They finished off a 4 Wounds Deceiver last game on the charge and then became a Gauss-magnet for the whole turn. They died but tanked really good with the 3++ and that's a lot of fire my other flimsy units weren't getting.

I should clarify, as my post does say borderline worthless, I should expand. They and in and of themselves aren't terrible. However, when placed next to infiltrators and elecetropreists who both do their job and more for slightly more (infiltrators) or even fewer points (electropreists), means there is no good reason to take these models over the other two. And woe to the fool who takes two trazsonic blades instead of the chord claw.

If we were given dunestrider back and a change to the tranzsonic blades/razors I'd say theyd be worth taking, but as in, I personally cannot see any reason to take them. Pay 3 pts more per model to get Infiltrators who can be anywhere on the board at any point you please and have good range capability and can specialise in anti swarm or anti armored. Or take electropreists if you want a powerful melee unit to dish out mortal wounds.

Ruststalkers with blades.... Can attack at S6 with no AP for a single turn... If you give them cantiles... And cause a mortal wound on a 6... But Disco sticks are S5 ap-2 Dd3 and cause D3 mortal wounds and are more survivable than rustalkers.... and are cheaper. That is what I mean by theming being boarderline uesless, they are overshadowed in everyway by their sister models the infitrators and their cousins electropreists.

 Tsol wrote:
I should clarify, as my post does say borderline worthless, I should expand. They and in and of themselves aren't terrible. However, when placed next to infiltrators and elecetropreists who both do their job and more for slightly more (infiltrators) or even fewer points (electropreists), means there is no good reason to take these models over the other two. And woe to the fool who takes two trazsonic blades instead of the chord claw.

If we were given dunestrider back and a change to the tranzsonic blades/razors I'd say theyd be worth taking, but as in, I personally cannot see any reason to take them. Pay 3 pts more per model to get Infiltrators who can be anywhere on the board at any point you please and have good range capability and can specialise in anti swarm or anti armored. Or take electropreists if you want a powerful melee unit to dish out mortal wounds.

Ruststalkers with blades.... Can attack at S6 with no AP for a single turn... If you give them cantiles... And cause a mortal wound on a 6... But Disco sticks are S5 ap-2 Dd3 and cause D3 mortal wounds and are more survivable than rustalkers.... and are cheaper. That is what I mean by theming being boarderline uesless, they are overshadowed in everyway by their sister models the infitrators and their cousins electropreists.

They're more survivable if they get their 3++, otherwise they're still 1W each while your Ruststalkers have to take two wounds before dying and so you can fail two saves and still have loads of attacks. I've found if you're unlucky in rolling 5+ your five Priests might as well die to Poxwalkers. I agree that they should be taken in squads of 10 for a more optimal use however, that way you still pack some punch despite a few losses, whereas losing 1-2 models in a minimum unit is a serious hit to your offensive abilities.

I like Ruststalkers to defend the backline because they're faster and so can cover distance more easily when I need to save a unit of mine about to get charged, while I keep the Priest hidden in the front to charge through a wall when the opponent is close enough.

I've not given the Electropriests a go yet, partly to do with how fething expensive they are, and the fact I'm still in the mindset of needing to pull off the old 4-Turns of Charging shenanigans you had to in 7th:
In go the Infiltrators, then the Ironstriders, then the Ruststalkers, and then you dare show the Priests and get them stuck in.

Unless you spammed the living daylights out of the blue dudes, I never imagined them getting the job done.
Much to say that I've never even seen them fielded, nor even in Batreps.

Sounds like they're a bit more reliable now, though? Thinking it might be worth taking a few to use as gunline defence, as the rest of you seem to be doing.

I think inquisitor has the inquisitorial authority rule that lets them use any transport

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Sigh, guess I might as well ask here...

Purple, Green or Red. Infantry; Flying infantry.

I don't think it's purple because of this:
Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot completely end its move on a floor of ruins when attempting to scale the walls?
A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome guidelines in the core rules to identify with your opponent where your model’s actual location is.

I'm mostly inclined to believe it's 9'' FLY or not, because of this clip:
https://clips.twitch.tv/AverageAliveNostrilCeilingCat

Sort of a YMDC question, but I would say table distance plus vertical distance.

There is a related FAQ for this:

Q: How do vertical distances work for movement and measurements?
A: All distances are measured in three dimensions, so if a unit moves over a hill or scales a wall, the horizontal distance and vertical distance combined cannot exceed its Movement characteristic. This means that in order to traverse across an obstacle, you must move up to the top of that obstacle, move across the top of it, then move down it.

