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Suzuteo wrote:

Yoda79 wrote:
I agree its not so much the big numbers i have problems facing. Its the cc in great numbers we cant handle. And yes i agree with suzuteo when is the key question. If i get 2 rounds pure shooting usually its all over.

And yes i won vs orcs because Cawl tpd datasmith priests and usually every single model ( from commsar to commanders and datasmits)goes melee with canticles( pick reroll 1s on charge +1 next one prefered 4-5rounrs). Not to mention different positioning of my Robots and onagers. More protected more at the back.

Exactly. It's a cascading effect. If even one Boy survives your shooting and gets into CC with your Crawler or Kastelans, your effectiveness drops by a huge amount. You have to kill as many of them as possible before they get to you.

I would be careful about sending the Data-smith though. Especially if you haven't switched your Kastelans to Aegis beforehand; it's truly over if they get into CC while you're in Protector.

They can fight in Protector, so its not that big of a deal if he dies as long as it was a worthwhile trade to ensure they are freed up during your next shooting phase. If the Datasmith will make a difference, send him in. Between his Pistol and Fist, he can put down some damage.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Castellan Alaric wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:


Huh. Not sure I like those all that much. I use the Wargame Exclusive alternate heads myself.

Those heads are pretty nifty. Dig it.

Here they are painted up for my Metalica army, just for reference.

Those models look great man! What'd you convert the dominus out of? Lovely white you achieved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:

I think the big problem right now is that the armies to beat all use dominant strategies, and we're a very reactive army. AdMech and Knights actually have very good win rates. But win rates don't determine tournaments; win streaks do. There is a very good chance we will run into an army that will blow us out with fast, aggressive CC. For example, there's not much we can do to stop Green Tide from rolling over us. (Smart Ork players play dumb; advance 1500 points of Boyz at us without any concern for casualties. It's why I really don't think more than 4 Kastelans is a good idea. It's never a matter of whether or not you will get into CC for some armies, but when.)

I can attest to a Khorne themed chaos army getting into my lines and ruining my day. My shooting didn't take the rhinos full of berzerkers out early enough and when the hit, it was all over. I needed balistarii over kataphrons to core the tanks more reliably with lascannons versus plasma. Now the plasma took out the guys once they were out, but I only managed to stop 1/3 units from getting into combat and it was over...Then his lancer came in to back him up and well we know how that went lol

Thanks, Alaric! The Magos from FW without his abeyant with an added Vokite and stubber to be WYSIWYG. I used some spares from various AdMech kits and a Techmarine to do that.

And I love painting white - so Metalica was a natural choice for me.

Now i can say for sure. I have cheched most imperium combinations.

1) Solo ad mech wont be same competitive as imperium soup.
And personally i ws trying to make one as most imperium defence fluff novel battles are.

2) dragoons are superb. Wont leave without 1*2 or 1*3 unit. But
They are an option to protect my flank and if not usd as screener good for fast obj harass lock a vehicle far from my lines. No overwatch is a real disadvantage vs charge play first enemies.

3) Still the best by far option are astra militarum soldiers. Cheap mass . Can bubble enough to get to round two of shooting. Force enemy to kill them and they are a bad target for the enemy. Orders make them effective as was our vsnguard in 7th with their buffs. Move move move ,rapid 2 , and fall back and shoot prolly the most effective soldierd in all imperium. I dont like to use them or paint them still they are by far the best.
4) cheap hq are so valuable to create detachments with lots of cp s. Extremely importan.
5) their deep strike tempetus combintion i by far the best cheap deep strike option.

I will anticipate the codex. Looking for serious changes on the top matters we seen so far. Anti psych. Tranport cost effective units especially plethora of new cheap hq options. What would we need new stratagems if we use a spreahead all the time.
Some form of synergy with knights or i dont see them again in my d mech lists. And last but not least some melee defence or hq buff or relic or whatever. If we dont see cheaper units to make detachments we are forced yet again to be ad mech +++ other lists.
An astra militarum 100 plasma shots deep strike with 12+++ cp s will kill even a knight and a half alpha strike.

Ok to have one of the best dakka lines but its sad not to be able to field your army a different way. 2 hq is just dump. In a meta game of command points.