I got some time in with the Dragoons today. Love them! Definitely a niche unit, but their mobility was invaluable. They were often ignored and when they weren't the Incense, Shroudpsalm, and T6 was enough to keep them rolling. They were good at clearing out weaker units and jumping onto objectives. Really satisfied with them. The Arquebus Rangers aren't impressing me. The AP means that the wounds rarely go through. Might opt out of Skitarii entirely now that I have three of my Dragoons painted.

Also, Infiltrators also did a solid job today. Taking distant objectives, linebreaking, and shooting up weak units. Similar to the Dragoons, but different. Really a useful unit.

Next thing I want to get more time with is the Fulgurites. Haven't had a chance to get them into melee yet. Really, really hoping we get Fires of Cyraxus before Christmas. I really would love some Triaros to haul them around with. Finding the army a bit tiring to play - just a static gunline mostly. Not particularly riveting to play.

 Aaranis wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
I should clarify, as my post does say borderline worthless, I should expand. They and in and of themselves aren't terrible. However, when placed next to infiltrators and elecetropreists who both do their job and more for slightly more (infiltrators) or even fewer points (electropreists), means there is no good reason to take these models over the other two. And woe to the fool who takes two trazsonic blades instead of the chord claw.

If we were given dunestrider back and a change to the tranzsonic blades/razors I'd say theyd be worth taking, but as in, I personally cannot see any reason to take them. Pay 3 pts more per model to get Infiltrators who can be anywhere on the board at any point you please and have good range capability and can specialise in anti swarm or anti armored. Or take electropreists if you want a powerful melee unit to dish out mortal wounds.

Ruststalkers with blades.... Can attack at S6 with no AP for a single turn... If you give them cantiles... And cause a mortal wound on a 6... But Disco sticks are S5 ap-2 Dd3 and cause D3 mortal wounds and are more survivable than rustalkers.... and are cheaper. That is what I mean by theming being boarderline uesless, they are overshadowed in everyway by their sister models the infitrators and their cousins electropreists.

They're more survivable if they get their 3++, otherwise they're still 1W each while your Ruststalkers have to take two wounds before dying and so you can fail two saves and still have loads of attacks. I've found if you're unlucky in rolling 5+ your five Priests might as well die to Poxwalkers. I agree that they should be taken in squads of 10 for a more optimal use however, that way you still pack some punch despite a few losses, whereas losing 1-2 models in a minimum unit is a serious hit to your offensive abilities.

I like Ruststalkers to defend the backline because they're faster and so can cover distance more easily when I need to save a unit of mine about to get charged, while I keep the Priest hidden in the front to charge through a wall when the opponent is close enough.

Its sad, because I love the models. In 7th I played a 5 man squad of each of the rust stalkers and infiltrators variants just because I thought they were so cool looking. They were overcosted but still good, if a bit squishy. This edition they are realativly cheap, I think its 100pts for five if my memory serves, for the chordclad razor combo. But for 100 points I personaly, would rather more Vanguard, or I'd pay the extra 20 points to just take infiltrators. Though if I wanted a defender unit, I would never take the sicarians over the electropreists. Admittedly this is preference but I'll explain why. For 100 points you get a five man squad of Ruststalkers, T3 4+/6++ 2 wounds. Mildly fast, S4 ap 0, 3 attacks and has an above average chance to cause a few mortal wounds. Or if I spend 160 points I can get 10 Discosticks, T3, 10 wounds, 2 attacks at S5 AP-2 Dd3 and same chance (other than less attacks) to cause mortal wounds. Plus their 5++/5+++ save. I have noticed that many people think a 4+ save is better than a 5++/5+++. It is not, the latter is statistically better and more akin to a 3+ save (being generious with fractions). Plus their added bonus of cauisng mortal wounds on the charge and if they kill an enemy unit in melee get an astonishing 3++/5++. Which honestly wont help you, as your opponent will focus fire the crap out of them until they all die, but hey, everything shooting at them, is not shooting at the rest of your stuff. This is why I cannot see myself ever taking sicarians for competitive reasons, other than, they look cool.

Though as you've said, I too have pretty much only used ruststalkers as a second defensive line, though they have underperformed in each game. This should be noted I most (currently) am playing against Space Marines, Chaos and 1ksuns.

And I agree as well. Despite what many people are saying in this thread, I think taking minimum units is a poor idea for Admech unless your goal is MSU. You need the bodies for the extra firepower to keep your units functional. Admech has lost much of its staying power in this edition. A flat 6++ although nice, is objectivly worse, than the old 6+++


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I've not given the Electropriests a go yet, partly to do with how fething expensive they are, and the fact I'm still in the mindset of needing to pull off the old 4-Turns of Charging shenanigans you had to in 7th:
In go the Infiltrators, then the Ironstriders, then the Ruststalkers, and then you dare show the Priests and get them stuck in.

Unless you spammed the living daylights out of the blue dudes, I never imagined them getting the job done.
Much to say that I've never even seen them fielded, nor even in Batreps.

Sounds like they're a bit more reliable now, though? Thinking it might be worth taking a few to use as gunline defence, as the rest of you seem to be doing.

I never even considered using them in 7th. They were laughably bad. In this new edition, they've gone up in points, but their abilities easily make up for them. However, they still suffer the same weakness a 5++/5++ is not bad, but also not reliable. Positioning these mooks is key; hiding them behind line of sight, or keeping better targets available to keep fire off them. The good news is, their save is so bad (0) that you never need to worry about putting them in cover, as it will never be better than your 5++. The Jazzhands are tough for the first few times, because ideally, you want a dominus next to them. His rerolls of 1 are best used with these guys (or canticles). since they will be hitting on a 3+ reroll 1s and explode into 2 extra hits on 6s. I always take at least 10 in a squad and when they fire I more often then not, get more hits than I originally rolled. Usually around 36 hits from the 30 shots. This is even more absurd if they are near Cawl. Their high strength of 5 but no AP makes them great at killing anything not a vehicle. As termies will die from sheer dice rolls, and marines or anything lighter cannot possibly pass that many armor saves. It can be difficult to manuver them though, as they will fall to both small arms fire and big arms, though you might be surprised how much they may take with a bit of luck. Harder still once your opponents learn of their firepower, they will be gunning for them, making their deployment and positioning even more important for later games.

Discosticks, don't always do much for me. This is not a fault of their own, but all my regular opponents have fought them and lost to them and now go nowhere near them. They kill marines, guardsmen, and terminators with equal efficiency. They can kill dreadnaughts and Chaos lords with relative ease. However, they are relativly slow and with no transports, you can't rely on running these guys up the board unless your opponent doesn't know what they are capable of, and ignores them. They are thus best used to defend your best shooty stuff from melee harm. An ideal countercharge unit which can kill just about anything, and if it does, suddenly becomes one of the most hard to kill units in the game. Again, I recommend squads of 10 like the Jazzhands, however, these guys can still do well in just 5 man squads.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I got some time in with the Dragoons today. Love them! Definitely a niche unit, but their mobility was invaluable. They were often ignored and when they weren't the Incense, Shroudpsalm, and T6 was enough to keep them rolling. They were good at clearing out weaker units and jumping onto objectives. Really satisfied with them. The Arquebus Rangers aren't impressing me. The AP means that the wounds rarely go through. Might opt out of Skitarii entirely now that I have three of my Dragoons painted.

Also, Infiltrators also did a solid job today. Taking distant objectives, linebreaking, and shooting up weak units. Similar to the Dragoons, but different. Really a useful unit.

Next thing I want to get more time with is the Fulgurites. Haven't had a chance to get them into melee yet. Really, really hoping we get Fires of Cyraxus before Christmas. I really would love some Triaros to haul them around with. Finding the army a bit tiring to play - just a static gunline mostly. Not particularly riveting to play.

As I have stated numerous times, Dragoons aren't the greatest unit on paper, but their role is indispensable. They give us the mobility necessary in a progressive objective game; because there's no point to good artillery if nothing can hold the ground that the guns clear.

And yeah, even I think the Arquebus Rangers aren't too great. The real problem is that they can't kill Commissars fast enough to make a difference.

If you do need Deep Strike and unit deletion, maybe try a Patrol detachment of Plasma Scions?