I see a lot talking about no need transport maybe scout move etc. Let me say this. Its not the speed our main issue. Dragoons move 10, stalkers 8 good enough. The fact they dont have run charge or resilience makes them ll good counter melee. Priests ,stalkers dragoon super counter mellee all of them. A transport will give options to either get more durability and thus reach your target or speed. Using both where need most . A transport will make a unit from counter to offensive.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

They can fight in Protector, so its not that big of a deal if he dies as long as it was a worthwhile trade to ensure they are freed up during your next shooting phase. If the Datasmith will make a difference, send him in. Between his Pistol and Fist, he can put down some damage.

The problem is that they cannot fall back. Kastelans that can't shoot because they have to body slam Boyz to death might as well not be there. That one turn of not shooting represents one handful of Orks that survived to waagh another day.

Suzuteo wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

They can fight in Protector, so its not that big of a deal if he dies as long as it was a worthwhile trade to ensure they are freed up during your next shooting phase. If the Datasmith will make a difference, send him in. Between his Pistol and Fist, he can put down some damage.

The problem is that they cannot fall back. Kastelans that can't shoot because they have to body slam Boyz to death might as well not be there. That one turn of not shooting represents one handful of Orks that survived to waagh another day.

Obviously. Not the point I was making though.

I'm looking forward to the codex. I've been on hold and not working on my army or playing. Having a non Mars FW actually mean something in game will be nice and I hope we don't NEED Cawl to be competitive. I really don't like named characters, but that's just me being stubborn, lol.

The knights excite me. I almost got back into 40K a few years ago when I saw a thread on a different game site that had a picture of one. Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine are probably the best games GW ever published, IMO, and knights remind me of those games.

I have seen more positive things about dragoons. I have three unopened. Should I get a fourth?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Obviously. Not the point I was making though.

Oh, I see now. My mistake. But yeah, keep those Kastelans out of CC as long as possible.

bortass wrote:
I'm looking forward to the codex. I've been on hold and not working on my army or playing. Having a non Mars FW actually mean something in game will be nice and I hope we don't NEED Cawl to be competitive. I really don't like named characters, but that's just me being stubborn, lol.

The knights excite me. I almost got back into 40K a few years ago when I saw a thread on a different game site that had a picture of one. Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine are probably the best games GW ever published, IMO, and knights remind me of those games.

I have seen more positive things about dragoons. I have three unopened. Should I get a fourth?

I think we will always have our shooting in a detachment with Cawl, and a second specialized detachment with a TPD. I think CP will be very valuable in the future.

Repairable Knights is a big deal. I can't think of a reason not to take one. They are already one of those units that if the opponent has no answer (and you can kill the ones they do have), you win the game just by default; the downside being that some armies are really good at killing Knights, though the horde meta right now makes those rarer. I personally am hoping we get Renegade Knight status and just have one build with any weapon configuration. If so, double Avenger plus Feet can easily replace Kastelans entirely.

Even now, I don't play AdMech without 2x2 Dragoons, but I would hold off on opening anything, just in case. If what people say is true, Dragoons will become more valuable as screening units because you can pay 1 CP to detonate them when they die, which is great for finishing off characters or hurting multiple minimum units.

When's the codex dropping?

Drahken_40k wrote:
When's the codex dropping?

I would like to know as well. I have seen two dates thus far for the pre-orders, and the Community page has been mum.

Suzuteo wrote:

Drahken_40k wrote:
When's the codex dropping?

I would like to know as well. I have seen two dates thus far for the pre-orders, and the Community page has been mum.

Probably around the 15th for preorders. My FLGS is always looking for preorder numbers at least a week before the new GW releases and they have said nothing yet. I expect to see him asking sometime next week.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Heh, we'll need a lot more than that. Our best army in Nova got 61st place :/
Which is why I've long since abandoned AdMech until one of these fixes them:
a) codex
b) december book
c) FAQ

Hey - that was me! I'm happy to share my experiences at NOVA for folks. I'm certainly no pro, but I went 4-4, and overall had an amazing time. While I'm very happy with how the AdMech performs in general, we're clearly not top tier. What we need more than anything to perform better based on my experience is cheaper troops. The top lists all generally had either conscripts or brimstone horrors to serve as barriers against aggressive armies/smite spam/deep strikers, etc. We don't have an efficient option for that purpose without turning to other codexes.