Patrol Detachment - 166

HQ - 40
1x Tempestor Prime - Tempestus Command Rod, Chainsword

Troop - 62
1x Tempestor - Hot-shot Laspistol, Chainsword
2x Militarum Tempestus Scions - 2x Plasma Gun
2x Militarum Tempestus Scions - 2x Hot-shot Lasgun

Elite - 64
4x Militarum Tempestus Scions - 4x Plasma Gun

Since this is the tactics corner, Id like you to invite into some tactics discussion. I will be playing an RT next weekend. 1850, its Maelstrom and Eternal War combined, old "who goes first" rules. This is my list:


Since all lists are released, we got a good chance of just talking about real tactics here. And maybe give me some kind of ideas on how to handle things.
Lets start with the oh so glorious Smurf parking lot



I think my chances rely heavily on the deployment zones. Whether or not I have the chance that the Assbacks are able to fire efficiently in the first round and if my knight dies to all those freaking lasershots.

@Iago40k
Is the 585 point Crusader non-negotiable? Because that's a third of your army in points...

Maybe go with a TC+Avenger Crusader or a Stormspear+Gauntlet Warden instead?

Suzuteo wrote:
@Iago40k
Is the 585 point Crusader non-negotiable? Because that's a third of your army in points...

Maybe go with a TC+Avenger Crusader or a Stormspear+Gauntlet Warden instead?

Nope, the list is final. hadnt had time to paint up more Onager or Kastellans and wanted to try out the knight. He can be a liability, sure. But I have to work with what I got. On the other hand: He has great output and brings some melee capabilities to the table which AdMech is lacking.

Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I got some time in with the Dragoons today. Love them! Definitely a niche unit, but their mobility was invaluable. They were often ignored and when they weren't the Incense, Shroudpsalm, and T6 was enough to keep them rolling. They were good at clearing out weaker units and jumping onto objectives. Really satisfied with them. The Arquebus Rangers aren't impressing me. The AP means that the wounds rarely go through. Might opt out of Skitarii entirely now that I have three of my Dragoons painted.

Also, Infiltrators also did a solid job today. Taking distant objectives, linebreaking, and shooting up weak units. Similar to the Dragoons, but different. Really a useful unit.

Next thing I want to get more time with is the Fulgurites. Haven't had a chance to get them into melee yet. Really, really hoping we get Fires of Cyraxus before Christmas. I really would love some Triaros to haul them around with. Finding the army a bit tiring to play - just a static gunline mostly. Not particularly riveting to play.

As I have stated numerous times, Dragoons aren't the greatest unit on paper, but their role is indispensable. They give us the mobility necessary in a progressive objective game; because there's no point to good artillery if nothing can hold the ground that the guns clear.

And yeah, even I think the Arquebus Rangers aren't too great. The real problem is that they can't kill Commissars fast enough to make a difference.

If you do need Deep Strike and unit deletion, maybe try a Patrol detachment of Plasma Scions?

Patrol Detachment - 166

HQ - 40
1x Tempestor Prime - Tempestus Command Rod, Chainsword

Troop - 62
1x Tempestor - Hot-shot Laspistol, Chainsword
2x Militarum Tempestus Scions - 2x Plasma Gun
2x Militarum Tempestus Scions - 2x Hot-shot Lasgun

Elite - 64
4x Militarum Tempestus Scions - 4x Plasma Gun

Currently not going outside of faction, but I most likely will tinker with Scions eventually. Good models, would be fun to paint and add visual variety to my army.

Iago40k wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
@Iago40k
Is the 585 point Crusader non-negotiable? Because that's a third of your army in points...

Maybe go with a TC+Avenger Crusader or a Stormspear+Gauntlet Warden instead?

Nope, the list is final. hadnt had time to paint up more Onager or Kastellans and wanted to try out the knight. He can be a liability, sure. But I have to work with what I got. On the other hand: He has great output and brings some melee capabilities to the table which AdMech is lacking.

I see. And yes, I agree with you that a Knight solves a lot of problems. He is anti-tank, anti-horde, and melee rolled up into one super-heavy, high mobility package.

As for your strategy against the Razorback list, you're pretty much just looking to do a few things:
1. Outshoot your opponent. You have range on him, so use it. Be sure to concentrate fire on embarked Razorbacks with your Neutron Crawlers; look for lucky failed emergency disembarks. Protect the Neutron Crawlers at all costs. Everything else should be aiming at disembarked MEQs.
2. Tie up his Razorbacks in CC with your Dragoon, Knights, even Cawl himself (remember, your Crawlers can move and shoot, so if they are getting too close, have them scoot backward and have Cawl charge forward). Keep in mind though that Razorbacks are bricks with shooting that you cannot ignore. Tying them down in CC while your artillery shoots the MEQs is more important than eliminating them outright, which takes much longer. Remember, no need to deploy defensively to block Deep Strike; deploy aggressively with all of your Dragoons and Knights at the end of the deployment zone and everything else as far back as possible.
3. Try to use terrain to make disembarking difficult; they have to disembark all of 5 MEQs at the start of the Movement phase within 3" of the Razorback, but 1" away from your Dragoons and Knight while leaving enough room for the Razorback to fall back. In close quarters, this can be really tough.

Suzuteo wrote:

Iago40k wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
@Iago40k
Is the 585 point Crusader non-negotiable? Because that's a third of your army in points...

Maybe go with a TC+Avenger Crusader or a Stormspear+Gauntlet Warden instead?

Nope, the list is final. hadnt had time to paint up more Onager or Kastellans and wanted to try out the knight. He can be a liability, sure. But I have to work with what I got. On the other hand: He has great output and brings some melee capabilities to the table which AdMech is lacking.

I see. And yes, I agree with you that a Knight solves a lot of problems. He is anti-tank, anti-horde, and melee rolled up into one super-heavy, high mobility package.

As for your strategy against the Razorback list, you're pretty much just looking to do a few things:
1. Outshoot your opponent. You have range on him, so use it. Be sure to concentrate fire on embarked Razorbacks with your Neutron Crawlers; look for lucky failed emergency disembarks. Protect the Neutron Crawlers at all costs. Everything else should be aiming at disembarked MEQs.
2. Tie up his Razorbacks in CC with your Dragoon, Knights, even Cawl himself (remember, your Crawlers can move and shoot, so if they are getting too close, have them scoot backward and have Cawl charge forward). Keep in mind though that Razorbacks are bricks with shooting that you cannot ignore. Tying them down in CC while your artillery shoots the MEQs is more important than eliminating them outright, which takes much longer. Remember, no need to deploy defensively to block Deep Strike; deploy aggressively with all of your Dragoons and Knights at the end of the deployment zone and everything else as far back as possible.
3. Try to use terrain to make disembarking difficult; they have to disembark all of 5 MEQs at the start of the Movement phase within 3" of the Razorback, but 1" away from your Dragoons and Knight while leaving enough room for the Razorback to fall back. In close quarters, this can be really tough.

Those are some great times. Thank you. I think one of the most important choices in every game is to decide when and if you are going forward with your walkers and Cawl. But you got some great points. I think I can work with those. I played a parking lot once but not with a knight in my list, instead I had 4 Onagers, 4 Dragoons and some more Kastellans. But as stated, the knight gives a lot of melee punch plus great shooting.

Okay, the next list is way trickier for me, since I never played Tau Commander spam. List goes like this



I really have to try to get the commanders to drop out of range to secure my Artillery but other than that I am not sure what to do and what shennanigans I have to watch out for.

Guess what armies I have... You guessed it: AdMech, Imperial Knights(1 for warcon :p) and Daemons. Boy, I must have lucked out.
Although daemons are fine-ish now. Characters + cheap troops = best transport

Iago40k wrote:
Those are some great times. Thank you. I think one of the most important choices in every game is to decide when and if you are going forward with your walkers and Cawl. But you got some great points. I think I can work with those. I played a parking lot once but not with a knight in my list, instead I had 4 Onagers, 4 Dragoons and some more Kastellans. But as stated, the knight gives a lot of melee punch plus great shooting.

Okay, the next list is way trickier for me, since I never played Tau Commander spam. List goes like this

Spoiler:

+++ CommanderTau (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [92 PL, 1848pts] +++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [40 PL, 683pts] ++

+ HQ +
Commander [7 PL, 172pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Missile pod, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Commander [7 PL, 172pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Missile pod, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Honour blade

+ Fast Attack +
Tactical Drones [4 PL, 48pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 48pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 48pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV4 Shield Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 50pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 50pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

Tactical Drones [4 PL, 50pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone, MV7 Marker Drone

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [28 PL, 656pts] ++
+ HQ +
Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone

Commander [7 PL, 164pts]: 4x Cyclic ion blaster, 2x MV1 Gun Drone


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [24 PL, 509pts] ++
+ HQ +
Commander [6 PL, 153pts]: Drone controller, 3x Missile pod [WARLORD]+1 Leadership

Commander [7 PL, 172pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Missile pod, 2x MV1 Gun Drone
+ Elites +
Firesight Marksman [1 PL, 24pts]: Markerlight
Firesight Marksman [1 PL, 24pts]: Markerlight

Firesight Marksman [1 PL, 24pts]: Markerlight

+ Fast Attack +
Tactical Drones [4 PL, 56pts]: 5x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
Tactical Drones [4 PL, 56pts]: 5x MV1 Gun Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone

I really have to try to get the commanders to drop out of range to secure my Artillery but other than that I am not sure what to do and what shennanigans I have to watch out for.