My list and match-ups below:

Match-ups:
Round 1: Pure aggressive and fast Harlequin's, with lots of fusion pistols. Managed to table them.
Round 2: Grey Knights/Space Wolves dreadnought/dread knight spam. Close game, but I lost on points.
Round 3: Eldar, Shadow Spectres with five Warp Hunters. Another very close game, but I managed to win.
Round 4: Tau, Ghost Keels, Commanders, and a Stormsurge. I made some mistakes with targeting priority, and had some terrible rolls. Close loss for me.
Round 5: Elysian Drop troops with six plasma command squads, 24 mortars, and 8 earth shaker carriages. This was a top-tier kind of list and I lost soundly.
Round 6: Another Imperial guard conscripts and artillery with a black templars storm raven. Not well optimized or well piloted by my opponent, and I had a solid win.
Round 7: Tzeencth Daemons. 50+ Brimstones, Magnus, 3 Daemon Princes and like 6 Exalted Flamers. I got tabled. This was the match I felt worst about, and was the only time I was tabled, or even had Cawl killed.
Round 8: Sisters of Battle. Standard sisters list with repressors, Celestine, and an Avenger Strike Fighter. Pretty easy victory for me.

Cawl was a star, his ability to advance and still hit on 3+ with his Solar Atomizer wrecked many vehicles and surprised opponents. I played him aggressively in turns 3+. My bubble wrap (vanguard, electro priests) died well, and bought time for my artillery to clean house (or they didn't and I lost). The Neutron Laser far outshone the Icarus Array - I'd almost take them exclusively. I often found myself changing my robots back to Aegis mode turn 3/4 so they could pressure things in the enemy's backfield, and secure objectives. The Ironstriders were consistent, and rarely drew much fire. Overall each unit served its purpose relatively well. Happy to hear others' thoughts too.

So far I agree on Icarus vs Neutron but I have not faced a heavy fly keyword army.

I too have found myself switching robots out of protector, I hate taking the data smith just for that

How are you guys kitting out the dragoons/ballistarii

BTW for me Electro Priests are badasses. I really want to run a larger unit they always get their 3+ save I wiped out a whole terminator squad because of the mortal wounds on charge and on their wound rolls

@Regis Terzieff-Godefroy
Congratulations on your finish. I mean, you didn't break top 8, but you were still the best AdMech at NOVA.

I agree that our troops are too expensive. That's why I would recommend bringing Dragoons instead; I replace all Skitarii and Electro-Priests with them.

I actually think you over-invested in your troops, and people just out-competed you on marginal efficiency. That's pretty much what a lot of Guard and Daemon armies are doing. =\

Cawl definitely is a beast, and I don't think people use him or the Crawlers as aggressively as they ought to. Remember, they can all move and shoot! It's only Kastelans that are rooted in place. (And if we get double-Avenger Mechanicum Knights, I will probably even drop my Kastelans entirely for a full 6 Crawlers.)

In terms of volume fire and the Mathhammer, Icarus has a lot of distinct advantages, especially in the horde metagame. The fact that it can shut out entire armies is also a big plus. Neutron definitely is our best anti-vehicle though.

Suzuteo wrote:
@Regis Terzieff-Godefroy
Congratulations on your finish. I mean, you didn't break top 8, but you were still the best AdMech at NOVA.

I agree that our troops are too expensive. That's why I would recommend bringing Dragoons instead; I replace all Skitarii and Electro-Priests with them.

I actually think you over-invested in your troops, and people just out-competed you on marginal efficiency. That's pretty much what a lot of Guard and Daemon armies are doing. =\

Cawl definitely is a beast, and I don't think people use him or the Crawlers as aggressively as they ought to. Remember, they can all move and shoot! It's only Kastelans that are rooted in place. (And if we get double-Avenger Mechanicum Knights, I will probably even drop my Kastelans entirely for a full 6 Crawlers.)

In terms of volume fire and the Mathhammer, Icarus has a lot of distinct advantages, especially in the horde metagame. The fact that it can shut out entire armies is also a big plus. Neutron definitely is our best anti-vehicle though.