Eh... you might struggle because you have only one Icarus and the "first to deploy, first to move" rule, but that's not even the scariest Tau list. No Stealth Battlesuits, Coldstars, or Quad Fusion Commanders. Homing Beacons can drop an army right in your lap. Coldstar Commanders can rush your Kastelans by advancing 40" through your screen, shoot their AC and then punch your Kastelans. You can't fall back the next round, so the Coldstars are safe. The next turn, they fall back, then shoot again or just sit there. The counter to this, of course, is to stay in Aegis mode; your Icarus Crawlers are your main threat to them anyway. Most competitive lists I see have a pair of Quad Fusion Commanders. They will quite literally melt your Knight, and they synergize with the Stealth Battlesuits really well.

Anyhow, most AdMech vs. Tau matches are just both sides taking turns shooting at one another (with the Tau moving under cover). You're going to want to:
1. Force them to come into the range of your guns. Tau durability is not amazing, and as long as you can outrange them, you can outshoot them. Include as many objectives as you can within the radius of your guns.
2. Deny them area to maneuver. Deploy your Dragoons and Dragoons Knights sideways and 18" away from your Kastelans, which in turn are no more than 12" from your Crawlers (usually very close, actually, unless you are in H&A), which are in turn no more than 9" from the board edge (usually right up against it). This prevents battlesuits from deep striking, and it also forces them to move past your Dragoons' bases in order to attack with their CIC. Every bit of distance counts; 26" is the magic distance here, as this is as far as a Commander with CIC can threaten you, with a Dragoon base, this number becomes somewhere between 29 and 30". Also spread out your infantry in the same area.
3. Don't bother trying to engage them in CC or playing the mobile game the first few turns unless they get too close. Every Tau and his mom flies and has good move, so if anything gets isolated, it's going to die. Be patient and force them to come to you.
4. Clear Drones purposefully. You have to clear these guys to get to the Commanders, but figure out which units are going to be the biggest threat and clear those Drones first.
5. You can pretty much ignore their Devilfish and Fire Warriors. It will take them forever to get in range, and they take forever to kill any of the important vehicles with our repair. As for Markerlights, if they want to mark you, they will. Focus on removing their big guns from the board so that when they do shoot, it won't hurt nearly as much as your return fire.

as always it seems that deployment zones are very critical. Frontline Assault and Dawn of War will lead to a disaster I reckon. At least the chances are pretty good that I get first turn so I have to deploy as such and get in a position from where I can advance into positions that will block the majority of his drops.

Gents,

Apologies for interrupting, I started a Steel Legion/Skitarii army in 7th Edition and was proud enough to get some painting done. The idea was to have mechanized IG with the Skitariis added, however, in 8th Edition my cool idea of many Chimeras and LRBT as core seems to have drowned.

Neverheless, trying to make use of the models now, what would you prefer as screening units if you have IG and AM available? Vanguard (incl. Bonus from Cawl and Canticles) or simply an Infantery Squad?

I'm trying to avoid conscripts and scions because I don't want to paint huge amounts of new soldiers now just to see them get nerfed sooner than later and also I do like to keep the mechanized theme up as much as possible.

In extension, as everybody mentions the need for Dragoons to offer a mobile option, would a Hellhound or a Veteran/Infantrysquad in a Chimera do the job better?

Thanks for any answers in advance.

AwesomeJester wrote:
Gents,

Apologies for interrupting, I started a Steel Legion/Skitarii army in 7th Edition and was proud enough to get some painting done. The idea was to have mechanized IG with the Skitariis added, however, in 8th Edition my cool idea of many Chimeras and LRBT as core seems to have drowned.

Neverheless, trying to make use of the models now, what would you prefer as screening units if you have IG and AM available? Vanguard (incl. Bonus from Cawl and Canticles) or simply an Infantery Squad?