Thanks! I think I'll have to disagree on the dragoons - I don't see how they can provide the same bubble wrap coverage as electro-priests or vanguard. I didn't have to worry much about deep-strikers because five electro-priests at maximum coherency can cover 15 inches, meaning I could cover my entire deployment zone in each match. Dragoons can't block the same amount of space as effectively. Furthermore, against the armies I faced, priests and vanguard are straight up more survivable than dragoons would be against all the fire they received except guard mortars (my bubble wrap died mainly to smite, fusion pistols, auto cannons, fusion blasters, etc) They also all provide a greater volume of anti-infantry fire than a dragoon would, which is something I needed.

On the balance though, I would have been better off with just taking 80-120 conscripts and having more HS units. I feel like the Icarus Array really only outperforms the Neutron Laser agaisnt T6 W6 eldar skimmers, and hordes. However, in the case of both of those targets, additional robots would be more effective.

The other two AM lists I saw both had knights, and tons of dune crawlers and ironstriders to the exclusion of any infantry.

Suzuteo wrote:
@Regis Terzieff-Godefroy
Congratulations on your finish. I mean, you didn't break top 8, but you were still the best AdMech at NOVA.

I agree that our troops are too expensive. That's why I would recommend bringing Dragoons instead; I replace all Skitarii and Electro-Priests with them.

I actually think you over-invested in your troops, and people just out-competed you on marginal efficiency. That's pretty much what a lot of Guard and Daemon armies are doing. =\

Cawl definitely is a beast, and I don't think people use him or the Crawlers as aggressively as they ought to. Remember, they can all move and shoot! It's only Kastelans that are rooted in place. (And if we get double-Avenger Mechanicum Knights, I will probably even drop my Kastelans entirely for a full 6 Crawlers.)

In terms of volume fire and the Mathhammer, Icarus has a lot of distinct advantages, especially in the horde metagame. The fact that it can shut out entire armies is also a big plus. Neutron definitely is our best anti-vehicle though.

Is it bad I find the icarus just annoying because it has so many ALMOST similar but not quite weapon profiles for rolling dice?

You think the Dragoons replace Electropriests? What are you killing with them? I've been playing vs Space Marine Crimsons fists and my 5 man electro priests have taken down at least 5+ marines in both games

I use an imperial ad mech army. Always testing to maximize my performance. I on!y use 5 rangers with 2 arq and omnispec.

I also use 40 infantry and elysian drops. Need cheap armies to perform my task bubble and deep strike while i dont loose my core.

I wanted pure mechanicum but its not top tier. Our robots and onagers with Cawl corp priests and dragoons are my core. But cant compete with mortars or deep strike plasma.

The most important reason cp s . And astra provide a brigade. And its effective and its full of cp s and i dont ruin my dakka mech line.

I can take 2 robots and 2 onagers for a knight. Or 4 onagers . 5+ reroll ones with canticle and repairs. Robot mortsl wounds and surv is beyond. Wont change them. Mortars and plasma onagers and robots seems to do the trick for me. Havent lost yet. Need a time to tour my list but seems just about right to deal with any case.

Regis Terzieff-Godefroy wrote:
Thanks! I think I'll have to disagree on the dragoons - I don't see how they can provide the same bubble wrap coverage as electro-priests or vanguard. I didn't have to worry much about deep-strikers because five electro-priests at maximum coherency can cover 15 inches, meaning I could cover my entire deployment zone in each match. Dragoons can't block the same amount of space as effectively. Furthermore, against the armies I faced, priests and vanguard are straight up more survivable than dragoons would be against all the fire they received except guard mortars (my bubble wrap died mainly to smite, fusion pistols, auto cannons, fusion blasters, etc) They also all provide a greater volume of anti-infantry fire than a dragoon would, which is something I needed.

On the balance though, I would have been better off with just taking 80-120 conscripts and having more HS units. I feel like the Icarus Array really only outperforms the Neutron Laser agaisnt T6 W6 eldar skimmers, and hordes. However, in the case of both of those targets, additional robots would be more effective.

The other two AM lists I saw both had knights, and tons of dune crawlers and ironstriders to the exclusion of any infantry.

You don't really have to cover your entire deployment zone though. In fact, you should pretty much always take a corner deployment, and given a unit of 2 Dragoons at max coherency covers a front 10.2362" each, two units creates a 47.4724" front. This creates a right triangle with two 33.57" sides that you can deploy the rest of your artillery in.

Where the Dragoons really shine though are the comparisons:
1) More durable than Skitarii for their cost. They will actually survive more than one round of shooting; plus, they make Plasma explode on 2s.
2) Unlike Skitarii, they are good in CC.
3) Much more mobile than Electro-Priests. This means they can easily intercept enemies and grab the objectives that your artillery clears.
4) Big bases to trap vehicles and make piling in more difficult in tight spaces.

Your opponent smote your Skitarii? I wouldn't mind that. Also, you point out the anti-infantry, but keep in mind that everybody is thinking the same thing, and that sort of stuff kills Skitarii really well. That being said, Skitarii are pretty bad for anti-infantry given the point to point comparison. I would rely on my Kastelans, Icarus Crawlers, and Crusader to handle hordes.

I personally don't think Kastelan spam is viable in general. It's too easy to get tied up in CC and get blown out. I never take more than 4, and I want to replace them with Knights. Again, fingers crossed for double Avenger--repairable and with Cawl, that would be insane.

Jaynen wrote:
Is it bad I find the icarus just annoying because it has so many ALMOST similar but not quite weapon profiles for rolling dice?

You think the Dragoons replace Electropriests? What are you killing with them? I've been playing vs Space Marine Crimsons fists and my 5 man electro priests have taken down at least 5+ marines in both games

It is annoying, but the diversity makes it good for TAC.

Dragoons aren't supposed to kill anything. They're bubble wrap that just so happens to be mobile. You have your artillery clear objectives and pile wounds, and your Dragoons grab the objectives and mop up. I mean, don't get me wrong, Electro-Priests are pretty strong if they get in range to CC, but the operative word here is "if." Without transports, you pretty much let your opponent dictate the terms of combat.

So do you take them as cheap as possible as dragoons or ballistarii?

So for 68 pts you get
10" 3+ WS/BS Str 5 t6 6wounds 3 attacks but they get incense cloud

But 100pts is your standard "dakkabox" Taurox Prime
14" 6+WS 3+ BS T6 10 wounds but puts out 31 STR 4 shots per turn

How much bigger are the dragoon bases? Does incense cloud make up for 4 wounds?

Jaynen wrote:
So do you take them as cheap as possible as dragoons or ballistarii?

So for 68 pts you get
10" 3+ WS/BS Str 5 t6 6wounds 3 attacks but they get incense cloud

But 100pts is your standard "dakkabox" Taurox Prime
14" 6+WS 3+ BS T6 10 wounds but puts out 31 STR 4 shots per turn

How much bigger are the dragoon bases? Does incense cloud make up for 4 wounds?

Cheap Dragoons are my go-to. Ballistarii seem superfluous.

We take Dragoons when we aren't going outside of faction. You want Imperial Soup, there are plenty of other options.

Jaynen wrote:
So do you take them as cheap as possible as dragoons or ballistarii?

So for 68 pts you get
10" 3+ WS/BS Str 5 t6 6wounds 3 attacks but they get incense cloud

But 100pts is your standard "dakkabox" Taurox Prime
14" 6+WS 3+ BS T6 10 wounds but puts out 31 STR 4 shots per turn

How much bigger are the dragoon bases? Does incense cloud make up for 4 wounds?

Vanilla Dragoons. You need the Taser Lances.

Incense Cloud is a 22% chance any unit with a rerolling plasma will kill itself, 33% chance without the reroll. (Any unit without a reroll has a guaranteed 33% chance to miss. It reduces the average dice roll to 2.67, which is a 31% increase in expected durability. -1 to hit is a big deal.)

Taurox Primes are not a substitute for Dragoons. The former is a shooting transport, the latter is CC cavalry.

Dragoons are the same size as Cawl. In addition to Incense Cloud and Shroudpsalm, keep in mind that Dragoons are 32 points cheaper than a Taurox Prime and don't have a damage table.