I'm trying to avoid conscripts because I don't want to paint huge amounts of soldiers now just to see them get nerfed sooner than later and also I do like to keep the mechanized theme up as much as possible.

In extension, as everybody mentions the need for Dragoons to offer a mobile option, would a Hellhound or a Veteran/Infantrysquad in a Chimera do the job better?

Thanks for any answers in advance.

In my opinion, Conscripts and Dragoons are the "best" screening choices. The former, when combined with a Commissar and/or Celestine, are a huge brick to block people with. The downside, of course, is that you pretty much can't play the progressive objective game with them, and you would be committing to tabling your opponent. (When Guard armies do the Conscript block plus artillery combo, the other half of their army is usually nothing but Scions and Tauroxes.)

I use Dragoons as my screen. I usually pair them to make them harder to kill, but not so large as to make moving through terrain difficult. My army is 100% mechanized--zero infantry aside from HQs and the Datasmith.

A veteran squad in a Chimera is much more expensive than a Dragoon, and they are not too great in CC. That being said, they would be mobile, though again, Scions in Tauroxes with Deep Strike are preferable.

Whats the minimum number of dragoons you have to have to run a decent screen?

Note that I only own around 1400-1500 pts total and thats IF you count some scions

I have 1250 pts of AM if you count Cawl and I am running a battalion which means I am taking the Techpriest Dominus also

Which on another note should I not do that and take a different detachment type?

I havent even assembled the scions yet but was planning to run the command squad 4 plasma, normal scions unit 2 plasma, and the tempestor prime with command rod (but he can only do one command per group per turn right?)

And was considering running the Taurox Prime as a gunboat with the hot shot lasers and the gatling cannon. Maybe it could work as a screening unit until I have dragoons?

Also what HQ options do we have for being able to take assassins into our detachments? I saw mention of the Inquisitors like Greyfax

Jaynen wrote:
Whats the minimum number of dragoons you have to have to run a decent screen?

Note that I only own around 1400-1500 pts total and thats IF you count some scions

I have 1250 pts of AM if you count Cawl and I am running a battalion which means I am taking the Techpriest Dominus also

Which on another note should I not do that and take a different detachment type?

I havent even assembled the scions yet but was planning to run the command squad 4 plasma, normal scions unit 2 plasma, and the tempestor prime with command rod (but he can only do one command per group per turn right?)

And was considering running the Taurox Prime as a gunboat with the hot shot lasers and the gatling cannon. Maybe it could work as a screening unit until I have dragoons?

Also what HQ options do we have for being able to take assassins into our detachments? I saw mention of the Inquisitors like Greyfax

The minimum that I would recommend is 2x2. In my experience, you ideally want three units of Dragoons with a Knight, four without. Though I suppose this depends on other factors. A unit of Scions, for example, can replace a unit of Dragoons.

I would advise against the Battalion. You don't need to pay that Dominus tax, and Dragoons can replace Vanguard. You also can't run Scions in that detachment without taking away Canticles, which makes your Dragoons a lot squishier.

My scions are not in the battalion they are in a patrol. Only my AM stuff was in the battalion detachment.

I have 15 blandguard
5 rangers with 2 arqs
5 fulgurites
Cawl
Dominus
2 Kastellans
Data Tech Priest dude
1 Neutron Onager
1 Icarus Onager
(two starter boxes plus robots and cawl fulgurites)

I got in my last league game yesterday - 2000pt against Dark Eldar - which is not a good match-up for them, generally. Poison isn't doing much to my army, although all those Dark Lances do some heavy lifting. It was a pretty savage win (30 VP to 10 VP). I started the game by knocking out one of his flyers on T1 with my Icarus array and blasting at least two "boats" a turn pretty reliably with Neutronagers. The Dragoons proved useful again - very mobile and good for what they do. I did get my Fulgurites into combat for the first time... and they didn't kill the unit. Of course, I did forget to roll for my 6's to get d3 mortal wounds, because it was late and I was tired. So that was probably why! I think they are a solid choice, because they were my counter-assault unit and did exactly that. My Rangers against didn't do much. The Arquebus leaves a lot to be desired. I likely won't be taking them in my non-League lists. Infiltrators did some solid lifting too - came in, blasted a unit that got its transport wrecked, managed to get into combat (!) and wipe them out. Tasers proved pretty solid with that many attacks, because I got so many extra attacks and volume of attacks is always good. I did get charged by a dedicated CC unit after one of his characters went (who he thought would wipe the unit), I did a Counter-Offensive and hit back pretty hard. Not hard enough to kill the Incubi, but hey... it was worth a shot!