The only reason i take only 2 dragoons is they dont overwatch- shoot. In comparison to astra M troops. But still i use both front bodies and flank dragoons in a corner deploy.
Most important when i play aggresive. Meaning moving Cawl with my onagers dragoons utility shine

for reasons explained in other threads i think the dragoons are highly highly highly overrated. 3 attacks each on a 70 point model is not a very good CC unit. and with the taser goad they can't really shoot. So what are their role? really it's just to buffer for another round of shooting except they really don't do that because you've locked up the unit and can't shoot at it. you could fall back but that's just achieved nothing but letting the enemy advance for free (2d6" at that.)

a much better strategy is to take something that can not only survive in CC but hit back hard. OR alternatively take more dakka because IMO any use of points is better than something that isn't going to deal a lot of damage. For instance the balistarii would make a better choice as it would at least serve as anti tank for a turn or two, which might slow down the advance even more if they enemy is using transports. personally i would just take more kastelans or a unit of grey knights.

That whole post shows a genuine lack of understanding of what the Dragoons do. If you think their damage output matters, you are missing the point.

Not going outside faction, they offer something most other units in AdMech don't for screening. Durability and mobility. And believe it or not, they can actually do damage in combat. The goad is an afterthought, but it's high stregth makes wounding easy and it can randomly explode hits, which is just gravy.

Their large oval covers a large area. A unit of two can screen a wide area. They are entirely able to just walk out of combat, meaning we can shoot them next turn. That is precisely what we want, as our gunline is our bread-and-butter. I don't care if they do any damage, I just need to buy time.

Units like Priests and Blandguard can do similar, but are more fragile and less mobile. That is why everyone here has moved to Dragoons for screening, because in-faction they do it well. They also make a nice big bubble for keeping deep strikers back.

T6 6W with usually a 3+ save (shroudpsalm) and the -1 to-hit is fantastic for less than 70pt.

Ballistarii are not as useful mostly because they want to contribute to the gunline. This precludes them from being an effective screen unit. They are also about 15pt more each and compete for our usually limited FA slots. and we aren't hurting for long range antitank as we have the nasty Neutron laser to do the heavy lifting (or thermal cannons depending on the list).

If all you run is robots, you are not going to be able to stop from being tied up. You will be slow or immobile, meaning good luck with objectives not already in your deployment or getting table quarters or tactical objectives, etc. Something like Da Jumping Boyz will lock you up real easy. Lots of deep striking threats exist and outside of weird house rule metagames, it is something to account for in a list.

Kastelans are good, but tourney results showed that spamming them is not really viable. You must screen them either way, if you are running two or eight, and Dragoons do it well in-faction. Want to Branch out, grab conscripts. They are an easy no-brainer option.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


Their large oval covers a large area. A unit of two can screen a wide area. They are entirely able to just walk out of combat, meaning we can shoot them next turn. That is precisely what we want, as our gunline is our bread-and-butter. I don't care if they do any damage, I just need to buy time.

6 wounds sv 4+ at T 6.... even given the -1 to hit that's not a lot. there is a much better option and you can shoot in Melee with it: Bunkers. and they're only 30 points more expensive for T 8 SV 3+ and very nearly twice the wounds.

and regardless of what you think, damage is important. AP 0 is going to hurt the syndonians and the extra attacks on a 6+ is not something i'd call reliable. if it isn't doing damage it's dead weight and only forestalling the inevitable at best. If this is the standard wisdom being offered admech players i see why the army is lower tier these days.

you are right about conscripts though, as they do offer a good bit to your output of firepower. and are half decent on the overwatch, and provide way more wounds to get through (and not putting them all in one basket, seriously a few lascannon shots and your 140 points are gone. or melta guns which are deep strikable). I prefer grey knights for their versatility however, but conscripts are a good choice. another good choice is just basic guardsmen, but being limited to a max size of 10 per unit has it's problems.

Kastelans are good, but tourney results showed that spamming them is not really viable.[

i keep hearing this repeated and don't see the data, just a bunch of tournaments where no one used a list like this. do you have an alternative source?

If dragoons are dead weight give an otpion better in imperium. Need t be fast slot. Need to be -1 hit its the most important rule and still be a vehicle cheap t6 w6 no downgrade.

Maybe the deep strike fast unit but still offensve. That -1 on plasma is what makes me not have bodies bubble all over. Since you can move move move even your soldiers for speed.