Anyhow, I am likely going to take a bit of a break after the tourney and wait for the Codex to hit. I expect our Robots will jump to 150 each, at least. Hopefully the Kataphrons come down to make up for that and we get back some variety.

I will post up an overview of the tournament Sunday. I was only really gunning for "Best Painted", but if I place in the Top 3 for game results, I will be pleased.

I have a Cawl question, He can only use the hive once per round but does it consume one of this 4 attacks?

IE 1 hive attack 3 others in melee?

Jaynen wrote:
I have a Cawl question, He can only use the hive once per round but does it consume one of this 4 attacks?

IE 1 hive attack 3 others in melee?

That is how I interpret it.

Jaynen wrote:
I have a Cawl question, He can only use the hive once per round but does it consume one of this 4 attacks?

IE 1 hive attack 3 others in melee?

I think there is actually a lot of debate over this sort of thing with Scything Talons, Tails, and Chainswords.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/06/40k-bonus-attacks-rules-conundrum.html

After reading a lot of stuff, I personally am torn. I actually think you don't need to use the Hive to get the bonus attacks (so you can do 4 Axe hits and 2D6 Hive hits). That is how the Space Wolves have been playing with Chainswords anyway...

IMO the use of the word 'fight' is the important part.

'each time this model fights'

not 'attacks'

My interpretation is you select Cawl to fight, he gets his 4 attacks normally, as well as the 2d6 mechadendrite hive attacks.

You only ever fight once with a model, even if they have multiple attacks and multiple weapons, unless you have a stratagem or similar that lets you do it twice.

To the rules of Cawl:
I would actually be lost to understand why the hive uses up an attack.

It "clearly" (well...not) states that each time he fights he can make the attacks, I don't see a connection to his base attacks here as he makes "additional attacks". If it would use an attack you might as well start arguing he can use the hive four times and utilize all attacks for it?


With regard to mixing IG and AM forces:
Is there actually any unit except Scions and Conscripts the IG offers to AM which does a better job than the available AM option and screams to be included? I keep looking at all options and somehow end up with a very AM dominant army every time, especially as I don't see an outstanding way to add a full IG detachment of any kind without making a bad choice.

AwesomeJester wrote:
To the rules of Cawl:
I would actually be lost to understand why the hive uses up an attack.

It "clearly" (well...not) states that each time he fights he can make the attacks, I don't see a connection to his base attacks here as he makes "additional attacks". If it would use an attack you might as well start arguing he can use the hive four times and utilize all attacks for it?


With regard to mixing IG and AM forces:
Is there actually any unit except Scions and Conscripts the IG offers to AM which does a better job than the available AM option and screams to be included? I keep looking at all options and somehow end up with a very AM dominant army every time, especially as I don't see an outstanding way to add a full IG detachment of any kind without making a bad choice.

Yeah. So 4 attacks + 2D6 Hive attacks.

In addition to Conscripts and Scions, you have Sisters of Battle with Celestine; Ultramarines with Girlyman; Dante with Stormravens; Greyfax or Primaris Psyker with Astropaths; and maybe Inquisitors with Acolytes (it was hilarious how they originally had 2 attacks and 3 wounds for 10 points; it's now 1 wound, but still 2 attacks).

The reason I would think it might be 3 attacks and only 1 with the hive would be because under the fight/weapons rule it says a unit gets the number of attacks it gets on its stat sheet and can choose a weapon per attack.

The hive itself is listed under "weapons" not under special rules

Similar to some of the other weapons like missiles which say you can only use this weapon once per turn

I've got a Scions Unit I am building now to try along with my AdMech.

I played my first little game yesterday at around 730 points and ended up winning.

All my small stuff ended up getting obliterated as soon as it was in range of my space marine opponent and he got hosed as soon as he got within range of my 2 kastellans in protector while my neutron onager was hanging back and shooting at his captain etc.

My biggest issues I felt were.
* Very immobile
* I didn't have any units that could really advance to objectives and then effectively hold them very long

The Kastellans with their 18 shots each killed about 4 marines per turn devastating his two tactical squads of 5

Sisters of Battle is interesting. Dominion squad gets to move after everyone else sets up turn 1. So that's a 6" move. Use Celestine's act of faith they could move again or their own/your armies act of faith they could move again