As said they are low on damage sure pure anti blop but their job is to be a good anti deep strike and if no need that a fast screener to enemy trqnsport bla bla. For 68 points that -1 default 6 invu has saved me 40 poison shots and most alha strikes. While the cnscripts or whatever need to be more than 30 to be sure they will survive a good alpha - poison - anti mass. There is no army that wont have a ton of dice vs soldiers. But every good shot spend on those dragoons is vital. And there is none i v seen like them inside imperium.

Wont lie i understand they are not superb thats why me and suzuteo debated in many posts. I propose no more than 2-3 per army and inside one unit for less first bloods.
But wont leave my house with out those 2 i use. And i need the points but on the table those dragoons do the job.

Yoda79 wrote:
If dragoons are dead weight give an otpion better in imperium. Need t be fast slot. Need to be -1 hit its the most important rule and still be a vehicle cheap t6 w6 no downgrade.

Maybe the deep strike fast unit but still offensve. That -1 on plasma is what makes me not have bodies bubble all over. Since you can move move move even your soldiers for speed.

As said they are low on damage sure pure anti blop but their job is to be a good anti deep strike and if no need that a fast screener to enemy trqnsport bla bla. For 68 points that -1 default 6 invu has saved me 40 poison shots and most alha strikes. While the cnscripts or whatever need to be more than 30 to be sure they will survive a good alpha - poison - anti mass. There is no army that wont have a ton of dice vs soldiers. But every good shot spend on those dragoons is vital. And there is none i v seen like them inside imperium.

Wont lie i understand they are not superb thats why me and suzuteo debated in many posts. I propose no more than 2-3 per army and inside one unit for less first bloods.
But wont leave my house with out those 2 i use. And i need the points but on the table those dragoons do the job.

Units in imperium better than dragoons for screeing. In no particular order and certainly not an exhuastive list:

Consripts- lots of shots and a gak ton of wounds, also top tier right now.
Grey knights - great on offense defense, both shooting and melee, i can personally attest to using two 5 man squads in 1500 point games makes short work of MEQ
acolytes - only 8 points a piece but 3 wounds each.and they can take a wide variety of weapons
Scouts - versatile and useful units more wounds IIRC but not all in one basket
sisters of battle lower T but you aren't putting everything in one basket and a 3+ save, also a ton more shots and power weapon options
Tacticals- need i say more they are the the poster boys for 40k and seriously under estimated, did i mention ravenguard gives you your precious -1 to hit?
Infiltrators - a bit expensive and a little fragile but they deepstrike and with command rerolls can be fairly certain of getting into melee. upside is theyd on't get shot turn 1 if you don't start first and they can deep strike onto objectives ect
Guardsmen- depending on the list not as good as conscripts but a cheap way of getting another battalion in and better BS with better weapon options, I.e. not useless in shooting.

That's just a short list. Yeah 6 wounds is nice, it's on a single model. and melta guns exist. so do lascannons and overcharged plasma cannons. ... auto cannons, ect ect ect. oh and power fists

if you JUST want to make a win at all costs lists you NEED to ditch the dragoons for conscripts. conscripts are the huge factor for IG armies that are winning tournaments and easily available to the Mechanicus player. and you can even paint them up as tech guard like we did back in 5th.

The fact you listed Grey Knights as having good screening units means you're not to be taken seriously.


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Like, I literally stopped reading the list after that.


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Okay I decided to read the list. Tactical Marines and Grey Knights and Sisters? You have to be trolling.


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Also Acolytes don't have 3 wounds.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The fact you listed Grey Knights as having good screening units means you're not to be taken seriously.


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Like, I literally stopped reading the list after that.

oh really because i've got several games with this list and its currently undefeated:

Grey knights patrol
Grand master (soul spear, first to the fray, sanctuary)
7 Grey knight terminators (swords, no upgrades, sanctuary)
6 Grey knight terminators (swords no upgrades, sanctuary)

Mechanicus spear head
TPD
Onager (neutron laser)
Onager (neutron laser)
2x Kastelans (3x phosphor blasters each)
Datasmith

Literally tabled a dark angels player by turn three last night. Decisive blow was dealt by the datasmith in CC

Also Acolytes don't have 3 wounds.

Unless it's a typo i'm reading the book right now and yes they do.

Also Acolytes don't have 3 wounds.

Unless it's a typo i'm reading the book right now and yes they do.

They had, but it was errated